Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

Stevek101

Apparently some open letter from the staff is doing the rounds. Anyone have any insight?

billy few mates

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Doing what. I read that and there was no counter argument to the 18 hours.

Just a quote about regulations such as the weekly 60 hours rule.

Where's the actual fatigue?

Why does he keep spinning headline grabbing figures like 'eighteen hours a week'...?
The average person wouldn't have a clue about crew duty/rest periods, flight time limitations, rostering, fatigue or the legislation that surrounds them but someone in his position certainly should. If they don't they shouldn't be making it known in public.
This whole debacle is still unfolding, on one hand he's trying to get the support of his pilots to get them through this crisis and on the other hand he must know comments like this are bound to be seen as inflammatory to the very people he needs to get onside?

john boye

billy few mates wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/latest-michael-olearys-18-hour-figure-does-not-seem-to-have-any-basis-in-reality-says-union-806756.html

Why does he keep doing this?

I assume what he's done there is taken pilot's yearly FTLs and divided them by 52? It's misleading of course if so but he knows he won't really be challenged on it so you can't blame him for saying it.

It's one of the things I've always admired about him, he knows how to work the press. As long as he gives him them a funny quote or an eye catching headline he knows they won't analyze his claims. I know it's odd but he reminds me of Jurgen Klopp recently. Klopp knows as long as he gives a couple of funny lines in pressers nobody will step out of line and say "that's hilarious Jurgen but seriously, why are your teams so awful at defending?"

A319er

I think for a certain moment in time MOL was perfect for the FR CEO role, he saved them he grew them and now he should exit as they do need a more how can I put it, maybe a more human approach, I am not deluded the collapse of the share price is down to his arrogant musings that are both unbelievable and well distasteful, shove him off to be in charge of the bankers or civil servsnts, let them work with no permanent t contracts pay for their training etc etc

I am a fan of FR just it's time to move to a new honest and fair airline to customers and staff , and reap dividends !

billy few mates

john boye wrote: »

I assume what he's done there is taken pilot's yearly FTLs and divided them by 52? It's misleading of course if so but he knows he won't really be challenged on it so you can't blame him for saying it.

It's one of the things I've always admired about him, he knows how to work the press. As long as he gives him them a funny quote or an eye catching headline he knows they won't analyze his claims. I know it's odd but he reminds me of Jurgen Klopp recently. Klopp knows as long as he gives a couple of funny lines in pressers nobody will step out of line and say "that's hilarious Jurgen but seriously, why are your teams so awful at defending?"

What would happen if the pilots in Ryanair suddenly got together and decided they were going on a work to rule but going by O'Leary's interpretation of the rules and were only going to work eighteen hours a week max?
By his logic there should be no interruption to the schedule...

devnull

A319er wrote: »

I think for a certain moment in time MOL was perfect for the FR CEO role, he saved them he grew them and now he should exit as they do need a more how can I put it, maybe a more human approach, I am not deluded the collapse of the share price is down to his arrogant musings that are both unbelievable and well distasteful

The shareholders clearly don't agree as 99.3% of them backed him in todays AGM and that is even higher than last years AGM. Lets not let facts get in the way of a good story though.

Really the share price hasn't been hit that much, the lost value might sound like a lot but if you consider how much Ryanair is worth overall it's really not a lot of value that it has lost.

Tenger

devnull wrote: »

....................
Really the share price hasn't been hit that much, the lost value might sound like a lot but if you consider how much Ryanair is worth overall it's really not a lot of value that it has lost.

Share price in reality is a reflection of investor confidence, the real value of th company is the same.

This could in fact be beneficial to the company financially, do they still buy back their own shares?

A319er

Well it's not really all about the share value, it's a people business and
He has lost his people touch. He really made a mess of the customers perception
Of this pilot shortage, he lied to them and under valued them. They were just 2 per cent after all, he would not have made this mistake in the past, his team are not quite as smart as they once were and I still believe he needs a new challenge, yes a quick winter sale will get punters back in board but there are now a new breed of FR doubters and they will think twice before booking FR again

I just feel he has been great , time over substitute him for a fresh pair of legs

devnull

A319er wrote: »

Well it's not really all about the share value, it's a people business and
He has lost his people touch. He really made a mess of the customers perception
Of this pilot shortage, he lied to them and under valued them. They were just 2 per cent after all, he would not have made this mistake in the past, his team are not quite as smart as they once were and I still believe he needs a new challenge, yes a quick winter sale will get punters back in board but there are now a new breed of FR doubters and they will think twice before booking FR again

I just feel he has been great , time over substitute him for a fresh pair of legs

The effect on people in the UK and Ireland really is minimal compared to what happened with British Airways for example in the last few years which got nowhere near the same amount of press coverage or such a poor quality of reporting as this is getting.

