'I just want a home for my children' - mum on housing list for 12 years

Poor Uncle Tom

worded wrote: »

You breed them, we will feed them

That just reminded me:

Twenty one years ago I was at the big hospital in the South East and I was smoking at the time, While outside partaking in my own slow demise I overheard three women in dressing gowns chatting about life while puffing away. The oldest one was a good bit under thirty I would say.

I heard one say: 'is that it now Carl? or will you have number five straight away?'
and the answer was: '...that's my duty done, shur I'd get nohin for any more anyway, I'll geh de schnip now..'

The attitude above is nothing new.

Poor Uncle Tom

I say free houses for passing the leaving cert and work houses for the dregs....

boardsuser1

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

I say free houses for passing the leaving cert and work houses for the dregs....

The houses are far from free.

boardsuser1

When people look through this thread do they believe this article is fair?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/state-bid-to-get-older-people-back-into-work-459188.html

endacl

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In relation to the bottom paragraph there would be uproar.

The government would be accused of attacking the poorest in society while a certain minority would say it's discrimination against their culture.

Well, in fairness, it would discriminate against the culture of 'gimme because I want'. If the parents haven't knocked this (perfectly appropriate for a toddler) tendency out of them by the time they grow up, perhaps it would be appropriate for society to provide a reality shock.

BillyBobBS

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That just reminded me:

Twenty one years ago I was at the big hospital in the South East and I was smoking at the time, While outside partaking in my own slow demise I overheard three women in dressing gowns chatting about life while puffing away. The oldest one was a good bit under thirty I would say.

I heard one say: 'is that it now Carl? or will you have number five straight away?'
and the answer was: '...that's my duty done, shur I'd get nohin for any more anyway, I'll geh de schnip now..'

The attitude above is nothing new.

Cool story bro.

doolox

The point that many council house naysayers miss is that because there has been little or no investment in local Authority housing since the 1980's and there is huge demand from the lowest paid and those with large families for housing there are more people chasing fewer houses in the private sector which is increasing rents and affecting everybody in the rental market.

A comprehensive, comparatively readily available stock of well planned, well built local authority houses would stabilise the rental sector and prevent landlords from being able to push prices upwards too much.

In order to be sustainable, the rent sector must ultimately match wage earnings of its clients or otherwise clients are dipping into savings, occupying less space with more people in "temporary" arrangements which cannot last for any length of time. As we are seeing now the development of future generations of children is being blunted and deformed by ad hoc temporary living arrangements and a chronic lack of security, privacy and personal space absolutely necessary for proper personal learning, development and growth.

Parents of such families are also not able to seek promotion or develop their careers and earning capacities as they are totally occupied with surviving in the often stressful environment faced by the homeless or precariously housed today. This is bound to have an adverse affect on their job performances and affect their fellow workers as well. The general population are affected by increased traffic, decreased reliability, increased fatigue brought on by long commutes, increased staff turnover and absences lateness etc due to people living overly far away from their workplace not being able to work effectively, nobody comes out winners in all of this.

Because of the chronic lack of affordable housing in our major cities all the people are paying more for essential services or having to do without them or make alternative arrangements.

boardsuser1

endacl wrote: »

Well, in fairness, it would discriminate against the culture of 'gimme because I want'. If the parents haven't knocked this (perfectly appropriate for a toddler) tendency out of them by the time they grow up, perhaps it would be appropriate for society to provide a reality shock.

I live in a council house, the wife works, i also have a job, we hope to buy it.

We want our children to do better than us from The outset.

On the other hand and I'm not for a second defending this, the government put measures in place that make it more attractive for many to never work.

A neighbour of mine only last week asked me how was work going, the same guy never worked a day in his life as he's a 'recovering alcoholic' and driving a fine 172 registered Ford Focus.

When I asked him is he going back to work his reply was 'never'

He has it too good on welfare and no employer will touch off a recovering alcoholic was the response.

NIMAN

How exactly would that guy afford a 172 car, just curious?

