Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

devnull

Problem is they are changing their leave calendar from a April to March to January to December.

They've pro rata'd the leave based on that and reduced it accordingly but have still let pilots take 4 weeks leave together.

What they should have done is pro ratad the leave down like they have and also pro rata'd the maximum block time down as well.

It's not that they have too many pilots taking leave, just that too many pilots are taking 4 weeks leave at the same time.

L1011

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I am aware of the hours limitation but I always thought that would have been looked after with the rostering schedule throughout the year (5 on 4 off I think for Ryanair) as opposed to a compulsory 4 week block.

It's not a 4 week block.

Ryanair calling it leave has confused the situation hugely. It's flight time restrictions and they were presumably concerned people would try make a safety story out of it if that name was used

It is not a case that a few pilots have to take a month off to reset - it's that nearly everyone is approaching limits and needs to work a lot less to stay under them.

The 4 weeks is roughly when the schedule starts to seriously tail off for winter and they'll need less crew anyway

Masala

So... its the IAA's fault for changing the annual Holiday year!

Spanish Eyes

Are pilots and flight crew paid for holliers/rest time.

jimmycrackcorm

L1011 wrote:

Ryanair calling it leave has confused the situation hugely. It's flight time restrictions and they were presumably concerned people would try make a safety story out of it if that name was used

But any leave that could have been taken in the first quarter of next year has to be taken before the end of this year and they're choosing to limit this effect to the pre winter period.

Nothing has changed about the rolling flight time restrictions.

L1011

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But any leave that could have been taken in the first quarter of next year has to be taken before the end of this year and they're choosing to limit this effect to the pre winter period.

Nothing has changed about the rolling flight time restrictions.

The leave year changing isn't why people are bouncing off flight time limits - and it's something they could have managed ages ago

Johnnio13

think he answered all the questions there well. I am not one of the affected but it appears at least some thought has gone into the cancellation process and I'd say the ops staff were busy as f£$k this weekend trying to risk-assess this whole cock-up.

devnull

List is up:
http://fr-prod-static-pdf.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/flightcancellations.pdf

Shouldn't be too hard hitting, the vast majority of flights are those that are on high frequency routes

Seems to be pretty much only flights out of the large bases.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Hococop

Can't see Amsterdam in the flight out or in so I think I'm ok

Stevek101

Looks like they got a handle on it. With most issues being Fri last week to Sun this week.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Pkiernan

It's a real shame.
My family's holiday doesn't appear to be affected.
I don't choose Ryanair for price. Paying extra for certainty is more important to me.
I can't see why I'd be booking Ryanair again for years now, and I was always a fan of them.

Stevek101

All Irish flights have same day replacement also.

DivingDuck

I'm safe, too.

Thank Christ for that— now I can go to bed to try and get some shut-eye before the outbound leg which I'll be taking in a couple of hours. Might not have reliable internet access while I'm away and probably wouldn't have had time to get it sorted before I left, so this is a huge relief for me!

My sympathies with all who are affected. I hope they can reroute most people without too much delay and distress.

Stevek101

Ryanair site is running slow so incase anyone is looking

http://fr-prod-static-pdf.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/flightcancellations.pdf

The rest of this week Thur - Sun will be uploaded shortly.

devnull

If anything Ryanair's high punctuality is actually partly to blame on this as stupid as that might sound.

Ryanair are probably one of the most pro-active airlines when it comes to sending out standby crews to recover from delays or aircraft issues and bad weather etc, that is why their punctuality was massively higher than Easyjet this summer, Easyjet were letting delays mount up whilst Ryanair sent out standby crews.

The problem with the Ryanair strategy is sooner or later this can catch up with you since it involves using more pilots hours faster to keep the schedule running which means you have less to play with later on even if you end up annoying less customers in the short term.

As odd as it sounds, had Ryanair have been less focused on running flights on time and have subbed in less standby crews they'd have far less problems now than they are having because there would not be so many hours on the clock overall.

It's very much a good thing that Ryanair puts standby crews in to avoid long delays since it's often resulted in them running full schedules of flights when other airlines have massive delays and cancellations due to disruption, however ultimately this has had a negative impact on the business.

I suspect what will result from this will be Ryanair will take a long term view of pilot hours in future, rather than the previous situation where they just focus on not cancelling on delaying flights in the short term, despite the problems that it creates down the line with ever mounting up hours.

