Incident on London Underground

BillyBobBS

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What would be your criteria for interning someone?

I'd leave it up to the counter terrorism police to decide. If they believed the person had any leaning or sympathy towards extremists then lock them up and throw away the key.

PuppyMcPupFace

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Carefully vetted families yes. The system Germany, Sweden, France etc... have enacted absolutely not.

Saves me a reply sir, thanks!

Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What would be your criteria for interning someone?

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I'd leave it up to the counter terrorism police to decide. If they believed the person had any leaning or sympathy towards extremists then lock them up and throw away the key.

A Bit risky considering it's quite easy to get put on some list somewhere to suggest that you might have extremist leanings. And now that many countries are sharing 'intelligence' records, you could be locked up and disappear because a foreign country makes a mistake or considers your vacation to Israel, Dubai, etc as being an indication of terrorist leanings.

Instead, look at the situation as a war and treat these people as being intelligence operatives similar to what was done during the cold war. And once clear proof has been determined or obtained... then, lock them up, review their case every year for two years, and if guilty, execute them. Bullet to the brain. Simple. Locking them up forever isn't realistic and costs too much to the state... some focus group will just get them released later. If guilt can be proven after a reasonable time, execute them.

Seems a 21 year old has been arrested also in connection to the attack. (bbc news)

BoJack Horseman

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

But for the hundreds of thousands of Pakistanis, Bangladeshi's, Afghans and Africans, Europe is stuck with them for good.

Who can move to the large areas of their country that are safe.

Very little of Pakistan is under jihadist control, ditto for relatively small pockets of some few African countries.

Europe is only "stuck" with this population transfer because it chooses to be.

People are welcome to peruse the UN data here:
We can see that the population transfer is still almost entirely male & not exactly 'war torn'

conorhal

deco nate wrote: »

Maybe we all should put on tin foil hats to that posters post...

I'd rather go with wearing a Lidl freezer bag TBH. Those things are apparently bomb proof!

Abu94

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yep, keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better. In reality, most of these attacks are for ideological reasons and nothing to do with revenge for any military action. Extremists hate anyone who isn't like them, and believe that they deserve to die, end of story

Sure, ignore the truth if it makes you feel better.

''All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.''

Abu94

wakka12 wrote: »

That is absolutely ridiculous, somebody planned to brutally kill as many people as possible for political/ ideological reason and you think it should be given as much air time as a car crash which happens every day? They receive much more air time because theres a lot more to talk about than an accident like a a car crash. Why did he do it? How?The timeline of events?why wasnt it stopped? Who were the victims?
It honestly sounds like youre trolling or else just completely ignorant. If you cant understand why a terrorist attack in a major city does and SHOULD get vast amounts more media coverage than a car crash than youre either stupid or trolling

Do you realise that that's their point? Get as much attention as possible and by giving them that you are literally supporting their goals and making them happy as they are spreading the message. And I am the stupid one right? Oh my God the ignorance of some people is astonishing.

Abu94

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Carefully vetted families yes. The system Germany, Sweden, France etc... have enacted absolutely not.

Nobody wants to come here to this remote island in the middle of nowhere where nothing ever happens. They go to the UK as it was actually an empire at one point and has a massive population. Lol the whole Ireland has half of the population of London.

BillyBobBS

Abu94 wrote: »

Nobody wants to come here to this remote island in the middle of nowhere where nothing ever happens. They go to the UK as it was actually an empire at one point and has a massive population. Lol the whole Ireland has half of the population of London.

Good. Long may that continue.

Yamanoto

Abu94 wrote: »

Nobody wants to come here to this remote island in the middle of nowhere where nothing ever happens. They go to the UK as it was actually an empire at one point and has a massive population.

Eh, no.

OECD data shows the percentage of foreign born nationals resident in Ireland is higher than comparable figures for the UK, Belgium, Sweden or the USA.

https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm

Abu94

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Good. Long may that continue.

Sheep could not imagine what it is like to be like a wolf

The Moldy Gowl

Abu94 wrote: »

Sheep could not imagine what it is like to be like a wolf

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

Abu94

Abu94 wrote: »

Sure, ignore the truth if it makes you feel better.

''All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.''

Let's make this simple. The groups like ISIS that are responsible for the attacks on European nations believe in the destruction of western culture. They also believe that Islam is the one true faith (in spite of Islam in reality being thousands of interpretations) and anyone that does not bow their heads to that faith, should be killed. (various groups don't believe that westerners can be converted and are too corrupted)

So, lets stick with the truth. Even had Iraq and Afghanistan not been invaded by coalition forces, and western nations hadn't contributed military forces to the M.East, these groups would still be seeking our destruction.

