All-Ireland SFC Final: Dublin v Mayo. Sunday 17th @ 3:30pm **(MOD NOTE POST#2 #395)**

mickmackey1

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'm sorry but this business of 'Any team that wins an all-ireland is better than every team that didn't'.....no thats not true.

The guy that won the Olympics in 100m in 1932 would finish last by 10 metres in the 2020 Olympics. And the same applies in football. The standards then are not the same as the standards now.

Kerry won an all-ireland in 1930 by winning just 3 games, and they beat Monaghan 3-11 to 2 points in the final in front of a half full stadium.

The Mayo team that went out yesterday would have wiped the floor with that team and would have done same to the Meath team of the '90s, the Dublin team of the '80s, the Down team of the '60s, the Cavan team of the 1940s.

Of course they would; their conditioning is so much better.

Are they better footballers man for man, with an equivalent amount of training.....we'll never know. But they are better conditioned, better trained, better drilled.

The standards now are higher than they've ever been; and Mayo are the only team that have been able to consistently come close to Dublin in championship football over the course of the decade. In addition, Andy Moran is one of the best forwards the game has ever seen; and Lee Keegan is one of the best half backs the game has ever seen.

Ridiculous post, you can only be the best of your own generation and making comparisons on the grounds of 'better preparation' is folly. By your logic the Mayo team of 2070 will be on a different level to yesterday's team, and so the likes of Keegan and Moran cannot be considered as great players.

pimpmyhat

tritium wrote: »

Jesus that dublin team of the 1890's was awesome

They were good but that Wexford 4 in a row side 1915-1918 were sublime.
Really strong in the tackle with lightning pace up front with a work ethic not matched since!!

listermint

The Talking Bread wrote: »

"Specialises in scummy behaviour " what a stupid comment, ignoring the limited extent of your vocabulary.

Well it's pretty "scummy" in my book to see a simpleton taking pleasure out of seeing a lad like that suffering another heartbreak after years of sacrifice, bloodshed and being one of the best players in the country for last few years.

There is hundreds of illegal fouls, on and off the ball every game. I wouldn't get over offended by desperate effort to put someone off in the last second of the match with so much at stake.

GAA has never prided itself on being a gentlemens game so something like that compared to the likes of eye gouging is where context comes in.


"Scummy"

Will you give up this guff about eye gouging, I suggest you go back to school if you think your eyes are below your nose.

It makes you look like a five your old to keep spreading this false nonsense.

MfMan

Yerra, Galway 98-01 had at least 3 better forwards than anything Dublin have currently, and the supporting cast wasn't bad either. Now there was an underrated team!

:-)

Tombo2001

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Ridiculous post, you can only be the best of your own generation and making comparisons on the grounds of 'better preparation' is folly. By your logic the Mayo team of 2070 will be on a different level to yesterday's team, and so the likes of Keegan and Moran cannot be considered as great players.

Look, there is a difference between 'the greatest' and 'the best'.

Again the athletics comparison.

The second fastest 800m in Olympic history is Nijel Amos. He ran 1'41 in the 2012 Olympics. He won Silver; he was up against the best 800m runner of all time.

In a discipline where speed is the defining difference as to who is better - i.e. a slower runner is not better than a faster runner - Amos is unquestionably the second fastest runner to have run the 800m event in Olympic history.

Is he a greater runner than Seb Coe? Who knows.

Was he faster than Seb Coe? Yes he was. And that makes him better. Its a plain fact.

And you are right; you can only be the best for your time.

kilns

MfMan wrote: »

Yerra, Galway 98-01 had at least 3 better forwards than anything Dublin have currently, and the supporting cast wasn't bad either.  Now there was an underrated team!

:-)

The strength of this Dublin team is that they are strong team from 1-15 with no weak links, Mayo have weak links and so do most teams and even all ireland winning teams have had weak links but this Dublin team from 1-15 have no real superstars but from 1-15 have such a high standard and then the substitutes dont let that standard drop and thats why they are better than everyone else currently

The Talking Bread

listermint wrote: »

Will you give up this guff about eye gouging, I suggest you go back to school if you think your eyes are below your nose.

