Who is the best player in the world at the moment?

Rekop dog

Rekop dog wrote: »

Aside from the world cup final, 3 copa America finals, two of which they lost on Pens. Ronaldo wasn't even on the pitch for most of that final so not sure how you think this separates them.

As you note, Messi has no major winners medal at international level.

It's why, for me, he'll never be at the top table alongside Maradona. Just never had the same impact. And hence why his relationship with Argentinian fans never remotely reached the same level of intensity or reverence.

Ronaldo, on the other hand, seems to invest a huge amount into succeeding at that level. For Messi it seems like an inconvenience.

Giggsy11

Deleted User wrote: »

As you note, Messi has no major winners medal at international level.

It's why, for me, he'll never be at the top table alongside Maradona. Just never had the same impact. And hence why his relationship with Argentinian fans never remotely reached the same level of intensity or reverence.

Ronaldo, on the other hand, seems to invest a huge amount into succeeding at that level. For Messi it seems like an inconvenience.

One knock out competition won't determine who is the best player or who is the GOAT. Players don't even play together for long so there isn't any chemistry between the players in most teams, why is that such a important criteria?

Football is a team game and to win any trophies you need help from other 10 players too.

The Golden Miller

Neymar

Deleted User wrote: »

As you note, Messi has no major winners medal at international level.

It's why, for me, he'll never be at the top table alongside Maradona. Just never had the same impact. And hence why his relationship with Argentinian fans never remotely reached the same level of intensity or reverence.

Ronaldo, on the other hand, seems to invest a huge amount into succeeding at that level. For Messi it seems like an inconvenience.

What do you mean he seems to invest a huge amount at international level, moreso than Messi? Another one of these hollow soundbites like Ronaldo has more "drive" than any other player, a metric which can't be gauged in any meaningful way. Many crap players have won international medals, although it doesn't necessarily mean they were the architect of the teams success like Maradona once was. To rate their international exploits means applying context. Ronaldo was poor for much of Portugal's campaign and had little to do with their ultimate triumph, it was about their system, so to use this as a measurement of Ronaldo "doing it at international level" to hold over Messi is laughable.

Although I'd agree with the Maradona comment, he's still the best of all time for me. When his teams backs were against the wall, Maradona stood 10 feet taller and dragged the team kicking and screaming to greater heights. His leadership serperates him from Messi, although Messi improved an awful lot in that department last season. Messi is a sublime playmaker, but Maradona had that bit more craft and nous

derfderf

Lionel Messi

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Another one of these hollow soundbites like Ronaldo has more "drive" than any other player, a metric which can't be gauged in any meaningful way.

............


Maradona had that bit more craft and nous

Do you gauge nous per 90 minutes or over the course of the season?

Rayne Wooney

Lionel Messi

Ronaldo got better as he got older Messi seemed to slump when the legends left Barca.

Ronaldo ahead now and should equal Messi's Balon D'Or haul this year.

bucketybuck

Lionel Messi

The Golden Miller wrote: »

hollow soundbites

Indeed.

it was about their system

stood 10 feet taller and dragged the team kicking and screaming to greater heights.

His leadership

had that bit more craft and nous

Skylinehead

Neymar

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ronaldo got better as he got older Messi seemed to slump when the legends left Barca.

Ronaldo ahead now and should equal Messi's Balon D'Or haul this year.

Have you seen Messi recently? I know what they say about opinions, but yours is wrong there. Slump, jesus.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Neymar

Deleted User wrote: »

Hard to separate them at club level, but at international level Ronaldo has that Euro 2016 medal, whereas Messi...I think the biggest news he made at international level was the whole retiring/unretiring thing...

Ronaldo getting injured in that final was probably more of a benefit to Portugals chances than a hindrance.

The Golden Miller

Neymar

derfderf wrote: »

Do you gauge nous per 90 minutes or over the course of the season?

Yes Maradona was a better playmaker and I used a descriptive word to emphasise that. Saying Ronaldo has more drive than any other player is completely baseless and is not an onfield attribute

The Golden Miller

Neymar

bucketybuck wrote: »

Indeed.

