Footballer of the Year

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Funny enough, this doesn't really hold true. Two dozen odd guys get all Ireland medals every year. Some of them never kick a ball. Only one gets the POTY though, and nobody else can win it for you.

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Did they even have POTY back then? I don't know, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which Dublin players won All-Stars in 1976 but I would know the All-Ireland team.

I do remember in 2010 some people getting excited about Bernard Brogan winning POTY, but I, like most Dubs, didn't give a toss because there was no All-Ireland.

Some of the candidates being put forward this year are ridiculous, including one player who lost his team a Connacht semi-final by being stupidly sent off.

MayoAreMagic

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

This Dublin team, Real Madrid and Barcelona in La Liga,Kilkenny in the 00's etc etc etc are examples of teams who are too good to be challenged in most matches.

Real Madrid and Barcelona in la liga... Wouldn't they be in competition with each other?
Dublin - so not an example of it happening elsewhere then
Kilkenny hurlers - one example, from Ireland, in a relatively niche sport, where the county in question concentrate on one sport, while their competitors don't.
These are not examples of 'great teams in all sports'...

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Cluxton has been excellent at commanding his area over the years better than 90% of keepers in the country.

Examples?

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

If Dublin win the all ireland I wouldn't mind seeing him win footballer of teh year as a Ryans Giggs style lifetime achievement award.

That is fair enough. you are entitled to have your own personal wishes. It doesn't justify it actually happening though. Although you have admitted that it would be a token gesture type thing, which is what I was saying too. So we agree.

Copper_pipe

Few rumours going around that Cluxton will retire if they win. A Cert for FOTY if that’s the case

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Real Madrid and Barcelona in la liga... Wouldn't they be in competition with each other?
Dublin - so not an example of it happening elsewhere then
Kilkenny hurlers - one example, from Ireland, in a relatively niche sport, where the county in question concentrate on one sport, while their competitors don't.
These are not examples of 'great teams in all sports'...



Examples?

The current Bayern Munich team in the Bundesliga.

The Real Madrid team that won six European Cups in a row.

Celtic in Scotland.

All teams that are too good for their competitors. Dublin are right up there.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Bernard Brogan won it in 2010 - Id imagine you know this. Can you name everyone who got a medal of the AI winners from 2010 though? I certainly cant.

Of course every player want to win an AI. But they all want to win POTY too. There are around 24 less of those given out every year and you cant win one by sitting on the bench all year... Pound for pound it is definitely harder to win for a player than the AI. What you remember is really beside the point.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

The current Bayern Munich team in the Bundesliga.

The Real Madrid team that won six European Cups in a row.

Celtic in Scotland.

All teams that are too good for their competitors. Dublin are right up there.

The Real team that was funded by the government? Hardly a good road to be taking in comparisons with the dubs...

The other two might have dominated their domestic leagues, but only when the league has been average to poor. Bayern have won 2 CL's since the 70s so they havent dominated world football. That is like saying galway dominated gaelic football because they won well in division 2. As for celtic, come off it.

You are missing the bigger picture though. This is supposed to be commonplace, yet you are struggling to get one good example... Id consider it the exception rather than the rule.

Im not trying to take the thread down this read, so if you just desist with the bad examples we can move on. Cluxton might retire, what do you think about that?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Bernard Brogan won it in 2010 - Id imagine you know this. Can you name everyone who got a medal of the AI winners from 2010 though? I certainly cant.

Of course every player want to win an AI. But they all want to win POTY too. There are around 24 less of those given out every year and you cant win one by sitting on the bench all year... Pound for pound it is definitely harder to win for a player than the AI. What you remember is really beside the point.

You should read to the end of my post!!!!!! And why would I care about the AI winners from 2010 - they weren't Dublin.

blanch152 wrote: »

You don't get it.