It makes you look like a five your old to keep spreading this false nonsense.

Eh, first time I mentioned it. In fact I haven't been on the thread at all. I was referring to the comparison in general.... pretty clear what I was saying

And trust me, I can wholeheartedly say I'm very well educated..

jr86

kilns wrote: »

The strength of this Dublin team is that they are strong team from 1-15 with no weak links, Mayo have weak links and so do most teams and even all ireland winning teams have had weak links but this Dublin team from 1-15 have no real superstars but from 1-15 have such a high standard and then the substitutes dont let that standard drop and thats why they are better than everyone else currently

I agree with you but it's all relative.

All of this dublin team would look like superstars on other teams.

The Talking Bread

mickmackey1 wrote: »

It's quite offensive to 5 year olds comparing them to that poster.

What in God's name are you on about?? What did I say

Shurimgreat

Are Am Eye wrote: »

That's about your twentieth post on the subject.

You're claiming Kerry 4 in a row as the greatest team of all time.

So "this nonsense" is right up your street.

No, I like a couple others around here had enough of listening all morning about Dublin being the greatest ever. They aren't even close.
Maybe we should just leave it at that. A great achievement, but not close to being the greatest of all time. That would be a fair assessment and I think most Dubs should accept that.

blanch152

This Dublin team now belong in a conversation about the greatest team of all time. They have won five All-Irelands in seven years. The Kerry team from 1975-1981 won five All-Irelands in seven years. They had a two-year break before winning another three-in-a-row - with significant personnel changes by then.

Arguments for the Kerry team will point to the great 74-77 Dublin team they vanquished and the extra titles from 1984-1986.

Arguments for this Dublin team will point to the four leagues in a row, the higher level of competition, the excellent Mayo team and the greater difficulty in winning because of quarter-finals etc.

Of course there are also arguments against both teams, the poverty of their respective provincial championships being one - will anyone ever rack up 9-21 like Kerry did against Clare?

Nevertheless, because of the three-in-a-row, it is a conversation that can happen. Up until now, we were told Dublin can't be considered great because they haven't won three-in-a-row. Now, we can all agree that this a great team that we are privileged to see and we can consider whether they are the greatest or what they need to do to show they are the greatest.

Incidentally, if the Super 8s work as intended, it will be a long time before another team does a three-in-a-row.

Haileunlikely

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Haileunlikely wrote: »

Just one question
Why is the assistant coach Sherlock allowed to run on field of play during match to tell Cluxton what to do with the kick outs?

1 member of backroom staff (non manager I think)  is allowed to run into pitch with instructions. Every team does it.

Thank you for that
In that case Mayo needed someone in the last minute to tell Clarke what to do with the final kick out

TheCitizen

tritium wrote: »

Jesus that dublin team of the 1890's was awesome

I'd safely say they were overrated.:D

the butcher

Dublin are close....they have 3 in a row for f**k sake lol. If this was Mayo and they had 3 in a row they would be held up as one of the greatest - because they are a top team...just missing that killer blow and the obvious marked wins in the history book.

Mayo had the better team performance than Dublin on the day (esp in the first half), also tactically better (O'Gara retire please) but made too many mistakes in the second half and the red card being the huge turning point in the game. Dublins grit and composure ensured the victory in the dying minutes. Any neutral I talked to said it was an excellent game...the amount of salt thrown around in this thread is immense.

jr86

blanch152 wrote: »

Incidentally, if the Super 8s work as intended, it will be a long time before another team does a three-in-a-row.

aside from Dublin you mean?

As I fancy Dublin to win the next three for starters

TheCitizen

blanch152 wrote: »

This Dublin team now belong in a conversation about the greatest team of all time. They have won five All-Irelands in seven years. The Kerry team from 1975-1981 won five All-Irelands in seven years. They had a two-year break before winning another three-in-a-row - with significant personnel changes by then.

Arguments for the Kerry team will point to the great 74-77 Dublin team they vanquished and the extra titles from 1984-1986.

Arguments for this Dublin team will point to the four leagues in a row, the higher level of competition, the excellent Mayo team and the greater difficulty in winning because of quarter-finals etc.

