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Ending a rental lease early

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  • 14-09-2017 4:11pm
    #1
    realflash1982
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭


    Hi All,
    Jut looking for a small bit of advice based on others experience. I have checked the RTB and various websites for information but nothing covers my question directly.
    I signed a 18 month rental lease 8 months ago.
    My son got offered a place in a school a good few miles from our home so we decided we needed to make a move as the traffic can be heavy during peak hours.
    I contacted the landlord, explained the situation and although he was surprised we were moving out, he accepted that the lease was signed in good faith and it was the turn in circumstances that had forced our hand. Our notice of a month had been given.
    Obviously we are breaking the lease and I told the landlord I would do what ever is needed to get it rented for him again but we both agreed, a nice house in a nice area in the current market was not going to take long to shift. If that meant some small additional re-letting costs then so be it, I would prefer to leave on good terms and a reference.
    He accepted that and said as long as there is no break in the rental income to him (i.e. re-let it quickly) then that was the main thing. He said he would get back to me.
    The first I knew of any change in the situation was a friend telling me our home was online for rent with a letting agent. The price had gone up 10% which didn't surprise me and to be fair I thought at least that would cover any additional cost if he is getting more than what we were paying him.
    I got a call from him today, and he said there are additional costs to be paid, I asked him how much, he said he didn't know. I said to him that he must have been given an indication of some sort of the costs and he said no, and asked me to deal with the letting agent myself which I thought was strange.
    I am guessing that the niceties have ended, and I am going to be landed with the full letting agent cost.I know the letting agent well and they are expensive and ruthless. I don't hold this against him, after all I have in-convenienced him, but he never said upfront what his plans were for the property until viewings were arranged. If i knew he was going to opt for the most expensive agent in town, I could have offered to let it or even sub let (which I am entitled to do) it myself. I know the sub let option is not an attractive option for a landlord but if they are being difficult it can help with negotiations to use it.
    The fact that he has put the rent up 10% more than covers any costs he has incurred, he makes a profit as does the letting agent.
    Do I have any grounds or can they hold my deposit for the letting agent costs?
    Thanks


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    #2
    malpas
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭malpas


    AFAIK since you will be in breach of the lease, landlord is entitled to recompense for any void period which may occur and re-letting expenses such as the agent you mention, cleaning etc. If no replacement tenant is found you remain liable for the remainder of the lease but I don't expect this will happen. I don't think the 10% increase is relevant if it is just the market rate. He cannot however reasonably refuse any replacement tenant that you may find (not a sub-let) so I suggest that you go this route and save money & worry. Best of luck.


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    #3
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    It's hard to see how you can argue against the vouched costs of him getting a new tenant when you are breaking the lease. Technically it is you who is responsible for the reassignment of the lease so it should be you paying to find a new tenant. If he shows you the receipts/advertising agreement with the EA, then that's the price you pay. If you don't reassign the lease, you would be on the hook for the full amount of the contract term. You either find a new tenant yourself, or you count yourself lucky that he isn't asking you to pay the rent up.

    His agreement in letting you end the contract depended on him not being out of pocket by your leaving early. Advertising and paying an EA leaves him out of pocket.


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    #4
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OP, I'd imagine the landlord will have a quick re-think if presented with the option of the you finding a tenant at the existing rent (reassigning the lease) or them finding their own replacement at the new rent but lumping the letting costs.

    The above assumes the property is not in an RPZ in which case a 10% increase may not be legal.

    I can't see how the landlord can claim any vouched costs if he is presented with an alternative tenant by the OP.


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    #5
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Graham wrote: »
    OP, I'd imagine the landlord will have a quick re-think if presented with the option of the you finding a tenant at the existing rent (reassigning the lease) or them finding their own replacement at the new rent but lumping the letting costs.

    The above assumes the property is not in an RPZ in which case a 10% increase may not be legal.

    I can't see how the landlord can claim any vouched costs if he is presented with an alternative tenant by the OP.

    That's a double edged sword if the op is on the hook for the remainder of the lease or until he/she reassigns lease and new tenant moves in (new tenant may have to give notice to their current LL.) To be fair, the LL is agreeing the notice and just wants fee involved in getting new tenant in. You could be sticky about it, but at the end of the day it's the op breaking the lease and the LL is out of pocket. Both sides are being fair if the op pays fees for getting new tenant.


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    #6
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OP is legally entitled to reassign the lease, landlord has no choice but to agree.


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    #7
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Graham wrote: »
    OP is legally entitled to reassign the lease, landlord has no choice but to agree.

