Who is the best player in the world at the moment?

Liam O

GavRedKing wrote: »

City are the best English sides but I cant see an English side winning it, any of them would need a big lot of luck to get through the competition, same can be said for any team I suppose but I'd be putting Barca as firm favourites for the CL anyway.

Any of Bayern, Barca, Real and PSG could go on a big run provided they have all their big players available. I wouldn't rule out the English teams with the likes of Pep, Jose, Klopp and Conte having gone far in the competition before, many times with inferior teams to what they now have and capable of coming up with something to beat anyone.

I've had a feeling about Chelsea for a while. Morata is proven in Europe even if it's not happening for him at the moment and Hazard is capable of beating teams almost alone. Add that to a player like Kante and they could cause Barca a lot of problems in midfield.

GavRedKing

Neymar

Liam O wrote: »

Any of Bayern, Barca, Real and PSG could go on a big run provided they have all their big players available. I wouldn't rule out the English teams with the likes of Pep, Jose, Klopp and Conte having gone far in the competition before, many times with inferior teams to what they now have and capable of coming up with something to beat anyone.

I've had a feeling about Chelsea for a while. Morata is proven in Europe even if it's not happening for him at the moment and Hazard is capable of beating teams almost alone. Add that to a player like Kante and they could cause Barca a lot of problems in midfield.

I dont think we'll roll over for Barca but I'm not optimistic about that at all, same could have been said about 2012 though.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've watched probably a good 75% of the La Liga games, theyre nowhere near the force the were last year, which is stating the obvious, I know.

Ronaldo is in a steady decline and Benzema hasnt been great for 2 years.

I think PSG will do a serious number on them too and it might even be the end of Zidane when they get knocked out, if theyre humiliated by PSG because the league is looking well beyond them too at this stage.

I dont agree Ronaldo is in a steady decline, he was brilliant last season and is the leading scorer with 9 three ahead of second place
He also missed five games at the start of the season for being a chico malo
Messi has been helped with the fact that even when hes been bad Suarez has never been Benzema this season bad
Madrid need to spend money in January, i think every man and his dog saw this in the summer when they lost James, Pepe and Morata

Billy86

Lionel Messi

GavRedKing wrote: »

I've watched probably a good 75% of the La Liga games, theyre nowhere near the force the were last year, which is stating the obvious, I know.

Ronaldo is in a steady decline and Benzema hasnt been great for 2 years.

I think PSG will do a serious number on them too and it might even be the end of Zidane when they get knocked out, if theyre humiliated by PSG because the league is looking well beyond them too at this stage.

OH yeah like I said they've been poor domestically - they're only on pace for about 70 points to last season's 93. Ronaldo has been struggling too but we heard the same here last year after their (on this forum were also some frankly now-unintentionally-legendary posts about him not getting it done in the CL knockouts). I would actually fancy PSG as the favourites to win, but they've got a bit of a mental block to get over, I'd imagine last season's epic collapse against Barcelona is still heavy in a lot of their minds. Still I definitely would not bet against Madrid's ability to turn it on for a handful of huge games.

The Floyd p

Neymar

irishman86 wrote: »

Will you be back with a pointless comment when Ronaldo scored 20 goals between now and the end of the season and wins the CL again
What a stupid post

I will be, another L today and another 11+ shots in the kitty. I'll be back in May to remind you that's 2 leagues in 9 years as well.

bucketybuck

Lionel Messi

Its kind of sad the amount of people desperately wanting Ronaldo and Messi to start their declines so that they can start criticising them.

Ronaldo is winning Ballon d'ors and CL's at an age when the likes of Rooney was getting shipped out for years of poor performance, but none of that matters if in his thirties he finally stops scoring 50 goals a season.

Messi is younger but it will be the same with him, when he gets to 32/33 there will be some moron trying to claim he wasn't that good anyway.

Its just sad really. Cantona had the right idea.

One_Of_Shanks

Still Messi for me.

j8wk2feszrnpao

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Still Messi for me.

Agreed. Messi is the most consistently brilliant player over a sustained period that I've been able to watch (watching football since early 80's).

