crossing livestock on a regional road

Muckit

Whatever about the car, l hope you are ok. You are still probably in shock. Hipefully no major injuries. It's a very unfortunate thing to have happened. Had you anyone else in the car with you? Were there orher witnesses?

Playing devil's advocate, If he had somebody back and front, then he COULD be seen to have taken reasonable precautions to control his animals , even if one broke away. Animals can do that. Was he crossing the road with them or was he moving them along the road? Were you signalled to by the farmers as you approached? Did u obey their signal?

The other thing is that sheep are small (small mass). How in God's name did you manage to write off your car by hitting one? You had to have been travelling at speed. You too are supposed to be in control of your motor vehicle and be able to stop when required.

There would be no obligation on him to have had signage on the road.

Muckit

Rereading your post. If he was crossing sheep across the road and had nobody on the road, then he would be in the wrong IMO.

cabledude

Muckit wrote: »

Whatever about the car, l hope you are ok. You are still probably in shock. Hipefully no major injuries. It's a very unfortunate thing to have happened. Had you anyone else in the car with you? Were there orher witnesses?

No injuries, thankfully. Was on my way to work. No witnesses stopped. The farmer saw it happening. As did I, obviously.

Playing devil's advocate, If he had somebody back and front, then he COULD be seen to have taken reasonable precautions to control his animals , even if one broke away. Animals can do that. Was he crossing the road with them or was he moving them along the road? Were you signalled to by the farmers as you approached?

No signal. He was in the enterance across the road, where he had brought the herd. As I said, the animal appeared out of nowhere.

Did u obey their signal?

There was no signal. Thats the thing. Nothing to alert drivers to any type of danger ahead.

The other thing is that sheep are small (small mass). How in God's name did you manage to write off your car by hitting one?

Car moving at 80kmph. That is 22.22 m/s and the car weighhs probably 1600kgs. That is a lot of momentum and energy. It met a small but bulky mass and the car did its job. They are meant to fold, and it did.

You had to have been travelling at speed. You too are supposed to be in control of your motor vehicle and be able to stop when required.

I had only traveled around 600m on the main road ( I live just off the main road) when I encountered the sheep. I was accelerating obviously as I was getting up the top speed, which on this stretch of road is 100kmph. I was going at a handy tack, not a boy racer.

cabledude

Muckit wrote: »

Rereading your post. If he was crossing sheep across the road and had nobody on the road, then he would be in the wrong IMO.

No. He had no one on the road flagging down drivers to alert them to any risk ahead.

TwoOldBoots

Sounds like the farmer is not insured. I doubt any insurance company would cover the farmer to move cattle on foot on a public road nowdays.
Either way it sounds like he's at fault and not playing ball so best just push on to your Solicitor and sue him

Genghis Cant

cabledude wrote: »

Had my car written off recently by a farmer moving sheep............

This could get messy now as he is not cooperating with me.........

You need to be very careful here discussing a case that may be sub judice.
If there is a case you don't want to prejudice the outcome.

PeterCasey

Its very dangerous moving stock on any road now, I wouldn't see anybody moving them down here the last person was a farmer who thought because he was the fourth generation farming he felt the locality should wait until his cows went in for milking no body hunting them until one evening there was an accident on the main road fire brigades came trouble getting through they threw the book at him and one of them was he had no sinage to warn people .

TwoOldBoots

I would not dream of moving cattle by foot on the road now. You're not Insured to do so, and if some thing goes wrong then its the whole farm thats on the line. A simple case of whiplash is now costing 40k outside of Solicitors fees. God forbid if there was a bigger accident then I`d say you can say good-luck to the farm

Muckit

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

You're not Insured to do so

That is factually incorrect. Check your policy with your insurance provider.

Muckit

PeterCasey wrote: »

Its very dangerous moving stock on any road now, I wouldn't see anybody moving them down here the last person was a farmer who thought because he was the fourth generation farming he felt the locality should wait until his cows went in for milking no body hunting them until one evening there was an accident on the main road fire brigades came trouble getting through they threw the book at him and one of them was he had no sinage to warn people .

