Who is the best player in the world at the moment?

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

Just on the FIFA awards, Duncan Castles voting Mourinho the best coach is the most Duncan Castles thing I've seen today. :pac:

Hazard voted Kante as the best player in the world :pac:

GavRedKing

Neymar

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Hazard voted Kante as the best player in the world :pac:

At a browse, Kante got a few 1st round picks, strangely, but in voting isnt exactly anything new.

Southgate gave his 1st pick to Kroos.

The award is a joke really when you consider Iniesta got into the team of the year starting about 15 games for Barca last year.

They should re name the award to the "players/teams that were most succesful".

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

At a browse, Kante got a few 1st round picks, strangely, but in voting isnt exactly anything new.

Southgate gave his 1st pick to Kroos.

The award is a joke really when you consider Iniesta got into the team of the year starting about 15 games for Barca last year.

They should re name the award to the "players/teams that were most succesful".

I think Jose got few more first place nominations than just from Duncan Castles too.

Yeah voting is joke. Messi and Godin named Suarez as the best player. Messi then named Iniesta (who had poor season) as second best.

It's all tactical voting.

GavRedKing

Neymar

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think Jose got few more first place nominations than just from Duncan Castles too.

Yeah voting is joke. Messi and Godin named Suarez as the best player. Messi then named Iniesta (who had poor season) as second best.

It's all tactical voting.

I've no doubt Jose got a few 1st round picks but its more the fact that Castles is basically a Jose fanboy and wherever he goes, Castles will report favourably on that club, or should I say, anything Jose does.

Journos are closer to some managers than others but Castles has head so far in Joses rear end its embarassing, his Twitter feed is usually a good source of entertainment though for irony.

GavRedKing

Lionel Messi

GavRedKing wrote: »

Just on the FIFA awards, Duncan Castles voting Mourinho the best coach is the most Duncan Castles thing I've seen today. :pac:

My Man Duncan!

Giggsy11

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've no doubt Jose got a few 1st round picks but its more the fact that Castles is basically a Jose fanboy and wherever he goes, Castles will report favourably on that club, or should I say, anything Jose does.

Journos are closer to some managers than others but Castles has head so far in Joses rear end its embarassing, his Twitter feed is usually a good source of entertainment though for irony.

Yeah him and Ballbag.

GavRedKing

Neymar

The awards for the mens best player went as is :

1 Cristiano Ronaldo 43.16%
2 Lionel Messi 19.25%
3 Neymar 6.97%
4 Gianluigi Buffon 6.82%
5 Sergio Ramos 3.34%
6 Luka Modrić 3.33%
7 Toni Kroos 2.70%
8 Marcelo 2.09%
9 N'Golo Kanté 1.35%
10 Luis Suárez 1.19%
11 Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang 1.10%
12 Paulo Dybala 1.07%
13 Eden Hazard 1.03%
14 Zlatan Ibrahimović 0.82%
15 Andrés Iniesta 0.82%
16 Robert Lewandowski 0.77%
17 Antoine Griezmann 0.67%
18 Dani Carvajal 0.62%
19 Manuel Neuer 0.58%
20 Keylor Navas 0.56%
21 Arturo Vidal 0.51%
22 Leonardo Bonucci 0.47%
23 Alexis Sánchez 0.45%
24 Harry Kane 0.33%

The coach award went as is :

1 Zinedine Zidane 46.22%
2 Antonio Conte 11.62%
3 Massimiliano Allegri 8.78%
4 Joachim Löw 7.40%
5 José Mourinho 5.28%
6 Leonardo Jardim 4.84%
7 Carlo Ancelotti 3.62%
8 Pep Guardiola 2.88%
9 Tite 2.87%
10 Diego Simeone 2.77%
11 Luis Enrique 2.00%
12 Mauricio Pochettino 1.72%

Iang87

Neymar

Looking at the voting is it fair to assume this was done in the summer because if its supposed to be an Annual award then this is hilarious

GavRedKing

Neymar

Got this from the website.

