Suicide

anon90

look we all have problems in life killing your self isnt going to fix anything because the family have to live with that everyday they will be a permanent hole in the family structure it is a problem i no i was there dint do i tho dint have the strength

anon90

Just a few word's of engorgement if your having a low time in your life we are here for you you are not alone

Hammer89

One of the most tragic aspects of that 11-year-old's suicide, apart from her age obviously, is the fact that she was already a beautiful little girl and would've grown up into a very attractive woman, and she didn't know. The whole thing is really sad.

I don't blame the parents in any way but you have to imagine that Instagram might've played a role in how her darkness blossomed. Fully grown men and women suffer from feeling of inadequacy and worthlessness on social media - it has to be a million times worse and more confusing for a child. It's a big, big wake-up call.

djPSB

I do think there has been to much focus on recent years on Suicide Awareness as opposed to Mental Health Awareness.

Suicide has received so much publicity that it now is an option that people would almost consider normal when going through tough times.

The message on Suicide has also been lost somewhat. People need to be aware and remember that it is a very selfish option. You are not only taking your own life. You are ruining the lives of your friends and family too.

djPSB

On a separate note. Suicide Awareness should not be a thing. It should be Mental Health Awareness. So that when someone is feeling down or unwell, they are aware of the options or steps to take to help them.

Alot is also made of our inadequate mental health services which to a point is fair. But the services here are also a lot better than most countries.

We have created an unrealistic expectation of life here. Where you should own 3 houses, nice car, few holidays etc. Mindset change needed and people need to take responsibility for wrapping themselves in debt. There's people in 2nd world countries who have far far less than us but Suicide rates are lower. Our expectations and demands have just spiralled to an unrealistic level.

pilly

djPSB wrote: »

On a separate note. Suicide Awareness should not be a thing. It should be Mental Health Awareness. So that when someone is feeling down or unwell, they are aware of the options or steps to take to help them.

Alot is also made of our inadequate mental health services which to a point is fair. But the services here are also a lot better than most countries.

We have created an unrealistic expectation of life here. Where you should own 3 houses, nice car, few holidays etc. Mindset change needed and people need to take responsibility for wrapping themselves in debt. There's people in 2nd world countries who have far far less than us but Suicide rates are lower. Our expectations and demands have just spiralled to an unrealistic level.

Slight exaggeration there, 3 houses? People only want a roof over their heads these days.

freshpopcorn

pilly wrote: »

Slight exaggeration there, 3 houses? People only want a roof over their heads these days.

I do think people put massive pressures on themselves with houses/kitchens/holidays/etc compared to the past. Three houses is an exaggeration but people's standards are a lot higher now in my experience!

The Black Oil

A very sad case, hard to find any words.

djPSB wrote: »

Alot is also made of our inadequate mental health services which to a point is fair. But the services here are also a lot better than most countries.

There are psychiatry jobs, including for posts relating to children and adolescents (CAMHS), on publicjobs.ie - some as far back as March 2016, from Wexford to Donegal. Whether they're not attracting the right people, conditions are not great, or there are other systemic issues, I don't know. If all of those roles were filled it would help.

dd972

Can I come too... wrote: »

“Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.” David L. Conroy

Pretty much how I'd imagine it, I do wonder why some people do it when others bear extreme circumstances possibly lasting a lifetime and don't do it, maybe there's some sort of 'suicide gene' or whatever, but I'm pretty convinced that people who go through with it are in an unimaginably dark place that pretty much nudges them through the trapdoor so to speak. A place I wouldn't wish on people and hope I never see.

pilly

dd972 wrote:

Pretty much how I'd imagine it, I do wonder why some people do it when others bear extreme circumstances possibly lasting a lifetime and don't do it, maybe there's some sort of 'suicide gene' or whatever, but I'm pretty convinced that people who go through with it are in an unimaginably dark place that pretty much nudges them through the trapdoor so to speak. A place I wouldn't wish on people and hope I never see.

Clinical depression paired with dire circumstances is often the lethal combination. Very hard to come out of that without 24/7 care.

djPSB

pilly wrote: »

Clinical depression paired with dire circumstances is often the lethal combination. Very hard to come out of that without 24/7 care.