Pure gossip chat

TwoOldBoots

Muckit wrote: »

That is factually incorrect. Check your policy with your insurance provider.

Well if you think you're covered to have cattle on the road and to cause an accident then work away. My Policy does not, you need to check your provider and ask them how much extra it is to get that sort of cover

Muckit

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

Well if you think you're covered to have cattle on the road and to cause an accident then work away. My Policy does not, you need to check your provider and ask them how much extra it is to get that sort of cover

I don't think it. I know it.

George Sunsnow

Muckit wrote: »

I don't think it. I know it.

Yes my policy covers cattle on foot ie on public roads
Two of the neighbors cross cows along a busy road to milk them
A farmer herding cattle is one of the few people legally entitled to stop traffic for that purpose

Keepgrowing

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

Well if you think you're covered to have cattle on the road and to cause an accident then work away. My Policy does not, you need to check your provider and ask them how much extra it is to get that sort of cover

We're fully covered to move livestock along the road and to cross the road. The cover extends to asking a person not employed by me to stand in a gap.

Insurance, it's all about the detail not the price.

I move cattle on the road very regularly and I've noticed that drivers are not as attentive or as courteous as in year gone by. I've had to jump out it the way of drivers while crossing cows, despite adequate signage, hi viz and a vehicle parked with beacon. I know block the road as a safety precaution.

TwoOldBoots

Keepgrowing wrote: »

We're fully covered to move livestock along the road and to cross the road. The cover extends to asking a person not employed by me to stand in a gap.

Insurance, it's all about the detail not the price.

I move cattle on the road very regularly and I've noticed that drivers are not as attentive or as courteous as in year gone by. I've had to jump out it the way of drivers while crossing cows, despite adequate signage, hi viz and a vehicle parked with beacon. I know block the road as a safety precaution.

My point is You are fully covered if you follow every possible step to make it safe. But accidents don't happen on those occasions. It's when you are down a man or forgot to put up the signage but decide to "chance it anyway", then you are not covered. So basically you have no cover if you are at fault ie you are not in control of the cattle or situation.
Don't believe the Gossip, ring the Insurance provider they will tell you the same

ford2600

https://amp.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/whos-liable-for-stock-on-a-busy-road-35158333.html

emaherx

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

My point is You are fully covered if you follow every possible step to make it safe. But accidents don't happen on those occasions. It's when you are down a man or forgot to put up the signage but decide to "chance it anyway", then you are not covered. So basically you have no cover if you are at fault ie you are not in control of the cattle or situation.
Don't believe the Gossip, ring the Insurance provider they will tell you the same

What use is insurance if you are not covered if you are at fault? If you were not at fault you wouldn't require your insurance.

More to the point if you believe you are ever fully in control of cattle, that will be your biggest fault.

wrangler

emaherx wrote: »

What use is insurance if you are not covered if you are at fault? If you were not at fault you wouldn't require your insurance.

More to the point if you believe you are ever fully in control of cattle, that will be your biggest fault.

Insurance won't cure the guilt either.
Insurance covers carelessness, it doesn't excuse it

PeterCasey

Muckit wrote: »

Pure gossip chat

Are you sure of that arrogance at its best.

emaherx

wrangler wrote: »

Insurance won't cure the guilt either.
Insurance covers carelessness, it doesn't excuse it

Not for a second suggesting people should not be as safe as possible at all times, but the previous poster suggested that insurance doesn't pay out if your found to be at fault. (And it would be very carless to not have adequate cover regardless of how careful you are)

PeterCasey

Muckit wrote: »

Pure gossip chat

The accident they were going to a person died, its up to all of us to be carefull out there as a contractor I know all about it people only think of there selves take a chance that split second changes a lot.