Is it a disability car?

NIMAN

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

When people look through this thread do they believe this article is fair?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/state-bid-to-get-older-people-back-into-work-459188.html

I would worry about this comment:
In an interview with the Irish Examiner, Ms Doherty said she was looking at a JobsPlus-type scheme to get people in their 60s back to work. Elderly people let go or out of work were seen as not employable, and she wants to change this.

Get people in their 60s off the live register?
What about the fit ones in their 20s and 30s?:mad:

ELM327

Minderbinder wrote: »

But politicians seriously need to grow a pair and not wait for crisis point. Maybe Leo is the man because I like his plan to reduce taxes for middle income workers.

I would start by completely eliminating child benefits for the third and above kids in all families. I would also think strongly about only giving child benefits for one child in non-contributing households or those living in council houses.

You know what.
I'm not the biggest fan of Leo personally or politically, and I am most certainly not a blueshirt.
But if any politican - including leo - had the balls to do anything about this situation and implemented any of the rational measures you've suggested below, he's (or she's, depending on who does it) got my vote for life. And I'm sure, that of many more of middle Ireland. The fabled "up before dawn" commuting classes - of which I am one - that Leo has been chasing.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The houses are far from free.

For the tax payer who has to pay for them

boardsuser1

NIMAN wrote: »

How exactly would that guy afford a 172 car, just curious?

Is it a disability car?

Nope, it's a standard Focus that is eligible for motor tax at €280 per annum.

Some would say it's the joys of the welfare state is how they can afford it.

I did try asking how he affords it, he says his dole covers it.

Wheeliebin30

NIMAN wrote: »

I would worry about this comment:
In an interview with the Irish Examiner, Ms Doherty said she was looking at a JobsPlus-type scheme to get people in their 60s back to work. Elderly people let go or out of work were seen as not employable, and she wants to change this.

Get people in their 60s off the live register?
What about the fit ones in their 20s and 30s?:mad:

What about them?

Fol20

Minderbinder wrote: »

This is very obvious but still needs to be said. Poor people having more children and educated middle and upper classes having less is a huge concern and something needs to be done to balance it out. Maybe some of the kids from non-contributing families will rise to the occasion when the state simply can't afford to keep them, along with the rising costs of pensions.

But politicians seriously need to grow a pair and not wait for crisis point. Maybe Leo is the man because I like his plan to reduce taxes for middle income workers.

I would start by completely eliminating child benefits for the third and above kids in all families. I would also think strongly about only giving child benefits for one child in non-contributing households or those living in council houses.

I think a better step would be to allow child benefit for 3+kids, but instead of it being straight up income, all child benefit is a tax credit so it forces people to go out and work to get that extra money.

boardsuser1

LexieOnRale wrote: »

For the tax payer who has to pay for them

People living in them pay rent, in my own case €140 a week.

It's a percentage of your income.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

People living in them pay rent, in my own case €140 a week.

It's a percentage of your income.

It's heavily subsidised rent.

johnnyskeleton

gctest50 wrote: »

The place needs babies though or the aging population thing will get worse


"There'll be a million over-65s in Ireland by 2031"

Middle class people arent settling down and having kids because they are working too hard, paying massive amounts of tax and not being able to afford to rent, nevermind buy a permanent place.

If the whole social welfare system could comfortably be afforded without pricing working people out of the market there would be no problem. But the way in which it impacts middle class people is subtle, thanks to the socialist partys mantra of "pay out of general taxation"

Poor Uncle Tom

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Cool story bro.

yip, true story too, Billy Bob BS.........

boardsuser1

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's heavily subsidised rent.

If they were free there would be no rent do you not agree?

They are subsidised I admit but certainly not free!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

If they were free there would be no rent do you not agree?

They are subsidised I admit but certainly not free!

They're free in situations where people don't work as the rent is paid with taxpayers coin so it's not costing the individual anything. Also I think it's bizarre that people in social housing can keep having children and go to the local authority requesting a bigger house, and expect everyone else to subsidise it

Wheeliebin30

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

If they were free there would be no rent do you not agree?