Ryanair are cancelling about 12-15 flights a day max that effects the UK and Ireland and the vast majority of them have options on other Ryanair flights that are still running and people are getting advance notices of up to six weeks of this yet you would think that every one of the flights is serving UK&I the way people are going on.

To put it in perspective British Airways were cancelling hundreds of services per day at one point with very little notice and no alternatives being offered because none of their flights were running yet there was nothing like the reaction of this in the press despite the fact it effected British passengers far more.

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

The shareholders clearly don't agree as 99.3% of them backed him in todays AGM and that is even higher than last years AGM. Lets not let facts get in the way of a good story though.

Really the share price hasn't been hit that much, the lost value might sound like a lot but if you consider how much Ryanair is worth overall it's really not a lot of value that it has lost.

Tenger wrote: »

Share price in reality is a reflection of investor confidence, the real value of th company is the same.

This could in fact be beneficial to the company financially, do they still buy back their own shares?

the money of the minority will not be harmed during this process, but the security of many of the staff might be. dont worry about the share price folks, the money is safe. normal service will resume soon, mol's job is just fine, he ll be grand

ED E

IALPA head was on "da wireless" today.

http://pca.st/7nnD

"If not a majority an overwhelming minority of Ryanair pilots work on a precarious contract basis where they put 5-8 into a company as directors which then sub contracts into a UK company which then sub contracts into Ryanair" (Roughly transcribed folks)

Is this true? Quite screwy, basically Deliveroo in the skies.

devnull

From what I have read this afternoon, Ryanair are reported to have started defamation proceedings against the IALPA and have also made complaints and are in the process of considering legal action against a number of media sources, which is hardly surpsiring when you see some of the trash that has appeared in the tabloid media in the UK.

CoisFharraige

ED E wrote: »

IALPA head was on "da wireless" today.

http://pca.st/7nnD

"If not a majority an overwhelming minority of Ryanair pilots work on a precarious contract basis where they put 5-8 into a company as directors which then sub contracts into a UK company which then sub contracts into Ryanair" (Roughly transcribed folks)

Is this true? Quite screwy, basically Deliveroo in the skies.

Unfortunately. It also means RYR is in no way obliged to pay them for ANYTHING other than the service the provide. Any transfer or food or hotel costs are borne by the pilot's own company.

O'Leary issued defamation proceedings against IALPA and 'The Guardian' today. Even though he's getting knocked back by the momentum the crews have, he'll come back twice as strong. If the crews don't win this battle, there will undoubtedly be huge repurcussions for them after RYR leave the media for a while.

fr336

The pilots smell blood and are taking their chances. It may backfire dramatically on them once the media get bored though.

Wanderer78

fr336 wrote: »

The pilots smell blood and are taking their chances. It may backfire dramatically on them once the media get bored though.

it could indeed and best of luck to them, it might be their only chance

devnull

I would imagine the Mail won't be far behind, some of the stuff in that rag this week has been diaboloical.

fr336

devnull wrote: »

I would imagine the Mail won't be far behind, some of the stuff in that rag this week has been diaboloical.

Surely even FR's critics would back them in a fight with that load of crap.

devnull

This is one of the worst:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4898590/Ryanair-marketing-boss-boasts-busy-week.html

fr336

devnull wrote: »

This is one of the worst:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4898590/Ryanair-marketing-boss-boasts-busy-week.html

Oh what brilliant 'journalists' they are, stalking people's social media and private conversations. You'd think Michael, Kenny and co were enjoying all this and did it on purpose or something! The media these days is absolutely pathetic.

P.S. Is Robin Kiely even still with FR, I thought he'd left though I may have dreamt that

P.P.S. I'd be interested in how the DM treat their journalists especially the junior ones. Someone should investigate it. The Guardian probably have already, but I guess barely anyone reads it.

devnull

The best paragraph of that article is near the top and appears to be the basis for the whole article.