Care to explain how making comments about onfield play is comparable to baseless offield soundbites?

irishman86

Lionel Messi

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Yeah true but even at Barca I thought he was a class above in his last season. We'll see.

He was poor compared to previous seasons last year

Dirty Dingus McGee

Neymar

irishman86 wrote: »

He was poor compared to previous seasons last year

Messi was outstanding last season problem was the rest of the team were below their usual level.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Rekop dog wrote: »

Aside from the world cup final, 3 copa America finals, two of which they lost on Pens. Ronaldo wasn't even on the pitch for most of that final so not sure how you think this separates them.

I agree with you but Argentina should be making copa finals, they should win them to get to three and not win one is scandalous
Not a slight against Messi like you said but you cant use it to give him acclaim either. Ronaldo has out performed Messi at international level regardless of the euros
Messi winning the player of the tournament at the last one to this day pisses me off when he wasnt even the best Argentine :mad:
But tbh there has been Balon D'ors i dont think either Ronaldo/Messi should have won, pretty much a popularity contest

Skylinehead

Neymar

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Messi was outstanding last season problem was the rest of the team were below their usual level.

Think he's referring to Neymar there

irishman86

Lionel Messi

The Golden Miller wrote: »

What do you mean he seems to invest a huge amount at international level, moreso than Messi? Another one of these hollow soundbites like Ronaldo has more "drive" than any other player, a metric which can't be gauged in any meaningful way. Many crap players have won international medals, although it doesn't necessarily mean they were the architect of the teams success like Maradona once was. To rate their international exploits means applying context. Ronaldo was poor for much of Portugal's campaign and had little to do with their ultimate triumph, it was about their system, so to use this as a measurement of Ronaldo "doing it at international level" to hold over Messi is laughable.

Although I'd agree with the Maradona comment, he's still the best of all time for me. When his teams backs were against the wall, Maradona stood 10 feet taller and dragged the team kicking and screaming to greater heights. His leadership serperates him from Messi, although Messi improved an awful lot in that department last season. Messi is a sublime playmaker, but Maradona had that bit more craft and nous

Ignoring everything Ronaldo contributed to getting the the final, then yes everything you say is true :pac:
As for Maradonnas leadership qualities :pac::pac:

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Messi was outstanding last season problem was the rest of the team were below their usual level.

I agree, he was amazing, showed his doubters were talking nonsense about a decline
Anyways back to Neymar, i felt last season he wasnt as stellar as the previous year

IncognitoMan

Neymar is a million miles away from that standard and playing in the French league is only going to count against him.

For Neymar to even be in the conversation he has to be far and away the best player in the champions league. If it's anyway close between him and say a Messi or Ronaldo then the edge goes to them for playing and scoring at a higher standard.

Bafetimbi Gomis got 20 in France last season like :pac:

Irish_rat

Lionel Messi

Probably a bit controversial but drugs help too. The Big Spanish teams have the best of the best.

The Golden Miller

Neymar

irishman86 wrote: »

Ignoring everything Ronaldo contributed to getting the the final, then yes everything you say is true :pac:
As for Maradonnas leadership qualities :pac::pac:

Many others also helped Portugal get to the final, Ronaldo's few goals in the main tournament helped of course, but they would of qualified for the tournament with or without his goals. That's not to downplay what he contributed in the actual tournament, but others also contributed and Ronaldo simply wasnt their best player. The point of this thread is comparing the current best in the world and Ronaldo's Euro exploits do little to further the argument he outperforms Messi at international level, it's the opposite if anything.

Now as you say, Argentina should always be competing for trophies. In theory that is true as they have arguably the most talented individuals in the world and nearly always do, even moreso than Brazil (certainly produce better number 10s than Brazil). But without context that is to be ignorant as to what has happened to the international team since Riquelme came off in the 2006 world cup basically. Since then they have been horrendously managed to the point it's impossible to thrive under such circumstances, which is in stark contrast to the team they were during the 2006 tournament. Played some of the best possession based football international football had seen in years.