Of course there are also arguments against both teams, the poverty of their respective provincial championships being one - will anyone ever rack up 9-21 like Kerry did against Clare?

Nevertheless, because of the three-in-a-row, it is a conversation that can happen. Up until now, we were told Dublin can't be considered great because they haven't won three-in-a-row. Now, we can all agree that this a great team that we are privileged to see and we can consider whether they are the greatest or what they need to do to show they are the greatest.

Incidentally, if the Super 8s work as intended, it will be a long time before another team does a three-in-a-row.

Nope. That conversation is jumping the gun. 3 in a row, does not put a team in "greatest of all time" conversations.

pajero12

Slattsy wrote: »

Most of you are probably arguing with a handful of school children that are sitting down the back of the class on their phones. Don't know why most of you bother.

As for Lee Keegan. Scummy. The desperation must be at extreme levels to be doing that. Cheat of the highest order. Hopefully something gets thrown at him, a long ban. Scummy behaviour from a scummy man. Absolutely thrilled to see him crying at the end. Hopefully he was still crying into his corn flakes this morning.

Lost another All Ireland final #thingsLeedid

Up the Dubs.

What class do you have next? He's a scummy guy for trying to put an opponent off a game winning kick?
Alright then :rolleyes:
Surely a person of such moral values will be calling for O'Gara to be penalized too? Putting your fingers in someone elses mouth is a lot scummier than throwing a gps unit!

TheCitizen

Slattsy wrote: »

Most of you are probably arguing with a handful of school children that are sitting down the back of the class on their phones. Don't know why most of you bother.

As for Lee Keegan. Scummy. The desperation must be at extreme levels to be doing that. Cheat of the highest order. Hopefully something gets thrown at him, a long ban. Scummy behaviour from a scummy man. Absolutely thrilled to see him crying at the end. Hopefully he was still crying into his corn flakes this morning.

Lost another All Ireland final #thingsLeedid

Up the Dubs.

Scummy post

Are Am Eye

Shurimgreat wrote: »

No, I like a couple others around here had enough of listening all morning about Dublin being the greatest ever. They aren't even close.
Maybe we should just leave it at that. A great achievement, but not close to being the greatest of all time. That would be a fair assessment and I think most Dubs should accept that.

Absolutely not, you have argued at length and actively for who in your opinion is of the greatest team of all time. Which shows firstly and most importantly that you believe such an accolade exists. So if you're criticising a Dublin supporter for making such a foolish argument then you are a hypocrite because you are every bit making the same argument. Only difference you're trying to back out of it now.

DFS UTD

Can someone tell me who was yellow carded and time for both sides - I think Dublin had 7 yellow and a red (small) and mayo had 2 yellows and a straight red (Vaughan) - but who got all the other yellows and at what time

Thanks

Will I Am Not

All the whinging makes it even better. Keep her lit lads.

GerryDerpy

How could a team from >30 years ago be considered better than a modern team? Nutrition, strength training, no smoking, no heavy drinking, GPS tracking, heart rate monitors etc. etc.

TheCitizen

Are Am Eye wrote: »

That's about your twentieth post on the subject.

You're claiming Kerry 4 in a row as the greatest team of all time.

So "this nonsense" is right up your street.

He's right though, it's Dub posters on here who started that and then when others pull them up on it, you come along and throw it out that those pulling them up on their outlandish claims are at fault for the "greatest team of all time" conversation in the first place.:rolleyes:

It looks like your view is "Dublin poster is right no matter what they say and anyone who disagrees is wrong". Tribalism of a ridiculous order.

bucketybuck

the butcher wrote: »

Dublin are close....they have 3 in a row for f**k sake lol.

And they will have 5 soon enough. The age profile of the various top teams means I can only see Dublin winning the next couple of titles, they are entering their prime while Mayo are declining and the others are all a few years away from being contenders. That doesn't mean Dublin are unbeatable, but these first three will be a lot harder won than the next 2 in my opinion.

