Lepin Bricks?

Sleepy

Was discussing the UCS Millenium Falcon with a cousin and he pointed me in the direction of https://lepinbrick.com/ where he got a Chinese clone of the UCS X Wing that he was very happy with. They don't have the Millenium Falcon done yet but it seems fairly inevitable given the pics of Lego's one on their homepage.

I'm extremely tempted by the idea of getting something very close to the UCS Millenium Falcon for reasonable money and even more so by their kit for the Sisyphus automata that went viral a few months back...

Brickset did a good review of their Star Destroyer clone here and while there seems to be a few dodgy pieces, by and large, it seems to be a decent, if unashamed copyright infringing, lego clone.

https://brickset.com/article/29578/review-lepin-super-star-destroyer

Anyone else tried a set from them?

Rhyme

I've thought about getting a set that I would display for an extended period of time so the build quality wouldn't be an issue, just the 'look' of the set.

Tantive IV, UCS X-Wing and Orthanc have all caught my eye. I'd say as soon as I have a place to display them, I'll take the plunge.

My train of thought is that they are retired so Lego isn't 'losing' a sale and I cannot otherwise afford to buy 2nd hand so the markup on retired sets was always going to keep me out of the market. I don't think I'd buy a Lepin version of a set that was still on sale or one that I could conceivably afford on the 2nd hand market (after extensive saving). I think it'd bother me.

shotgunmcos

Sleepy wrote: »

Was discussing the UCS Millenium Falcon with a cousin and he pointed me in the direction of https://lepinbrick.com/ where he got a Chinese clone of the UCS X Wing that he was very happy with. They don't have the Millenium Falcon done yet but it seems fairly inevitable given the pics of Lego's one on their homepage.

I'm extremely tempted by the idea of getting something very close to the UCS Millenium Falcon for reasonable money and even more so by their kit for the Sisyphus automata that went viral a few months back...

Brickset did a good review of their Star Destroyer clone here and while there seems to be a few dodgy pieces, by and large, it seems to be a decent, if unashamed copyright infringing, lego clone.

https://brickset.com/article/29578/review-lepin-super-star-destroyer

Anyone else tried a set from them?

I have not had a set from them but I did Bricklink and build JK Brickworks Sisyphus Kinetic Sculpture. Cost me well over €200 for all the parts (LEGO) and its a very cool display model. I would be extremely hesitant getting anything from Lepin let alone a MOC that includes motors. From reviews I've seen of different Lepin rip offs of LEGO stuff while they look the same, there are serious quality issues. Plates and bricks sometimes separating or loose fittings etc. How could they do a model like this amazing MOC for $66 and meet the same standard of quality. I already notice much of the relief detail (Minfigs and small details) are missing from the pics.

JKs MOC of Sisyphus is an exact detail of engineering to create the motion. Its a tricky build and I'd imagine even a mm of different would create rocking and instability in the automated motion.

Now having said all of that, even though I love LEGO and I would be a loyal fan, a lot of the Modular Buildings or display models with limited/simple moving parts that sit on shelves gathering dust or hidden bricks used to bulk up models or support models are just as expensive as the ones you see.

Sleepy

A lot of my sets tend to be shelf dwellers once they're built (or might come down for a take apart, dust off and build again every couple of years) and they do have some stuff I've never seen before.

Lego is becoming prohibitively expensive for many and bricklinking is a pain to do (it really amazes me that Lego stlll haven't expanded "pick-a-brick" to allow customers to buy any pieces they desire in any given quantity - it'd quickly kill a lot of the secondary sale market).

The other half is a big ghibli fan so this set is catching my attention too:

https://lepinbrick.com/collections/xingbao/products/xb05001-musical-castle-in-the-sky-creator-lepinbrick-com

Rhyme

Sleepy wrote: »

A lot of my sets tend to be shelf dwellers once they're built (or might come down for a take apart, dust off and build again every couple of years) and they do have some stuff I've never seen before.

Lego is becoming prohibitively expensive for many and bricklinking is a pain to do (it really amazes me that Lego stlll haven't expanded "pick-a-brick" to allow customers to buy any pieces they desire in any given quantity - it'd quickly kill a lot of the secondary sale market).

The other half is a big ghibli fan so this set is catching my attention too:

https://lepinbrick.com/collections/xingbao/products/xb05001-musical-castle-in-the-sky-creator-lepinbrick-com

I only resort to Bricklinking for small sets, probably max 200 pieces but I did part out some of the retired Architecture sets and that was fun. Spending time how to construct and use Wanted lists on the website spared me a lot of grief and I have the Farnsworth House for a fraction of the price.

This is the next Bricklink project for me as the UCS model is both too big and too expensive for my tastes; https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-5505/집중/death-star-ii-midi-scale/

That Ghibli set is lovely. I wouldn't be a fan of the lower half of it though, the castle itself is beautiful. If they had the robot from Laputa in bricks, I'd be all over that

It's nice that Lepin are marketing larger MOC sets though. A bit more shakier on moral grounds as people built those sets for passion and not for profit. Must give that site a browse.

Necronomicon

Personally I think it's an abomination and honestly wouldn't put one of their knock-offs into my collection if it was given to me for free, even if it was the new Falcon.

mcgovern

I have several of their sets (as well as plenty of real Lego). Quality is not quite as good as the real deal, especially the minifigs, but generally it is plenty good enough for display purposes. Usually only a handful of pieces with issues.
I have the Pirate Ship from LoTR, First Order Tie Fighter, Imperial Shuttle Tyridium (not the UCS one), Sith Infiltrator & U-Wing (not built yet).

By the way, they seem quite expensive on that site, cheaper on AliExpress. That site is not official and not everything on it is Lepin e.g. the Studio Ghibli set is made by XingBao.

Sleepy

Necronomicon wrote: »

Personally I think it's an abomination and honestly wouldn't put one of their knock-offs into my collection if it was given to me for free, even if it was the new Falcon.

That's a pretty strong view, care to elaborate?

I would not buy Lepin while it looks ok from a distance it would annoy me too much knowing it was fake. I would buy a Lepin instruction book for 10179 if I could get one without the set to go with it!

This article is interesting. http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2014/02/06/kiddicraft-the-company-lego-ripped-off-to-make-plastic-bricks
History repeating itself?

Rhyme

Fratello wrote: »

This article is interesting. http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2014/02/06/kiddicraft-the-company-lego-ripped-off-to-make-plastic-bricks
History repeating itself?

In Lego's battles with clones, a few international courts have ruled that the 'interlocking brick' patent is unreasonable and unenforceable. If such a case between Kiddicraft and Lego were to appear in a court today, it wouldn't make it very far.

Lego have since moved on to enforcing their copyright on the minifig design and the copyrights associated with their own designed product. It's why companies like Sluban can exist with impunity (original designs and differently designed minifigs) and Lepin get taken to court so often.

NinjaTruncs

I can see the draw of Lepin, particularly when you look at 10179, even if they don't do a clone of the new version you can pick up a UCS Falcon for less than €200. but when you don't have to pay for R&D, packaging or licencing fees, of course, you can sell a similar product for much less than the original. Although Lego have to hold part of the blame for the popularity of Lepin, as they move towards higher priced sets they are opening themselves up to companies like Lepin offering a product that people just can't afford from Lego.

Personally I wouldn't buy a clone set from them, however, if they came out with their own originals, that I like, I would have no problem buying some.

L1011

The clone brands QA is middling at best, physically dirty bricks are often reported. Customs can and will sieze the direct knockoffs if detected which is why they aren't sold in shops here


Most of the elements that are dear in the secondary market are out of production and the moulds destroyed - Lego do not have stock to sell. Customer Care will sell you anything in stock bit w/o the VIP points or chance of free shipping PAB provides

Necronomicon

Sleepy wrote: »

That's a pretty strong view, care to elaborate?

Where to begin.

These companies are leeches, profiting off the IP and creativity of others. And it's not just the multi billion dollar LEGO, but many well known MOCcers are having their creations stolen and sets produced from them.

While I haven't built one myself, the quality is an obvious issue. I accept the knock offs are getting better (which worries me) but I've read enough reviews to know that the quality is still specious.

I hate what the knock off phenomenon has done to the secondary market for minifigures. The proliferation of fake minifigures means I don't buy them on eBay or Adverts.ie anymore, because I don't trust that I'll get the real thing. I've reported fake minifigs on Adverts but they say the listings are fair game if they don't have 'LEGO' in the body, which is crap IMO.

I just don't understand why anyone who loves the product would be happy with knock offs in their collection. Generally I'm not one to judge how other people go about their lives, each to their own and all that, but I think these knock offs harm the hobby that I love, which is why I feel as strongly as I do.

Sleepy

I think there's an argument that the existence of such knock-offs, and any growing sales of them in the Western world, should have a competitive effect on the original. While clearly an inferior good, the very existence of Lepin and the likes should have a downward effect on the prices that TLG can charge and, lets face it, they certainly know how to charge!

Virtanen

I have a handful of knock-offs in my collection

Most recently I got one of Fallingwater (21005). Since the Lego version is out of production, any semi-decent one would set you back an amount approaching three figures. Alternatively, you can get a micro-blocks knock-off that looks identical (minus the scale, obviously) for 1/3 of the price

I also managed to lose some of my figures from my Arkham Asylum Breakout (10937), and it was cheaper to replace them with knock-offs than Lego ones. And I have no problem displaying those figures along with the Lego ones, they are about 90% the quality, and virtually indistinguishable unless you were intentionally looking for knock-offs

I just love building sets in general, I'm not too fussy about limiting myself to one particular brand. But, as Necro said above, each to their own

Necronomicon

Sleepy wrote: »

I think there's an argument that the existence of such knock-offs, and any growing sales of them in the Western world, should have a competitive effect on the original. While clearly an inferior good, the very existence of Lepin and the likes should have a downward effect on the prices that TLG can charge and, lets face it, they certainly know how to charge!

I disagree.

A healthy competitive effect would be another building bricks company (let's say Megablocks for the sake of argument) upping their game by coming up with great new flagship sets, acquiring new licences, process innovations, etc.

What happens if Lepin sales grow in the West? More people buy their products, their manufacturing (cloning) processes become more sophisticated, they can rip off LEGO sets with ever more accuracy. The more Lepin grows in stature, the more it begins to eat into TLG's bottom line. Ultimately this will compromise TLG's ability to keep producing sets, because average Joe parent doesn't see the point in spending money on the real thing when a pretty decent knock-off is available for the fraction of the cost. TLG's energies aren't being spent on innovating and improving to stay ahead of the competition, coming up with better designs, etc. - it is spent on legal battles, trying to figure out how to protect its IP from the manufacturers of knock-offs, and so on. There would be fewer great sets that Lepin could knock off in the first instance.

Rhyme

I don't think it would go that far. Lepin exists as a 'small' anomaly in Lego's monthly statement. Small enough that the Chinese court system blocks any attempts at justice. If it got bigger they'd have Lego, Disney and LucasFilm etc knocking at their door and they'd be forced to capitulate.

Necronomicon

Rhyme wrote: »

I don't think it would go that far. Lepin exists as a 'small' anomaly in Lego's monthly statement. Small enough that the Chinese court system blocks any attempts at justice. If it got bigger they'd have Lego, Disney and LucasFilm etc knocking at their door and they'd be forced to capitulate.

They see it as a big enough threat to have started legal action (not that I think it will get very far, mind). What I found quite telling is that they released a statement via LEGO fan sites rather than through their own press release - most likely they don't want to alert a larger audience about the existence of Lepin.

Rhyme

Necronomicon wrote: »

They see it as a big enough threat to have started legal action (not that I think it will get very far, mind).

That's what I was referring to. They've submitted a few cases to the Chinese courts with no results but they've always been submitted on behalf of Lego and nobody else. If Lepin were a big enough problem or drain on profits, you'd have Disney and Lucasfilm wading in alongside Lego.

That said, Disney have also started legal action against Chinese manufacturers (specifically for a 'Cars' knockoff) so maybe Disney are happy to let Lego cross the minefield that is trying to get China to admit it's copyright enforcement is severely lacklustre.

Lego's price hikes and hit-and-miss strategies over the past few years will have more contemporary damage than Lepin could ever hope to manage (Lego's profits faltered for the first time since 2004 this year, dropping from 3.5billion to 3.4billion kroner).

Necronomicon

Rhyme wrote: »

That's what I was referring to. They've submitted a few cases to the Chinese courts with no results but they've always been submitted on behalf of Lego and nobody else. If Lepin were a big enough problem or drain on profits, you'd have Disney and Lucasfilm wading in alongside Lego.

That said, Disney have also started legal action against Chinese manufacturers (specifically for a 'Cars' knockoff) so maybe Disney are happy to let Lego cross the minefield that is trying to get China to admit it's copyright enforcement is severely lacklustre.

I'm surprised they're not, given how notoriously precious Disney is about its IP. Recently Jangbricks, for most people's money the best reviewer of LEGO out there, was issued with a takedown notice for his reviews of The Last Jedi sets. He bought them at retail, two days before they should have been made available. He implied that the notice (issued by TLG) was at the behest of Disney.

Rhyme wrote: »

Lego's price hikes and hit-and-miss strategies over the past few years will have more contemporary damage than Lepin could ever hope to manage (Lego's profits faltered for the first time since 2004 this year, dropping from 3.5billion to 3.4billion kroner).

