'I just want a home for my children' - mum on housing list for 12 years

Crea

BillyBobBS wrote: »

You do know that it's a minority of people in social housing who don't work? Social housing isn't just for people on welfare.

Do you have figure for this because I ,for one, am dubious.

NIMAN

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Agree 100%. If you haven't worked in years, are of working age and are in social housing then be prepared to live in ballygobackwards. I don't think there is a person who would disagree with that.

Unfortunately no politician has the balls to advocate moving long term unemployed 30-somethings from Dublin to the Midlands.

Roger Hassenforder

JupiterKid wrote: »

Any advanced society has social protections. Otherwise you get extreme deprivation and all the ills that result from this. Yes, the system is abused by some but from some of the opinions expressed on here infer that everyone who accessed SW was a feckless scrounger.

And rightly so.
But these social protections in place should be a last resort, not a career choice.
I doubt anyone would see genuine hardship cases suffer unduly, where someone is genuinely unable to work.
It's those pulling the proverbial that's the issue.

Roger Hassenforder

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately no politician has the balls to advocate moving long term unemployed 30-somethings from Dublin to the Midlands.

Might be good for football!

Effects

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I'd say it's very rare to find a corpo house with two bathrooms.

Not really. I rewired an old corpo house back in 2006 around Blanchardstown somewhere and it had two bathrooms, one upstairs and a smaller one downstairs.

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

not financially viable for everybody unfortunately.

Quite simply, if a man who left school at 12, worked as a porter with a wife who worked as a cook can get themselves into a position where they can buy a house in 1960s Ireland then it is viable for just about anyone given the education, work and travel opportunities that abound nowadays.

end of the road wrote: »

the system does allow the councils to do the relevant checks for changes of circumstance, meaning they can up the rent if those circumstances meet the criteria.

They rarely, if ever up a rent......and even if they do, the tenant can just not pay without any fear of consequence.

That's why at any given time the Dublin local authorities carry about €30 million in rent arrears with about one quarter of tenancies in arrears of 12 weeks rent or more.

I wonder how much we'd have for social housing if tenants paid a fair, not necessarily market, rent and, you know, actually paid when they were supposed to?

end of the road

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

not free to them. there are no free houses in ireland.

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

it would. criminality. meaning we end up paying a hell of a lot more.

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Agree 100%. If you haven't worked in years, are of working age and are in social housing then be prepared to live in ballygobackwards. I don't think there is a person who would disagree with that.

by all means if the necessary resources are installed there to deal with them and you are willing to pay for that. it's going to cost us a hell of a lot though.

end of the road

NIMAN wrote: »

Unfortunately no politician has the balls to advocate moving long term unemployed 30-somethings from Dublin to the Midlands.

they have the balls to do it but i'd imagine social cleansing is against international law thankfully and correctly. it would also cost billions as we would need to implement all sorts of resources to deal with them.

Jawgap wrote: »

Quite simply, if a man who left school at 12, worked as a porter with a wife who worked as a cook can get themselves into a position where they can buy a house in 1960s Ireland then it is viable for just about anyone given the education, work and travel opportunities that abound nowadays.

unfortunately not. times have changed and the cost of living has risen hugely since the 1960s. we are living in different times now and some of it isn't for the better, but we are where we are.

Jawgap wrote: »

They rarely, if ever up a rent......and even if they do, the tenant can just not pay without any fear of consequence.

That's why at any given time the Dublin local authorities carry about €30 million in rent arrears with about one quarter of tenancies in arrears of 12 weeks rent or more.

I wonder how much we'd have for social housing if tenants paid a fair, not necessarily market, rent and, you know, actually paid when they were supposed to?

they pay rent based on their income which is the fairist way for the service given the people involved are for the most part not high earners. paying anything near a market rent or a "fair" rent isn't financially viable. the councils have avenues open to them to deal with those who are not paying their rent, but i'd imagine they have to balance the costs of those avenues against the gains and other potential costs once they have used those avenues. i don't like it either but i can see where the councils may be coming from.

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

they have the balls to do it but i'd imagine social cleansing is against international law thankfully and correctly. it would also cost billions as we would need to implement all sorts of resources to deal with them.



unfortunately not. times have changed and the cost of living has risen hugely since the 1960s. we are living in different times now and some of it isn't for the better, but we are where we are.