Its very clear that this Dublin team is one of the greatest ever and no, I'm not from Dublin. What I find interesting is that every year its a different player dragging them to victory. Other great teams always had the same legends standing tall, the likes of O'Se or Canavan. But for Dublin one year its Brogan who is the main man, next its Macauley, then its Fenton, and this year its McCarthy who stood up to be counted. Maybe thats why people don't think they aren't greats, instead of the "tentpole" legends they just have a full team of great players any one of whom could do the business.

TheCitizen

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

All the whinging makes it even better. Keep her lit lads.

Keep the hubris lit lads

TheCitizen

GerryDerpy wrote: »

How could a team from >30 years ago be considered better than a modern team? Nutrition, strength training, no smoking, no heavy drinking, GPS tracking, heart rate monitors etc. etc.

This reminds me of the intro to the Newstalk Off The Ball show. "How can a modern day manager not have a mobile phone? .....Why should he?"

LeinsterDub

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. That conversation is jumping the gun. 3 in a row, does not put a team in "greatest of all time" conversations.

Have we given up jumping sharks?

Are Am Eye

TheCitizen wrote: »

He's right though, it's Dub posters on here who started that and then when others pull them up on it, you come along and throw it out that those pulling them up on their outlandish claims are at fault for the "greatest team of all time" conversation in the first place.:rolleyes:

It looks like your view is "Dublin poster is right no matter what they say and anyone who disagrees is wrong". Tribalism of a ridiculous order.

No not at all innocent like that. Great detail on the team of the millenium, all stars, how many all ireland s kerry won. Sneering population reference. Kerry have the population of a small dublin suburb.

He was having a great time. Great time altoghter. This'll make up for yesterday's result not being what I want. And he'd a made another twenty posts on the subject. Only he was challenged on it. And ye don't like being challeged on your circle jerks about referee conspiracys, population suburbs, sponorship money. Just want an echo chamber. But when challenged you back off and play all innocent.

TheCitizen

bucketybuck wrote: »

And they will have 5 soon enough. The age profile of the various top teams means I can only see Dublin winning the next couple of titles, they are entering their prime while Mayo are declining and the others are all a few years away from being contenders. That doesn't mean Dublin are unbeatable, but these first three will be a lot harder won than the next 2 in my opinion.

Its very clear that this Dublin team is one of the greatest ever and no, I'm not from Dublin. What I find interesting is that every year its a different player dragging them to victory. Other great teams always had the same legends standing tall, the likes of O'Se or Canavan. But for Dublin one year its Brogan who is the main man, next its Macauley, then its Fenton, and this year its McCarthy who stood up to be counted. Maybe thats why people don't think they aren't greats, instead of the "tentpole" legends they just have a full team of great players any one of whom could do the business.

In your opinion is the key phrase here. Dublin are on 3 in a row, not 4 right now. Talk of 5 is ridiculously premature. You're losing the run of yourself.

blanch152

TheCitizen wrote: »

Nope. That conversation is jumping the gun. 3 in a row, does not put a team in "greatest of all time" conversations.

Well, outside of a few disgruntled Mayo supporters and sympathisers on here, everyone else is having that conversation, just read the newspapers, watch the television and listen to the radio. Is this Dublin team the greatest is the conversation that people are having.

listermint

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, outside of a few disgruntled Mayo supporters and sympathisers on here, everyone else is having that conversation, just read the newspapers, watch the television and listen to the radio. Is this Dublin team the greatest is the conversation that people are having.

So great in fact we should be splitting them up...... Were they not so great then that nugget would not continually be being brought up. I wonder has thecitizen asked that question before ?

TheCitizen

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Have we given up jumping sharks?

I don't know if your team has jumped a shark, maybe they have, we'll find out next year. i do know that loads of dub fans on here are jumping to conclusions. A lot of them seem to forget that before you can win 5 they have to get 4 first. Ridiculously ott wishful thinking on behalf of The Dubs fans.

Billy86

GerryDerpy wrote: »

How could a team from >30 years ago be considered better than a modern team? Nutrition, strength training, no smoking, no heavy drinking, GPS tracking, heart rate monitors etc. etc.

