Armstrong Cup 2017/2018

cdeb

No real surprises at the break so, other than Trinity and Dublin's lack of form. The two promoted sides are already a bit adrift, and Gonzaga have a bit of a gap at the top, having already played Elm Mount, Trinity and Kilkenny.

Two games adjourned in Balbriggan v Trinity still, and one in Gonzaga v St Benildus B

Pos	Team	        MP	Pts
1	Gonzaga	        4.875	28    
2	Elm Mount	5	26 1/2
3	St Benildus A	5	26 1/2
4	Dublin	        5	22    
5	Kilkenny	5	21    
6	Dún Laoghaire	5	19 1/2
7	Trinity	        4.75	18 1/2
8	Balbriggan	4.75	17 1/2
9	Bray/Greystones	5	16 1/2
10	Rathmines	5	16    
11	Curragh	        5	14    
12	St Benildus B	4.875	11

sodacat11

The title has never been in doubt,the Gonzaga Galacticos are odds on certainties to win yet again. Relegation less clear but certainly looking tough for the newbies unless they spend big in the January transfer window.

macelligott

There could be a big battle for 2nd place :-)

Rathminor

St Benildus B 2.5 Rathmines 5.5

EnPassant

Elm Mount 6½ Curragh 1½ ( 5 wins, 3 draws)

cdeb

Trinity 2.5-4.5 St Benildus A, with one game to go

L1m1tless

Curragh 2.5 Kilkenny 5.5

cdeb

Balbriggan 3-5 St Benildus B.

With a 9-year-old on board 8. Maybe a record of some kind?

cdeb

Also Curragh 2.5-5.5 Kilkenny. Means we're actually out of tyre relegation zone for a few days as I think Bray v Gonzaga was postponed for the 4NCL?

Retd.LoyolaCpt

cdeb wrote: »

Also Curragh 2.5-5.5 Kilkenny. Means we're actually out of tyre relegation zone for a few days as I think Bray v Gonzaga was postponed for the 4NCL?

Gonzaga 6-2 bray

cdeb

Booo!

Tim Harding

Trinity 2.5 Elm Mount 5.5 (five draws). We were missing Ioana, Jacob and Rory.

macelligott

St.Benildus v Dun Laoghaire Round 7 result anybody?

cdeb

4½-3½ win for Benildus

Rathminor

Rathmines 5.5 Bray/Greystones 2.5

Tim Harding

So with Gonzaga-Dublin CC due to be played next weekend to complete round 7, the totals so far are:

Elm Mount 38.5
Benildus A 36
Gonzaga 35 [1 match to play]
Kilkenny 29.5
Dublin CC 28 [1 match to play]
Rathmines 27
Balbriggan 26.5
Dublin Univ. & Dun Laoghaire both 25.5
Bray/Greystones 21
Benildus B 18.5
Curragh 18

Benildus A still have to play both Elm Mount and Gonzaga in what could be important matches for the medal positions.
If Dublin can get a good result against Gonzaga they are still in the running because they look to have the easiest run-in, though I still expect Gonzaga to finish as champions.

Benildus B v Curragh in round 8 and Bray/Greystones v Curragh in round 9 looks like decisive match-ups for deciding the relegation stakes.
Curragh still have their fate in their own hands: win those two heavily and they could survive.

I expect the four teams above those three to struggle but survive and regroup for next season.

macelligott

Dublin could charge an enterance fee to watch their match against Gonzaga next Saturday 3rd Feb :-) An important match!

L1m1tless

Big match tomorrow for relegation spots. Benildus B VS Curragh. I predict an 0-8 result. We have been practicing very hard. :pac:

cdeb

Tis always a bit embarrassing going on the internet while drunk!

L1m1tless

ah Magnus and MVL had to cancel last minute, totally threw my prediction out.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

L1m1tless wrote: »

ah Magnus and MVL had to cancel last minute, totally threw my prediction out.

What was the score?

L1m1tless

1.5 - 6.5

mikhail

I blame Michael O'Leary, personally. He's brought this madness upon us.

macelligott

I’ve heard - on the grapevine - that the result of R7 Dublin v Gonzaga match played today stands at 3.5-3.5 with one game outstanding.

cdeb

Should have had 3 today actually.

All a little bit annoying tbh, if perfectly legal. Are they likely to be regulars? Kind of wonder what's the point dropping half your team just to get thumped again next season?

L1m1tless

Not sure, it's not my team I'm down in the Ennis trying not to blunder pieces. :pac:

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

Should have had 3 today actually.

All a little bit annoying tbh, if perfectly legal. Are they likely to be regulars? Kind of wonder what's the point dropping half your team just to get thumped again next season?

It might have something to do with all 3 of our teams playing on the one day and being short players. Two weeks ago we had BEA players playing Armstrong matches (and pulling off epic wins with 600 point rating difference....).

cdeb

I presume there's more to it than that? Sure we had three teams playing yesterday as well, including the Ennis, which we'd normally sub from; we just took a junior from our fourth team (which went very well). Just seems more in keeping with what a club should be.

And one of the guys who was kicked off the team was there yesterday too, so certainly three subs weren't needed.

Obviously it doesn't really matter as we knew we were going down anyway, but if ye flew in three 2000+ mates of a player from Spain just for one game because ye were short, then that's rather unfair on us.

bduffy

I suppose that's the crux of the matter....we had all of our teams playing, we don't have a junior squad. We ran a junior club for 5 years but it turned into a creche. We're starting again this month again, so hopefully we get some coming through as we went from 4 teams down to three in the last two years (with Enniscorthy gaining).
I suppose when it comes to higher rated players coming in, it's not unusual and has been raised at numerous AGMs.
In particular you only have to look at Gonzaga having GF playing two Board 1 games in the Heidenfeld in October, while having played Board 2 against the Curragh Armstrong in September. It's also a problem if you're being denied promotion......

cdeb

Certainly it's been done before (although at least Gonzaga declare their high-rated players at the start of the season rather than the night before the match...), but that still doesn't really answer the question of why bother. Curragh aren't strong enough to stay in the Armstrong - and nor are we; it's a tough division - so I just don't see what Curragh the club gain by flying in some ringers for a couple of games, and telling regulars they can't play this week as a result. It's not strengthening the club; if it keeps ye up this year, ye still won't be strong enough to stay up next year. We got wind of what was happening and sandbagged our team as much as we could, so the new guys didn't even get the games they could have expected.

So in the end of the day - what's the point?

L1m1tless

Joking aside I understand your points and see where youre coming from.

Personally I would jump at the chance to play someone 2000+ regardless of the outcome it's a great experience. Playing stronger opponents can only improve your game, playing in the top division is always worthwhile regardless of where you finish. Anyways there's no guarantees. Still some matches to go.

cdeb

Ironically enough, your 2200 played like a 1200 against me! Hung two pieces, which I completely missed because I simply wasn't looking for a 2200 to be hanging pieces. So I learned less from that than I probably ought to have.

Anyways, I've played against plenty of 2000s, particularly in the last year with the Armstrong and the European Cup, and by and large, it's over-rated (if you'll pardon the pun). The gap is too big to be really beneficial.

But I think bringing in players is what turned the NCC into a farce of a tournament for years. This game is what got the rules changed to stop new players being flown in for the last day of the leagues. And I think yesterday's game - even if the three stay on for next week's game - is comparable in terms of undermining the point of the competition. It's a bit like that Simpsons episode where they're playing doubles tennis, and then each replace themselves with a world-class player to boost their team (I can only find it in Spanish, but you'll get the idea).

As I say, completely in accordance with the rules, and didn't affect the fact that we were getting relegated anyway. But the question still remains as to what ye actually gain from it, particularly your players who were booted off the team for yesterday's game.

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

But the question still remains as to what ye actually gain from it, particularly your players who were booted off the team for yesterday's game.

Maybe they got to see the Rugby......I played reckless chess to finish my game early in Div 3.....and survived....and saw the last half hour and the drop goal of the season.....which is all anybody will remember yesterday for!

cdeb

Gonzaga 4-4 Dublin

undisputed

This is getting interesting. Gonzaga are just half point ahead now.

cdeb

Curragh 2.5-5.5 Bray

Curragh had a 1000 on 6, and a 1800 on 1. Makes a joke of the league when you compare that team to the one they had last week.

