Suicide

Widdershins

Just want to revisit my question. Any advice on what to do if you think someone's dangerously suicidal or having a dangerous mental breakdown? Ring gardai? Or what?

pilly

Widdershins wrote: »

Just want to revisit my question. Any advice on what to do if you think someone's dangerously suicidal or having a dangerous mental breakdown? Ring gardai? Or what?

It very much depends on whether they've ever connected with mental health services before or not. If they have it's easier because they will have a mental health nurse that you can contact and tell them that the person is currently very unwell and they will reach out.

If they haven't previously had any connection with mental health services then it's a lot more difficult. Unless they are doing something currently that appears dangerous to themselves or others there's very little you can do.

Paully D

seamus wrote: »

Chester Bennington would be a high-profile example of someone who found himself locked into the death spiral after the suicide of a close friend, and just couldn't pull himself out of it again.

This picture was taken just days before he died. So sad:

https://twitter.com/talindab/status/905707295442481152

Widdershins

pilly wrote: »

It very much depends on whether they've ever connected with mental health services before or not. If they have it's easier because they will have a mental health nurse that you can contact and tell them that the person is currently very unwell and they will reach out.

If they haven't previously had any connection with mental health services then it's a lot more difficult. Unless they are doing something currently that appears dangerous to themselves or others there's very little you can do.

Thinking of someone with no previous interaction with mental health professionals. If they were threatening to do things to themself or others. Nobody wants to get someone locked up so to speak.

tomwaterford

Widdershins wrote: »

Thinking of someone with no previous interaction with mental health professionals. If they were threatening to do things to themself or others. Nobody wants to get someone locked up so to speak.

If there threatening to harm others,call the gaurds on them?

Widdershins

tomwaterford wrote: »

If there threatening to harm others,call the gaurds on them?

Yeah, surprisingly hard thing to do.

tomwaterford

Widdershins wrote: »

Yeah, surprisingly hard thing to do.

Call 999


If you say someone is threatening x,y and z and they don't act,and in the unlikely event of something happening they'll be in trouble

Grab All Association

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Tbf there are things like benzos which take the anxiety off a bit in bad situations and ways to intervene when someone is feeling really awful. But it's not something you can do for someone when they're not forthcoming about their problems and their mind is such a chaotic fog that ending their lives seems the best choice available.

Jesus says no mentality still in our health service to prescribing these kind of drugs. Drugs like these are a very cheap quick fix and do stop people going off and killing themselves.

Widdershins

tomwaterford wrote: »

Call 999


If you say someone is threatening x,y and z and they don't act,and in the unlikely event of something happening they'll be in trouble

No I mean it's easy to actually do, just a phone call, but its hard to know what problems you could cause them and if they'd actually get help and be treated properly. Easier to hope they'll go back to normal somehow.

pilly

Widdershins wrote: »

No I mean it's easy to actually do, just a phone call, but its hard to know what problems you could cause them and if they'd actually get help and be treated properly. Easier to hope they'll go back to normal somehow.

Police are trained in these issues, they don't simply throw people in jail nowadays for these things. They usually bring them to a physicatric unit.

retro:electro

sashafierce wrote: »

What I find to bring a massive sadness to people is social media.
I have a decent job, nice bit of money saved, nice car, holiday numerous times a year, long term relationship and I still find myself comparing myself to others on social media and its seriously damaging. I know its not all real and like everyone we only put our best foot out there but facebook is a platform to brag and show how good your life is even when its not and that can bring people seriously down.

I'd say this very thing is behind a lot of young people not being here anymore. More so than we could ever believe.

Dravokivich

Widdershins wrote: »

No I mean it's easy to actually do, just a phone call, but its hard to know what problems you could cause them and if they'd actually get help and be treated properly. Easier to hope they'll go back to normal somehow.

I've had to make such a phone call. The Gardaí do act on it. They've the powers to make a determination if someone is potentially a risk to themselves or others and bring them to be assessed.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

It's a horrible spot to be in, Widdershins, but making the phonecall is probably your least worst option.

Have they disclosed to you how they're feeling or have you put it together yourself?

Edit: unfortunately I say this in all seriousness but it's late on Friday afternoon, you may have to make several phonecalls. Ask for the name of everyone you talk to, write the name and what time you made the call down, if you're patched through and bounced around be clear on what office/department/gate keeper/quango you're speaking to.