Can you really deny that? While claiming to represent the truth?

tomwaterford

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's make this simple. The groups like ISIS that are responsible for the attacks on European nations believe in the destruction of western culture. They also believe that Islam is the one true faith (in spite of Islam in reality being thousands of interpretations) and anyone that does not bow their heads to that faith, should be killed. (various groups don't believe that westerners can be converted and are too corrupted)

So, lets stick with the truth. Even had Iraq and Afghanistan not been invaded by coalition forces, and western nations hadn't contributed military forces to the M.East, these groups would still be seeking our destruction.

Can you really deny that? While claiming to represent the truth?

The Islamic state was formed in prisons for insurgents set up in Iraq after the invasion as much as anything to retaliate over abuses in the jails

Abu94

Abu94 wrote: »

Nobody wants to come here to this remote island in the middle of nowhere where nothing ever happens. They go to the UK as it was actually an empire at one point and has a massive population. Lol the whole Ireland has half of the population of London.

And a better economy, a stable society and better international relations than most M.Eastern 'nations'. :rolleyes:

While Ireland might not be first choice, it's not very far down the list, for those people leaving their countries for somewhere else.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

So, lets stick with the truth. Even had Iraq and Afghanistan not been invaded by coalition forces, and western nations hadn't contributed military forces to the M.East, these groups would still be seeking our destruction.

Can you really deny that? While claiming to represent the truth?

It sure made recruitment a hell of a lot easier though, no denying that either.

tomwaterford

tomwaterford wrote: »

The Islamic state was formed in prisons for insurgents set up in Iraq after the invasion as much as anything to retaliate over abuses in the jails

The Islamic state was formed because some people saw an opportunity. If it hadn't been ISIS it would have been another group. There was no shortage of groups being formed before ISIS.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

And a better economy, a stable society and better international relations than most M.Eastern 'nations'. :rolleyes:

While Ireland might not be first choice, it's not very far down the list, for those people leaving their countries for somewhere else.

Pretty much, we're actually a very popular destination in the scheme of things - using bulk figures isn't often very telling as we're geographically tiny in relation to a lot of other countries and that's before factoring how underdeveloped (which is to say, not ready for people to just up and move into or businesses to set up shop for employment opportunities) huge parts of the country are.

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

It sure made recruitment a hell of a lot easier though, no denying that either.

I suspect civil & religious unrest, poor economic systems, and corruption likely gave them plenty of recruits too. The M.East was a mess before the invasion of Iraq, and it was heading towards the same unrest and government instability regardless.

I'm not defending the invasion of Iraq or Western policies in the M.East. It's historically been the area where western nations have showed the most short sighted and retarded behaviour. But the 'natives' weren't exactly propelling themselves towards economic and social prosperity on their own.. If they had been, then the US/Coalition wouldn't have found it so easy to jump in there.

Abu94

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I suspect civil & religious unrest, poor economic systems, and corruption likely gave them plenty of recruits too. The M.East was a mess before the invasion of Iraq, and it was heading towards the same unrest and government instability regardless.

I'm not defending the invasion of Iraq or Western policies in the M.East. It's historically been the area where western nations have showed the most short sighted and retarded behaviour. But the 'natives' weren't exactly propelling themselves towards economic and social prosperity on their own.. If they had been, then the US/Coalition wouldn't have found it so easy to jump in there.

USA is funding the rebel groups which then separate to become extremists. They are directly supporting it by giving the weapons and money. All the weapons and vehicles the terrorist groups use are from USA. The ''moderate'' rebels themselves commit atrocities including killing of children. There are plenty of execution videos available.

Abu94

Abu94 wrote: »

USA is funding the rebel groups which then separate to become extremists. They are directly supporting it by giving the weapons and money. All the weapons and vehicles the terrorist groups use are from USA. The ''moderate'' rebels themselves commit atrocities including killing of children. There are plenty of execution videos available.

There's a variety of countries in the M.East funding these same groups.So does Russia... and China.. and.. hmm?

Once more, I'm not defending US foreign policy. They've acted like idiots.

Now.. perhaps answer the question I asked you?

BillyBobBS

Its all Murcia's fault.

#leftielogic

seenitall

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Its all Murcia's fault.

Oh well

It's a lovely city all the same!

