Incident on London Underground

AudreyHepburn

They're saying on Sky News now that it's being treated as a Terrorist incident.

At what point are we going to stop taking and start taking action against these lunatics.

The softly softly watch and wait approach is not working anymore.

gandalf

BillyBobBS wrote: »

These people want us all dead and aren't going away. I refuse to accept the view of the London mayor and others who view this as "part and parcel" of life in a big city.

So how do you deal with this? I see a number of people espousing that direct action be taken, what action are they suggesting?

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

So how do you deal with this? I see a number of people espousing that direct action be taken, what action are they suggesting?

Been said in every other thread that happens every other week

BillyBobBS

Looking at the size of that bomb it's a blessing it never went off. I really worry for Europe in the next few years tbh. ISIS are getting their arses handed to them in Iraq and Syria and are fleeing to Europe. If they bring the same IED expertise they used in that war to the UK, Germany, Sweden etc.. and indeed even here then we are in for a hairy few years.

Hope they catch this scumbag and he doesn't go for another attack today.

techdiver

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

They're saying on Sky News now that it's being treated as a Terrorist incident.

At what point are we going to stop taking and start taking action against these lunatics.

The softly softly watch and wait approach is not working anymore.

What do you suggest they do that they are not already doing?

People fail to see how monumentally difficult it is to stop someone doing this if they want to.

It's not as if they can bomb somewhere in response as they would in many cases have to bomb their own country as many of the attacks are perpetrated by their own citizens.

They have a serious number of people under surveillance but it's impossible to keep track of all of them given the resources available. Also, before someone suggests internment, there would be no better a recruitment tool for young muslims to see people being dragged away without committing a crime, because you can bet any money innocents would be caught up in it.

They way to tackle the issue is to get the next generation and educate and provide opportunities. I'm not saying don't come down very hard on those people responsible and those responsible for recruiting and radicalizing young people. But a holistic approach is needed.

AudreyHepburn

gandalf wrote: »

So how do you deal with this? I see a number of people espousing that direct action be taken, what action are they suggesting?

Taking those known to be involved in terrorism and those harbouring them off the streets and jailing and/or deporting them would be a good start

todders

gitzy16v wrote: »

I was right,confirmed the MET,so CLEARLY I know something but Im not an expert.
Get back in your box.

OK, continue putting things out there before they have been proved

That should work out really well for you, without exception lmao

BillyBobBS

gandalf wrote: »

So how do you deal with this? I see a number of people espousing that direct action be taken, what action are they suggesting?

Deport and jail anyone and everyone who shows any signs of being an extremist. You know sensible stuff. Tell the lefties and do gooders to funk off.

tomwaterford

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Taking those known to be involved in terrorism and those harbouring them off the streets and/or deporting them would be a good start

Where can they deport a british citizen too

and doubt the bits will ever attempt internment again


In these attacks they nearly always are home grown??

gandalf

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Deport and jail anyone and everyone who shows any signs of being an extremist. You know sensible stuff. Tell the lefties and do gooders to funk off.

So extremist covers all categories. So we can include far right, republicans, loyalists etc. As for deporting them what if they are citizens of the country?

El Weirdo

A Little Pony wrote: »

But sure Sadiq Khan the worst London mayor of all time said it's normal in a big city.

Exactly what metric are we using here?

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

So extremist covers all categories. So we can include far right, republicans, loyalists etc. As for deporting them what if they are citizens of the country?

Confirmed terrorists on the watch list

Why are they still in the country

The Backwards Man

El Weirdo wrote: »

Exactly what metric are we using here?

ALP prefers Imperial.

Billy86

El Weirdo wrote: »

Exactly what metric are we using here?

It seems it has to do with, erm... let's call it 'tonality'.

gandalf

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Confirmed terrorists on the watch list

Why are they still in the country

And will there by trail by law or do you propose skipping that bit?

And you haven't addressed the question what if they are citizens of the UK, where do you deport them to?

Has ISIS ever claimed responsibilty of attacks that failed, such as this one?

AudreyHepburn

tomwaterford wrote: »

Where can they deport a british citizen too

and doubt the bits will ever attempt internment again


In these attacks they nearly always are home grown??

Their parents country of origin.

gandalf

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Their parents country of origin.

And if their parents are British citizens?

rainbow kirby

A Little Pony wrote: »

But sure Sadiq Khan the worst London mayor of all time said it's normal in a big city.

You actually think that Zac Goldsmith would be doing a better job? Bahahahaha :rolleyes:

The Backwards Man

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Their parents country of origin.

And when their parents are British? Do you just keep going back generations with this bollocks until it suits you? Sounds like a great plan

Billy86

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Their parents country of origin.

1. Not possible by international law as best I am aware, that country could laugh the UK out of it and tell them where to go.