Yes, well done on missing the entirety of the point. Cost of living is up, so are salaries. Educational opportunities are pretty much universal. So are opportunities for enterprise......my first part-time job was in a bar, my teenage kids don't have part-time jobs, they (and two of their mates) have organised a tidy little business for themselves providing web design services to SMEs etc.

end of the road wrote: »

they pay rent based on their income which is the fairist way for the service given the people involved are for the most part not high earners. paying anything near a market rent or a "fair" rent isn't financially viable. the councils have avenues open to them to deal with those who are not paying their rent, but i'd imagine they have to balance the costs of those avenues against the gains and other potential costs once they have used those avenues. i don't like it either but i can see where the councils may be coming from.

Rent is assessed on the basis of income, it is rarely reviewed and even if it is tenants often don't pay. And I'd fully support rent being assessed as a fair proportion of income, without any reference to the market.

However, the arrears data speaks for itself. Frankly, if someone won't pay what is a socially equitable rent then they should be evicted and treated as having made themselves intentionally homeless. The home can then be used to house someone who might value it more......the homelessness stats won't be impacted, and once people perceive there is a consequence for being a delinquent tenant maybe arrears will drop bringing more money into the LAs' social housing budgets......

......or we could just let current arrangements continue and hope people's consciences will get to them.

ELM327

end of the road wrote: »

they have the balls to do it but i'd imagine social cleansing is against international law thankfully and correctly. it would also cost billions as we would need to implement all sorts of resources to deal with them.

Since when is living within your means considered social cleansing?
What international law particularly?

LollipopJimmy

Going back to the OP, it seems the welfare system is being abused by people like this woman. No interest in ever working a day and feels handouts from the state should be her birthright.

The mindset is mad, when my father passed away my mother had all of these welfare experts tell her what she was 'entitled' to even though I had moved back home to help out - it suited both of us at the time, she was being told to tell welfare that she was living alone, fearful of isolation (we live in Dublin City Centre) and she'd get a bus pass, living alone allowance etc... Thankfully she had the cop on to do her own thing. But people were so quick to be pushing her along the path of fleecing the welfare system.

On the other hand I am a 30something single male, I have a small mortgage and get bugger all tax relief on it, I get a few hundred back for my college fees, I earn a decent wage but it's soul destroying looking at what I pay out in taxes compared to colleagues who are married or have children. One of my colleagues has a child that he sees once a week and what he saves in tax more than covers the maintenance he pays. Admittedly he's a cretin and should be giving more time and money to his child but the fact that he saves more in tax than he pays out in the court ordered maintenance is mind boggling.

.......

This post has been deleted.

I love Sean nos

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You have no idea.

BillyBobBS

Jawgap wrote: »

Quite simply, if a man who left school at 12, worked as a porter with a wife who worked as a cook can get themselves into a position where they can buy a house in 1960s Ireland then it is viable for just about anyone given the education, work and travel opportunities that abound nowadays.




They rarely, if ever up a rent......and even if they do, the tenant can just not pay without any fear of consequence.

That's why at any given time the Dublin local authorities carry about €30 million in rent arrears with about one quarter of tenancies in arrears of 12 weeks rent or more.

I wonder how much we'd have for social housing if tenants paid a fair, not necessarily market, rent and, you know, actually paid when they were supposed to?

Well you know employers would have to stop paying peanuts and start paying a proper wage, then you know people could afford a rent increase. You know.

BillyBobBS

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So you agree that rent isn't free.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Effects

Jawgap wrote: »

Quite simply, if a man who left school at 12, worked as a porter with a wife who worked as a cook can get themselves into a position where they can buy a house in 1960s Ireland then it is viable for just about anyone given the education, work and travel opportunities that abound nowadays.

You can't compare the 1960s and 2017 like that.

Galwayguy35

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Find it hilarious here that people are asking people on council housing list to move to the middle of nowhere in ghost estates and then magically find a real paying permanent job there too. The realism on boards is fooking on par with that mad egit in North Korea.

What would be wrong with people on the housing list in Dublin moving to surrounding counties like Meath and Kildare if houses are available there?

That's not the middle of nowhere.

Seems like they want cheap houses in the most expensive city in the country and will sit it out in hotel rooms for free until they get their way.

ELM327

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What would be wrong with people on the housing list in Dublin moving to surrounding counties like Meath and Kildare if houses are available there?

That's not the middle of nowhere.