    And the landlord can employ an estate agent for which the OP will have to pay regardless of where the new tenant comes from.


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Del2005 wrote: »
    And the landlord can employ an estate agent for which the OP will have to pay regardless of where the new tenant comes from.

    Why would the landlord need (or justify to the RTB) retaining an agent if the tenant presents him with an alternative tenant which the landlord cannot unreasonably refuse?

    It's not a part of the RTA I particularly agree with but it's there and the OP is entitled to benefit from it.


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    #9
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Graham wrote: »
    Why would the landlord need (or justify to the RTB) retaining an agent if the tenant presents him with an alternative tenant which the landlord cannot unreasonably refuse?

    It's not a part of the RTA I particularly agree with but it's there and the OP is entitled to benefit from it.

    Ok, op, would you prefer to pay to advertise the property yourself and pay the rent until the person you can reassign it to can move in? Baring in mind that the person you reassign it to may not be able to move in and pay rent until the end of the notice period on their current property which could be more than the one month notice the LL is accepting from you and during which time you would legally be required to continue paying rent.

    Sometimes you just have to see the bigger picture and stop with the RTB craic when the issue is small and the LL is actually making it easier for the tenant to leave.


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    #10
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    works both ways, landlord is set to profit from the increased rent and gets to choose the next tenant.

    OP, I suspect it's going to be down to how hard you want to push.


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    #11
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Graham wrote: »
    works both ways, landlord is set to profit from the increased rent and gets to choose the next tenant.

    OP, I suspect it's going to be down to how hard you want to push.

    Finally the penny drops. The op is benefiting by being able to leave early, doesn't have the hassle of having to pay her/himself to advertise, doesn't have to show the property to interested tenants, doesn't have to pay rent until the next tenant can move in, the LL agreed to this on the condition he wasn't out of pocket for the new tenant, and he gets a new tenant at a higher rent. It's the op who is posting here and it's the op who is going to be out of pocket if this deal goes south.


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    #12
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    OP has already indicated they are interested in finding the replacement tenant thereby avoiding the agency fees. The question was can he/she do this.

    Answer is yes.


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    #13
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Graham wrote: »
    OP has already indicated they are interested in finding the replacement tenant thereby avoiding the agency fees. The question was can he/she do this.

    Answer is yes.

    Then he/she should do this, assert her right to reassign and continue to pay the rent until the new tenant moves in, no doubt that will be a deal breaker on the LL agreeing to end the ops tenancy in one month. Could cost a hell of a lot more if the op has to pay rent for another couple of months. Great advice there.


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    #14
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,962 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Woul LL have any say re the new tenant found by op e.g. Refs etc.


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    #15
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Woul LL have any say re the new tenant found by op e.g. Refs etc.

    The landlord can refuse to accet the assignment. In that case the o/p can terminate the lease. the o/p made a mistake in telling the landlord her intentions. The o/p should have found a new tenant and told the landlord about it and asked for consent to assignment. The way the o/p has done it could result in the letting fees being deducted from the deposit.


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    #16
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Woul LL have any say re the new tenant found by op e.g. Refs etc.

    Not unless the LL had an iron clad reason for refusing the reassignment. If the LL did refuse, the op is free to terminate tenancy.


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    #17
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Could cost the OP a lot less given there's currently no shortage of ready and willing tenants across the country.

    OP, it's fair to say you've been given 2 points of view to consider. Best of luck.


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    #18
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    davo10 wrote: »
    Not unless the LL had an iron clad reason for refusing the reassignment. If the LL did refuse, the op is free to terminate tenancy.

    The landlord as to consent or not. It doesn't matter what his reason for refusing is.


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    #19
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    The landlord can refuse to accet the assignment. In that case the o/p can terminate the lease. the o/p made a mistake in telling the landlord her intentions. The o/p should have found a new tenant and told the landlord about it and asked for consent to assignment. The way the o/p has done it could result in the letting fees being deducted from the deposit.

    Wouldn't the op be have to continue paying rent until lease was reassigned and new tenant began paying rent? What if that was two or three months?


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    #20
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    davo10 wrote: »
    Wouldn't the op be have to continue paying rent until lease was reassigned and new tenant began paying rent? What if that was two or three months?

    The lease is being assigned, not reassigned. The o/p pays rent until a new tenant takes over. If the op sources a prospective tenant and the landlord refuses the o/p just gives notice and just has to pay rent for the notice period.


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    #21
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    The landlord as to consent or not. It doesn't matter what his reason for refusing is.