I would think that not all who commit suicide are clinically depressed. Some are just unhappy or going through very tough personal circumstances.

Professor Moriarty

djPSB wrote: »

I would think that not all who commit suicide are clinically depressed. Some are just unhappy or going through very tough personal circumstances.

Yes. Plus impulsivity often combined with alcohol and/or drugs.

the_syco

The National Suicide Research Foundation’s Annual Report shows that overall, 375 males and 76 females had died by suicide in 2015.

I'll take that figure with a pinch of salt, as they don't consider things such as "single car accident on straight road causing fatality" as suicide, among other things. I'd say the figure is at least twice.

holyhead

The issue of suicide is so complex. The reasons for it so varied. It is really difficult to know where to start making inroads into what is an epidemic in Ireland. I would take official suicide figures with a pinch of salt. It is tragic to think that someone would find themselves in a place where they don't see life as worth living.

The awful irony about suicide is where there is life there is hope.

Really tragic stories in this Irish Times article from the past week.

‘Why are young mothers taking their own lives?’

Tigger

The amount of men who die at 4am by driving into a wall and are counted as drunknor speeding instead of suicide is a real issue

refusetolose

i know a girl that suicided last week, 5 kids she had

r93kaey5p2izun

Deleted User wrote: »

Really tragic stories in this Irish Times article from the past week.

‘Why are young mothers taking their own lives?’

Yes I knew some of them. Another one in the last week again. Lucan also seems to be affected. A lot of children left with no parent in their lives.

This past year 13 people I know have died by suicide (nobody very close). Only one was a man. Five were teachers, though only one connected to this area (Clondalkin) - it's another new trend I have noticed and wonder at the official stats. I have always experienced (no stats just my own observations) that the suicide rate here was more evenly split male to female than the norm, but it seems to have swung further in the past while.

castletownman

It's the '****in' hell' factor that gets me, and one that I will always fail to comprehend. I am coming back off my godfather and honoury uncle taking his own life after freely admitting he was heartbroken after unexpectedly burying his brother (and my uncle through marriage) two weeks previously. He was being monitered by those around him as a result.

Incidentally, he was at the funeral of his sister in law the day before and was in good spirits. You just never know. My last memory is making him laugh so I will always have that.

dense

dd972 wrote: »

Pretty much how I'd imagine it, I do wonder why some people do it when others bear extreme circumstances possibly lasting a lifetime and don't do it, maybe there's some sort of 'suicide gene' or whatever, but I'm pretty convinced that people who go through with it are in an unimaginably dark place that pretty much nudges them through the trapdoor so to speak. A place I wouldn't wish on people and hope I never see.

IMO it comes down to having the means or the methods or materials at hand to do it to one's satisfaction, relatively fast and painless.



I don't know the figures but I am guessing in rural areas legally held firearms are popular, at least anecdotally that seems to be the case.



If there was a suicide pill on the bedside locker of a terminally ill patient's locker, I would expect a certain number to avail of it.
And perhaps there should be one there, to be in control of one's life and death.

Happyilylost

First problem: suicide is still anecdotal. Despite all the efforts of so many people, groups and organisations this issue is still brushed under the carpet by too many family's that don't want it said they lost someone to suicide. I live in rural Galway. Recently someone who died from suicide was said died from a bleed from the brain. His family didn't want it known what happens. So here is the two anecdotes.

That first man that died was someone I was close too. He suffered depression. He was in dark places many parts of his life. Keeping him on the straight and narrow was a difficult and heart breaking task. His darkness devoured everyone around him. Everyone fought. No more than he did. Everyone lost eventually.

Second story: walking home from Salthill. We've a lovely walk out to mutton island. Long straight road. Water both sides. Saw a flash that looked like a phone. Way out in the distance. (Anyone from Galway would know what I seen.) Flagged a taxi put my girlfriend in it. Walk out to mutton island. Met a fella. "Howya" "howya" "out for a walk?" (He asked me) "ah sure something brought me out here"

Anyway maybe he was sussing my story and I was sussing his. We chatted for a bit. Eventually I said I'm leaving now. Here is my number. I've no idea what you're doing here. If you're thinking the worst text me in twelve hours meet me back here and I'll throw you off myself. (Bit of a chuckle between us) I left. Got a message "all good" at 9.52a.m the following morning.