Maradona was a great player but terrible manager. Argentina were like headless chickens under him, and he sent the team back years. He left Zanetti at home from the world cup after he won the treble with Inter and played Gutierrez at right back was it? Fought with the best natural playmaker of the last 20 years in Riquelme, to the point he walked. Trusted Veron to be their creative fulcrum over Aimar and Messi and many would argue he done his best to stifle Messis influence as his ego got in the way. Didn't he say Mascherano was the player most similar to him during that tournament? Argentina were a circus. Messi and Aimar were also disgracefully overlooked in the 2006 world cup in favour of Maxi Rodriguez.

Then the next manager for the following world cup came in and went ultra defensive as they had went back so far offensively under Maradona and there was no time to right that wrong. The plan was to basically defend and give Messi the ball at the half way line and let him do the rest all by himself. Under the circumstances he actually did very well and they got to the final. Messi wasnt the best player in the tournament but was still impressive under the constraints the team played in.

I'm baffled as to why you made a sneery comment about me saying Maradona was a great leader as a player? One of the best leaders of all time and the most exceptionally complete player we're ever likely to see along with Cruyff. Messi is basically Maradona without being quite the playmaker Maradona was and without his leadership qualities (but Messi is getting better in that department as last season showed).

As I've said before, any opinion that strays from the soundbite "they are both the best players, we should just enjoy both" is ridiculed. Ronaldo is one of the best goalscorers of all time, but thats not good enough when comparing him to Messi, or indeed Maradona or Cruyff. Goals ratio's are where the debate ends, and even on that point Messi regularly outscores Ronaldo from a deeper position on the field while having less chances. Messi is also one of best technically gifted playermakers in the world, which leaves Ronaldo lagging way behind in this discussion. That's just the way it is.

Im also baffled by how acknowledging Ronaldo as one of the best goalscorers of all time, while pointing out blatant deficiencies as a complete technical player in open play, is a slight on the guy. I place him in the same bracket as the great goalscorers like Gerd Muller, De Stefano, Puskas etc but that still gains ridicule. But I guess some people won't be happy until he's generally considered to be in the Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo, Pele, Messi, Maradona etc bracket, but you simply can't improve by working on the technical side of your game. You either naturally have that creative playmaking attribute or you don't, pointing out Ronaldo doesn't have it relatively speaking compared to others isn't a slight on him, merely an observation

PhlegmyMoses

I don't believe that you watched enough of those players that you are referencing in your post, Golden Miller, to make any sort of statement about whether they were better than Ronaldo.

NIMAN

Neymar

Maybe this thread would be better if Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar were excluded from the options?

Or it was worded differently? Like who do you love watching play the game?

For me, likes of Isco, Modric, Chiellini, Cavani would be near the top of the list. And really thought Rabiot looked sublime v Celtic.

Shanotheslayer

Neymar

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe this thread would be better if Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar were excluded from the options?

Or it was worded differently? Like who do you love watching play the game?

For me, likes of Isco, Modric, Chiellini, Cavani would be near the top of the list. And really thought Rabiot looked sublime v Celtic.

Modric is outstanding, definitely the best midfielder in the world right now and to me he's on the same level as Xavi and Iniesta in their prime.

Asensio is going to be the next Ballon D'or winner after the big two I think. He looks like he just has 'it'

Lionel Messi

What of Toni Kross?

brevity

Neymar

While Messi hasn't necessarily been surrounded by donkeys, I think Ronaldo has benefited from being in better squads or more stable clubs.

Barcelona and Argentina are run by nutters.

Rekop dog

Neymar

M!Ck^ wrote: »

What of Toni Kross?

I'd have Kroos at clear number 3. Probably my favourite player to watch as he's just ultra intelligent and rarely makes a bad decision. Think he was a vital cog in Bayern's all dominant side and I don't think they've reached the same heights since his departure, and he definitely pushed Madrid to another level since joining. Was outstanding in the World Cup as well and basically gets in every team of the tournament at club and country level. The guy is just win.