They are subsidised I admit but certainly not free!

Free for people who contribute nothing to the pot.

Cina

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Cool story bro.

Anyone who says "Cool story bro" is in fact, not cool.

NIMAN

You pay €560 per month in rent in a subsidised situation?

Seems a lot. You must be earning a good wage if its a percentage of your income?

Roger Hassenforder

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

On the other hand and I'm not for a second defending this, the government put measures in place that make it more attractive for many to never work.

...too good on welfare.

This to me is the issue. No one should be better off on welfare than if they were working. Benifets shouldn't be a "choice"

Lollipops23

A relative of mine is 16 and pregnant. She's already planning on dropping out of school and is gleefully posting scan photos on social media, and behaving like she believes the child is a doll.

I can already see her entire life in front of me. She'll sit under the kid, take every grant going (with no intention of working) and get herself on the housing list.

I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong. But I already know I'm not.

NIMAN

Lollipops23 wrote: »

A relative of mine is 16 and pregnant. She's already planning on dropping out of school and is gleefully posting scan photos on social media, and behaving like she believes the child is a doll.

I can already see her entire life in front of me. She'll sit under the kid, take every grant going (with no intention of working) and get herself on the housing list.

I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong. But I already know I'm not.

Well surely the parents can advise her that this wouldn't be the best course of action.

Unless of course they think that it is.

Edit: could the father have committed a criminal offence. Is it legal to get a 16 yr old pregnant?

weldoninhio

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

That just reminded me:

Twenty one years ago I was at the big hospital in the South East and I was smoking at the time, While outside partaking in my own slow demise I overheard three women in dressing gowns chatting about life while puffing away. The oldest one was a good bit under thirty I would say.

I heard one say: 'is that it now Carl? or will you have number five straight away?'
and the answer was: '...that's my duty done, shur I'd get nohin for any more anyway, I'll geh de schnip now..'

The attitude above is nothing new.

So it was 3 WOMEN in dressing gowns, one's name was Carl? and a WOMAN said she was getting the snip??

Mr. teddywinkles

Find it hilarious here that people are asking people on council housing list to move to the middle of nowhere in ghost estates and then magically find a real paying permanent job there too. The realism on boards is fooking on par with that mad egit in North Korea.

Roger Hassenforder

Lollipops23 wrote: »

A relative of mine is 16 and pregnant. She's already planning on dropping out of school and is gleefully posting scan photos on social media, and behaving like she believes the child is a doll.

I can already see her entire life in front of me. She'll sit under the kid, take every grant going (with no intention of working) and get herself on the housing list.

I would love nothing more than to be proved wrong. But I already know I'm not.

Prepare not to be proven wrong I reckon, and the cycle just continues...
There's an argument for taking that child into care until the other child finishes her education and gets a job. I'd sooner pay for a crèche that allows her work, than a house for her to do fcuk all in except reproduce.

Notwithstanding the horrors that some young mothers faced at the hands of various arms of the state/church, but I still remember the days a teenage pregnancy wasn't to be celebrated

rainbow kirby

NIMAN wrote: »

Edit: could the father have committed a criminal offence. Is it legal to get a 16 yr old pregnant?

Age of consent in Ireland is 17 with no exceptions for a partner close in age so it could be considered statutory rape.

Roger Hassenforder

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Find it hilarious here that people are asking people on council housing list to move to the middle of nowhere in ghost estates and then magically find a real paying permanent job there too. The realism on boards is fooking on par with that mad egit in North Korea.

Aye, much better and more fair to let the poor people actually paying for the fcukers who have no intention of ever working a day, to commute 100km round trips from the middle of nowhere to work (often from said ghost estates) passing them every morning and the fcukers still in their beds, from a small semi-D because that's all they can afford, arriving home exhausted.
This is the realism many face.

I love Sean nos

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

the same guy never worked a day in his life as he's a 'recovering alcoholic' and driving a fine 172 registered Ford Focus.