TwoOldBoots

emaherx wrote: »

Not for a second suggesting people should not be as safe as possible at all times, but the previous poster suggested that insurance doesn't pay out if your found to be at fault. (And it would be very carless to not have adequate cover regardless of how careful you are)

If the fault is caused by your negligence then the Insurance will not cover you.
Do you think you can move cattle along a public road not take due care and cause a crash then expect the man from FBD to come out and pat you on the back and tell you your grand we've got you covered??
If you believe so then you must have that farm come to you soft as it'll be a case of easy come easy go

Mooooo

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

If the fault is caused by your negligence then the Insurance will not cover you.
Do you think you can move cattle along a public road not take due care and cause a crash then expect the man from FBD to come out and pat you on the back and tell you your grand we've got you covered??
If you believe so then you must have that farm come to you soft as it'll be a case of easy come easy go

If you have an accident in a car and you are at fault does your insurance not pay out?

emaherx

TwoOldBoots wrote: »

If the fault is caused by your negligence then the Insurance will not cover you.
Do you think you can move cattle along a public road not take due care and cause a crash then expect the man from FBD to come out and pat you on the back and tell you your grand we've got you covered??
If you believe so then you must have that farm come to you soft as it'll be a case of easy come easy go

All accidents can be defined as negligence, so insurance never pay out then?

PeterCasey

Mod note.....

This type of post falls below the standard of what we expect here in F&F.
A repeat of this old mullarky will result in a Mod action.
An action with such force and vigor that it could knock the mighty balls off a bull.
Thanks. GC

PeterCasey

PeterCasey wrote: »

Mod note.....

This type of post falls below the standard of what we expect here in F&F.
A repeat of this old mullarky will result in a Mod action.
An action with such force and vigor that it could knock the mighty balls off a bull.
Thanks. GC

That sounds like a physical threat to me.

Base price

PeterCasey wrote: »

That sounds like a physical threat to me.

That sounds like fighting talk to me :eek:

Buford T. Justice XIX

PeterCasey wrote: »

That sounds like a physical threat to me.

Mod note:Now Peter, welcome to F&F, firstly. We tend not to card posts that would attract them elsewhere as we expect posters to here to display a level of maturity in their posting. The post was a playful rebuke to suggest that you consider putting some more thought into your posts before hitting the submit key. So, as it seems to have been missed by you, I'll lay it straight up to you.

Your post was below the standard we require on the forum. Please take more care when posting as we expect posters to be responsible for what they post here.

Thanks in advance,

Buford T. Justice.

PeterCasey

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Mod note:Now Peter, welcome to F&F, firstly. We tend not to card posts that would attract them elsewhere as we expect posters to here to display a level of maturity in their posting. The post was a playful rebuke to suggest that you consider putting some more thought into your posts before hitting the submit key. So, as it seems to have been missed by you, I'll lay it straight up to you.

Your post was below the standard we require on the forum. Please take more care when posting as we expect posters to be responsible for what they post here.

Thanks in advance,

Buford T. Justice.

You should practice what you preach about maturity you reckoned it was a playful rebuke people looking at it would say different . If this is the way things are controlled I am closing my account.

Gravelly

A bit late to this thread, but a word of advice to anyone who thinks signage and gates means that drivers will slow down - if you are approaching any toll booth in Ireland, there is miles and miles of warnings, from huge signage starting 20km out, all the way to the impossible to miss widening of the road before the very, very obvious toll booths. I was speaking to an engineer that works on the toll booths a while ago, and he told me that so many people accidently hit the barriers that they have to keep a large stock of them for replacements. He told me that one BMW-driving lady in Dublin hit the same barrier twice in one week. Now if lots of people can't slow down in time for a feckin tollbooth, that you could nearly see from space, you are being very optimistic if you think putting up a couple of signs will stop them hitting a gate across a road.

Markcheese

At least if you've decent signage, you could reasonably expect drivers to see them, you'd probably need four signs, and decent sight lines appropriate to the speed expected on the road..
(if the signs could light up as you cross, like school crossing ones all the better)
I don't know if you can block the road temporarily even with tape... But if you do make sure it's very visable, flashing lights ect, because if you follow cattle across to the close then in, a strip of white tape isn't going to be very noticeable at 100 kph... On a dull day.... While late for work/school.... And messing with phone/shouting at kids/applying make up....