Seems like they want cheap houses in the most expensive city in the country and will sit it out in hotel rooms for free until they get their way.

Like the working squeezed middle have to do.

spookwoman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What would be wrong with people on the housing list in Dublin moving to surrounding counties like Meath and Kildare if houses are available there?

That's not the middle of nowhere.

Seems like they want cheap houses in the most expensive city in the country and will sit it out in hotel rooms for free until they get their way.

Especially if they are not working

partyguinness

Posters have mentioned the absence of a father but I guarantee you he or they or whatever live with her most days of the week...unofficially. They know how to work the system.

In England, she would be called 'pram faced' i.e. the type of women you see pushing prams around Council estates and my God she is pram faced.

partyguinness

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What would be wrong with people on the housing list in Dublin moving to surrounding counties like Meath and Kildare if houses are available there?

That's not the middle of nowhere.

Seems like they want cheap houses in the most expensive city in the country and will sit it out in hotel rooms for free until they get their way.

They want a house and they are offered a perfectly good house.

What...should we wipe her arse for her too maybe the 100 inch TV is not big enough either. Let Mr Taxpayer sort that out too.

Sincerely doubt she has any interest in working anyway.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What would be wrong with people on the housing list in Dublin moving to surrounding counties like Meath and Kildare if houses are available there?

That's not the middle of nowhere.

Seems like they want cheap houses in the most expensive city in the country and will sit it out in hotel rooms for free until they get their way.

it's not cost effective for the tax payer to house them in those places as it would require resources or even extra resources which will cost us more long term then any benefits of moving them there.

Pappacharlie

I agree 100% with most of the opinions expressed here. When is some politician going to stand up and say it as it is. The answer to that question is NEVER! because they would be hung drawn and quartered by the Politically Correct Brigade.

.......

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I genuinely believe if you set a time limit for benefits of 5 years, the majority of these lifers would magically find work.

I love Sean nos

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

An offie and a cigarette machine.

partyguinness

People have mentioned that she is 'abusing' the system. But is she really?

It seems that the 'system' is built for people like her and the vast majority of people in her situation have stories that are 99% identical

It appears to me that the system makes it very easy to adopt this lifestyle and nothing is done to reign it in.

.......

This post has been deleted.

end of the road

Pappacharlie wrote: »

I agree 100% with most of the opinions expressed here. When is some politician going to stand up and say it as it is. The answer to that question is NEVER! because they would be hung drawn and quartered by the Politically Correct Brigade.

there is no such recognised brigade of the name "the Politically Correct brigade" in any of the world's militaries.

ELM327 wrote: »

I genuinely believe if you set a time limit for benefits of 5 years, the majority of these lifers would magically find work.

no they wouldn't. they don't want to work, employers don't want them working for them and who could blame them.

I love Sean nos

Pappacharlie wrote: »

Politically Correct Brigade.

Do they wear swanky uniforms?

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

it's not cost effective for the tax payer to house them in those places as it would require resources or even extra resources which will cost us more long term then any benefits of moving them there.

Well I've been in Naas quite a few times and Athy also and they will have all the "resources" anyone will ever need.

And it's BS to suggest it would cost more to house them there rather than in Dublin.

Galwayguy35

partyguinness wrote: »

People have mentioned that she is 'abusing' the system. But is she really?

It seems that the 'system' is built for people like her and the vast majority of people in her situation have stories that are 99% identical

It appears to me that the system makes it very easy to adopt this lifestyle and nothing is done to reign it in.

Watch Prime Time on budget night, most of the audience will he whinging welfare increases (and there's no doubt there will be increases) aren't enough.

And of course a hard left ballbag will be on the panel encouraging them all the way because it means he/she will be elected when election time comes.

dan1895

end of the road wrote: »

there is no such recognised brigade of the name "the Politically Correct brigade" in any of the world's militaries.

For the love of crumb cake please stop with this nonsense. Pulling people up on the use of a phrase while ignoring anyone who makes valid points contradictory to your own.

partyguinness

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Watch Prime Time on budget night, most of the audience will he whinging welfare increases (and there's no doubt there will be increases) aren't enough.

And of course a hard left ballbag will be on the panel encouraging them all the way because it means he/she will be elected when election time comes.

Indeed.

But we have accept that there is a balance to be struck and what type of society we want.

Do we accept that our social welfare system is a good thing and people who abuse it are the minority and a small price to pay?