Widdershins

Bit of both....they used to make veiled threats now they're not so veiled ..can't imagine they'd be happy about being taken to hospital either, and potentially losing work, but obviously it's for their own good. Sooner or later they'll do something and there won't be a choice about it anyway.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

Stonedpilot

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Religion or God has no bearing on whether a person commits suicide. I find that statement ridiculous. People that commit suicide usually have depression or some type of mental illness. Last time I checked God or praying is not a known cure for these illnesses. If it was everybody would just pray instead of going to doctors and taking medication. Very naive statement to make in my opinion.

Having worked in a mental health organisation I know God will do things for us we can't do for ourselves. Helped me when I was depressed and several people who told me they were suicidal God helped them they said.

God saved them from suicide. Just cos you have a problem with God doesnt matter they are alive and safe now.

Naive or not I know from experience speaking to real people in rotten situations (not opinion) God almighty helps people who really want help. This is from speaking to people whom have jumped in rivers,taken hundreds of pills etc.

I never said anything on medication, you did.

Stonedpilot

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Having worked in a mental health organisation I know God will do things for us we can't do for ourselves. Helped me when I was depressed and several people who told me they were suicidal God helped them they said.

God saved them from suicide. Just cos you have a problem with God doesnt matter they are alive and safe now.

Naive or not I know from experience speaking to real people in rotten situations (not opinion) God almighty helps people who really want help. This is from speaking to people whom have jumped in rivers,taken hundreds of pills etc.

I never said anything on medication, you did.

The thing about God is that a person is required to fully believe in his existence in order to get any comfort or support from that belief. Having something to hold on to during painful times is I think really important when it comes to recovery and feeling better. For some people it's their faith and for others it may be the wilds of nature.

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

The thing about God is that a person is required to fully believe in his existence in order to get any comfort or support from that belief. Having something to hold on to during painful times is I think really important when it comes to recovery and feeling better. For some people it's their faith and for others it may be the wilds of nature.

It's on option tough. Lot's of people are quick to write it off and if a young person says they get comfort out of there faith people have a habit of rolling their eyes at them!

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It's on option tough. Lot's of people are quick to write it off and if a young person says they get comfort out of there faith people have a habit of rolling their eyes at them!

Oh it is absolutely an option and I would never judge another person for their beliefs. I just don't think it's something everyone can access in themselves. You either believe or you don't.

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh it is absolutely an option and I would never judge another person for their beliefs. I just don't think it's something everyone can access in themselves. You either believe or you don't.

I totally agree with. I have heard of people getting in touch with religion when they had no contact with religion for years but they were desperate and gave it ago and it worked for them. I just find some people dismiss everything to do with religion because society basically tells them to.

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I totally agree with. I have heard of people getting in touch with religion when they had no contact with religion for years but they were desperate and gave it ago and it worked for them. I just find some people dismiss everything to do with religion because society basically tells them to.

That's right. It isn't the "cool" thing to believe in God and go to mass. Personally I don't believe in any religion but I feel like it's not a choice. I simply can't force myself to have faith. If others can find comfort in it then good for them.

buzzinfly83

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh it is absolutely an option and I would never judge another person for their beliefs. I just don't think it's something everyone can access in themselves. You either believe or you don't.

You are spot on.

buzzinfly83

Think this thread has taken a strange turn. It's like something from the religious forum. I have no problem with people believing in any faith especially if it helps them but to promote it to others that are not religious as a means to prevent suicide is bad advice. Just because something works for you it will not help a non relgious person. We are talking about suicide not religion so let people find their own path to health.

freshpopcorn

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Think this thread has taken a strange turn. It's like something from the religious forum. I have no problem with people believing in any faith especially if it helps them but to promote it to others that are not religious as a means to prevent suicide is bad advice. Just because something works for you it will not help a non relgious person. We are talking about suicide not religion so let people find their own path to health.

I know people who weren't a bit relgious. They suffered from mental health issues/addictions/etc. They went to doctors/A&E/took tablets/therapy/altenative therapy and nothing worked for them. They gave religion ago and it helped them. Nobody is saying run to the church if you have mental health issues but it can help some people.

buzzinfly83

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know people who weren't a bit relgious. They suffered from mental health issues/addictions/etc. They went to doctors/A&E/took tablets/therapy/altenative therapy and nothing worked for them. They gave religion ago and it helped them. Nobody is saying run to the church if you have mental health issues but it can help some people.

