Footballer of the Year

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

Players are human also and some would have this in built dislike for Dublin and thats fair enough and it would decide who they vote for.  But Oisin McConville said it well, how could you hate Dublin they are the perfect Gaelic Football team who play football the right way

So just to be clear; mcconville - a former gaa player - doesn't hate Dublin and praises their play. And that proves that players hate Dublin...

Eh I just said not all do, some can appreciate a team playing the game the way it should be played but others will have a natural chip on their shoulders.
Like can you admit Dublin play great football and are good to watch?

Buer

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Wanting a county to succeed isn't relevant to an individual award though. For example, you lads are always saying it is 31 v 1 against Dublin, yet Dublin have 4 of the last 7 POTY awards. It doesn't add up.

I actually think it is a bit of an insult to gaa players to suggest that they are that biased that they wouldn't be honest enough to vote for the best player of that season.

I think you're very naive, in that case. People will gladly use their vote to reward a county for their season. They're not robots. We're all influenced by similar things every day in terms of our preferences. They may not even do so explictly or consciously.

I'm not saying anything about it being 31 vs 1 or this being about Dublin. You're bringing that into the conversation. I'm saying it's about 2 options from a county against 1 option from another.

ThunbergsAreGo

Don't think anyone will argue with Andy Moran but surprised O Callaghan isn't mentioned more.

Two potential goal of the year contenders in his counties two biggest games and a higher points per game despite playing arguably superior opposition (Dublin played 4 of next year's Division One teams on the way, more than any other team)

Maybe it's the easier one to give him Young Player of the Year

Shurimgreat

And Dublin followers accuse us of conspiracy theories

Jesus lads, if AM wins it, wish him well and stop making excuses. Its pathetic at this stage

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

Eh I just said not all do, some can appreciate a team playing the game the way it should be played but others will have a natural chip on their shoulders.
Like can you admit Dublin play great football and are good to watch?

Well obviously a voting majority need to. So 34ish%, and that is assuming the other two are a dead heat at 33% each. This is starting to sound like that 9-11 conspiracy, where they investigated to find that something like 5,000 people would need to be in on it for it to happen...

I think Dublin are a great team. Why do you need me to praise them before you can give a bit on this ludicrous notion about split voting though? Just call it straight in the first place.

kilns

Exactly, he will taken out of the equation as Young Player is sown up.  Would definitely deserve senior player of the year too

MayoAreMagic

Buer wrote: »

I think you're very naive, in that case. People will gladly use their vote to reward a county for their season. They're not robots. We're all influenced by similar things every day in terms of our preferences. They may not even do so explictly or consciously.

I'm not saying anything about it being 31 vs 1 or this being about Dublin. You're bringing that into the conversation. I'm saying it's about 2 options from a county against 1 option from another.

Intercounty footballers? I think you underestimate their intelligence and honesty to be honest with you.
The 31 v 1 thing gets peddled often, yet 5 of the last 7 POTY awards went to Dublin players. Surely if people vote on county all the time and I am naïve on the topic, then they wouldn't be getting these POTY awards? One contradicts the other.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

Eh I just said not all do, some can appreciate a team playing the game the way it should be played but others will have a natural chip on their shoulders.
Like can you admit Dublin play great football and are good to watch?

Well obviously a voting majority need to. So 34ish%, and that is assuming the other two are a dead heat at 33% each. This is starting to sound like that 9-11 conspiracy, where they investigated to find that something like 5,000 people would need to be in on it for it to happen...

I think Dublin are a great team. Why do you need me to praise them before you can give a bit on this ludicrous notion about split voting though? Just call it straight in the first place.

I never mention split voting.  It is just human nature to vote for someone who had disappointment this year and give them a consolation prize and that is why Andy Moran will win, if you dont believe that you are very naiive. I think that is the main point people are trying to get across over the last few pages

jr86

kilns wrote: »

Anyway how I see it going
1. Andy Moran
2. James McCarthy
3. Paul Mannion

YPOTY
1. Con O'Callaghan
2. ?????

Michael Daly galway would be second looks like he'll go on to become a very important player for them

MayoAreMagic

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And Dublin followers accuse us of conspiracy theories

Jesus lads, if AM wins it, wish him well and stop making excuses. Its pathetic at this stage

Im just enjoying picking out this faux logic being used to explain why Moran, the standout candidate to win the POTY award, is beating Dublin player X, Y and Z to said award, rather than just deserving to win it, like O'Callaghan in the YPOTY. I mean the fact that they aren't even suggesting the same Dublin player among themselves undermines their own argument completely.

seligehgit

Bambi wrote: »

I'd imagine Moran will get the sympathy vote given that he's an old guy who had an Indian summer but lost again

Mannion the best forward this year for me, took some ridiculous scores[/QUOTE]

Mannion for me has been Dublin's stand out player this year.When it was needed at the start of the second half he stood up and caused untold problems.