The cheapest Ford Focus I can find on the Ford pricelist is €22,645. The dole is less than €10k a year. Either this chap has savings, some fool gave him credit (unlikely) or someone else has funded/is funding it.

You'd have a tough time running a car on the dole I would think, never mind buying one.

boardsuser1

LexieOnRale wrote: »

They're free in situations where people don't work as the rent is paid with taxpayers coin so it's not costing the individual anything. Also I think it's bizarre that people in social housing can keep having children and go to the local authority requesting a bigger house, and expect everyone else to subsidise it

Having a go there at me i see :rolleyes:

boardsuser1

NIMAN wrote: »

You pay €560 per month in rent in a subsidised situation?

Seems a lot. You must be earning a good wage if its a percentage of your income?

It's a combined income of me and herself.

She gets far more than me.

ELM327

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Aye, much better and more fair to let the poor people actually paying for the fcukers who have no intention of ever working a day, to commute 100km round trips from the middle of nowhere to work (often from said ghost estates) passing them every morning and the fcukers still in their beds, from a small semi-D because that's all they can afford, arriving home exhausted.
This is the realism many face.

Middle ireland.
Those paying over 50% tax on earnings over 34k, meaning for every euro I earn over 34k the government gets approx 51-52 cents.
To subsidise these free houses and fake rents and bubble lives where there is no sense of saving for stuff, paying for things yourself, and the stress associated with little decisions like the week before payday you need to go to the doctor but can't afford the 50 quid as you had to pay other bills last week.

The neuveaux riche on the lifelong dole and free house brigade get free doctors visits.

boardsuser1

I love Sean nos wrote: »

The cheapest Ford Focus I can find on the Ford pricelist is €22,645. The dole is less than €10k a year. Either this chap has savings, some fool gave him credit (unlikely) or someone else has funded/is funding it.

You'd have a tough time running a car on the dole I would think, never mind buying one.

He traded in a 132 Focus against it and is in the local credit union.

ELM327

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Having a go there at me i see :rolleyes:

I don't think it's having a go, it's a general frustration felt by middle ireland, as we are often forced to forgo having a child due to cost, yet our high taxation pays for the free houses and ability of one (or both) parents to stay at home, enjoying a life of leisure at the expense of those who can't afford said standards. It's having a go at a system that is open to abuse.

In what world is that equitable or fair? I'll tell you. Socialist Ireland 2017, that's where.

ELM327

I love Sean nos wrote: »

The cheapest Ford Focus I can find on the Ford pricelist is €22,645. The dole is less than €10k a year. Either this chap has savings, some fool gave him credit (unlikely) or someone else has funded/is funding it.

You'd have a tough time running a car on the dole I would think, never mind buying one.

Credit most likely.
PCP deals make a new car easy even for those on lower "incomes", and there are little to no checks done beforehand as PCP is not a regulated form of finance.

boardsuser1

ELM327 wrote: »

I don't think it's having a go, it's a general frustration felt by middle ireland, as we are often forced to forgo having a child due to cost, yet our high taxation pays for the free houses and ability of one (or both) parents to stay at home, enjoying a life of leisure at the expense of those who can't afford said standards.
In what world is that equitable or fair? I'll tell you. Socialist Ireland 2017, that's where.

I've documented my situation here and on another thread previously.

We are both in employment, me in and out on health grounds, the wife is stable with almost 11 years service.

I am having to reskill to do something that won't be an issue with the medical condition i have.

Just because we are council tenants and have a few kids doesn't make us freeloaders, we are tax payers like most decent people here.

I am not repeating myself on the whole mortgage issue.

boardsuser1

ELM327 wrote: »

Credit most likely.
PCP deals make a new car easy even for those on lower "incomes", and there are little to no checks done beforehand as PCP is not a regulated form of finance.

It's not PCP, i asked him about that pretending i was interested in a PCP deal.