Point of this. Maybe none. Maybe I'm wrong. But I feel we as a society are losing too many of the second type of story. All the clubs in Galway are in the centre. Most students cross a bridge to get home. We've lost too many young people. Last two years have been terrible.

Airyfairy12

Mental health services in Ireland are an absolute, utter disgrace. For a start, pretty much anyone can register themselves as a counselor with no qualifications, its an unregulated profession which means unqualified or ill experienced counselors are setting up practices and haven't a clue what theyre doing, they cause more harm than good.
Trained counselors are only good for helping people with short term depression caused by sudden life events and mild anxiety, theyre not equipped to treat people with long term depression or mental illness.
Psychotherapists are the only professionals who should be dealing with people who have mental illness, problem is they charge way beyond what any low or medium waged earner can afford.
If you have a medical card and your GP refers you to a psychotherapist youre put on a 6+ month waiting list and only entitled to 6 - 8 weeks of therapy, after your sessions are complete if you need more therapy youre told you can request another referral in 6 months.
6 weeks of therapy is not long enough for people suffering with mental health problems.

Depressed people and people with mental illness are continuously told to 'talk to someone' .. talk to who? The helplines are a total joke, theyre only there to show face. If anyone even answers the phone youre met a volunteer who has no training in treating mental illness or theyre a student counselor with no experience. They repeat your sentences back to you and ask if you have anybody to talk to. Allot of people genuinely don't have anyone whose willing to listen or help out. People say they care but when it comes down to it they wont give the time of day. Sad but true and reality for allot of people.

People get very uncomfortable around any mention of mental disorders, ive learned to hold in any anxious thoughts or behaviors I have around people I know because they will judge me for it as they have done repeatedly in the past. The same people that run darkness into light marathons and share mental health awareness posts on social media are often the same people to turn their backs and get irritated by anyone who openly talks to them or others about their mental illness. There is no where to turn for most people.

Heres an article which outlines the state of the mental health services which resulted in the death of a young man in 2015. Note the appalling treatment of the parents and patient by medical staff.

https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2016/05/documenting-a-suicide/

"Happyilylost

"Happyilylost wrote: »

beautiful post on a terrible subject

Ave Sodalis

Airyfairy12 wrote:

If you have a medical card and your GP refers you to a psychotherapist youre put on a 6+ month waiting list and only entitled to 6 - 8 weeks of therapy, after your sessions are complete if you need more therapy youre told you can request another referral in 6 months. 6 weeks of therapy is not long enough for people suffering with mental health problems.

Not to mention that many can't make it due to work etc., in which case you lose your place. I'm on the waiting list now but I work part time. I get my rota on Sunday to start Monday and it changes weekly so I doubt I'll be able to actually take the sessions that I likely really need.

marklazarcovic

ChikiChiki wrote: »

People need to cop the **** on, open up and look after themselves because what they leave behind is almost always carnage.

And I do think as controversial as this will sound, there is a degree of selfishness associated with many suicides. People need to man up and open up.

Good for you,it worked, does not work that way for a lot of people.'man up' is a bull**** statement ok. Your dark thoughts as you describe them are far from the place someone gets when they end it all.
Try your dark thoughts 24 hrs a day,7 days a week,for decades, ... Man up then .


Aslo ,the absolute irony of hospitals turning away people because of addiction issues ,when they got addicted trying to escape the darkness there living. (Not all cases I know) .

arybvtcw0eolkf

I've said it in another thread, but most of my friends who have died young (and I'm seeing their faces as I type this) have died by suicide.

I'm 52 and you'd think at my age most would be dropping off by accidents, heart attacks & cancer etc. But no, suicide is killing my friends.

Going through Facebook this morning and seen a suicide awareness page and noticed 'Paul Smith liked this' ~ we buried Paul recently, another suicide statistic.