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's make this simple. The groups like ISIS that are responsible for the attacks on European nations believe in the destruction of western culture. They also believe that Islam is the one true faith (in spite of Islam in reality being thousands of interpretations) and anyone that does not bow their heads to that faith, should be killed. (various groups don't believe that westerners can be converted and are too corrupted)

So, lets stick with the truth. Even had Iraq and Afghanistan not been invaded by coalition forces, and western nations hadn't contributed military forces to the M.East, these groups would still be seeking our destruction.

Can you really deny that? While claiming to represent the truth?

I don't believe this, no. Their leadership, perhaps. Not the disaffected young people they use as foot soldiers. I fully believe that growing up in a world in which they have been bombarded with images of the West utterly f*cking their ancestral homeland causes them to radicalise - just as I fully believe that I'd probably have been a very willing and enthusiastic recruit to the IRA had I grown up in the 60s and 70s where images of RUC police beating the sh!te out of peaceful civil rights protesters were plastered all over the television.

Ultimately it comes down to whether one feels an empathetic connection to one's ethnic group or not. In other words, would it matter to you as an Irish-American to see Irish people in your ancestral homeland having the crap beaten out of them by the cops when they've done nothing wrong? If it does, you have an empathetic connection to your ethnicity which not everyone has - some would say "meh, I'm not the one getting beaten up and I don't live there so who cares?" - but that's one psychological trait which will make someone more likely to get involved in this crap. And in my view, that empathetic connection extends to others - IE, they believe that all British people are fair game because some British people invaded Muslim countries, just as they believe that all Muslims have legitimate grievances because some Muslims had their country invaded.

Dyr

tomwaterford wrote: »

The Islamic state was formed in prisons for insurgents set up in Iraq after the invasion as much as anything to retaliate over abuses in the jails

Which is why most regimes in the middle east put bullets in these f**kers heads

ISIS was mostly set up by officers from Saddams old Baathist party. They did'nt like the set up in the new Iraq. Retaliation had nothing to do with it.


The Iraqi army aren't too bothered about keeping ISIS prisoners by all accounts.

Abu94

Bambi wrote: »

Which is why most regimes in the middle east put bullets in these f**kers heads

ISIS was mostly set up by officers from Saddams old Baathist party. They did'nt like the set up in the new Iraq. Retaliation had nothing to do with it.


The Iraqi army aren't too bothered about keeping ISIS prisoners by all accounts.

Oh really? Have you interviewed the leaders yourself? Can I see the footage? Or did BBC news told you so?

Okay, Abu94... One last time:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104699985&postcount=486

Respond? You made the point.. I'd like to see your answer to this.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't believe this, no. Their leadership, perhaps. Not the disaffected young people they use as foot soldiers. I fully believe that growing up in a world in which they have been bombarded with images of the West utterly f*cking their ancestral homeland causes them to radicalise - just as I fully believe that I'd probably have been a very willing and enthusiastic recruit to the IRA had I grown up in the 60s and 70s where images of RUC police beating the sh!te out of peaceful civil rights protesters were plastered all over the television.

Ultimately it comes down to whether one feels an empathetic connection to one's ethnic group or not. In other words, would it matter to you as an Irish-American to see Irish people in your ancestral homeland having the crap beaten out of them by the cops when they've done nothing wrong? If it does, you have an empathetic connection to your ethnicity which not everyone has - some would say "meh, I'm not the one getting beaten up and I don't live there so who cares?" - but that's one psychological trait which will make someone more likely to get involved in this crap. And in my view, that empathetic connection extends to others - IE, they believe that all British people are fair game because some British people invaded Muslim countries, just as they believe that all Muslims have legitimate grievances because some Muslims had their country invaded.

Oh, I agree with you... I grew up in a family that regularly wheeled out the abuses done by the British. Thankfully, they've mellowed a lot in the last decade.. (and I'm from near Galway, not Irish/American. although I'm guessing that was an example?)

but at the same time, I have seen nothing that suggests that Islamic countries in the M.East or groups like ISIS would be content to leave the west alone, should they grow strong enough to impose their will on us.

They hold all westerners accountable for what some countries like the US or Britain (or the crusades) did to 'them'. Who is to blame doesn't really matter. There is always some other offence to justify their attacks. The past is not dead to them. And Ultimately, should peace occur, economic prosperity arise, they will still dwell on their religion and that will mean conflict with us.

Testament1

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Its all Murcia's fault.

#leftielogic

Damn those crafty Spaniards!!