It's not just his goal scoring or assists (where he matches/surpasses any of his peers); it's his ability to drop deep into midfield, pickup the ball and initiate the attack.

Zidane was the best player I had seen. When I see people put together World 11's from the last 20-25yrs, Zidane has to be in everyone of them. But the goals, the assist, the dribbling, the high skill level, the age he started at and continues to play to such a standard....... it's kinda been ridiculous.

His lack of silverware internationally is often used against him, but a WC final (that he dragged them to) and 3 Copa Finals suggests otherwise for me (esp considering some of the really bad managers and defenses they've had in that time).

C Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer and has been second to Messi in their career timeline. He's no Messi, but gets way too much stick; he might be self centered, but mainly it's benefited his teams that he's a ridiculous trainer and professional. He's one of the greats, but Messi is the greatest for me.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

The Floyd p wrote: »

I will be, another L today and another 11+ shots in the kitty. I'll be back in May to remind you that's 2 leagues in 9 years as well.

Cool story bro, off course you ignore leagues are won by teams not players but carry on

irishman86

Lionel Messi

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Agreed. Messi is the most consistently brilliant player over a sustained period that I've been able to watch (watching football since early 80's).

It's not just his goal scoring or assists (where he matches/surpasses any of his peers); it's his ability to drop deep into midfield, pickup the ball and initiate the attack.

Zidane was the best player I had seen. When I see people put together World 11's from the last 20-25yrs, Zidane has to be in everyone of them. But the goals, the assist, the dribbling, the high skill level, the age he started at and continues to play to such a standard....... it's kinda been ridiculous.

His lack of silverware internationally is often used against him, but a WC final (that he dragged them to) and 3 Copa Finals suggests otherwise for me (esp considering some of the really bad managers and defenses they've had in that time).

C Ronaldo is a phenomenal goal scorer and has been second to Messi in their career timeline. He's no Messi, but gets way too much stick; he might be self centered, but mainly it's benefited his teams that he's a ridiculous trainer and professional. He's one of the greats, but Messi is the greatest for me.

Thats just incorrect, Di Maria was the best player for Argentina in that tournament
Not that i disagree with your point just that part, ive heard it said its factually incorrect as you could see in the final how much they missed him
I feel his three copa finals and three losses should be held against him in a way, they have the strongest squad in South America and as captain he has never been able to force them over the line
For me i wouldnt have him as the best, Ronaldinho & Zidane would be the best ive watched.
Im guessing neither of us watched Maradonna/Pele so i cant say anything regarding them tbh

j8wk2feszrnpao

irishman86 wrote: »

Thats just incorrect, Di Maria was the best player for Argentina in that tournament
Not that i disagree with your point just that part, ive heard it said its factually incorrect as you could see in the final how much they missed him
I feel his three copa finals and three losses should be held against him in a way, they have the strongest squad in South America and as captain he has never been able to force them over the line
For me i wouldnt have him as the best, Ronaldinho & Zidane would be the best ive watched.
Im guessing neither of us watched Maradonna/Pele so i cant say anything regarding them tbh

It's not incorrect. You might have a different option, that's all (noting factual about it). Di Maria was a loss for the final, but the team itself looked out on it's legs when that game came around.

I don't think those loses should be held against him, you know, it's about the 'team' as you put it in your previous post. And they haven't had the best squads IMO, as I don't think they've had a top keeper for a while, nor a defense. They've had the attacking players, but not a coach to put it together.

I saw a bit of Maradona, in that coverage was not as extensive as it has been over the last 20-25yrs or so years. Obviously he was a WC winner (and runner up), but people seem to think it was just Madonna (they actually had some really good teams). Pele was great, and that's from all accounts of those who watched his career (not that didn't have some outstanding quality around him).

irishman86

Lionel Messi

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's not incorrect. You might have a different option, that's all (noting factual about it). Di Maria was a loss for the final, but the team itself looked out on it's legs when that game came around.

I don't think those loses should be held against him, you know, it's about the 'team' as you put it in your previous post. And they haven't had the best squads IMO, as I don't think they've had a top keeper for a while, nor a defense. They've had the attacking players, but not a coach to put it together.