I hope if I ever get serious suicidal thoughts that I have the strength and forethought to seek help before its too late.

Graces7

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Good for you,it worked, does not work that way for a lot of people.'man up' is a bull**** statement ok. Your dark thoughts as you describe them are far from the place someone gets when they end it all.
Try your dark thoughts 24 hrs a day,7 days a week,for decades, ... Man up then .


Aslo ,the absolute irony of hospitals turning away people because of addiction issues ,when they got addicted trying to escape the darkness there living. (Not all cases I know) .

Been there done that and somehow you just hang on in there.

we had no "mental health care" and were treated brutally.

The Bishop Basher

Suicide is Ireland is at epidemic levels. It’s all being covered up and swept under the carpet which of course suits the government but I don’t think people realise just how bad it’s gotten.

I’ve lost count of the number of people locally that have taken their own lives and there’s so many that I knew personally.

We have to start reporting suicides for what they are and stop pretending they’re something else. I honestly believe the experts are wrong in this. We’re repeating the same mistakes of the past where we pretend things aren’t happening when everyone knows they are.

I don’t see how we can tackle this issue properly until we fully lift the lid off how prevalent and common it has become.

Fiery mutant

ChikiChiki wrote: »

People need to man up...

I’m sorry for your loss. I’ve never lost anyone close to me from suicide, i’ve known of some through other friends and that, but never anyone close, and for that I am incredibly lucky.

But the above phrase really pisses me off. It is this type of reaction and thought that stops men from seeking real help. We need to stop attaching this stigma that you’re not a real man if you are showing the emotion of hurt and pain.

I have my own dark times, as does everyone, in those times when I have needed people, the ones who really care, have always been there to listen and talk.

Suicide is a major problem among Irish men, and in my opinion, the help needs to start with Irish men. We need to throw off these pre conceived notions of who we are, and look around us once in a while.

Because you never know when someone close to you, might just start to become a memory.

The Princess Bride

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Lost 2 friends, an uncle and my father to suicide. To be honest I've had my own dark thoughts a lot of it a knock on effect. Ive opened up, taken corrective action and sought help.

People need to cop the **** on, open up and look after themselves because what they leave behind is almost always carnage.

And I do think as controversial as this will sound, there is a degree of selfishness associated with many suicides. People need to man up and open up.

Controversial?
Insensitive more like.
Have you read the following at all?

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Heres an article which outlines the state of the mental health services which resulted in the death of a young man in 2015. Note the appalling treatment of the parents and patient by medical staff.
https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2016/05/documenting-a-suicide/

Some people have tried to open up, tried to take action and tried to seek help, to no avail.

Are they selfish?
No.
Struggling, overwhelmed and at the end of their tether more likely.

RacoonQueen

There is nothing selfish about suicide.

Talk to someone. Open up. These things annoy me too, this isn't always possible. When you're in that place, you're not able to rationalise why you feel the way you feel. You don't always know why you feel the way you feel. You can't talk about something you don't understand yourself, particularly when we still have a couple of generations around who don't have the ability to understand that just 'not letting it/things/'a person' (whatever a persons trigger may be) get to you like that' is not how it works.

No one leaves their children behind willingly. A friend of mine died by suicide just under 3 months ago, left behind 3 children under 13. When I think of the suffering and torment she must have been going through, it kills me. Not once would I ever think it was awful selfish of her. Nothing about suicide is selfish. One of the things people go through is thinking that they don't want to tell their loved ones how bad things are because they don't want to worry them.

dense

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There is nothing selfish about suicide.

Talk to someone. Open up. These things annoy me too, this isn't always possible. When you're in that place, you're not able to rationalise why you feel the way you feel. You don't always know why you feel the way you feel. You can't talk about something you don't understand yourself, particularly when we still have a couple of generations around who don't have the ability to understand that just 'not letting it/things/'a person' (whatever a persons trigger may be) get to you like that' is not how it works.

No one leaves their children behind willingly. A friend of mine died by suicide just under 3 months ago, left behind 3 children under 13. When I think of the suffering and torment she must have been going through, it kills me. Not once would I ever think it was awful selfish of her. Nothing about suicide is selfish. One of the things people go through is thinking that they don't want to tell their loved ones how bad things are because they don't want to worry them.