2. And if their parents were born in the UK? Do we revert to grandparents? Great grandparents? Great great grandparents? What if their family lines go back to the Norman invasions, I'm assuming you'd be looking to deport them to France based on 850 year old ancestry?

3. What if someone has for example one French parent and one Austrian parent?

4. What if their Norman ancestors themselves had ancestry dating back to the Romans? And what if those Romans had ancestry dating back to the Gauls in France? Do France and Italy just keep deporting the same person back and forth every few weeks for decades on end? If this happened to Irish/English people caught up would you promise not to whinge and moan about the cost of doing so to the tax payer?

tomwaterford

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has ISIS ever claimed responsibilty of attacks that failed, such as this one?

Is this rather strange case where they claimed responsibly for an attack and police say it wasn't (think it was a case of infidelity or something from what I heard)

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://fox5sandiego.com/2017/06/02/isis-claims-philippines-casino-attack-but-doesnt-give-evidence/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwjPvKrEkKfWAhVoIsAKHR0ZCrkQFgiCATAJ&usg=AFQjCNGJpDcSKc5Q4clYLs9fL3f1Yxra_w&ampcf=1



So you'd be wondering are they just full of self importance

Slightly worrying wit all the cctvs they haven't tracked down this would be bomber in london yet

Hoboo

Deleted User wrote: »

Has ISIS ever claimed responsibilty of attacks that failed, such as this one?

The local government, in this case British, chooses who claims responsibility. 'ISIS' don't have a say.

Search is ongoing for al Queda and the Taliban, still on an extended leave of absence. We're due a new baddy soon.

gandalf

tomwaterford wrote: »

Slightly worrying wit all the cctvs they haven't tracked down this would be bomber in london yet

They may already have them and are not releasing the info yet? For obvious reasons.

BillyBobBS

This is a confirmed terrorist attack. Maybe a thread title change is in order.

gitzy16v

todders wrote: »

OK, continue putting things out there before they have been proved

That should work out really well for you, without exception lmao

I took an educated guess,whats your problem?
Maybe you could educate yourself and you might have the confidence to make an educated guess...lmao:rolleyes:

BillyBobBS

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And when their parents are British? Do you just keep going back generations with this bollocks until it suits you? Sounds like a great plan

Drop them in the middle of the sea with concrete boots then. If you show support for extremists who are willing to blow up children, men and women then i couldn't give a hoot about their human rights etc..

tomwaterford

gandalf wrote: »

They may already have them and releasing the info yet?

You'd imagine they'd want to relieve fears for Friday evenings incase this lad was part of a cell planning to attack pubs/clubs etc of people going out after work on a Friday

El Weirdo

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Drop them in the middle of the sea with concrete boots then.

Sounds a bit... ISISish, no?

Billy86

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Drop them in the middle of the sea with concrete boots then. If you show support for extremists who are willing to blow up children, men and women then i couldn't give a hoot about their human rights etc..

Oh great, let's murder three year old children. A very logical and well thought out response as per usual.

The Backwards Man

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Drop them in the middle of the sea with concrete boots then. If you show support for extremists who are willing to blow up children, men and women then i couldn't give a hoot about their human rights etc..

And if you show support for dumping men, women and children in the sea, what should happen to you?

gandalf

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Drop them in the middle of the sea with concrete boots then. If you show support for extremists who are willing to blow up children, men and women then i couldn't give a hoot about their human rights etc..

So what level of proof is required for your concrete leg warmer policy to be enacted? Posting something silly on social media? Appearing on a watchlist (because security forces don't make mistakes) etc? What decides that a person is summarily executed in your world? Please give me specific details and not "I'm so tough" soundbites.

Podge_irl

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And if you show support for dumping men, women and children in the sea, what should happen to you?

Sounds kind of...extremist

AudreyHepburn

The Backwards Man wrote: »

And when their parents are British? Do you just keep going back generations with this bollocks until it suits you? Sounds like a great plan

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

It's beyond me why people are so adverse to dealing harshly with these people, why they are so afraid to take action.

gitzy16v

gandalf wrote: »

So what level of proof is required for your concrete leg warmer policy to be enacted? Posting something silly on social media? Appearing on a watchlist (because security forces don't make mistakes) etc? What decides that a person is summarily executed in your world? Please give me specific details and not "I'm so tough" soundbites.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057776394

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057744031

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057683938

Its been done already in these other threads.
Some good ideas,some terrible ideas.
Ira,catholics,western intervention all the strawmen are in these threads.
Ill go out on a limb here and say that this incident will have the same similarities as all the previous.

tomwaterford

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

It's beyond me why people are so adverse to dealing harshly with these people, why they are so afraid to take action.

What if the countries you want to deport them too
...won't take them??



I'm all for taking action...but yours just isn't approaching realistic

Podge_irl

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

It's beyond me why people are so adverse to dealing harshly with these people, why they are so afraid to take action.