Ireland by and large is a good a very good place to live. Yes yes I know it has plenty of faults in all areas and sure there is no doubt better run countries. But I have lived in the US and currently in England and I sure as hell know where I would rather be if I am down on my luck.

Do we want to double down on the poor, uneducated, career multi generational benefit scroungers? This is happening in the UK everyday and trust me it ain't pretty. There are huge swathes of and I will use the word ghettos full of benefit scroungers and low lives. Drug and alcohol infested sink estate and it is getting worse. Thousands and thousands of people are unemployable.

I sure as hell do not want to Ireland going down that path.

So this woman. Do we help her and provide a safe upbringing for her children in the hope that they break the cycle. Hope that they better themselves.

Or do we hammer her into the ground by reducing benefits etc etc and make damn sure her kids continue the cycle?

That is the conundrum people.

Jawgap

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Well you know employers would have to stop paying peanuts and start paying a proper wage, then you know people could afford a rent increase. You know.

Actually no.

We could just agree what a decent income is and provide it to those capable of working who do so by supplementing their wages.

Anyone not prepared to work who is capable of doing so gets subsistence SW payments once they've been unemployed for 6 months or more.

Reserve the social housing in and around Dublin for people who are working - the city needs them.

The state should be required to provide decent housing for all its citizens, but unless you are economically contributing then there's no real reason for you tie up valuable social housing close to centres of economic activity. And forget about arguments about family......lots of PAYE workers servicing mortgages are forced to live away from family, so I'm not sure why someone not contributing to the system should have any weight attached to the family argument when their housing needs are being met out of the public purse.

wexandproud

[QUOTE=end of the road;104714359



no they wouldn't. they don't want to work, employers don't want them working for them and who could blame them.[/QUOTE]

its an awful pity it has taken you till now to realize this , you spend the whole discussion making stupid remarks about other peoples choice of phrase when you know full well what they mean . However at least after 500 odd post you admit that their are people out there who don't want to be employed and are , due to their attitude unemployable
Maybe now you will realize that these are the spongers that most people on here including myself are on about and have no sympathy for and not the genuine people who need a dig out

boardsuser1

When is budget day?

animaal

end of the road wrote: »

all systems are open to abuse. we need resources to deal with that but they may cost more then the abuse costs. it's about balancing the costs unfortunately.

Would you feel the same about abuse at the other end of the spectrum? I.e. we can't go after Megacorp X for taxes underpaid, because of the message it will send to other potential investors. It "may cost more then the abuse costs. it's about balancing the costs unfortunately"

Or maybe justice needs to be seen to be done in both cases.

Imagine the amount of corruption we'd have if there was a policy of not dealing with abuse?

Jawgap

Effects wrote: »

You can't compare the 1960s and 2017 like that.

Of course you can. The earning potential of a kid in Ireland now is huge compared to what it was. Educational opportunity is massive - if people don't avail of it, then they bear some (by no means total) responsibility for the consequences.

.......

This post has been deleted.

boardsuser1

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Have you ever considered running for Dail Eireann or your local council?

.......

This post has been deleted.

boardsuser1

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Us truckers work long hours also.

Loads of people in your position have held onto their jobs and successfully run for one or the other.

Micheal Martin comes to mind.

partyguinness

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think you may mean '..have the ability to get off their asses and support..' rather than 'afford'.

I am all up for that don't get me wrong. We are all singing from the same page. I don't like getting out to work every morning to see the neighbours with the curtains still drawn and will never get dressed that day or the fact I see them smoking outside the local pub every time I drive past.

Alcohol and cigarette that my tax money has paid for and then the mother who has never worked had chronic liver disease and used up the NHS. Again my taxes are paying for

My self assessment tax bill this January is for nearly £33k. I have never been to the doctor in 10 years over here or taken social welfare of any description and the cheeky Brexit bastards class me an emigrant bleeding public system- sorry different rant.

But it is a big problem on how we solved it without turning the country to **** like in England- where you are have obscenely rich living side by side with obscenely poor and an entrenched class system that encourages this extreme. Not so much an issue in Ireland thankfully and hopefully it will stay that way.

.......

This post has been deleted.

partyguinness

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I stand corrected.

How did that happen? Was it inherited from parents?

.......

This post has been deleted.

boardsuser1

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Is this what you want in Ireland?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/09/council-tenants-lose-lifetime-right-to-live-in-property

.......

This post has been deleted.