You are presuming here that everyone has a supportive partner, which is fantasy.

Many are stuck in shït relationships with zero emotional support and no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.


I'm struck here by the constant wish to refuse someone the right to take their own life particularly after a referendum that was heralded as being evidence of us now maturing into a pro choice society.

Why the double standards from people?
The right to life side was basically told to mind their own business recently and to respect the choices of others, yet people seem hell bent on meddling and interfering in the lives of grown adults for whom life no longer holds any attraction.

Yes suicide is selfish, and so is projecting our neediness and emotional reaction to it, particularly this modern day phenomenon of distant-mourning random strangers we've never even met or know nothing about who have taken their own lives.

If an adult wants to die, who are we to deny them that right and choice now that we are allegedly so pro choice?

But apparently we know best for those contemplating suicide.
We don't. Sometimes we need to acknowledge this.

marklazarcovic

I wonder how many overdoses are actually suicide as well,intentional overdose,bet it's a lot,but goes down as accidental death or something.

marklazarcovic

dense wrote: »

You are presuming here that everyone has a supportive partner, which is fantasy.

Many are stuck in shït relationships with zero emotional support and no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.


I'm struck here by the constant wish to refuse someone the right to take their own life particularly after a referendum that was heralded as being evidence of us now maturing into a pro choice society.

Why the double standards from people?
The right to life side was basically told to mind their own business recently and to respect the choices of others, yet people seem hell bent on meddling and interfering in the lives of grown adults for whom life no longer holds any attraction.

Yes suicide is selfish, and so is projecting our neediness and emotional reaction to it, particularly this modern day phenomenon of distant-mourning random strangers we've never even met or know nothing about who have taken their own lives.

If an adult wants to die, who are we to deny them that right and choice now that we are allegedly so pro choice?

But apparently we know best for those contemplating suicide.
We don't. Sometimes we need to acknowledge this.

Superbly put ,thank you.

Ave Sodalis

Rennaws wrote:

I don’t see how we can tackle this issue properly until we fully lift the lid off how prevalent and common it has become.

I'm in two minds about this. Yes, the government and the health service need to do more, but reporting and normalising suicide leads to increased levels of suicide. This is why they often happen in batches. I don't think it's fair that any family feel shame, but I don't think letting everyone know it was suicide is the way to prevent further suicides either.

The Bishop Basher

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this. Yes, the government and the health service need to do more, but reporting and normalising suicide leads to increased levels of suicide. This is why they often happen in batches. I don't think it's fair that any family feel shame, but I don't think letting everyone know it was suicide is the way to prevent further suicides either.

I understand the argument. It’s a difficult tight rope to walk but based on my own experience and that of so many posters in this thread, I’m not sure it can get any worse..

I know at least 3 people personally in the last year alone. Same again last year. In my area there have been too many to mention. In one particular case it was 2 parents with young kids took their own lives within weeks of each other.

How bad does it have to get before we realise something has gone very seriously wrong with the nations mental health.

dense

dense wrote: »

IMO it comes down to having the means or the methods or materials at hand to do it to one's satisfaction, relatively fast and painless.



I don't know the figures but I am guessing in rural areas legally held firearms are popular, at least anecdotally that seems to be the case.



If there was a suicide pill on the bedside locker of a terminally ill patient's locker, I would expect a certain number to avail of it.
And perhaps there should be one there, to be in control of one's life and death.

I really don't believe that taking your own life is as simple as whether or not you have the means to do so. It's my view that it comes down to inner resilience and a strong sense of self. Something I mentioned here before is perspective and how differently we react to different things.

If I burn the dinner or drop a tray of glasses then I'll swear a bit, clean it up and that's the end of it. A different person may have their self-loathing activated, "I'm so stupid, I can never do anything right, why do people even bother with me, I hate myself".

Graces7

Rennaws wrote: »

I understand the argument. It’s a difficult tight rope to walk but based on my own experience and that of so many posters in this thread, I’m not sure it can get any worse..