Mr Jacobs was in a pub last night after sitting next to his boss Michael O'Leary at an extraordinary press conference in Dublin where Europe's largest airline cancelled 2,024 flights before the end of October.

Jacob's wasn't even at the press conference....

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

The best paragraph of that article is near the top and appears to be the basis for the whole article.



Jacob's wasn't even at the press conference....

theyd be right to sue them over that ****e

lintdrummer

Stevek101 wrote: »

Apparently some open letter from the staff is doing the rounds. Anyone have any insight?

I've seen one such letter, though I won't publish it here as I'm not sure it's in the public domain. It basically questions the vagueness and validity of the offer Ryanair are making to pilots.
It goes on to suggest the potential of a work to rule scenario and that the group are open to discussion.

Tenger

Stevek101 wrote: »

Apparently some open letter from the staff is doing the rounds. Anyone have any insight?

I got this from an acquaintance in FR

Wanderer78

Tenger wrote: »

I got this from an acquaintance in FR

sums up our current situation globally of 'increasing worker insecurity', its scary really. i wish them the very best of luck, its an extremely risky process, but i hope they get what they need, which ultimately is just 'security' and a bit of respect.

devnull

Tenger wrote: »

I got this from an acquaintance in FR

Ridicolous, they're never going to get the wages of legacy carriers, if they were aiming for terms and conditions in line with higher payers of low cost airlines I could see their point a little but what they say is totally in contradiction with their last sentence in their demands.

I had a little sympathy for the staff before in this, now any sympathy I have had in the past is gone because it's basically blackmail. It also sounds like it has not been written by a current Ryanair employee, hence the "most of us quit" part.

devnull

Wanderer78 wrote: »

sums up our current situation globally of 'increasing worker insecurity', its scary really. i wish them the very best of luck, its an extremely risky process, but i hope they get what they need, which ultimately is just 'security' and a bit of respect.

It's about money and the European Cockpit Association and the IALPA using the staff in Ryanair for their own agenda at the end of the day from everything that I see.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were involved in some of the letters.

lintdrummer

Tenger wrote: »

I got this from an acquaintance in FR

Hadn't seen this before, is it genuine? Surprised it hasn't made the media if so, considering they are threatening not to work tomorrow.

john boye

billy few mates wrote: »

What would happen if the pilots in Ryanair suddenly got together and decided they were going on a work to rule but going by O'Leary's interpretation of the rules and were only going to work eighteen hours a week max?
By his logic there should be no interruption to the schedule...

Well yes he'd be quite screwed then and would have to find a way to explain where exactly he got his 18hr weeks from. Incidentally, I don't at all agree with him manipulating figures like this. What I'm saying though is that he is that he is a master at working the press. As someone who works in media I just appreciate that it's quite a useful talent to have especially in situations like this.

Squatter

devnull wrote: »

Ridicolous, they're never going to get the wages of legacy carriers, if they were aiming for terms and conditions in line with higher payers of low cost airlines I could see their point a little but what they say is totally in contradiction with their last sentence in their demands.

I had a little sympathy for the staff before in this, now any sympathy I have had in the past is gone because it's basically blackmail. It also sounds like it has not been written by a current Ryanair employee, hence the "most of us quit" part.

Rather poorly written too!

So what is the value of a letter that starts with the words "We the undersigned" and has no signatures at the bottom?

It reminds me of what Groucho Marx once said about verbal contracts!

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

Ridicolous, they're never going to get the wages of legacy carriers, if they were aiming for terms and conditions in line with higher payers of low cost airlines I could see their point a little but what they say is totally in contradiction with their last sentence in their demands.

I had a little sympathy for the staff before in this, now any sympathy I have had in the past is gone because it's basically blackmail. It also sounds like it has not been written by a current Ryanair employee, hence the "most of us quit" part.

whos blackmailing who here? people such as noam chomsky have been talking about growing worker insecurity globally for years now. this situation is exactly what these people have been writing about, we re watching it all unfold

devnull wrote: »

It's about money and the European Cockpit Association and the IALPA using the staff in Ryanair for their own agenda at the end of the day from everything that I see.

again, this is exactly what the neoliberal/neoclassical model is about, i.e.break down the unions, expose workers and introduce worker insecurity, and as somebody like alan greenspan would say, its good for the economy, the only problem is, hes talking about the economy of the minority