The selection criteria for the men's players of the year were: sporting performance, as well as general conduct on and off the pitch from 20 November 2016 to 2 July 2017.

So I'd say voting started in July.

Iang87

Neymar

Yep that makes sense so

bucketybuck

Lionel Messi

The best player in the world quite rightly gets his recognition yet again.

However, the name of that award was chosen by a clown, from a circus.

Sheep breeder

fatbhoy wrote: »

Kevin de Bruyne

Think he is a super player all over the pitch in a middling team and is getting better and I am not a city fan,
As for the messi and Ronaldo as best player who would be the best in a poor team say in the premiership week in week out and who would score the goals the most. they are both playing in two super teams every week against poor opposition nearly every week and both teams having possibly the biggest share of the top 20 players in the world at present.

Iang87

Iang87 wrote: »

It is a nonsense argument. If you think of it in terms of Higuain missing a sitter in a World Cup Final has a bearing on Messi's greatness

We'll just have to agree to disagree that leading an average team to 2 World Cup finals, winning one, should be a very significant factor in deciding all time greatness.

I agree Messi is great. But there is a reason Maradona is far ahead when it comes to respect in his own native land.

And Maradona also did it at club level. From getting a standing ovation at the Bernabeu to dragging a club from nowhere to dominating Italian football.

SM01

Neymar

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree Messi is great. But there is a reason Maradona is far ahead when it comes to respect in his own native land.

Is this not because of the notional perception in Argentina that Messi is very fond of Catalan life and culture as he's been around Barcelona for much of his life, and has 'forgotten his roots'?

NoviGlitzko

Other (please state)

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Think he is a super player all over the pitch in a middling team and is getting better and I am not a city fan,
As for the messi and Ronaldo as best player who would be the best in a poor team say in the premiership week in week out and who would score the goals the most. they are both playing in two super teams every week against poor opposition nearly every week and both teams having possibly the biggest share of the top 20 players in the world at present.

If I had first pick over KDB or Ronaldo regardless of position or age for a team I'd go with KDB.

Rayne Wooney

Lionel Messi

You have to laugh at some of the drivel that follows Ronaldo around

KDB, Jesus wept

I’d imagine the main argument for Messi not being clearly better is the small issue that for 5 of the last 10 years, half of the decade, he hasn’t been better.

Iang87

Neymar

Deleted User wrote: »

We'll just have to agree to disagree that leading an average team to 2 World Cup finals, winning one, should be a very significant factor in deciding all time greatness.

I agree Messi is great. But there is a reason Maradona is far ahead when it comes to respect in his own native land.

And Maradona also did it at club level. From getting a standing ovation at the Bernabeu to dragging a club from nowhere to dominating Italian football.

I'll never buy the world cup has a factor becuase it means only a certain few players can ever be viewed as truly great.

I think the reason Maradona is more adored than Messi in his homeland has more to do with Messi leaving as a kid whereas Maradona played there for a few years early on and late on in his career.

As for the Maradona at club level point. I genuinely hope you're joking with that one. Messi has over 500 goals at club level along with 4 champions leagues and whatever other accolades he has. He's also gotten the much sought after standing ovation at the Bernabeu.

As for taking a club from nowhere to dominating Italian Football. They won 2 leagues and a cup in Maradonas time there. I'm aware they're the only 2 leagues that Napoli won in their history but hardly dominating Italian Football.

I'm not downplaying Maradona in the slightest and thats not my intention if its what happened but to me Messi is the greatest there's ever been but I think this has to do with generations crossing too. I only saw highlights of Maradona whereas my da watched him and says Messi is great but he's no Maradona.

The Golden Miller

Neymar

Iang87 wrote: »

I'll never buy the world cup has a factor becuase it means only a certain few players can ever be viewed as truly great.