I know at least 3 people personally in the last year alone. Same again last year. In my area there have been too many to mention. In one particular case it was 2 parents with young kids took their own lives within weeks of each other.

How bad does it have to get before we realise something has gone very seriously wrong with the nations mental health.

This is a world wide epidemic. not just Ire,and.

I do not see it as a mental health issue.
Not in any way. Social maybe.

Wanderer78

Graces7 wrote:

I do not see it as a mental health issue. Not in any way. Social maybe.

I find this a strange statement, what do you mean by it?

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't believe that taking your own life is as simple as whether or not you have the means to do so. It's my view that it comes down to inner resilience and a strong sense of self. Something I mentioned here before is perspective and how differently we react to different things.

If I burn the dinner or drop a tray of glasses then I'll swear a bit, clean it up and that's the end of it. A different person may have their self-loathing activated, "I'm so stupid, I can never do anything right, why do people even bother with me, I hate myself".

I react to things like that according to the time of day ie when the resources my physical illness attacks are low. So I know a bad reaction is just that

Maybe it is a lack of self awareness in folk? That they and "we" expect too much of them. See them as failures?

With many of the young men I have heard about here, alcohol abuse has been a part of it.

Graces7

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I find this a strange statement, what do you mean by it?

Mental illness is pretty clearly defined. Being suicidal is maybe a different matter? Reactive?

Friend of mine told her husband she was leaving him and taking the children.

He went into the shed and shot himself. He was not ill.

Suicide has many causes. That is all I am saying.

Wanderer78

Graces7 wrote:

Suicide has many causes. That is all I am saying.

Disagree of course, I've spoken to people who have had and regularly have suicidal ideations, it can occur almost instantaneously sometimes

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Mental illness is pretty clearly defined. Being suicidal is maybe a different matter? Reactive?

Friend of mine told her husband she was leaving him and taking the children.

He went into the shed and shot himself. He was not ill.

Suicide has many causes. That is all I am saying.

It could be argued that taking his life meant he was ill.

Airyfairy12

One again last night "Did you hear about X" where X is a lad around my age. I knew what the next sentence was going to be. Bloody sick of it at this stage.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Mental health services in Ireland are an absolute, utter disgrace. For a start, pretty much anyone can register themselves as a counselor with no qualifications, its an unregulated profession which means unqualified or ill experienced counselors are setting up practices and haven't a clue what theyre doing, they cause more harm than good.
Trained counselors are only good for helping people with short term depression caused by sudden life events and mild anxiety, theyre not equipped to treat people with long term depression or mental illness.
Psychotherapists are the only professionals who should be dealing with people who have mental illness, problem is they charge way beyond what any low or medium waged earner can afford.
If you have a medical card and your GP refers you to a psychotherapist youre put on a 6+ month waiting list and only entitled to 6 - 8 weeks of therapy, after your sessions are complete if you need more therapy youre told you can request another referral in 6 months.
6 weeks of therapy is not long enough for people suffering with mental health problems.

Lot of luck involved in how it goes but overall it's a disgrace. On the HSE side I've had little but huge respect for all the staff given their lot.

Depressed people and people with mental illness are continuously told to 'talk to someone' .. talk to who? The helplines are a total joke, theyre only there to show face. If anyone even answers the phone youre met a volunteer who has no training in treating mental illness or theyre a student counselor with no experience. They repeat your sentences back to you and ask if you have anybody to talk to. Allot of people genuinely don't have anyone whose willing to listen or help out. People say they care but when it comes down to it they wont give the time of day. Sad but true and reality for allot of people.

People get very uncomfortable around any mention of mental disorders, ive learned to hold in any anxious thoughts or behaviors I have around people I know because they will judge me for it as they have done repeatedly in the past. The same people that run darkness into light marathons and share mental health awareness posts on social media are often the same people to turn their backs and get irritated by anyone who openly talks to them or others about their mental illness. There is no where to turn for most people.