They've no business being an Armstrong club tbh.

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

Curragh 2.5-5.5 Bray

Curragh had a 1000 on 6, and a 1800 on 1. Makes a joke of the league when you compare that team to the one they had last week.

They've no business being an Armstrong club tbh.

Without rising to the bait......this is the catch with small clubs, there have been 20 different players used to date...essentially the whole club. With birthdays and weddings a request went out to Bray to play games in advance but it was declined.

cdeb

It's not bait; it's a feeling shared by others too. "Dickish" was one comment to me from another club, for example.

Yes, you can be short players, but flying in foreign mates defeats the point of the league. Sure we could have done it if we'd wanted - but what would it have proven?

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

It's not bait; it's a feeling shared by others too. "Dickish" was one comment to me from another club, for example.

Yes, you can be short players, but flying in foreign mates defeats the point of the league. Sure we could have done it if we'd wanted - but what would it have proven?

The same comment could be used to describe teams not agreeing to play games in advance. There are players in this club living in Longford, Laois and Wexford......larger than most club's catchment.
Just out of interest, will anyone give out over SM and SJ playing their one game of the year for Gonzaga against Balbriggan?

cdeb

I don't know the circumstances of Bray not rearranging games, so I can't comment. If they had a full team for the Saturday though, there'd be no reason for them to rearrange. It'd be nice of them to rearrange, but it certainly wouldn't be dickish not to in those circumstances.

I don't know what your catchment area has to do with anything?

If Jessel and Maze play against Balbriggan, it won't be their only game.

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

I don't know the circumstances of Bray not rearranging games, so I can't comment.

If Jessel and Maze play against Balbriggan, it won't be their only game.

As far as I know they were asked about playing mid week in their club and declined the request.

History might repeat itself.......http://www.leinsterchess.com/players/code7517.htm
Not fair to Heidenfeld clubs playing Gonzaga in the early rounds....

cdeb

But were they asked at short notice? It wouldn't be an issue to refuse then.

Did they have a full team already set for the Saturday? Why rearrange if so?

It's not comparable behaviour at all.

bduffy

cdeb wrote: »

But were they asked at short notice? It wouldn't be an issue to refuse then.

Did they have a full team already set for the Saturday? Why rearrange if so?

It's not comparable behaviour at all.

No worries, we all have opinions.
They were asked to oblige by playing at home and save travelling on a Saturday but chose not to (as is their right).

The other item shouldn't be ignored either, but it's just my opinion.....

cdeb

It's not an opinion that they're not comparable; it's a fact

macelligott

Round 8:
Elm Mount 4.5-3.5 St.Benildus “A”

macelligott

Round 8 Dun Laoghaire 1-7 Gonzaga

macelligott

What was result R8 Kilkenny v Dublin Universary anybody ?

Tim Harding

macelligott wrote: »

What was result R8 Kilkenny v Dublin Universary anybody ?

I was not there but I am told Kilkenny scored 6.5 pts and I suspect Trinity only had five or six players. I don't know any individual results.

Last year (before Karl McPhillips defected back to his old club) we murdered them although we were away then also. This year Trinity will be relying on the weakness of others to avoid relegation, I suspect, especially as we face Dublin in the last round.

However, the other matches are against Bray and Benildus B, with some prospect of winning if our captain can field eight players on those occasions.

cdeb

On a similar note, I believe Curragh actually scratched board 3 v Bray (the live boards give the game as 1. e4), so tree score there was actually 5.5-1.5.

Are Trinity and Curragh competing with each other to bring the league into disrepute? The season is too short to be giving some clubs effective points headstarts on others, even allowing for the provision in the league rules for play-offs.

Trinity in particular should be fined I think (in accordance with rule 5.3) Can you imagine, say, a League of Ireland team turning up to a match with ten players, or playing their u17 team in one match and the first team in another?

There's some ridiculous carry-on this season

L1m1tless

We are all trying our best. In the end, the natural order will be restored.