I think the reason Maradona is more adored than Messi in his homeland has more to do with Messi leaving as a kid whereas Maradona played there for a few years early on and late on in his career.

As for the Maradona at club level point. I genuinely hope you're joking with that one. Messi has over 500 goals at club level along with 4 champions leagues and whatever other accolades he has. He's also gotten the much sought after standing ovation at the Bernabeu.

As for taking a club from nowhere to dominating Italian Football. They won 2 leagues and a cup in Maradonas time there. I'm aware they're the only 2 leagues that Napoli won in their history but hardly dominating Italian Football.

I'm not downplaying Maradona in the slightest and thats not my intention if its what happened but to me Messi is the greatest there's ever been but I think this has to do with generations crossing too. I only saw highlights of Maradona whereas my da watched him and says Messi is great but he's no Maradona.

Maradona's goal return is remarkable for the position, teams, leagues and era he played in.

Messi has often produced on the biggest stages of all, but there has also been many times the head dropped and he went very quite. Still gets on the ball but tends to continually do mazy runs into about 5 defenders without looking up, and repeats. Maradona was alot more combative in these situations and tended to force the game onto the opposition, and more often than not found a way when needed. Two of the best ever but I think Maradona was that bit more special

Iang87

Neymar

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You have to laugh at some of the drivel that follows Ronaldo around

KDB, Jesus wept

I’d imagine the main argument for Messi not being clearly better is the small issue that for 5 of the last 10 years, half of the decade, he hasn’t been better.

I've often wondered would the argument be as divisive had ronaldo never played for united. If it was straight Real his whole career versus messi would it change.

I genuinely do think it would be different.

Not an attack on United but he was so adored there and their fan base so big that it must have a bearing.

If you look at goalscoring stats Messi is the better goalscorer in terms of goals per game if im not mistaken and I think its just a given that Messi is a better all round footballer.

Ronaldo is a freak in terms of scoring aswell, not to down play it. I dont think we'll ever see the like of the 2 of them again but for me its no question that its Messi

Lyle Lanley

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We'll just have to agree to disagree that leading an average team to 2 World Cup finals, winning one, should be a very significant factor in deciding all time greatness.

I agree Messi is great. But there is a reason Maradona is far ahead when it comes to respect in his own native land.

And Maradona also did it at club level. From getting a standing ovation at the Bernabeu to dragging a club from nowhere to dominating Italian football.

Maradona Is seen as a knacker who happened to be good at football. Most Argentinians I know are still undecided on whether his footballing achievements are enough to balance out the fact he embarrassed the whole country for years by being a high profile coke head scumbag. (Roughly translated)

Messi, while everyone can agree is better for Barcelona, is certainly respected.

Most (that I know at least) also wouldn't buy into the idea that Maradona played in a poor team or won the world cup alone.

Source: Marrying an Argentine, spend a lot of time with Argentinian people!

sReq | uTeK

Lionel Messi

Iang87 wrote: »

I've often wondered would the argument be as divisive had ronaldo never played for united. If it was straight Real his whole career versus messi would it change.

I genuinely do think it would be different.

Not an attack on United but he was so adored there and their fan base so big that it must have a bearing.

If you look at goalscoring stats Messi is the better goalscorer in terms of goals per game if im not mistaken and I think its just a given that Messi is a better all round footballer.

Ronaldo is a freak in terms of scoring aswell, not to down play it. I dont think we'll ever see the like of the 2 of them again but for me its no question that its Messi

Yea all those people voting are united fans too, probably ex players.

Bridge93

Higuain doesn't miss sitter - Messi potentially wins World Cup and apparently this makes him a better player

Maradona doesn't cheat and he potentially doesn't win World Cup - makes him a lesser player

Right

Iang87

Neymar

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Yea all those people voting are united fans too, probably ex players.

Thats not what I said. I'm talking about the general overall argument people have.

You'll see earlier in the thread I asked when was the vote for and there is no denying in the period ronaldo scored more and more important goals than Messi did making him fully deserving of the award

bucketybuck

Lionel Messi

Iang87 wrote: »

Ronaldo is a freak in terms of scoring aswell, not to down play it. I dont think we'll ever see the like of the 2 of them again but for me its no question that its Messi

Apparently its De Bruyne now.

Iang87

Neymar

bucketybuck wrote: »

Apparently its De Bruyne now.

Was that poster not answering the thread title directly. Right now de Bruyne is playing better stuff than Ronaldo and has this season but still he doesnt come into the overall discussion

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

From what I see online( On Spanish language articles, blogs, etc), many Argentines treat Maradona as a bit of a joke these days. I don't know how much that reflects general opinion, younger people who weren't around for his glory days might be the ones who don't hold him in high regard.

NoviGlitzko

Other (please state)

Iang87 wrote: »

Was that poster not answering the thread title directly. Right now de Bruyne is playing better stuff than Ronaldo and has this season but still he doesnt come into the overall discussion

The question is who the best player is in the world at the moment.

Overall Ronaldo for sure but yeah I'd take De Bruyne before Ronaldo as first pick to build a team for now as he'd be more influential IMO.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

Higuain doesn't miss sitter - Messi potentially wins World Cup and apparently this makes him a better player

Maradona doesn't cheat and he potentially doesn't win World Cup - makes him a lesser player

Right

Chance can change everything alright.

Messi doesn't get put on some dodgy drugs programme in Barcelona, doesn't have his body transformed, remains some undersized kid who never made it.

Maradona doesn't get attracted to recreational drugs in Napoli, stays at the top for longer etc. etc.

There are a few who think I prefer Maradona solely on the basis of a World Cup win. And leading one's country to 2 World Cup final winning one is...attractive. He was also stronger than Messi, faced more robust tackling, was more influential in terms of dragging weak teams to the top, did it with teams where he wasn't surrounded by superstars, did it in different countries and continents etc. etc.

Bridge93

Deleted User wrote: »

Chance can change everything alright.

Messi doesn't get put on some dodgy drugs programme in Barcelona, doesn't have his body transformed, remains some undersized kid who never made it.

Maradona doesn't get attracted to recreational drugs in Napoli, stays at the top for longer etc. etc.

There are a few who think I prefer Maradona solely on the basis of a World Cup win. And leading one's country to 2 World Cup final winning one is...attractive. He was also stronger than Messi, faced more robust tackling, was more influential in terms of dragging weak teams to the top, did it with teams where he wasn't surrounded by superstars, did it in different countries and continents etc. etc.

Yeah fair each to their own I suppose, never going to have one man everyone unifies behind. I'm too young to see maradona at his pomp, just the tail end and the 94 WC weight loss drug scandal. Generally been resigned to clips of his peak so that'll cloud my judgement when compared to those I've seen their whole career

Dick phelan

Neymar

Messi the best right now and the best there's ever been, the idea he has to win a world cup to be the greatest is crazy, the man has single handily taken Argentina to Russia and got to a world cup final loosing out in ET to a much better German side winning player of the tournament in the process. I don't think Ronaldo comes close tbh, the greatest goalscorer i'v ever seen but Messi all round is far superior imo.

Of the players i'v seen my top 3 are Messi, Zidane and Cristiano Ronaldo in that order. Maradonna can't compare with Messi given his known drug cheating and frankly the idea he won the world cup by himself is a myth if Messi had won the world cup in 2014 with that squad it would be a greater achievement then Maradonna in fact i'd argue Ronaldo is better then Maradonna ever was.

The Talking Bread

I don't get this whole "Messi doesn't need a world cup to prove he is the greatest" point people make as if it is a regular POV that he needs to win a WC held by soccer fans.

I rarely ever see people making this point about Messi. Because it is a silly point.

In fact I would be surprised if anyone on this forum has made this point.