The car is his outright, free of finance.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

ELM327 wrote: »

Credit most likely.
PCP deals make a new car easy even for those on lower "incomes", and there are little to no checks done beforehand as PCP is not a regulated form of finance.

Off topic but I was looking to change my car last year and was going to buy the Renault kadjar and the sales guy was pushing this pcp thing on me. I was lucky that last year I didn't need finance but the sales guy was all for this pcp thing, i.e. Why pay outright when you don't have to? It was very strange. I was all but convinced I was buying it going in and completely turned off leaving

Mr. teddywinkles

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Aye, much better and more fair to let the poor people actually paying for the fcukers who have no intention of ever working a day, to commute 100km round trips from the middle of nowhere to work (often from said ghost estates) passing them every morning and the fcukers still in their beds, from a small semi-D because that's all they can afford, arriving home exhausted.
This is the realism many face.

So now infrastructure and job prospects in various parts of the country,the blame should clearly fall on the people on the housing list.
Iv worked all my life and have had ****e commutes every job Iv been in.
But I definitely would not expect someone to commute from the middle of nowhere for more than likely min wage (which let's face it according to most of the views on here these people are only worth) and pay for transport costs out of that every week.
I think the stresses of modern living is getting to people on here most of which is caused by poor government polices over the years.
Oh look let's blame the poor instead of looking up the line. I think everyone should work yes but it's the way this country is setup now that's the problem not just the welfare system.

NIMAN

ELM327 wrote: »

The neuveaux riche on the lifelong dole and free house brigade get free doctors visits.

And they use them for the slightest little sniffle or ache, thus putting the health service under unnecessary pressure and wasting more money.

Or they need to keep visiting the GP to keep telling them how depressed they are and how they can't face working due to this depression......

I have always said that the unemployed should face a charge to visit the GP, even if its a minimal amount like €5 or €10. It would cut down all this nonsense.

Roger Hassenforder

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So now infrastructure and job prospects in various parts of the country,the blame should clearly fall on the people on the housing list.
Iv worked all my life and have had ****e commutes every job Iv been in.
But I definitely would not expect someone to commute from the middle of nowhere for more than likely min wage (which let's face it according to most of the views on here these people are only worth) and pay for transport costs out of that every week.
I think the stresses of modern living is getting to people on here most of which is caused by poor government polices over the years.
Oh look let's blame the poor instead of looking up the line. I think everyone should work yes but it's the way this country is setup now that's the problem not just the welfare system.

i think we're talking about those who have no intention of ever working , because life is better on benifets, and in some instances they having a better quality of life than those actually paying for them.

By the time middle Ireland pays his mortgage, bills, diesel there's little very left in the pot. Sick kid? Might have to wait a day or two to see if they weather it, as they might not have the €50. Want another kid? Though, that semiD in Gorey isn't big enough.

I don't expect anyone to have to commute hours, because they can't afford to live near where they work!
Reality though..,

boardsuser1

The UK have this problem as well.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-11-claiming-27k-benefits-6732904

BillyBobBS

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

i think we're talking about those who have no intention of ever working , because life is better on benifets, and in some instances they having a better quality of life than those actually paying for them.

By the time middle Ireland pays his mortgage, bills, diesel there's little very left in the pot. Sick kid? Might have to wait a day or two to see if they weather it, as they might not have the €50. Want another kid? Though, that semiD in Gorey isn't big enough.

I don't expect anyone to have to commute hours, because they can't afford to live near where they work!
Reality though..,

Of course but it's small percentage of those in social housing who never have any intention of working.

boardsuser1

Meanwhile in Ireland.............

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/families-who-are-4000-better-off-on-dole-than-at-work-29723996.html

BillyBobBS

LexieOnRale wrote: »

For the tax payer who has to pay for them

The tenant pays rent, they are not free.

Jawgap

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Meanwhile in Ireland.............

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/families-who-are-4000-better-off-on-dole-than-at-work-29723996.html

That's a 4 year old article.

I'm all for bashing the genuine spinners, but is there any more up to date data on which to base a rant?