Not sure whom mentioned the minimal impact McManamon,now that's laughable.He was exceptional and caused untold problems.He had far more impact than his more illustrious team mate Diarmuid Connolly.

The bench undoubtedly won the game for Dublin.We ran out of legs,simple as.Laughable the notion we bottled it,our bench is not comparable to that of the Dubs.Donie's sending off was crucial as outside the fact we would have been a man up,on quite a warm where fresh legs would be crucial it allowed Cluxton to pick his men with a stretched game and greater space to place his kickouts.

As mentioned it is frankly insulting to hear it repeated that Dublin didn't turn up for final like last year.They were only allowed play as well as our guys allowed them to do so.

Have to no intention of watching the game back for many months.

Why did we lose the game?Another early goal concession with too many steps taken?The game was probably lost in the first half with some relatively poor wides.A paltry one point lead was scant reward for our dominance.

The sending offs,the change in personnel ensured that Dublin ran at us very successfully in the second half.The missed goal chance,although Rock should equally have buried his.The misses by Andy,Aidan and Cillian's missed chance.Not a Mayo man there anticipating the rebound.

The unfortunate final two kickouts,pressure does crazy things.

Very proud of the lads though,they left nothing out there.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

I never mention split voting. It is just human nature to vote for someone who had disappointment this year and give them a consolation prize and that is why Andy Moran will win, if you dont believe that you are very naiive. I think that is the main point people are trying to get across over the last few pages

If that is the case then why have only a couple of non all Ireland winners won the award? :P

Moran will win it because he deserves to.
I believe you can muster the strength to choke out that sentence for yourself. But then again, I am naive

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And Dublin followers accuse us of conspiracy theories

Jesus lads, if AM wins it, wish him well and stop making excuses. Its pathetic at this stage

Im just enjoying picking out this faux logic being used to explain why Moran, the standout candidate to win the POTY award, is beating Dublin player X, Y and Z to said award, rather than just deserving to win it, like O'Callaghan in the YPOTY. I mean the fact that they aren't even suggesting the same Dublin player among themselves undermines their own argument completely.

I think if it softens the blow after Sunday for mayoaremagic I think everyone should just agree with him on Andy Moran and not debate it.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

I never mention split voting.  It is just human nature to vote for someone who had disappointment this year and give them a consolation prize and that is why Andy Moran will win, if you dont believe that you are very naiive. I think that is the main point people are trying to get across over the last few pages

If that is the case then why have only a couple of non all Ireland winners won the award? :P

Moran will win it because he deserves to.
I believe you can muster the strength to choke out that sentence for yourself. But then again, I am naive

because it only went to a players vote in recent times, it was done along with the All Stars which are shambles, giving token all stars out here and there. 
Moran had a good year and is a contender but the way you shoot down everyone else who suggests he might not win, shows a certain amount of tunnel vision but you can have your POTY award again but to be honest I know what any player would rather have and thats an All Ireland medal

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

I think if it softens the blow after Sunday for mayoaremagic I think everyone should just agree with him on Andy Moran and not debate it.

Well if 'everyone', i.e. you and two other dubs, could piece together a valid counter argument that wasn't bordering on a carry-on film, you wouldn't have to man.

kilns

I dont why I am debating with you but a case has been made for Mannion and O'Callaghan so broaden your mind a little and accept arguments for and against, nobody is debating that Andy Moran had a great year but people are suggesting others had great years too but you refuse to accept it.
Good luck to you

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

because it only went to a players vote in recent times, it was done along with the All Stars which are shambles, giving token all stars out here and there.
Moran had a good year and is a contender but the way you shoot down everyone else who suggests he might not win, shows a certain amount of tunnel vision but you can have your POTY award again but to be honest I know what any player would rather have and thats an All Ireland medal

'Recent times' - when exactly?

Im actually just shooting down the frankly, laughable logic being pushed that if a dub doesn't win it will be down to 'split voting', despite the fact that the concept is not applicable to the voting system in place. Not to mention it being a bit of an insult to players in general. If not that then some other reason - basically anything but accept that a player from another county had a better season. It is painfully cringe-worthy.