If you read my posts I have said that I think it's great if religion has helped anybody get through dark times. I am not trying to argue about the merits of religion/praying. All I'm trying to say is if a non religious person becomes suicidal that telling him/her to pray maybe of little comfort to them. For those who are religious then it's great they have something to turn to. Maybe for some people it may be sport or joining a club that helps. Maybe for somebody else it's a hospital admission or medication. I think it's more about finding your own niche and hopefully that works for you.

TheZenMonkey

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

All I'm trying to say is if a non religious person becomes suicidal that telling him/her to pray maybe of little comfort to them.

Absolutely right. Any more than it would be useful to a religious person contemplating suicide if you told them to stop going to church. If you don't know someone's religious beliefs, please do not suggest prayer or church or religion if they are suicidal. It really comes across like you are blowing off their feelings. I have experience in suicide prevention and I am also not religious, so this is a very important point to me.

The best thing you can say is "Tell me more about how you feel." Because I promise that person has had plenty of people telling them NOT to talk or think about it and that's about the worst thing you can tell them. Let them tell you about their specific situation, and during the conversation, you can ask "are you religious?" as a way to see whether suggesting prayer or talking to their spiritual leader might be a good suggestion. Of course it's wonderful if the person does find comfort that way and I always support that if it helps them. But it's never, ever, the first thing I'd say to anyone if I didn't know for sure that they believed in god/gods.

Another reason suggesting prayer right away is a bad idea is because some people become suicidal due to their experiences with religion or a particular church. For example, say the person is gay but their family and church are very anti-LGBTQ. It would be an insult to that person to suggest they turn to religion. Just be a friend and listen to them.

TheZenMonkey

Widdershins wrote: »

Thinking of someone with no previous interaction with mental health professionals. If they were threatening to do things to themself or others. Nobody wants to get someone locked up so to speak.

No, but you'd feel much worse if that person hurt or killed himself or someone else. It's heartbreaking to put someone in the position of potentially being hospitalized, but if they are truly at risk, then there's something really wrong and they do need that help. Think of it like they have pneumonia. If they don't go to the hospital, they are going to get worse and possibly die.

It's important to know whether the person is just ranting or is very serious. Because you definitely don't want to call the garda on someone who's merely angry or depressed enough to be talking about suicide. (Talking about it should actually be encouraged!) If possible, find out the following things: do they have a plan for how they are going to do whatever they are going to do? If so, do they have the things they need to carry that plan out? And if so, are they going to do it within the next 24 hours? If the answer to all of these is "yes," there is definitely imminent risk and the person should either be convinced to seek help or, if that won't work, emergency services are warranted.

I hope this helps and I apologize for the double post, but I really wanted to answer this.

Widdershins

TheZenMonkey wrote: »

No, but you'd feel much worse if that person hurt or killed himself or someone else. It's heartbreaking to put someone in the position of potentially being hospitalized, but if they are truly at risk, then there's something really wrong and they do need that help. Think of it like they have pneumonia. If they don't go to the hospital, they are going to get worse and possibly die.

It's important to know whether the person is just ranting or is very serious. Because you definitely don't want to call the garda on someone who's merely angry or depressed enough to be talking about suicide. (Talking about it should actually be encouraged!) If possible, find out the following things: do they have a plan for how they are going to do whatever they are going to do? If so, do they have the things they need to carry that plan out? And if so, are they going to do it within the next 24 hours? If the answer to all of these is "yes," there is definitely imminent risk and the person should either be convinced to seek help or, if that won't work, emergency services are warranted.

I hope this helps and I apologize for the double post, but I really wanted to answer this.

That helped me get things straight in my head for future reference..thank you

fryup

dense wrote: »

Its when people are at the end of their tether that they often pray. It will be helpful for some not others. If I was to push it, I'd guess suicide would be more difficult to carry out for someone who "believes". The belief/faith might carry them through the bad times better. You use whatever you can.

hey Dense....why do call yourself Dense?

seems like something a person with low self esteem would do to give themselves a username like that

do you need to talk to someone?

AnneFrank

If only

mr.anonymous

The Netflix documentary 'The Mask You Live In' seems apropos to this thread.

So many people live a life of quiet desperation and loneliness while struggling to maintain a veneer for the outside world. Relationships in which we can open up vulnerably and be truly understood seem rare.

Stonedpilot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's right. It isn't the "cool" thing to believe in God and go to mass. Personally I don't believe in any religion but I feel like it's not a choice. I simply can't force myself to have faith. If others can find comfort in it then good for them.

Going to mass has nothing to do with God. Total myth.