I saw a bit of Maradona, in that coverage was not as extensive as it has been over the last 20-25yrs or so years. Obviously he was a WC winner (and runner up), but people seem to think it was just Madonna (they actually had some really good teams). Pele was great, and that's from all accounts of those who watched his career (not that didn't have some outstanding quality around him).

Di Maria was the driving force of the team, for me one of the most disgusting awards was Messi winning the best player award. Either way he defo didnt drag them to the final by himself when hes wasn't in everyones view the best player for the team
They easily have the best squad over Messi's time at the top, yes its a team game but three finals where hes playing for the best team he should have won even once, for me a minor flaw but not something i would hold over him in anyway tbh just something i personally feel
There keeper never makes mistakes, hes loved in Argentina and hes possibly the best keeper outside of Chiles
My only view on Maradonna is second hand im early thirties, my father says hes the best he watched and my Argentine friends father idolises him thats about it. Ive no recollections outside of youtube on Pele

bucketybuck

Lionel Messi

irishman86 wrote: »

Di Maria was the driving force of the team, for me one of the most disgusting awards was Messi winning the best player award.

That award was ridiculous, it must have been decided by some Fifa official asking a toddler if he knew the name of any footballers.

j8wk2feszrnpao

irishman86 wrote: »

Di Maria was the driving force of the team, for me one of the most disgusting awards was Messi winning the best player award. Either way he defo didnt drag them to the final by himself when hes wasn't in everyones view the best player for the team
They easily have the best squad over Messi's time at the top, yes its a team game but three finals where hes playing for the best team he should have won even once, for me a minor flaw but not something i would hold over him in anyway tbh just something i personally feel
There keeper never makes mistakes, hes loved in Argentina and hes possibly the best keeper outside of Chiles
My only view on Maradonna is second hand im early thirties, my father says hes the best he watched and my Argentine friends father idolises him thats about it. Ive no recollections outside of youtube on Pele

Disgusted? Arg played 7 matches, Messi was MOTM in 4 of them (Di Maria in none of them), he also was their top scorer and won player of the tournament (not the best in your eyes, but clearly in the eyes of those who qualify to have a vote). Those are the facts.

And I don't think he's had the best squad. Attacking wise; maybe. But not for keeper or defense (and def not the manager, where it's been a total mess). Romero is far from a bad keeper, but never desired by the top clubs (and has remained a sub for Utd after signing on a free); but even with just 4 or 5 appearances for Utd this season, he'll still start for Arg, cause they don't have anyone else.

Uruguay had a fantastic team, as did Chile and Brazil in that time. The Copa doesn't get as much coverage over here, but I've watched it for quite some time (fantastic rivalry).

irishman86

Lionel Messi

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Disgusted? Arg played 7 matches, Messi was MOTM in 4 of them (Di Maria in none of them), he also was their top scorer and won player of the tournament (not the best in your eyes, but clearly in the eyes of those who qualify to have a vote). Those are the facts.

And I don't think he's had the best squad. Attacking wise; maybe. But not for keeper or defense (and def not the manager, where it's been a total mess). Romero is far from a bad keeper, but never desired by the top clubs (and has remained a sub for Utd after signing on a free); but even with just 4 or 5 appearances for Utd this season, he'll still start for Arg, cause they don't have anyone else.

Uruguay had a fantastic team, as did Chile and Brazil in that time. The Copa doesn't get as much coverage over here, but I've watched it for quite some time (fantastic rivalry).

The motm is kinda my point, Messi is always going to get motm whether he deserves it or not. Ask a Argentine they laugh about it all the time, even if he doesnt play he will get motm
He didnt score outside of the group stage from my recollection
Do you honestly think Chile/Uruguay have a better team than Argentina. You keep mentioning Romero but outside of Chile who is better (I would have him currently ahead of Bravo) and Muslera who is a very similar standard to Romero
Look through Argentinas defenders and you will see they mostly play at the top clubs, then look at Chiles/Uruguay
Regarding Brazil it was only when Tite took over did they start playing they have been where Argentina currently are for years
Anyways my point is you say he dragged them to the finals when in reality he had lots of help
Even the world cup since you are using awards included Di Maria and Mascherano for the dream team and on the shortlist for best player (a award i think will only ever go to Ronaldo/Messi if they get to the final at this years tournament)

j8wk2feszrnpao

irishman86 wrote: »

The motm is kinda my point, Messi is always going to get motm whether he deserves it or not.