The reality is, some lads are just fanboys who think their lads should win everything, and whenever they don't it is just a conspiracy, or 31 v 1 or whatever else.

PARlance

seligehgit wrote: »

The misses by Andy,Aidan and Cillian's missed chance.Not a Mayo man there anticipating the rebound.

I was just looking back a text that I sent a friend on July 31st, the day after the Roscommon game.

Cillian had a long free towards the end and it was going to drop short more often than not. Not a sinner was there to anticipate it. Fine margins. Possibly the fear of losing overcoming the willingness to win.

Fine margins. I hate fine margins.

ThunbergsAreGo

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If that is the case then why have only a couple of non all Ireland winners won the award? :P

Moran will win it because he deserves to.
I believe you can muster the strength to choke out that sentence for yourself. But then again, I am naive

I think the qualifiers lend themselves more to non All Ireland winners winning it.

Mayo have had a great journey and Moran has been part of that. If Mayo had not lost to Galway it might be a different story on POTY as more games means more memories and chances to impress

Moran has been very good across a number of games all be it alot if them vs inferior teams. He would be a deserved winner but so would a few of the Dublin players

Crash Bang Wall

kilns wrote: »

I dont why I am debating with you but a case has been made for Mannion and O'Callaghan so broaden your mind a little and accept arguments for and against, nobody is debating that Andy Moran had a great year but people are suggesting others had great years too but you refuse to accept it.
Good luck to you

To be fair, had Dublin been missing any of their starting 15, they would have got to the All Ireland Final and quite possibly won it.

Had Mayo been missing Andy Moran, they wouldnt have got anywhere near an All Ireland Final.

Thats why Andy Moran should get Player of the Year

Martina1991

kilns wrote:

It is just human nature to vote for someone who had disappointment this year and give them a consolation prize and that is why Andy Moran will win, if you dont believe that you are very naiive. I think that is the main point people are trying to get across over the last few pages

Are you actually calling the Player of the year award a consolation prize.

You're deluded.

blanch152

kilns wrote: »

I dont why I am debating with you but a case has been made for Mannion and O'Callaghan so broaden your mind a little and accept arguments for and against, nobody is debating that Andy Moran had a great year but people are suggesting others had great years too but you refuse to accept it.
Good luck to you

I would add McCarthy and Cluxton to that list which shows how many Dublin contenders there are (That first kick-out against Tyrone by Cluxton was the play of the year).

People will be split over which of at least those four Dublin players contributed the most, Moran is by a long distance the only Mayo contender, Harte and Geaney are too far behind, meaning that the logic and the nature of the vote point to Moran winning it. At the same time, when it came to the crunch, he didn't score after the 22nd minute of the All-Ireland final.

O'Callaghan or Clifford for Young Player of the Year.

On the All-Stars, the pivotal nature of the three-in-a-row achievement would normally mean Dublin would get 8 or 9, but expect the usual consolation prizes to be handed out and Dublin could get as few as 6.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

I dont why I am debating with you but a case has been made for Mannion and O'Callaghan so broaden your mind a little and accept arguments for and against, nobody is debating that Andy Moran had a great year but people are suggesting others had great years too but you refuse to accept it.
Good luck to you

Broaden my mind and accept arguments... If the argument is that the poty award basically operates like the Eurovision and nearly half of intercounty gaa players are biased, dishonest and just hate Dublin is the argument Im supposed to accept, then sorry but that cant be taken seriously. If you want an argument to be taken seriously, make a decent one.

The reality is guys are saying moran will get it, but only because of the above conspiracy, and it is them Im taking issue with. The reality is they know he will probably win it, but just don't want to admit that this is because he probably deserves the award.

Buer

Shurimgreat wrote:

He missed 8/14 in the first half though.

Incorrect. He hit 8/14.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Broaden my mind and accept arguments... If the argument is that the poty award basically operates like the Eurovision and nearly half of intercounty gaa players are biased, dishonest and just hate Dublin is the argument Im supposed to accept, then sorry but that cant be taken seriously. If you want an argument to be taken seriously, make a decent one.

The reality is guys are saying moran will get it, but only because of the above conspiracy, and it is them Im taking issue with. The reality is they know he will probably win it, but just don't want to admit that this is because he probably deserves the award.

Keegan won it last year on a split vote, it is not rocket science to suggest it will happen again.