God helps but if anything prevents someone from killing themselves do it!.

Stonedpilot

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Going to mass has nothing to do with God. Total myth.

God helps but if anything prevents someone from killing themselves do it!.

I'm sure some people show their faith and belief in God by going to mass. It certainly wouldn't be a myth for them.

buzzinfly83

TheZenMonkey wrote: »

Absolutely right. Any more than it would be useful to a religious person contemplating suicide if you told them to stop going to church. If you don't know someone's religious beliefs, please do not suggest prayer or church or religion if they are suicidal. It really comes across like you are blowing off their feelings. I have experience in suicide prevention and I am also not religious, so this is a very important point to me.

The best thing you can say is "Tell me more about how you feel." Because I promise that person has had plenty of people telling them NOT to talk or think about it and that's about the worst thing you can tell them. Let them tell you about their specific situation, and during the conversation, you can ask "are you religious?" as a way to see whether suggesting prayer or talking to their spiritual leader might be a good suggestion. Of course it's wonderful if the person does find comfort that way and I always support that if it helps them. But it's never, ever, the first thing I'd say to anyone if I didn't know for sure that they believed in god/gods.

Another reason suggesting prayer right away is a bad idea is because some people become suicidal due to their experiences with religion or a particular church. For example, say the person is gay but their family and church are very anti-LGBTQ. It would be an insult to that person to suggest they turn to religion. Just be a friend and listen to them.

Well said.

JupiterKid

The amount of times I've heard "well, he seemed so happy, it's shocking that he killed himself" are many. People may post happy family pics up on Facebook but be tormented inside.

newdriverlad

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Think this thread has taken a strange turn. It's like something from the religious forum. I have no problem with people believing in any faith especially if it helps them but to promote it to others that are not religious as a means to prevent suicide is bad advice. Just because something works for you it will not help a non relgious person. We are talking about suicide not religion so let people find their own path to health.

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

If you read my posts I have said that I think it's great if religion has helped anybody get through dark times. I am not trying to argue about the merits of religion/praying. All I'm trying to say is if a non religious person becomes suicidal that telling him/her to pray maybe of little comfort to them. For those who are religious then it's great they have something to turn to. Maybe for some people it may be sport or joining a club that helps. Maybe for somebody else it's a hospital admission or medication. I think it's more about finding your own niche and hopefully that works for you.

I actually find you very rude and disrespectful. I myself and others have spoke about the way we got help from the church when we suffered from mental illness but because it involves the church the thread takes a strange turn.

buzzinfly83

newdriverlad wrote: »

I actually find you very rude and disrespectful. I myself and others have spoke about the way we got help from the church when we suffered from mental illness but because it involves the church the thread takes a strange turn.

I find u very rude when you are using the topic of suicide to push a religious agenda.

Stonedpilot

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sure some people show their faith and belief in God by going to mass. It certainly wouldn't be a myth for them.

Read the Bible pal. God resides in all of us and Jesus saves through faith and repentance.
Mass while nice has literally nothing to do wirh salvation or a relationship with God. Purely symbolic.

newdriverlad

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

I find u very rude when you are using the topic of suicide to push a religious agenda.

I said I tried various methods I never said anything was strange or weird I'd encourage everybody to try anything that they thought might help. I would never say a method was strange tough even if I didn't agree with it.
I am not pushing a religious agenda I'm just saying to open to different thing and give things ago.

buzzinfly83

newdriverlad wrote: »

I actually find you very rude and disrespectful. I myself and others have spoke about the way we got help from the church when we suffered from mental illness but because it involves the church the thread takes a strange turn.

Can I ask you a question. What if a gay person or LGBT person is suicidal. Should they pray or go to church when they are frowned upon in the eyes of the church.

newdriverlad

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Can I ask you a question. What if a gay person or LGBT person is suicidal. Should they pray or go to church when they are frowned upon in the eyes of the church.

I am gay(Was unsure in the past), I always felt welcomed, safe and happy in my local catholic church.

buzzinfly83

newdriverlad wrote: »

I am gay(Was unsure in the past), I always felt welcomed, safe and happy in my local catholic church.

Hate to break it to you but the the Catholic church is anti gay regardless of how nice your church is to you. What your saying is a complete contradiction.

Stonedpilot

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Read the Bible pal. God resides in all of us and Jesus saves through faith and repentance.
Mass while nice has literally nothing to do wirh salvation or a relationship with God. Purely symbolic.