Not true, he got 4 of 7, so not always.
He was excellent in the group stages, but faded big time in the later stages when I think he in particular (after another long season) looked exhausted. He was part of that Barca team that shutdown/closed-down right from the front in such an aggressive manner, that it's so tough to keep that going.

irishman86 wrote: »

Ask a Argentine they laugh about it all the time

Argentina is where Messi may be appreciated least of all. Tim Vickery has spoken about Messi and the Argentinean feelings towards him. Tevez is still adored in Argentina cause he grew up there, played there and seen as the working class hero. Messi left at such a young age that they never took to him in the same way. Plus, Maradona is still God there, so they hate any comparison.

irishman86 wrote: »

He didnt score outside of the group stage from my recollection

Correct. They scored 2 goals in the last 4 matches, showing they weren't that good a team. They packed the defensive, leaving Messi picking up the ball at midfield most of the time.
Just look at how they did in the qualification for this years WC. Terrible without Messi, and only making it when he did play. They remain hugely reliant on him. They wouldn't have qualified but for Messi; showing they still aren't that talented.

irishman86 wrote: »

Do you honestly think Chile/Uruguay have a better team than Argentina.

Not right now. Both have aging teams, and they don't play with the same intensity they once did. But when they were both in their prime, they were excellent. To add, both were fantastically managed, unlike the chaos in Arg.

irishman86 wrote: »

You keep mentioning Romero but outside of Chile who is better (I would have him currently ahead of Bravo) and Muslera who is a very similar standard to Romero

Right now they (Romero & Bravo) are both backup keepers, so tough to judge either due to lack of playing time. Bravo had a decent run with Barca, so maybe edge to his career. I think Muslera and Alisson (Brazil) are better. Romero is on par with Ospina for me.

irishman86 wrote: »

Look through Argentinas defenders and you will see they mostly play at the top clubs, then look at Chiles/Uruguay

When I look at that Arg team from the WC, which defenders did Arg have at the big clubs? They were still playing a past it Demichelis.

irishman86 wrote: »

Anyways my point is you say he dragged them to the finals when in reality he had lots of help

They all need help, that's why I mentioned Madonna and Pele earlier. But it wasn't a good Arg team, and when Messi wasn't scoring or assisting, they struggled for goals.

Billy86

Lionel Messi

irishman86 wrote: »

Thats just incorrect, Di Maria was the best player for Argentina in that tournament

Nah it was Mascherano. Probably deserved to win player of the tournament if not for the irritating bias to give awards to goalscorers. For all the talk of Messi 'dragging' them there from some quarters, he was quite up and down in that tournament and what really got them to the final was conceding no goals in the round of 16 (and extra time), quarters, semis (and extra time) and indeed the final itself (until the last 7-8 minutes of extra time, if I recall).

Don't get me wrong, Messi is one of the very very best ever players to kick a football, but I thought the Iran game summed up the media fawning quite well - he scored a great winner, but was invisible against a Iran for 91 entire and barely a word was said about it.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Billy86 wrote: »

Nah it was Mascherano. Probably deserved to win player of the tournament if not for the irritating bias to give awards to goalscorers. For all the talk of Messi 'dragging' them there from some quarters, he was quite up and down in that tournament and what really got them to the final was conceding no goals in the round of 16 (and extra time), quarters, semis (and extra time) and indeed the final itself (until the last 7-8 minutes of extra time, if I recall).

Don't get me wrong, Messi is one of the very very best ever players to kick a football, but I thought the Iran game summed up the media fawning quite well - he scored a great winner, but was invisible against a Iran for 91 entire and barely a word was said about it.

I agree with everything you said buddy, the Iran game is the perfect example

Am I wrong in remembering that the MOM awards were voted for by the public that world cup.

irishman86

Lionel Messi

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not true, he got 4 of 7, so not always.
He was excellent in the group stages, but faded big time in the later stages when I think he in particular (after another long season) looked exhausted. He was part of that Barca team that shutdown/closed-down right from the front in such an aggressive manner, that it's so tough to keep that going.


Argentina is where Messi may be appreciated least of all. Tim Vickery has spoken about Messi and the Argentinean feelings towards him. Tevez is still adored in Argentina cause he grew up there, played there and seen as the working class hero. Messi left at such a young age that they never took to him in the same way. Plus, Maradona is still God there, so they hate any comparison.


Correct. They scored 2 goals in the last 4 matches, showing they weren't that good a team. They packed the defensive, leaving Messi picking up the ball at midfield most of the time.
Just look at how they did in the qualification for this years WC. Terrible without Messi, and only making it when he did play. They remain hugely reliant on him. They wouldn't have qualified but for Messi; showing they still aren't that talented.


Not right now. Both have aging teams, and they don't play with the same intensity they once did. But when they were both in their prime, they were excellent. To add, both were fantastically managed, unlike the chaos in Arg.


Right now they (Romero & Bravo) are both backup keepers, so tough to judge either due to lack of playing time. Bravo had a decent run with Barca, so maybe edge to his career. I think Muslera and Alisson (Brazil) are better. Romero is on par with Ospina for me.

When I look at that Arg team from the WC, which defenders did Arg have at the big clubs? They were still playing a past it Demichelis.

They all need help, that's why I mentioned Madonna and Pele earlier. But it wasn't a good Arg team, and when Messi wasn't scoring or assisting, they struggled for goals.

He wasnt excellent buddy, he was brilliant in spells look at the Iran game where he was invisible then scored a goal then motm
Hes like McClean for us for different reasons but both usually get motm rightfully or wrongly
But once he got out of the group stages against stronger opposition he was invisible for most of the games
He doesnt apply the press at Barca, watch any game he loiters on the right wing till he gets the ball thats why Suarez is his perfect partner. I think thats a excuse rather than a reason. Then even excited the CL earlier than usual
They were terrible in qualifying even with Messi buddy just a few days before his brilliant game he was invisible in a 0-0 draw
If you think Argentina have a had a weaker squad in recent times to Chile & Uruguay i respectfully disagree with you, for me its not even close
Better management i will agree with although Argentina now have Chiles manager but they are still tripe
Allison who you say is better was last season a back up to Juventus/Ex Arsenal back up. Hes not a great keeper
Citys keeper is the best Latin keeper now but this isnt relevant to past Copa failures, i dont include the wc because he lost one world cup against a better team
Defenders available to Argentina at the wc
Rojo, Demi, Garay and peak Zabeleta with peak Mascherano to say thats a weak defence well is laughable they conceded four goals. Two against Nigeria and only once in knockouts. It wasnt Messi saving them in defence
It was a very good team in the wc, people seem to want to say it was weaker for some reason that baffles me

IncognitoMan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Am I wrong in remembering that the MOM awards were voted for by the public that world cup.

Was the Euros wasn't it? Was great for man of the match bets I remember. You could take a fair guess at the most popular players and you'd be in with a decent shout. I remember Payet getting a few early on and winning a couple of 8/1 - 6/1 bets.

IncognitoMan

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Was the Euros wasn't it? Was great for man of the match bets I remember. You could take a fair guess at the most popular players and you'd be in with a decent shout. I remember Payet getting a few early on and winning a couple of 8/1 - 6/1 bets.

O **** maybe that was it I remember the same checking out who had the most twitter followers o what a time to be alive

irishman86

Lionel Messi

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Was the Euros wasn't it? Was great for man of the match bets I remember. You could take a fair guess at the most popular players and you'd be in with a decent shout. I remember Payet getting a few early on and winning a couple of 8/1 - 6/1 bets.

Thats hilarious :pac::pac:

j8wk2feszrnpao

irishman86 wrote: »

He wasnt excellent

He was, it's why he got player of the tournament.

irishman86 wrote: »

He doesnt apply the press at Barca

Not any longer, or at least not as he used to. But he did, he led the line and set the example. He doesn't have the legs he once did, and Barca don't employ it as they once did (same for Iniesta). Weak argument trying to use that against him now after all the chasing he did for a decade.

irishman86 wrote: »

They were terrible in qualifying even with Messi

They got 75% of their points with Messi. And if you are saying that they were terrible, then stop the argument that they have a fantastic squad. You are contradicting yourself. This top team you are describing wouldn't have made it to the WC without him.

irishman86 wrote: »

Allison who you say is better was last season a back up to Juventus/Ex Arsenal back up. Hes not a great keeper

I didn't say he was great, just better.

irishman86 wrote: »

Rojo, Demi, Garay and peak Zabeleta with peak Mascherano to say thats a weak defence well is laughable they conceded four goals. Two against Nigeria and only once in knockouts. It wasnt Messi saving them in defence
It was a very good team in the wc, people seem to want to say it was weaker for some reason that baffles me

They were poor, but they packed their defense, and had Messi playing ridiculously deep cause they had no pace in defense (so couldn't play a high line). Their game against the Dutch in the semi was terrible cause both teams were so negative (but it got them to the WC final, and could have won it).

Anyway buddy, I'm done on this. Messi, greatest of his generation.

Shanotheslayer

Neymar

Messi just scored an absolutely worldie free kick against Real S. One of the best I've seen.

Could this be the first year ever that the Messi/Ronaldo duo will be broken for Ballon D'or?

If Madrid fail to win anything, the league looks wrapped up for Barca so could see it being:

Messi
Neymar
Ronaldo

irishman86

Lionel Messi

munstermagic11 wrote: »

He was, it's why he got player of the tournament.


Not any longer, or at least not as he used to. But he did, he led the line and set the example. He doesn't have the legs he once did, and Barca don't employ it as they once did (same for Iniesta). Weak argument trying to use that against him now after all the chasing he did for a decade.


They got 75% of their points with Messi. And if you are saying that they were terrible, then stop the argument that they have a fantastic squad. You are contradicting yourself. This top team you are describing wouldn't have made it to the WC without him.


I didn't say he was great, just better.


They were poor, but they packed their defense, and had Messi playing ridiculously deep cause they had no pace in defense (so couldn't play a high line). Their game against the Dutch in the semi was terrible cause both teams were so negative (but it got them to the WC final, and could have won it).

Anyway buddy, I'm done on this. Messi, greatest of his generation.

Like i said already Messi was the popularity vote
Messi hasnt led the press in donkeys years, its a reason the f9 was implemented
They do have a fantastic squad, they currently are weaker than previous copas and world cups which is what weve been talking about
I disagree about Allison, hes done little to show hes better than Romero
If you think were poor off with you, they werent as ive already pointed out the players they had at the world cup
I never argued about Messi being the best of his generation i personally dont think he is, you do thats just our personal preference

irishman86

Lionel Messi

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Messi just scored an absolutely worldie free kick against Real S. One of the best I've seen.

Could this be the first year ever that the Messi/Ronaldo duo will be broken for Ballon D'or?

If Madrid fail to win anything, the league looks wrapped up for Barca so could see it being:

Messi
Neymar
Ronaldo

Neymar has to win something outside of france for me to get up there
Like Zlatan dominated and never got top three

Mr.Nice Guy

Lionel Messi

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Messi just scored an absolutely worldie free kick against Real S. One of the best I've seen.

Could this be the first year ever that the Messi/Ronaldo duo will be broken for Ballon D'or?

If Madrid fail to win anything, the league looks wrapped up for Barca so could see it being:

Messi
Neymar
Ronaldo

I think the World Cup can be very influential this year. If Neymar leads Brazil to glory then I think he has a good chance. Alternatively, a PSG Champions League win could see him finish top. Needs to be something historic like that.

IncognitoMan

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think the World Cup can be very influential this year. If Neymar leads Brazil to glory then I think he has a good chance. Alternatively, a PSG Champions League win could see him finish top. Needs to be something historic like that.

11 goals and 9 Assists in France this season doesn't scream best player in the world to me to be honest. It's not bad but it's not best player in the world good.

6 goals and 3 assists in the champions league isn't bad at this stage though.

World cup and Champions league winners will play a big part alright.