MayoAreMagic

naughtb4 wrote: »

I think the qualifiers lend themselves more to non All Ireland winners winning it.

Mayo have had a great journey and Moran has been part of that. If Mayo had not lost to Galway it might be a different story on POTY as more games means more memories and chances to impress

Moran has been very good across a number of games all be it alot if them vs inferior teams. He would be a deserved winner but so would a few of the Dublin players

It definitely does, no question about it. But then playing in a team that is miles head of everyone lends itself to awards also. Would any of Dublin's 5 winners in 7 years have the POTY award if they played for Carlow? How many would Brendan Murphy have if he played for Dublin?

Buer

MayoAreMagic wrote:

Well if 'everyone', i.e. you and two other dubs, could piece together a valid counter argument that wasn't bordering on a carry-on film, you wouldn't have to man.

If you're referring to me, I'd give it to Moran. I'm just trying to explain something to you.

If it helps you understand, I think Cluxton has the best chance of a Dublin player due to never having won it and his career. That would be people voting based on emotion rather than who the best player was. It doesn't matter what county they happen to represent.

corny

seligehgit wrote: »

Bambi wrote: »

I'd imagine Moran will get the sympathy vote given that he's an old guy who had an Indian summer but lost again

Mannion the best forward this year for me, took some ridiculous scores[/QUOTE]

Mannion for me has been Dublin's stand out player this year.When it was needed at the start of the second half he stood up and caused untold problems.

Not sure whom mentioned the minimal impact McManamon,now that's laughable.He was exceptional and caused untold problems.He had far more impact than his more illustrious team mate Diarmuid Connolly.

The bench undoubtedly won the game for Dublin.We ran out of legs,simple as.Laughable the notion we bottled it,our bench is not comparable to that of the Dubs.Donie's sending off was crucial as outside the fact we would have been a man up,on quite a warm where fresh legs would be crucial it allowed Cluxton to pick his men with a stretched game and greater space to place his kickouts.

As mentioned it is frankly insulting to hear it repeated that Dublin didn't turn up for final like last year.They were only allowed play as well as our guys allowed them to do so.

Have to no intention of watching the game back for many months.

Why did we lose the game?Another early goal concession with too many steps taken?The game was probably lost in the first half with some relatively poor wides.A paltry one point lead was scant reward for our dominance.

The sending offs,the change in personnel ensured that Dublin ran at us very successfully in the second half.The missed goal chance,although Rock should equally have buried his.The misses by Andy,Aidan and Cillian's missed chance.Not a Mayo man there anticipating the rebound.

The unfortunate final two kickouts,pressure does crazy things.

Very proud of the lads though,they left nothing out there.

No way is that true but Kev Mc was very good. Also, i'd argue it wasn't the Dublin bench at all that swung the game. Connolly and Kev Mc came on at HT but they hardly had a huge fitness advantage when they were changing the game early in the second half. They changed the game because they're brilliant players not out of the freshness of their legs. Other than that the other subs did nothing. In truth it was the Dublin starters who took the game to Mayo in the last 10 minutes to close it out, as they always do. Players like McCarthy, COS, Cooper, were still running hard while AOS, Higgins, etc had come to a standstill. Mayo are special, Dublin moreso in every aspect.

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Keegan won it last year on a split vote, it is not rocket science to suggest it will happen again.

:P
No he didn't man, the same logic applies last year as this year. He won it because he was by a distance the best player last year. I mean, he marked the top players on every team, nullified them completely and even outscored almost all of them. He popped up for huge scores when his team needed them also, off both feet. There was even a media campaign against him, which he answered with the goal of the season. It was a movie-season if there ever was one, they even left enough room for a sequal with the ending. That propaganda last year is the same as the propaganda this year - a load of b*l*x. The split voting argument doesn't stand up at all. In fact, it isn't even split voting you are describing, it is in fact spoiler effect, where two guys of a similar ideology spoil their vote-base by going against one another. But Dublin only get 25 odd votes, so it isn't applicable at all.

MayoAreMagic

Buer wrote: »

If you're referring to me, I'd give it to Moran. I'm just trying to explain something to you.

If it helps you understand, I think Cluxton has the best chance of a Dublin player due to never having won it and his career. That would be people voting based on emotion rather than who the best player was. It doesn't matter what county they happen to represent.

But that isn't a bias based just on county though. In fact that is an example of non-dubs voting for a dub despite him not deserving it on footballing grounds - the very opposite of the argument that 'people just wont vote for dubs regardless of them deserving it' as some pushed earlier.