I'm sure people interpret the bible in their own way, mate. Again it is your belief that Jesus resides in us. That's ok but it's not every other persons belief and that's ok too.

I can understand how some people can use their faith to get through hard times but it's not for everyone.

Mountainsandh

I think reporting on suicide here needs to change, urgently.
The unspoken circumstances, the unacknowledged, the air of mystery surrounding people's suicides, and then the format of articles that are more eulogies than reports, they make it easier to identify to the person for young people especially I think.
We all have a hidden dimension, hidden thoughts, and decisions and actions that we think we can accomplish in our own hidden ways, and emphasizing that in an article about someone's death by suicide is emphasizing the things we have in common.

Blunt, to the point and informative reporting might seem heartless and less mindful of the family, but imo it would help dissociate the reader from the person who committed suicide.
For illustrative purposes, here's an article (in French) about a young (10 years old) girl who committed suicide this week in France. http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/2131055-20170912-rouen-fillette-10-ans-retrouvee-morte-these-suicide-privilegiee

I think less people would be influenced by this type of report to do the same thing.

That tiptoeing about the phrase "to commit" suicide is annoying me too. I think it's nearly posthumously insulting actually to the person who did it. Suicide didn't just happen like an accident, they decided, they committed it, without any hint of criminality about it, just a decision they made.

newdriverlad

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

Hate to break it to you but the the Catholic church is anti gay regardless of how nice your church is to you. What your saying is a complete contradiction.

Well it works for me now and it makes me happy.
I never had any negative experience in the Catholic Church. They bible says a lot of things is wrong but people don't seem to focus on homosexuality.
We're not going to agree on this matter!

buzzinfly83

newdriverlad wrote: »

Well it works for me now and it makes me happy.
I never had any negative experience in the Catholic Church. They bible says a lot of things is wrong but people don't seem to focus on homosexuality.
We're not going to agree on this matter!

The church does not allow gay people to get married. They don't allow female priests. I certainly would not turn to them if I was suicidal.

Mountainsandh

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure people interpret the bible in their own way, mate. Again it is your belief that Jesus resides in us. That's ok but it's not every other persons belief and that's ok too.

I can understand how some people can use their faith to get through hard times but it's not for everyone.

My father was bipolar and very depressed most of his adult life. He fought long and hard, but he lost.
He often said he wished he had faith, because maybe that would have saved him (he was quite vocal about his intentions long before he committed suicide).

I wish he'd managed to make himself have faith, he could have been an evangelist as far as I'm concerned, if that could have saved him. But depression, although it seems like it changes the person, doesn't take the person away all the same, and he just couldn't believe.

newdriverlad

buzzinfly83 wrote: »

The church does not allow gay people to get married. They don't allow female priests. I certainly would not turn to them if I was suicidal.

That's great for you. I wouldn't have being overly religious I would have went to mass as a child but stopped as a teenager.
I was tired I tried loads of things. If you told me that if I had walking up and down my local town with a footstool on my head would have help. I'd have given it a go. Somebody said give the church ago and I found it helped me.It wouldn't have being on my list.(I was open to any reasonable ideaa)
Sometimes I go a lot or leave it go awhile, sometimes I pray, sometime I don't, sometimes I just sit there, have a chat. You don't go there just to say a load of prayers.
I am not saying run off to your local church in the morning instead of your GP/councillor but it is an option for people.

dense

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My father was bipolar and very depressed most of his adult life. He fought long and hard, but he lost.
He often said he wished he had faith, because maybe that would have saved him (he was quite vocal about his intentions long before he committed suicide).

I wish he'd managed to make himself have faith, he could have been an evangelist as far as I'm concerned, if that could have saved him. But depression, although it seems like it changes the person, doesn't take the person away all the same, and he just couldn't believe.

What age were you? Do you suffer bipolar too?
How did you react? Do you respect or reject his action?
Sorry for all the blunt questions.
You sound like you remember him with affection.

Mountainsandh

Mountainsandh wrote: »

My father was bipolar and very depressed most of his adult life. He fought long and hard, but he lost.
He often said he wished he had faith, because maybe that would have saved him (he was quite vocal about his intentions long before he committed suicide).

I wish he'd managed to make himself have faith, he could have been an evangelist as far as I'm concerned, if that could have saved him. But depression, although it seems like it changes the person, doesn't take the person away all the same, and he just couldn't believe.

I'm sorry Mountains and for all on this thread who have been impacted upon by suicide.