I think the price hike thing is a bit of a myth. There's a really interesting piece of research that has shown that the price of LEGO has actually remained pretty consistent over the last couple of decades. The author of the research attributes the perceived hike to other factors, such as the increasing amount of large scale sets aimed at adult fans with more disposable income. That might be a fair observation - seven of the largest sets ever have been released in the last five years. Or it might be that there's a wider proliferation of licensed sets these days, which are a few cents higher per piece than unlicensed. Here's the original research.

I'm not sure which hit-and-miss strategies you refer to - could you elaborate? Surely profits falling for the first time since 2004 shows a pretty remarkable run of sustained success, including becoming the world's largest toy manufacturer only three years ago.

Rhyme

Necronomicon wrote: »

I'm surprised they're not, given how notoriously precious Disney is about its IP. Recently Jangbricks, for most people's money the best reviewer of LEGO out there, was issued with a takedown notice for his reviews of The Last Jedi sets. He bought them at retail, two days before they should have been made available. He implied that the notice (issued by TLG) was at the behest of Disney.

I was pretty surprised over that. I know Disney can come down hard on the smallest of 'foes', but a Youtube channel saying how great the sets are?

Necronomicon wrote: »

I think the price hike thing is a bit of a myth. There's a really interesting piece of research that has shown that the price of LEGO has actually remained pretty consistent over the last couple of decades. The author of the research attributes the perceived hike to other factors, such as the increasing amount of large scale sets aimed at adult fans with more disposable income. That might be a fair observation - seven of the largest sets ever have been released in the last five years. Or it might be that there's a wider proliferation of licensed sets these days, which are a few cents higher per piece than unlicensed. Here's the original research.

I'm not sure which hit-and-miss strategies you refer to - could you elaborate? Surely profits falling for the first time since 2004 shows a pretty remarkable run of sustained success, including becoming the world's largest toy manufacturer only three years ago.

Sorry, 'hike' was the wrong word. Less affordable sets and the wobbling on prices on licensed sets (the price per brick on Star Wars sets goes off in all directions) as well as discrepancies based on what country you buy Lego. I'll read that article, thanks.

The hit-and-miss is on larger and D2C sets. Plenty of scope of quality, playability etc. The latest Christmas set for example is a tricky one, you sort-of need last years train to complete it.

EDIT: We're getting off topic

PaddyFagan

Hi Folks,

I've been lurking on this thread - but felt I had to chip in.

In general I'd be very much on the side of protecting the rights of the IP owners, TLG, Disney etc. However, the mental prices that retired sets demand, means that I bought a Lepin set earlier in the year. I was away from Lego (busy with young kids of my own) when 10212 was available - but the Imperial Shuttle has been a favorite of mine since the 80's. I couldn't justify to myself (or my wife!) the prices for an original 10212 set, and I'll be honest bricklinking it would have driven me bonkers.

So for < $100 I took a chance on a Lepin set - it's not perfect, there was two malformed blocks (out of 2,500 odd) and the quality isn't the same as the real thing. BUT - did I enjoy building it, yes! Am I happy with the result, yes! Would I ever describe it as Lego, no!

I wouldn't buy any Lepin set where I could get a Lego one for close to RRP, but I have feel that the rate at which sets are retired and the mental prices that follow is going to drive a market for 'knock-offs' of one sort or another. TLG (and/or Disney etc) can try and chase these makers and sellers down - but it's a fight I don't think they can ever win.... I'd suggest they do some official post-retirement version - with a per piece price model, no boxes, whatever. Yes, it would cause up roar with those 'investing' in the retired sets - but if they don't then I think they're just driving the market for Lepin and others to keep growing.

Paddy

Rhyme

PaddyFagan wrote: »

I wouldn't buy any Lepin set where I could get a Lego one for close to RRP, but I have feel that the rate at which sets are retired and the mental prices that follow is going to drive a market for 'knock-offs' of one sort or another.

I agree completely. I have my eye on the Saturn V set and/or the Snowspeeder set at the moment but wouldn't even consider getting a Lepin version of them as they are both still available (somewhat). I would consider doing so completely against my 'Lego values'. Running the thought through my head feels like a weird sort of betrayal. Odd.

However, once a set retires and quadruples in price and halves in availability, those values get a bit softer and greyer around the edges. I could never justify or afford the Rebel Blockade Runner UCS set at 1500* dollars for a sealed set but I could have afforded it at the RRP of 200 dollars. So I don't feel guilt if I bought Lepin in that regard.

*current cheapest sealed copy on Bricklink.

Da Regulator

I've made a very tidy profit selling lepin and made a lot of parents happy saving lots of euros. Who cares?