Essentially Ryanair were so focused on not cancelling flights and preventing delays at the time they occured, that they put short term customer satisfaction and reliablity before the longer term requirements of the business and what essentially happened is the more they did it, the further along the road the snowball went, gathering more and more snow to the point when they finally encountered it, it was a massive snowman.

jimmycrackcorm

L1011 wrote:

The leave year changing isn't why people are bouncing off flight time limits - and it's something they could have managed ages ago

The leave year change does mean that crew who would have taken it in the new year now have to take it this year. FTLs haven't changed. And yes they could have balanced the leave better for this year earlier.

basill

The core issue is are they ever going to engage with the pilots they "contract", pay them a fair wage and offer decent terms and conditions and plug the exodus to other airlines. Until that is achieved then expect more of the same next summer so long as there is worldwide demand for pilots.

I think the average joe soap would be surprised to know just how much these poor sods have to pay one way or the other.

A Dub in Glasgo

My flight in October is fine

devnull

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The leave year change does mean that crew who would have taken it in the new year now have to take it this year. FTLs haven't changed. And yes they could have balanced the leave better for this year earlier.

It's also the way standby crews are used.

Airline A:
If a crew gets delayed will just get that crew to run late but still operate the same flights they are expected to do so, when they run out of hours every other flight after that is cancelled with the standard hours or perhaps a bit less logged.

Ryanair
If there are known delays they will sub an extra crew in, the problem with this is that you then have two crews who will be working hours rather than one, and the total hours will be much higher than airline A to run the same number of flights.

If you repeat the Ryanair approach on a large scale every time there is an airport closure or an ATC event or a strike at an airport or a diversion, what you are going to end up with is crew who are logging vastly more hours to keep the punctuality rate high and the cancellations down.

What happens is that over time the standby crews log hours that start to eat into the hours that were originally supposed to be planned for actual flying hours and then you have a crewing problem because they don't have enough hours to perform their original rostered flights.

Ryanair kept subbing in standby crews to recover punctuality and prevent cancellations to the point where it essentially ate into the hours that those crews needed to perform their rostered flying hours so they had no choice but to cancel flights.

Jayop

devnull wrote: »

List is up:
http://fr-prod-static-pdf.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/flightcancellations.pdf

Shouldn't be too hard hitting, the vast majority of flights are those that are on high frequency routes

Seems to be pretty much only flights out of the large bases.

Is that a final verified list? I'm going Belfast to Alicante 3rd to 10th October and it's not on that list so I am OK yeah? Today is the last day I can cancel my accommodation so would love to know if I'm in trouble.

A Dub in Glasgo

devnull wrote: »

It's also the way standby crews are used.

Airline A:
If a crew gets delayed will just get that crew to run late but still operate the same flights they are expected to do so, when they run out of hours every other flight after that is cancelled with the standard hours or perhaps a bit less logged.

Ryanair
If there are known delays they will sub an extra crew in, the problem with this is that you then have two crews who will be working hours rather than one, and the total hours will be much higher than airline A to run the same number of flights.

If you repeat the Ryanair approach on a large scale every time there is an airport closure or an ATC event or a strike at an airport or a diversion, what you are going to end up with is crew who are logging vastly more hours to keep the punctuality rate high and the cancellations down.

What happens is that over time the standby crews log hours that start to eat into the hours that were originally supposed to be planned for actual flying hours and then you have a crewing problem because they don't have enough hours to perform their original rostered flights.

Ryanair kept subbing in standby crews to recover punctuality and prevent cancellations to the point where it essentially ate into the hours that those crews needed to perform their rostered flying hours so they had no choice but to cancel flights.

That makes a lot of sense and Ryanair needs more standby crews if they want to continue with the strategy of high punctuality and availibility

toadfly

Im flying 22nd&24th so still waiting. So frustrating as I have car hire and parking booked and paid for.

Bsal

Found this quite funny

The Rape of Lucretia

toadfly wrote: »

Im flying 22nd&24th so still waiting. So frustrating as I have car hire and parking booked and paid for.

Its here for you :

Stevek101 wrote: »

http://fr-prod-static-pdf.s3-website-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/flightcancellations.pdf

SteM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its here for you :

22nd and 24th aren't on that pdf yet.

SteM

toadfly wrote: »

Im flying 22nd&24th so still waiting. So frustrating as I have car hire and parking booked and paid for.

I'm flying 21st and 24th, car hire booked in Stansted. Was told today when I checked that if Ryanair cancel the flight that I would be refunded in full.

DivingDuck

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its here for you :

Info for flights for the rest of the week isn't out yet; that document only starts on the 25th.

Have to say, I did laugh at the "add pilot" joke above. Don't know if I'd be laughing if I were still waiting, though. Very odd and annoying they haven't released flights for the rest of the week— surely those people need the information the most?

The Rape of Lucretia

SteM wrote: »

22nd and 24th aren't on that pdf yet.

Of Sept so. I see. Curious alright.