The Talking Bread

Actually, reading some comments back, some posters do hold this opinion! It's a silly argument!

The Talking Bread

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've no doubt Jose got a few 1st round picks but its more the fact that Castles is basically a Jose fanboy and wherever he goes, Castles will report favourably on that club, or should I say, anything Jose does.

Journos are closer to some managers than others but Castles has head so far in Joses rear end its embarassing, his Twitter feed is usually a good source of entertainment though for irony.

This satirical piece sums up their relationship...........

"Duncan Castles summoned to explain behaviour by furious Jose Mourinho
castles-summoned-mourinho

A terrified Duncan Castles sits while being lambasted by Jose Mourinho.
Angrily pounding on his desk at the temerity of his underling to question his authority in such a brazen manner, Jose Mourinho today summoned Duncan Castles to explain his recent behaviour.



Sitting in his office at Manchester United’s training ground, Mourinho warned the Scottish journalist to behave appropriately in future or suffer dire consequences, after a series of high-profile Twitter posts reportedly publicised without the Portuguese coach’s consent.

“Hello Duncan, please come sit down. Now, do you know why I have asked you here, boy? Perhaps first I should ask you why you think you can make me look like a fool? That would be something interesting to talk about, wouldn’t it?” said Mourinho as the visibly shaking and stuttering writer attempted in vain to defend himself.

“Do you care to explain why you have acted the way you have? Actually, don’t waste your breath. Surely you’re aware that I only allowed you into my circle because I trusted you to do my bidding whenever I told you to. You’re making me look like a fool. You’ll be back writing on Sulia for pennies if you don’t know what’s good for you. So, for your sake, I’d advise you stick to our agreement if you want to keep pretending you’re a journalist. Do we have an understanding?”

After a further 45 minutes of verbal abuse, a now weeping Castles was reportedly being consoled by Mourinho, after promising to be a “good boy” in future."

The Talking Bread

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Actually, reading some comments back, some posters do hold this opinion! It's a silly argument!

It's not silly at all to point to the World Cup as a very significant factor in defining greatness.

It's the main reason Pele is spoken of as the greatest ever. Because of what he did at the World Cup.

It's the main reason Brazil 1970 is considered the finest team ever. Again, because of what they did at the World Cup.

Obviously a player can be great without winning a World Cup, Messi being an obvious example.

But he's no Maradona...

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Some great players will never even get to play at a World Cup, through no fault of their own.

Pele has said that Messi needs to win three World Cups to be the greatest, ignoring the fact he barely played in 1962.

Iused2likebusts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not silly at all to point to the World Cup as a very significant factor in defining greatness.

It's the main reason Pele is spoken of as the greatest ever. Because of what he did at the World Cup.

It's the main reason Brazil 1970 is considered the finest team ever. Again, because of what they did at the World Cup.

Obviously a player can be great without winning a World Cup, Messi being an obvious example.

But he's no Maradona...

Back in the day a huge chunk of the football people saw on the TV was the world cup. For this reason people would base their greatest teams ever and greatest player ever on the world cup as it was the majority of football they saw.Nowadays we see a lot more football and the standard in the knockout rounds of the CL is much better than what you see in the WC. Its a nonsense argument that messi has to win a world cup to be considered the greatest ever.

mdwexford

Neymar is so overrated.

He'd be doing well to make a top 20.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

Maradona Is seen as a knacker who happened to be good at football. Most Argentinians I know are still undecided on whether his footballing achievements are enough to balance out the fact he embarrassed the whole country for years by being a high profile coke head scumbag. (Roughly translated)

Messi, while everyone can agree is better for Barcelona, is certainly respected.

Most (that I know at least) also wouldn't buy into the idea that Maradona played in a poor team or won the world cup alone.

Source: Marrying an Argentine, spend a lot of time with Argentinian people!

Thats funny because most Argentines couldnt give a **** about the cocaine incident
The devide is in age the younger generation view Messi as the best
the older view Maradonna
Nobody thinks he won the world cup by himself

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Bridge93 wrote: »

Higuain doesn't miss sitter - Messi potentially wins World Cup and apparently this makes him a better player

Maradona doesn't cheat and he potentially doesn't win World Cup - makes him a lesser player

Right

Whats funny about the Higuain argument is Messi missed a easier chance but its ignored as does Palacio :rolleyes:

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Dick phelan wrote: »

Messi the best right now and the best there's ever been, the idea he has to win a world cup to be the greatest is crazy, the man has single handily taken Argentina to Russia and got to a world cup final loosing out in ET to a much better German side winning player of the tournament in the process. I don't think Ronaldo comes close tbh, the greatest goalscorer i'v ever seen but Messi all round is far superior imo.

Of the players i'v seen my top 3 are Messi, Zidane and Cristiano Ronaldo in that order. Maradonna can't compare with Messi given his known drug cheating and frankly the idea he won the world cup by himself is a myth if Messi had won the world cup in 2014 with that squad it would be a greater achievement then Maradonna in fact i'd argue Ronaldo is better then Maradonna ever was.

Maybe if he had scored in the first 10 games they wouldnt have had to do it on last night
Or even against Peru three days before

Iang87

Neymar

irishman86 wrote: »

Maybe if he had scored in the first 10 games they wouldnt have had to do it on last night
Or even against Peru three days before

I may stand corrected on this but I think aside from an OG Messi is the only player to score for Argentina in 11 months.

From 15/11/16 - now

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Iang87 wrote: »

I may stand corrected on this but I think aside from an OG Messi is the only player to score for Argentina in 11 months.

From 15/11/16 - now

You ignore my point about how he didnt score at the start
A big part of the reason they were in this mess
As for being the only player to score thats incorrect Mercado against Brazil in the summer for example
Before the last fixtures four games i think he had only scored against Uruguay
Now dont get me wrong i'm not blaming anything on Messi, but to say he dragged Argentina anywhere is ignoring where it was with him in the team, now if he had only played those last four games, the point would be valid but not when he played all the other games besides the ones who got banned for
He scored in 2 out of 5 games one of those a penalty, so pretty much a hattrick against Ecuador is the only game that stands out
But against Uruguay he didnt score, but ill cut him slack as it was away
But Peru and Venezuela were at home and Messi didnt do anything at all, he was very poor, have a google and see what was said about him at home.
So for me he didnt drag Argentina to the world cup

This is off course no way relevant to him as a player just to that one point
I wouldnt rate him the best myself nor would it be Ronaldo, Ronaldinho/Brazilian Ronaldo/Zidane are the players i feel were the best. But it always going to be massive bias on how you view the game. I hate goals scored being used as the best player as theres already a reward for that

Bridge93

irishman86 wrote: »

Whats funny about the Higuain argument is Messi missed a easier chance but its ignored as does Palacio :rolleyes:

Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is how actions of others that Messi or whoever can't control can't be used as a means of measuring the greatness of a player.

Bridge93

irishman86 wrote: »

Maybe if he had scored in the first 10 games they wouldnt have had to do it on last night
Or even against Peru three days before

He scored 7 goals in 10 games. He didn't play 8 of the qualifiers. 3 of argentinas wins came in games where Messi scored the only goal or was the only scorer.

Iang87

Neymar

irishman86 wrote: »

You ignore my point about how he didnt score at the start
A big part of the reason they were in this mess
As for being the only player to score thats incorrect Mercado against Brazil in the summer for example
Before the last fixtures four games i think he had only scored against Uruguay
Now dont get me wrong i'm not blaming anything on Messi, but to say he dragged Argentina anywhere is ignoring where it was with him in the team, now if he had only played those last four games, the point would be valid but not when he played all the other games besides the ones who got banned for
He scored in 2 out of 5 games one of those a penalty, so pretty much a hattrick against Ecuador is the only game that stands out
But against Uruguay he didnt score, but ill cut him slack as it was away
But Peru and Venezuela were at home and Messi didnt do anything at all, he was very poor, have a google and see what was said about him at home.
So for me he didnt drag Argentina to the world cup

This is off course no way relevant to him as a player just to that one point
I wouldnt rate him the best myself nor would it be Ronaldo, Ronaldinho/Brazilian Ronaldo/Zidane are the players i feel were the best. But it always going to be massive bias on how you view the game. I hate goals scored being used as the best player as theres already a reward for that

Ya the one game you mention was a friendly. I meant competitive,

You genuinely need to watch the highlights of Peru and Venezuela games. To call him poor in those games proves you didn't see them. If he didn't drag them to the world cup and they fell over the line then ask why they fell over the line.

Goals scored arent what messi being the best is based off of. In the final third of the field he could score from 25 yards, he can thread a ball through 2 or 3 with perfect weight or he could dribble by 3 or 4 and lift it over the keeper. You mention a massive bias on how you view the game. Who watches football and doesnt wow at those 3 options

Lyle Lanley

irishman86 wrote: »

Thats funny because most Argentines couldnt give a **** about the cocaine incident
The devide is in age the younger generation view Messi as the best
the older view Maradonna
Nobody thinks he won the world cup by himself

I'll be down there in a couple of weeks, I'll run a poll..

In my experience public opinion of Maradona Is not great, young or old. The people like Messi, even though he's from Rosario.

The Golden Miller

Neymar

I just don't see under which attributes Messi actually exceeds Maradona, bar dribbling....just

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Bridge93 wrote: »

Whether he did or didn't isn't the point. The point is how actions of others that Messi or whoever can't control can't be used as a means of measuring the greatness of a player.

I agree, but its hardly Higuains fault they didnt win a point thats regularly ignored

Bridge93

irishman86 wrote: »

I agree, but its hardly Higuains fault they didnt win a point thats regularly ignored

Oh absolutely not, the idea of blaming one man is nonsensical. It's the argument some have that one game which can be decided by so many uncontrollable factors defines where somebody sits in a pecking order. What does not appearing at a World Cup mean for George best if this is the case?

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Bridge93 wrote: »

He scored 7 goals in 10 games. He didn't play 8 of the qualifiers. 3 of argentinas wins came in games where Messi scored the only goal or was the only scorer.

Or 4 goals in 9 taking away the hattrick, look at all the three games mentioned where og was the only one on the score sheet

Iang87 wrote: »

Ya the one game you mention was a friendly. I meant competitive,

You genuinely need to watch the highlights of Peru and Venezuela games. To call him poor in those games proves you didn't see them. If he didn't drag them to the world cup and they fell over the line then ask why they fell over the line.

Goals scored arent what messi being the best is based off of. In the final third of the field he could score from 25 yards, he can thread a ball through 2 or 3 with perfect weight or he could dribble by 3 or 4 and lift it over the keeper. You mention a massive bias on how you view the game. Who watches football and doesnt wow at those 3 options

Why would i watch highlights of a game i watched live, they fell over the line because Messi had a poor qualifers in general covered up by the last game.
I was using the scored goals as thats what was put to me, i rate Messi high where did i say i didnt. All three of the players i mentioned can do all you say Messi does its not bias on how i view the game, everyone has bias. People from the eighties prefer Maradonna seventies Pele etc etc

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

I'll be down there in a couple of weeks, I'll run a poll..

In my experience public opinion of Maradona Is not great, young or old. The people like Messi, even though he's from Rosario.

Ill do one at Christmas then :pac: i winter there/Brazil
I dont disagree on public opinion besides well from the ghettos, Maradonna is a scumbag no arguments but he is separated in football and his personal life when they talk about him
I disagree everyone likes Messi, his Spanish connection gets used against him everytime something goes wrong
Everyone likes Palermo for example or Mascherano who the fans still see as the captain