I think it needs to be taken in as all relative - Muhammad Ali, Pele, even more recent guys like Wayne Gretsky or Michael Jordan if directly transplanted from when they were playing to right now probably wouldn't look at all as impressive now either. But then if they had the same advantages you listed, who's to say they wouldn't stand out as much today as they did back then?

TheCitizen

blanch152 wrote: »

Well, outside of a few disgruntled Mayo supporters and sympathisers on here, everyone else is having that conversation, just read the newspapers, watch the television and listen to the radio. Is this Dublin team the greatest is the conversation that people are having.

They shouldn't be. They're not in that territory.

jacool

Slattsy wrote: »

Most of you are probably arguing with a handful of school children that are sitting down the back of the class on their phones. Don't know why most of you bother.

As for Lee Keegan. Scummy. The desperation must be at extreme levels to be doing that. Cheat of the highest order. Hopefully something gets thrown at him, a long ban. Scummy behaviour from a scummy man. Absolutely thrilled to see him crying at the end. Hopefully he was still crying into his corn flakes this morning.

Lost another All Ireland final #thingsLeedid

Up the Dubs.

Not the scummiest thing done on the pitch yesterday, but he will be one of two players off to the CCCC. Don't know if there is a precedent for this one though. The other perpetrator averages a CCCC visit once every 3 years, so at least he'll know the way.

TheCitizen

listermint wrote: »

So great in fact we should be splitting them up...... Were they not so great then that nugget would not continually be being brought up. I wonder has thecitizen asked that question before ?

I don't recall but feel free to look it up there.

Billy86

TheCitizen wrote: »

In your opinion is the key phrase here. Dublin are on 3 in a row, not 4 right now. Talk of 5 is ridiculously premature. You're losing the run of yourself.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't know if your team has jumped a shark, maybe they have, we'll find out next year. i do know that loads of dub fans on here are jumping to conclusions. A lot of them seem to forget that before you can win 5 they have to get 4 first. Ridiculously ott wishful thinking on behalf of The Dubs fans.

Hold on... so it's ridiculously premature for people to talk about five in a row (which I generally agree with) but at the same time you're pontificating about Dublin having jumped the shark literally the day after they have own their third all Ireland trophy on the bounce? :pac:

TheCitizen

jacool wrote: »

Not the scummiest thing done on the pitch yesterday, but he will be one of two players off to the CCCC. Don't know if there is a precedent for this one though. The other perpetrator averages a CCCC visit once every 3 years, so at least he'll know the way.

Who's the other? O'Gara for the gouge was it? Was his behaviour described as 'scummy' by that Dublin fan one wonders?

LeinsterDub

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't know if your team has jumped a shark, maybe they have, we'll find out next year. i do know that loads of dub fans on here are jumping to conclusions. A lot of them seem to forget that before you can win 5 they have to get 4 first. Ridiculously ott wishful thinking on behalf of The Dubs fans.

These Dublin fans only exist in your own little world.

bucketybuck

TheCitizen wrote: »

In your opinion is the key phrase here. Dublin are on 3 in a row, not 4 right now. Talk of 5 is ridiculously premature. You're losing the run of yourself.

So you keep saying. I don't know why you keep saying it but hey, keep up the good fight.

listermint

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don't recall but feel free to look it up there.

Im not bothered but id imagine you have. they dont recall is a get out card.

What are your thoughts on Dublin being broken up? since you know being as good as they are this question tends to raise itself outside the county regularly.

TheCitizen

Billy86 wrote: »

Hold on... so it's ridiculously premature for people to talk about five in a row (which I generally agree with) but at the same time you're pontificating about Dublin having jumped the shark literally the day after they have own their third all Ireland trophy on the bounce? :pac:

I'm not pontificating about the Dublin team "jumping the shark", I'm saying I don't know if they have, "maybe they have, we will find out next year", is what I said.

Why are you trying to make out that I'm saying things I'm not? That's a couple of times you've done that. A sure sign of someone with poor debating skills.

If you want to engage me in conversation do so honestly or forget it.

Hammer Archer

I'm closing this for the moment while either myself or another mod gets the chance to review it. Several posters should be expecting cards or bans.

Any more crap like there has been in the last few pages in other threads and it'll be a definite ban.