I could have typed this message out myself. With the whatever number of dozen of mental health and suicide BS charities on the go it would be lovely if the money was spent properly, but it's not. The usual faces show up with Darkness into Light, people get their Facebook profile pic sorted and a few more useless idiots can man the phones. Most of the people I know who do stuff have their hearts in the right place but they haven't a clue.

I'm very, very open about stuff but I'm still cognisant of pissing people off. Even my best mates are like "Oh you should talk". How the **** is talking going to help when I've thought something a hundred times? I'm asked if I want to go out, I say no, I get the whole "Aw you have to make an effort" and all I want to say is that if I'm in a pub surrounded by pissed people there'd be a fair chance I wouldn't make it home. I have to sneak off for panic attacks sometimes and people understandably don't want to hear about every one but still I get a hard time to not want to do stuff and I end up having to "play that card". The dickheads talking about breaking the stigma can **** off. At the same time I wouldn't want to listen to someone like me sharing everything because it would bring me down but it's the bull**** pretence that gets to me.

Airyfairy12

Graces7 wrote: »

Mental illness is pretty clearly defined. Being suicidal is maybe a different matter? Reactive?

Friend of mine told her husband she was leaving him and taking the children.

He went into the shed and shot himself. He was not ill.

Suicide has many causes. That is all I am saying.

Mental health is on a spectrum from good to bad and can move up or down that spectrum at any given time, depending on illness, life events, chemical imbalances, diet etc.
People don't have to be suffering with an illness to kill themselves, suicides still caused by mental health. Problems with mental health are more than a long term illnesses and its not that easily explained. Depression/suicidal thoughts can be a result of any mental health issue, which there are many.

You dont know what was going on with her husband. Allot of people hold in how theyre feeling for years before one event or situations pushes them over the edge.

Graces7

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Mental health is on a spectrum from good to bad and can move up or down that spectrum at any given time, depending on illness, life events, chemical imbalances, diet etc.
People don't have to be suffering with an illness to kill themselves, suicides still caused by mental health. Problems with mental health are more than a long term illnesses and its not that easily explained. Depression/suicidal thoughts can be a result of any mental health issue, which there are many.

You dont know what was going on with her husband. Allot of people hold in how theyre feeling for years before one event or situations pushes them over the edge.

So what is it you expect from mental health services ? ie issues that can be addressed by services rather than by us as family and friends?

We all get depressed; and get negative and despairing thoughts. It is part of the human condition, not mental illness.

The term mental health as you apply it is inaccurate and misleading? That is why I used the term 'social" rather than mental.

Graces7

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Disagree of course, I've spoken to people who have had and regularly have suicidal ideations, it can occur almost instantaneously sometimes

True but that is not what we are talking about.

Graces7

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Mental health is on a spectrum from good to bad and can move up or down that spectrum at any given time, depending on illness, life events, chemical imbalances, diet etc.
People don't have to be suffering with an illness to kill themselves, suicides still caused by mental health. Problems with mental health are more than a long term illnesses and its not that easily explained. Depression/suicidal thoughts can be a result of any mental health issue, which there are many.

You dont know what was going on with her husband. Allot of people hold in how theyre feeling for years before one event or situations pushes them over the edge.

That is a very odd way to see things So why then blame the HSE etc? Mental ILLNESS is their province

Disagree with your premise. Easy to blame in the wrong place and not to see how to support a friend.

jacksie66

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Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

So what is it you expect from mental health services ? ie issues that can be addressed by services rather than by us as family and friends?

The mental health services are massively under-funded and not properly integrated with social services and the general health service. You can wait absolutely ages to be seen unless you do something to get to the front of the queue. Once you're at the front you can drop off if you don't "engage" which can be missing an appointment or 2. Thinking of where I live if there's an emergency outside of office hours there's one place catering to 300,000 people. You can go there and if everything is going swimmingly in the residential wing then you could be seen that day if you're very lucky. I know someone who sat with a family member all day and overnight waiting to be seen. These aren't injuries that need a few stitches, this is people at the very end of what they can deal with. Again anecdotes apparently aren't evidence but I know of numerous cases of people looking to get into residential care and presenting as suicidal, getting turned away and they were gone within a month. That's the reality. There aren't enough staff, not enough services and not enough integration.