    Isn't there a caveat allowing the LL to refuse some tenants without denying the right to reassign, sorry, assign.


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    #22
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    The lease is being assigned, not reassigned. The o/p pays rent until a new tenant takes over. .

    Assigned/reassigned, I think we all get the jist of it but thanks for the correction.

    That's the point I'm trying to get across to Graham, the op continues to pay rent until the new tenant takes it up, that could cost the op a lot more than the ad fee.


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    #23
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    davo10 wrote: »
    Isn't there a caveat allowing the LL to refuse some tenants without denying the right to reassign?

    Where?


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    #24
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Where?

    no where


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    #25
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Tigger wrote: »
    no where

    Yip, your right, got that one wrong.


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    #26
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    davo10 wrote: »
    Yip, your right, got that one wrong.

    Exactly. Just find a tinker to take over, let the landlord refuse and off you go!


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    #27
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Exactly. Just find a tinker to take over, let the landlord refuse and off you go!

    I didn't want to post it, I was thinking more about characters recognised as being unsavoury by gardai etc.


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    #28
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Exactly. Just find a tinker to take over, let the landlord refuse and off you go!
    davo10 wrote: »
    I didn't want to post it, I was thinking more about characters recognised as being unsavoury by gardai etc.

    it works
    but you can simply tell the LL and then you dont even have to do it


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    #29
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Tigger wrote: »
    it works
    but you can simply tell the LL and then you dont even have to do it

    There has to be a proposed assignee.


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    #30
    realflash1982
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭realflash1982


    Thanks for the replies.
    To be honest, I see it from both sides but it is the greed that has crept in that is angering me most. Yes I am breaking my lease and causing inconvenience to the landlord, but at the end of the day it all comes down to money, and I feel that greed has got the better of both the landlord and the letting agent now, the letting agent I understand its their job and their assignment. When I spoke with the landlord initially I explained my genuine circumstances, apologised and he said he understood and that we would come to an arrangement to suit us both, all very amicable.
    The latest I heard from the landlord is that he wants me to deal with the estate agent directly for the re-letting costs but apparently was unsure of the fee, and as of yet he has never confirmed it to me.  I called the estate agent and they said the costs will be 1000+. The estate agent also tells me he is keen to keep my deposit and recoup other costs (like moving back in some contents which is nothing to do with me) but he has not said that to me so it looks like they are both looking to get a payday, and given that he has already let the property gets an opportunity to bump up his rent 12 months ahead of schedule, then I just feel it is pure greed. They also mentioned a cleaning bill on departure which was laughable as we had to clean it ourselves when we moved in, and we would always leave a property spotless as if it was our own in any case.
    As far as I am concerned, I am going to deal with the landlord only. I have no arrangement with the letting agent as the property was managed by the landlord and not a letting agent till now. Worst case he takes my deposit. My fear if I was to pay the letting agent is that he can still take my deposit.


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    #31
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    realflash1982 wrote: »
    Thanks for the replies.
    To be honest, I see it from both sides but it is the greed that has crept in that is angering me most. Yes I am breaking my lease and causing inconvenience to the landlord, but at the end of the day it all comes down to money, and I feel that greed has got the better of both the landlord and the letting agent now, the letting agent I understand its their job and their assignment. When I spoke with the landlord initially I explained my genuine circumstances, apologised and he said he understood and that we would come to an arrangement to suit us both, all very amicable.
    The latest I heard from the landlord is that he wants me to deal with the estate agent directly for the re-letting costs but apparently was unsure of the fee, and as of yet he has never confirmed it to me.  I called the estate agent and they said the costs will be 1000+. The estate agent also tells me he is keen to keep my deposit and recoup other costs (like moving back in some contents which is nothing to do with me) but he has not said that to me so it looks like they are both looking to get a payday, and given that he has already let the property gets an opportunity to bump up his rent 12 months ahead of schedule, then I just feel it is pure greed. They also mentioned a cleaning bill on departure which was laughable as we had to clean it ourselves when we moved in, and we would always leave a property spotless as if it was our own in any case.
    As far as I am concerned, I am going to deal with the landlord only. I have no arrangement with the letting agent as the property was managed by the landlord and not a letting agent till now. Worst case he takes my deposit. My fear if I was to pay the letting agent is that he can still take my deposit.

    Your behaviour is disgusting.
    You are breaking a contract.
    How would you feel if a landflord threw you out 2 months early?
    You are a hypocrite.
    Honour your comittments please.


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