GavRedKing

Neymar

Whats more outstanding than Kross was his value at the time, 25m Madrid paid for him. It was a bargain then and 3 years on, it looks like an absolute steal when you see the transfer fees doing the rounds for good players that are levels below him.

Lukker-

Neymar

Messi and Ronaldo are equally important to both teams IMO.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Many others also helped Portugal get to the final, Ronaldo's few goals in the main tournament helped of course, but they would of qualified for the tournament with or without his goals. That's not to downplay what he contributed in the actual tournament, but others also contributed and Ronaldo simply wasnt their best player. The point of this thread is comparing the current best in the world and Ronaldo's Euro exploits do little to further the argument he outperforms Messi at international level, it's the opposite if anything.

Now as you say, Argentina should always be competing for trophies. In theory that is true as they have arguably the most talented individuals in the world and nearly always do, even moreso than Brazil (certainly produce better number 10s than Brazil). But without context that is to be ignorant as to what has happened to the international team since Riquelme came off in the 2006 world cup basically. Since then they have been horrendously managed to the point it's impossible to thrive under such circumstances, which is in stark contrast to the team they were during the 2006 tournament. Played some of the best possession based football international football had seen in years.

Maradona was a great player but terrible manager. Argentina were like headless chickens under him, and he sent the team back years. He left Zanetti at home from the world cup after he won the treble with Inter and played Gutierrez at right back was it? Fought with the best natural playmaker of the last 20 years in Riquelme, to the point he walked. Trusted Veron to be their creative fulcrum over Aimar and Messi and many would argue he done his best to stifle Messis influence as his ego got in the way. Didn't he say Mascherano was the player most similar to him during that tournament? Argentina were a circus. Messi and Aimar were also disgracefully overlooked in the 2006 world cup in favour of Maxi Rodriguez.

Then the next manager for the following world cup came in and went ultra defensive as they had went back so far offensively under Maradona and there was no time to right that wrong. The plan was to basically defend and give Messi the ball at the half way line and let him do the rest all by himself. Under the circumstances he actually did very well and they got to the final. Messi wasnt the best player in the tournament but was still impressive under the constraints the team played in.

I'm baffled as to why you made a sneery comment about me saying Maradona was a great leader as a player? One of the best leaders of all time and the most exceptionally complete player we're ever likely to see along with Cruyff. Messi is basically Maradona without being quite the playmaker Maradona was and without his leadership qualities (but Messi is getting better in that department as last season showed).

As I've said before, any opinion that strays from the soundbite "they are both the best players, we should just enjoy both" is ridiculed. Ronaldo is one of the best goalscorers of all time, but thats not good enough when comparing him to Messi, or indeed Maradona or Cruyff. Goals ratio's are where the debate ends, and even on that point Messi regularly outscores Ronaldo from a deeper position on the field while having less chances. Messi is also one of best technically gifted playermakers in the world, which leaves Ronaldo lagging way behind in this discussion. That's just the way it is.

Im also baffled by how acknowledging Ronaldo as one of the best goalscorers of all time, while pointing out blatant deficiencies as a complete technical player in open play, is a slight on the guy. I place him in the same bracket as the great goalscorers like Gerd Muller, De Stefano, Puskas etc but that still gains ridicule. But I guess some people won't be happy until he's generally considered to be in the Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo, Pele, Messi, Maradona etc bracket, but you simply can't improve by working on the technical side of your game. You either naturally have that creative playmaking attribute or you don't, pointing out Ronaldo doesn't have it relatively speaking compared to others isn't a slight on him, merely an observation

Thats as far as i got before laughing, im sorry i tried though
Your "facts" are hilarious

Too Tough To Die

Neymar

Messi. It's been that way for about 12 years.

Arghus

Neymar

I'm going to go with a controversial opinion here and say - Messi.

RobertKK

Lionel Messi

Ronaldo, bringing success to Portugal and Real Madrid.

Nalz

Lionel Messi

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Messi. It's been that way for about 12 years.