I remember players like Jimmy Keaveney, Bobby Doyle, Brian Mullins, David Hickey, Robbie Kelleher, Tommy Drumm, Paddy Cullen etc. because they won All-Irelands, not because they won POTY.

Did they even have POTY back then? I don't know, but I wouldn't be able to tell you which Dublin players won All-Stars in 1976 but I would know the All-Ireland team.

I do remember in 2010 some people getting excited about Bernard Brogan winning POTY, but I, like most Dubs, didn't give a toss because there was no All-Ireland.

Some of the candidates being put forward this year are ridiculous, including one player who lost his team a Connacht semi-final by being stupidly sent off.

Look I know you need to put Lee Keegan's achievement of winning the POTY last year ahead of all the Dublin players winning an All-Ireland but I can tell you that Keegan would swap 10 POTYs for one All-Ireland medal won sitting on the bench.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

You should read to the end of my post!!!!!! And why would I care about the AI winners from 2010 - they weren't Dublin.

I did read it. The point about naming the players doesn't seem to be registering with you.

blanch152 wrote: »

Look I know you need to put Lee Keegan's achievement of winning the POTY last year ahead of all the Dublin players winning an All-Ireland but I can tell you that Keegan would swap 10 POTYs for one All-Ireland medal won sitting on the bench.

Therein lies your problem an many of these topics - too parochial a viewpoint to have a proper discussion. It isn't about keegan or any other poty. It is about the nature of the award itself versus an all Ireland. Stop thinking of everything in terms of Dublin.

Gael85

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The Real team that was funded by the government? Hardly a good road to be taking in comparisons with the dubs...

The other two might have dominated their domestic leagues, but only when the league has been average to poor. Bayern have won 2 CL's since the 70s so they havent dominated world football. That is like saying galway dominated gaelic football because they won well in division 2. As for celtic, come off it.

You are missing the bigger picture though. This is supposed to be commonplace, yet you are struggling to get one good example... Id consider it the exception rather than the rule.

Im not trying to take the thread down this read, so if you just desist with the bad examples we can move on. Cluxton might retire, what do you think about that?

What county are you from?

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I did read it. The point about naming the players doesn't seem to be registering with you.




Therein lies your problem an many of these topics - too parochial a viewpoint to have a proper discussion. It isn't about keegan or any other poty. It is about the nature of the award itself versus an all Ireland. Stop thinking of everything in terms of Dublin.

But my point goes to the heart of your issue. No player would put an POTY award ahead of an All-Ireland medal. Do you think Bernard Brogan will be taking out his POTY award in twenty years time and saying look at this? Or will he take out his All-Ireland medals.

It is a nice little bauble, but no more than an All-Star it is only a consolation to someone who has lost an All-Ireland and a bit of icing on the substantial cake to someone who has won one, then POTY has a similar place. Sometimes, like last year's All-Star for Clarke, these awards are given in sympathy to someone who lost.

It is probably some consolation too to fans of losing All-Ireland teams that at least their man won POTY. I know what most would prefer.

castletownman

A Dublin fan claiming that they don't care or remember who won previous POTY awards were probably up in arms when Dermo was overlooked

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

But my point goes to the heart of your issue. No player would put an POTY award ahead of an All-Ireland medal. Do you think Bernard Brogan will be taking out his POTY award in twenty years time and saying look at this? Or will he take out his All-Ireland medals.

The point isn't about which will guys be looking at in 20 years, the point is about which is harder to win. It is unquestionable that it is harder to win the POTY. End of story.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a nice little bauble, but no more than an All-Star it is only a consolation to someone who has lost an All-Ireland and a bit of icing on the substantial cake to someone who has won one, then POTY has a similar place. Sometimes, like last year's All-Star for Clarke, these awards are given in sympathy to someone who lost.

It is probably some consolation too to fans of losing All-Ireland teams that at least their man won POTY. I know what most would prefer.

Actually no, it is the award, voted by your peers, as the outstanding player in the entire game for that year. That is actually a massive honour. Plenty of relatively average inter-county players have all Irelands, the same cant be said of the POTY award.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The point isn't about which will guys be looking at in 20 years, the point is about which is harder to win. It is unquestionable that it is harder to win the POTY. End of story.




Actually no, it is the award, voted by your peers, as the outstanding player in the entire game for that year. That is actually a massive honour. Plenty of relatively average inter-county players have all Irelands, the same cant be said of the POTY award.

What a load of rubbish. The difficulty of winning something has no relation to its importance or its status. For soccer players, it is much more difficult statistically to achieve legend status on FIFA computer games than it is to win a World Cup medal, so according to your logic, becoming a legend on FIFA is more important.

Look, POTY is a nice debate on message boards and All-Stars too, they're the same. Well, they also have a nice meal out for the winners and used to have matches abroad as well. However, they are nothing compared to an All-Ireland win.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. The difficulty of winning something has no relation to its importance or its status. For soccer players, it is much more difficult statistically to achieve legend status on FIFA computer games than it is to win a World Cup medal, so according to your logic, becoming a legend on FIFA is more important.

Look, POTY is a nice debate on message boards and All-Stars too, they're the same. Well, they also have a nice meal out for the winners and used to have matches abroad as well. However, they are nothing compared to an All-Ireland win.

Fifa games... While deliberately ignoring the highly prestigious balon dor...
Then trying to shoe-horn all stars in again despite them working off a completely different system...
Sad stuff.
Poty is harder to win man. Get over it

keeponhurling

It's an interesting one, with no clear favourite going into the final.

For Mayo I think Aidan O'Shea has been their best performer, with Moran and Boyle close by.

For Dublin probably it had been too easy so their backs could never stand out. I'd say Kilkenny or O'Callaghan are big contenders. Not sure about Cluxton really , has he done enough.

Paul Geaney surely is in the running. He was been class, and don't forget Kerry won the league final too. He scored 8 points in the final, 4 from play.

washman3

keeponhurling wrote: »

It's an interesting one, with no clear favourite going into the final.

For Mayo I think Aidan O'Shea has been their best performer, with Moran and Boyle close by.

For Dublin probably it had been too easy so their backs could never stand out. I'd say Kilkenny or O'Callaghan are big contenders. Not sure about Cluxton really , has he done enough.

Paul Geaney surely is in the running. He was been class, and don't forget Kerry won the league final too. He scored 8 points in the final, 4 from play.

In the earlier games Keegan was head and shoulders above any other Mayo player. Roscommon would have won the first game had it not been for him, simple as. Then came his injury and he has been hampered for the last 2 games. Boyle has excelled when the going got tough, a real standout player.
Moran is in the form of his life. Many people forget the displays of keeper Clarke, he has been immense, as has the most under-rated player on the team, Jason Doherty. Probable the most honest player in football at the moment. All of these players would be well ahead of O'Shea IMO, even his brother Seamus, a totally honest player too. But Aidan is a 'media darling' and his buddies in there will always push for him.
For me its down to Boyle,Moran,Clarke,Callaghan,Cluxton,Kilkenny and Geaney.
With Boyle out in front at this point in time.

Poor_old_gill

keeponhurling wrote: »

It's an interesting one, with no clear favourite going into the final.

For Mayo I think Aidan O'Shea has been their best performer, with Moran and Boyle close by.

For Dublin probably it had been too easy so their backs could never stand out. I'd say Kilkenny or O'Callaghan are big contenders. Not sure about Cluxton really , has he done enough.

Paul Geaney surely is in the running. He was been class, and don't forget Kerry won the league final too. He scored 8 points in the final, 4 from play.

Non championship performances don't matter unless it's Dermo so Geaney is out

aidan24326

washman3 wrote: »

In the earlier games Keegan was head and shoulders above any other Mayo player. Roscommon would have won the first game had it not been for him, simple as. Then came his injury and he has been hampered for the last 2 games. Boyle has excelled when the going got tough, a real standout player.
Moran is in the form of his life. Many people forget the displays of keeper Clarke, he has been immense, as has the most under-rated player on the team, Jason Doherty. Probable the most honest player in football at the moment. All of these players would be well ahead of O'Shea IMO, even his brother Seamus, a totally honest player too. But Aidan is a 'media darling' and his buddies in there will always push for him.
For me its down to Boyle,Moran,Clarke,Callaghan,Cluxton,Kilkenny and Geaney.
With Boyle out in front at this point in time.

Can't understand why Cluxton is being talked about as FOTY. I can only think it's been a slow year with no standout performer and he might get it almost as some lifetime achievement award or something.

He has done nothing wrong, his kickouts have been good, very composed as usual etc etc, but Dublin have been so in control that he has had very little to do overall, and for most of Dublin's championship campaign so far he could have sat down in the goalmouth area and had a picnic.

corny

aidan24326 wrote: »

He has done nothing wrong, his kickouts have been good, very composed as usual etc etc, but Dublin have been so in control that he has had very little to do overall, and for most of Dublin's championship campaign so far he could have sat down in the goalmouth area and had a picnic.

Mightn't be game clinching contributions but Cluxton has been called upon quite a bit this year. His shot stopping has been first class. Either you deliberately ignored that or you haven't been watching Dublins games.

ThunbergsAreGo

aidan24326 wrote: »

Can't understand why Cluxton is being talked about as FOTY. I can only think it's been a slow year with no standout performer and he might get it almost as some lifetime achievement award or something.

He has done nothing wrong, his kickouts have been good, very composed as usual etc etc, but Dublin have been so in control that he has had very little to do overall, and for most of Dublin's championship campaign so far he could have sat down in the goalmouth area and had a picnic.

Feel the same about Keegan being mentioned, one good game this year. He was poor in earlier games. O Shea has been consistently better for me this year

Feel like Dublin players have less chance as they won games more convincingly.

km79

If mayo win it will be whoever has the biggest impact out of Aidan o shea and Andy Moran in the final
If mayo are to win it think Aidan o shea has to play very well. Moreso than Moran

If the dubs win take your pick !
Can't understand Cluxton being favourite though

liam7831

Donaghy for me

Stoner

km79 wrote:

Can't understand Clinton being favourite though

I think it's his accuracy with cigar placement

km79

liam7831 wrote: »

Donaghy for me

Zero chance

washman3

naughtb4 wrote: »

Feel the same about Keegan being mentioned, one good game this year. He was poor in earlier games. O Shea has been consistently better for me this year

Feel like Dublin players have less chance as they won games more convincingly.

O'Shea consistent...?? you must be believing the hype his media buddies are spewing.
Anonymous V Galway (coming back from injury granted)
Average V Derry (remember Derry had a free at the death to win that game)
Anonymous V Clare in the first half, came into the game when Clare lost a midfielder to injury and their best defender to a black card.
Anonymous V Cork until Aidan Walshe got injured.
Anonymous V Roscommon in the drawn game bar his vital interception that saved a certain Ross goal and a probable win.
Very good game V Rossies in replay, every Mayo player and subs were excellent, Rossies were a busted flush anyway.
Really poor V Kerry in drawn game, his opponent directly involved in 2-6
Average to good in replay when Mayo dominated midfield due to Parsons and Seamie being excellent with Moran on fire inside.

If that's consistant, then I must be blind.
If you want consistency look no further than Boyle on indeed Higgins.
Higgins has been consistently excellent for a decade but sometimes goes unnoticed because he doesn't court the media, at all.

ThunbergsAreGo

washman3 wrote: »

O'Shea consistent...?? you must be believing the hype his media buddies are spewing.
Anonymous V Galway (coming back from injury granted)
Average V Derry (remember Derry had a free at the death to win that game)
Anonymous V Clare in the first half, came into the game when Clare lost a midfielder to injury and their best defender to a black card.
Anonymous V Cork until Aidan Walshe got injured.
Anonymous V Roscommon in the drawn game bar his vital interception that saved a certain Ross goal and a probable win.
Very good game V Rossies in replay, every Mayo player and subs were excellent, Rossies were a busted flush anyway.
Really poor V Kerry in drawn game, his opponent directly involved in 2-6
Average to good in replay when Mayo dominated midfield due to Parsons and Seamie being excellent with Moran on fire inside.

If that's consistant, then I must be blind.
If you want consistency look no further than Boyle on indeed Higgins.
Higgins has been consistently excellent for a decade but sometimes goes unnoticed because he doesn't court the media, at all.

I was just speaking compared to Keegan who has played one great half

The media will sway who wins it tonight anyway

I'm sure everyone playing today would rather win today and not be FOTY

washman3

liam7831 wrote: »

Donaghy for me

Has been excellent too this year too.
Almost won the first game V Mayo on his own.
If he had got the service in the replay he would have done the same.

washman3

naughtb4 wrote: »

I was just speaking compared to Keegan who has played one great half

The media will sway who wins it tonight anyway

I'm sure everyone playing today would rather win today and not be FOTY

Ya, I see your point. But TPF Keegan picked up that injury and it was worse than many people know about.
Even a big game for Fenton today could sway it as he was very close last year and for me should have won it.
But like you say, winning A.I. is priority.

Faugheen

Honestly, some of the ****e that gets written about Stephen Cluxton on these boards bores me to death.

He's had a stellar career, but still people look to pick holes and write him off/say their team's keeper is better than him. Utter nonsense. Cluxton has changed the role of the goalkeeper immensely but no, he's only good at kick-outs.

I honestly am sick of the begrudery towards him. He can alter his play numerous times and people will try to find fault in his game, referencing a match that was played about 10 years ago.

I saw someone suggest that he only gets All-Stars because picking the keeper means they can get a Dub in there. Again, no credit to what the man does year-in, year-out.

If Cluxton played for Mayo/Kerry he'd be heralded as the best keeper of all time, a title which he would deserve. However because he plays for Dublin people still try to write him off.

We don't deserve players like him in the GAA, because clearly so many can't see past their red mist against Dublin to recognise what a great footballer he is.

Arcade_Tryer

Aidan O'Shea.

More pressure on him in every big game than any other player in the country, handles it admirably, and is the engine that drives this Mayo team, and allows the more highly praised Higgins, Keegan, Boyle, O'Connor, Moran to perform. If he delivers in the final, it would be the obvious choice for honest assessors.

liam7831

km79 wrote:

Zero chance

I didn't say he was going to win, I just gave my opinion

Doltanian

Could a Minor footballer get young player of the year or is that gong usually reserve for young senior players?

DJIMI TRARORE

Andy Moran getting closer to winning this by the minute,

blanch152

Doltanian wrote: »

Could a Minor footballer get young player of the year or is that gong usually reserve for young senior players?

This year it is reserved for Con O'Callaghan.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Interesting to see who'll get the main award.

I think Con O'Callaghan might have a chance.

Cluxton might get it as a Ryan Giggs style lifetime achievement award.

washman3

After today. O'Callaghan has a serious chance but James McCarthy was immense and MOTM today and may take POTY ahead of Callaghan and Cluxton.
I hope Andy Moran can take it as it may just be his last year. He was outstanding in the first half today, quiet in the second but set up the Keegan goal. Coming into today's game it was between himself,Boyle and Clarke from a Mayo selection but he surpassed them today.

TCDStudent1

I think it will be Andy Moran.

If I recall correctly, players vote for POTY. That will work in Moran's favour as Mayo played so many games (and he was superb in most of them).

pimpmyhat

Hard to look past Andy moran

Shurimgreat

Andy Moran or James McCarthy would be the two standouts of the year.

Con O'Callaghan for young player.

Cluxton had an awful final. Gave away countless kickouts when Mayo pressed up. Was the reason why Mayo dominated in the first half.

ThunbergsAreGo

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Andy Moran or James McCarthy would be the two standouts of the year.

Con O'Callaghan for young player.

Cluxton had an awful final. Gave away countless kickouts when Mayo pressed up. Was the reason why Mayo dominated in the first half.

I would put it down to Mayo being great in the middle, they destroyed Dublins midfield

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Andy Moran or James McCarthy would be the two standouts of the year.

Con O'Callaghan for young player.

Cluxton had an awful final. Gave away countless kickouts when Mayo pressed up. Was the reason why Mayo dominated in the first half.

Actually Cluxton had a very good game. The preplanned kickout strategy failed because men out the field were beaten. Cluxton is good enough to change to Plan B and I don't think he lost a kick-out in the second half. He also fielded well and had one good save from a poor shot. He had no chance with the goal.

Compare that to Clarke whose kick-outs fell apart under the pressure of the last ten minutes.

Poor_old_gill

I always find it funny that the kickout is 100% judged on the keeper when it goes wrong- what if he has no options? You need receivers who make space, etc.

I thought he did very well in the second half yesterday.

I think if McCarthy wins it then they should just pack in this award- he had a fine year prior to yesterday and even had a poor first half but had a very good last 20 mins- surely thats not enough to win player of the year

corny

naughtb4 wrote: »

I would put it down to Mayo being great in the middle, they destroyed Dublins midfield

I was astonished at how poor Dublin were in midfield. Mayo were doing the normal thing of gathering around the man going up to win the breaks and Dublin just weren't.

I remember James McCarthy going up with 4 Mayo men around him waiting for the break. No Dub in sight.

keeponhurling

Mayo dominant in the midfield, but yet James McCarthy was MOTM.
There is no stand out performer this year.
I'd give it to Andy Moran or Paul Geaney.

Stoner

keeponhurling wrote:

Mayo dominant in the midfield, but yet James McCarthy was MOTM. .

In the first half they were imo but Dublin took over in the second half just about, also Flynn went into midfiled and McCarthy dropped back a bit to cover McCaffery

Crash Bang Wall

Andy Moran all day long......Mayo wouldnt have got close to an All Ireland Final.....scored something like 3-24 from play in the Championship

ProudDUB

Wouldn't have a problem at all with Andy Moran getting it. It would be richly deserved. Dublin are a sum of all their parts, but AM is Mayo's heartbeat in ways that Cillian O'Connor or Aidan O'Shea will never be, despite all the frees kicked, or column inches generated. Really hope he sticks around for another year, even if his minutes played, will have to be micro managed to an even greater degree.

corny

Paul Mannion should win it. His exhibition against Monaghan and his work rate (and scores) yesterday should be worthy of the highest praise. Con O'Callaghan a very close second.

ThunbergsAreGo

ProudDUB wrote: »

Wouldn't have a problem at all with Andy Moran getting it. It would be richly deserved. Dublin are a sum of all their parts, but AM is Mayo's heartbeat in ways that Cillian O'Connor or Aidan O'Shea will never be, despite all the frees kicked, or column inches generated. Really hope he sticks around for another year, even if his minutes played, will have to be micro managed to an even greater degree.

Yeah can see Moran getting it.

In a strange way getting beaten early in the Championship almost enhances a players chances of winning player of the year as more opportunities to shine

STB.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Andy Moran or James McCarthy would be the two standouts of the year.

Con O'Callaghan for young player.

Cluxton had an awful final. Gave away countless kickouts when Mayo pressed up. Was the reason why Mayo dominated in the first half.

This is all in your head.

11/11 in the second half.

Over the season has constantly found his man with kickouts. He has brought a new dynamic to the game and role of the goalkeeper.