I would suggest those advocating everything from mass deportations to internment to mass murder as the solution are the ones displaying signs of fear to be honest.

Billy86

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

In what countries?

And what if they're not a Muslim extremist but a different type, where do they go to then?

You really don't appear to have put much of any thought into this to be honest.

AudreyHepburn

tomwaterford wrote: »

What if the countries you want to deport them too
...won't take them??



I'm all for taking action...but yours just isn't approaching realistic

Then through them in prison here - you cannot seriously believe these people should be allowed to go living as they are, doing as they please while we watch and wait for them to strike again

Cheerful Spring

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

They're saying on Sky News now that it's being treated as a Terrorist incident.

At what point are we going to stop taking and start taking action against these lunatics.

The softly softly watch and wait approach is not working anymore.

Like what do you want to see happen? We already fighting Terrorists in Syria, Iraq and Libya. You can not arrest people for crimes they have not carried out. The only thing the British police can do is break up Islamic hate rallies or arrest people for hate speech. People should be jailed for promoting violence and hate crimes, least i think so.

Beefy78

tomwaterford wrote: »

You'd imagine they'd want to relieve fears for Friday evenings incase this lad was part of a cell planning to attack pubs/clubs etc of people going out after work on a Friday

Or more likely they know who the guy is but don't want to make their move in case he leads them to others. Isn't that what the British Government got pissed off with Trump about earlier in the year when the US basically announced who it was forcing the police to move in?

tomwaterford

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then through them in prison here - you cannot seriously believe these people should be allowed to go living as they are, doing as they please while we watch and wait for them to strike again

Do you honestly believe internment is a good idea

By all means sentence them,if they are guilty of something..

But the surly anyone has right to be considered innocent until proven guilty?

The Backwards Man

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

It's beyond me why people are so adverse to dealing harshly with these people, why they are so afraid to take action.

Ah, so it's only Islamic terrorist scum that should be dealt with this in fashion? I think that answers your question for you. People aren't afraid to take action, they aren't stupid enough to make the reactions those who cower before terrorist scum want.

Beefy78

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Then send them to one of the many conservative Muslim caliphates they want to be a part of.

It's beyond me why people are so adverse to dealing harshly with these people, why they are so afraid to take action.

I guess it's because some of us like living in free countries where people have rights, where Police, security services and the Government are subject to due process & the rule of law and where people are innocent until proven guilty.

AudreyHepburn

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Like what do you want to see happen? We already fighting Terrorists in Syria, Iraq and Libya. You can not arrest people for crimes they have not carried out. The only thing the British police can do is break up Islamic hate rallies or arrest people for hate speech. People should be jailed for promoting violence and hate crimes, least i think so.

I want to see a much tougher stance being taken - saying there's nothing we can do because they aren't doing anything wrong is not good enough anymore.

First and foremost I believe the law needs changing in regards to what can be considered crime - associating with known extremists, showing terrorist leanings and even harbouring and failing to report know terrorists or terrorist activity should be crimes punishable by jail time in my opinion.

flaneur

The problem with that is it's how you end up with situations like the Birmingham 6.

Swift justice, don't bother too much with due process or investigation, find someone from the community that the terrorists are associated with and teach them a lesson.

All it does it cause gross miscarriages of justice and alienates the very people who would otherwise be helping to root out terrorism and radicalisation from their own communities.

AudreyHepburn

Beefy78 wrote: »

I guess it's because some of us like living in free countries where people have rights, where Police, security services and the Government are subject to due process & the rule of law and where people are innocent until proven guilty.

Get off your high horse.

You and I both know we're dealing with people who could care less about our rights. Why should we treat them with kid gloves when we know what they are capable of?

flaneur

Which "they" though?
Without due process you're just shortcutting justice to get a swift result and that inevitably causes issues.

Omackeral

Billy86 wrote: »

In what countries?

And what if they're not a Muslim extremist but a different type, where do they go to then?[/B

You really don't appear to have put much of any thought into this to be honest.

Not that I agree with mass deportations or executions but what other extemists are you referring to?! There's hardly a load of Amish lads carrying out atrocities.

tomwaterford

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I want to see a much tougher stance being taken - saying there's nothing we can do because they aren't doing anything wrong is not good enough anymore.

First and foremost I believe the law needs changing in regards to what can be considered crime - associating with known extremists, showing terrorist leanings and even harbouring and failing to report know terrorists or terrorist activity should be crimes punishable by jail time in my opinion.

This is horsesht,I know a few who've been convicted of Terrorism offenses (curiously from both sides of the troubles....we never talk/ask of what they get upto...none my business

Often call to visit and hang out with as we have mutual interests and hobbies....in your fantasy world...you want me locked up??





Your trampling over people's civil liberties for virtually no increase on safety