No

Too Tough To Die

Neymar

Nalz wrote: »

No

Yes. I think if a more talented player emerged i'd have heard about it.

Nalz

Lionel Messi

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Yes. I think if a more talented player emerged i'd have heard about it.

No. He has not been the best the past 12 years.

Lionel Messi

Ronaldo does it again

brevity

Neymar

Ronaldo has been the most successful but I don’t think if he’s better than Messi.

If anything it shows the benefits of being surrounded by an excellent set of players.

Messi had it, he reaped the rewards. Now Ronaldo has it and he’s catching up.

JimmyMcGill

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ronaldo does it again

What did he do?

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Ronaldo does it again

Takes him level with Messi on 5.

Ronaldo has more UEFA player of the year awards.

They have the same number of CL wins.

Messi has more Spanish titles, but of course Ronaldo has multiple titles with different clubs in different countries.

Still, for all that...neither up with Maradona...

fatbhoy

Kevin de Bruyne

tastyt

Messi and ronaldo are the two best to ever play the game.

Nobody has ever come close to their consistency in goalscoring and performance, and honours.

Add to that every single minute of every game they have probably ever played professionally is on tape, while many others backbin the day could get away with off days that nobody ever saw.

The only stick to possibly beat them with at this stage is they haven't won a world cup but its just a silly argument in this day and age.

For the record, for me its messi, there could not have possibly ever been a more consistently special player

tastyt

tastyt wrote: »

The only stick to possibly beat them with at this stage is they haven't won a world cup but its just a silly argument in this day and age.

I think differently. Why would pointing to the pinnacle of achievement in football be a "just a silly argument"?

If anything, in these days of very expensively assembled club squads, I think pointing to the achievements of clubs that spend billions should not reduce the achievements of those who did it with international squads that were not brought together on the basis of a chequebook.

Neymar

Ronaldo had the best year, no doubt tbh.

Ronaldo fanboys versus Messi fanboys definitely produces the funniest arguments.

mada999

Deleted User wrote: »

Still, for all that...neither up with Maradona...

agreed...

Neymar

Maradonna probably still my favourite alright.

I'd almost always choose watching highlights of him over the other two when browsing video highlights

irishman86

Lionel Messi

tastyt wrote: »

Messi and ronaldo are the two best to ever play the game.

Nobody has ever come close to their consistency in goalscoring and performance, and honours.

Add to that every single minute of every game they have probably ever played professionally is on tape, while many others backbin the day could get away with off days that nobody ever saw.

The only stick to possibly beat them with at this stage is they haven't won a world cup but its just a silly argument in this day and age.

For the record, for me its messi, there could not have possibly ever been a more consistently special player

So anyone that thinks different to you is wrong..... uh ok

Bridge93

Why do team achievements matter in an individual debate? By this World Cup reckoning, George Best wouldn't be in the top 100 to play the game considering he never even went to a World Cup never mind won one.

Messi is the best there has ever been for me in both natural ability and how he's stayed at the top of the game for so long. Ronaldo right up there in the higher echelons but Messi for me

Lionel Messi

Best mates

https://twitter.com/abo_maaher/status/922573845348929536

Iang87

Neymar

Deleted User wrote: »

I think differently. Why would pointing to the pinnacle of achievement in football be a "just a silly argument"?

If anything, in these days of very expensively assembled club squads, I think pointing to the achievements of clubs that spend billions should not reduce the achievements of those who did it with international squads that were not brought together on the basis of a chequebook.

It is a nonsense argument. If you think of it in terms of Higuain missing a sitter in a World Cup Final has a bearing on Messi's greatness

Liam McPoyle

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Ronaldo had the best year, no doubt tbh.

Ronaldo fanboys versus Messi fanboys definitely produces the funniest arguments.

Somewhere, in a darkened room, there is a man in his Pep pyjamas writing angry missives about Ronaldo winning it again, waiting, watching.....

GavRedKing

Neymar

Just on the FIFA awards, Duncan Castles voting Mourinho the best coach is the most Duncan Castles thing I've seen today. :pac: