Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

devnull

Latest article in the Daily Mail has the following image claiming that because of the large volume cancellations the Ryanair Check in desks in the airport are empty, once again giving the impression the situation is much worse than it is.



Then in the same article way down they say that the desks are overcrowded because of complaints and people are stuck.

Have to laugh at this crap journalism.

Mebuntu

I got this from an acquaintance in FR

What a laughable load of horse manure that document is. Even SIPTU et al in their wildest days wouldn't have produced such drivel.

They are obviously being egged on by outside influences who should keep their noses out of affairs that have nothing to do with them.

john boye

devnull wrote: »

Latest article in the Daily Mail has the following image claiming that because of the large volume cancellations the Ryanair Check in desks in the airport are empty, once again giving the impression the situation is much worse than it is.



Then in the same article way down they say that the desks are overcrowded because of complaints and people are stuck.

Have to laugh at this crap journalism.

If my Mrs can stop looking at the daily mail site then you can too mate!

devnull

Mebuntu wrote: »

They are obviously being egged on by outside influences who should keep their noses out of affairs that have nothing to do with them.

The outside influences I reckon are using these pilots, some of them would quite like to do Ryanair damage because of the fact the growth of Ryanair has resulted in legacy airlines having to lower their fares which has effected their members in these airlines - these unions and groups would not be doing their job correctly if they were not standing up for their members in the legacy airlines.

Ryanair Pilots have to be very careful about this, if they want to make representrations to MOL about the terms and condition I don't have a problem with that, but they should not allow their decisions and demands to be influenced by people who clearly will not have their best interests in mind and will have their own agenda.

devnull

john boye wrote: »

If my Mrs can stop looking at the daily mail site then you can too mate!

It's just amusing that they go so low - they even managed to link Brexit to that article too!

john boye

devnull wrote: »

john boye wrote: »

If my Mrs can stop looking at the daily mail site then you can too mate!

It's just amusing that they go so low - they even managed to link Brexit to that article too!

And I can understand that to an extent but don't forget that that click you're giving them will be taken by them as justification for running articles like that. And that's all they want. Power of one and all that....

jimmycrackcorm

Tenger wrote:

This could in fact be beneficial to the company financially, do they still buy back their own shares?

A319er wrote:

Well it's not really all about the share value, it's a people business and He has lost his people touch. He really made a mess of the customers perception Of this pilot shortage, he lied to them and under valued them. They were just 2 per cent after all, he would not have made this mistake in the past, his team are not quite as smart as they once were and I still believe he needs a new challenge, yes a quick winter sale will get punters back in board but there are now a new breed of FR doubters and they will think twice before booking FR again

Most people will view it as exceptional, after all AL has had more strikes. People will take up seats on sale.

There's also perhaps a point that many people take cheap flights only because they are cheap and if they get canceled then it might not be as big a deal for some.

As for pilot shortages, they'll have to take some measures like they are attempting to fill that gap but giving in to the contract demands won't be one of those.

I think he'd rather close militant bases than give in.

ED E wrote:

Is this true? Quite screwy, basically Deliveroo in the skies.

Its very common in IT for people to be contractors. They have no issues with short contracts and lack of job security.

devnull

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Its very common in IT for people to be contractors. They have no issues with short contracts and lack of job security.

The job security argument is laughable if you ask me.

On one hand they're saying that Ryanair can't keep pilots and people want to get out and on the other hand they are saying that job security is an issue which suggests that a lot of people actually want to stay or they wouldn't be bothered about job security in the first place.

That's before the other obvious hole that if Ryanair are so desperate for pilots they claim, then surely that would make their jobs more secure as they can't afford to lose any rather than an organisation that had too many pilots that could afford to lose a few?

bmm

O'Leary alienating the pilots further! What kind of buffoonery is that. He just cannot help himself! Still a bitter and twisted squirt of a man, and with all the riches he has!

Bob24

Squatter wrote: »

Rather poorly written too!

So what is the value of a letter that starts with the words "We the undersigned" and has no signatures at the bottom?

You can disagree with the content of the letter (assuming it is genuine and was indeed handed to the company, some of it seems strange to me). But if the only criticism is that a leaked low resolution document starts with “We the undersigned” and is not signed, that’s pretty poor. If it is genuine it looks like a screenshot of a draft document which might be truncated and is not meant for official release. There is no indication that if this letter was ever given to Ryanair officially it was not signed.

Panthro

devnull wrote: »

Latest article in the Daily Mail has the following image claiming that because of the large volume cancellations the Ryanair Check in desks in the airport are empty, once again giving the impression the situation is much worse than it is.



Then in the same article way down they say that the desks are overcrowded because of complaints and people are stuck.

Have to laugh at this crap journalism.

A Ryanair check in desk?!
Check in desks are like sooo last Centennial.
If it's not available in an app then it should be put down, am I royit

billy few mates

Would the stock market not be inclined to look more favourably on the value of an institution (like Ryanair) who had an agreement guaranteeing industrial harmony with an employee group (like the pilots) who have the potential to bring it down?

devnull

billy few mates wrote: »

Would the stock market not be inclined to look more favourably on the value of an institution (like Ryanair) who had an agreement guaranteeing industrial harmony with an employee group (like the pilots) who have the potential to bring it down?

No, because if MOL gives into them now they will do the same every single time there is the slightest issue which will actually do the opposite but create harmony, it would just give the people the knowledge they can win therefore more likely to do it.

It would also certainly hit profitability.

Blut2

Good on the Ryanair pilots. They've been treated like crap for years by Ryanair, now they know its their moment of opportunity. The very least they should hold out for is proper employment contracts (ie what most pilots elsewhere have) and the right to unionize. Whatever about specific industry comparable low wage levels, Ryanair's use of "contractors" and ban on organization are especially egregious on just a basic employment rights level.

Ryanair is also massively profitable, so MOL has no leg to stand on. Its about time the employees at the front line shared in some of those profits.

The BBC earlier quoted that pilots at 30 of the 80 Ryanair bases were coordinating to give an ultimatum to corporate. Even if that doesn't climb (and I would expect it to) they're in a great position for demanding reform right now.

Silverbling

Despite all of the media we are discussing pilots, who literally have our lives in their hands.

I do a connecting flight every year Ryan air to Lisbon, Lisbon to Funchal via Easyjet because of the pilots who from Lisbon can do the very dodgy windy Funchal landing (you tube it if you are not a nervous flyer)

This year we had such high winds 50 odd flights were cancelled but our Lisbon flight got out due to a very experienced pilot and to be fair a lot of luck.

If it means reducing the shareholders huge yearly pay out and customers paying an extra fiver to the pilot and not to Ryanair to sit next to my child then I would pay it.

Pilots need food and water supplied, they need to not be knackered or stressed, pilots are well trained to keep us safe, and what MOL seems to be missing is that without pilots he has no business.

Even worse is having pilots that have not decamped and the passengers not believing in their safety because they are not sure if they failed getting hired elsewhere.

I am very unsure what to do next summer, I usually book the flights around now but I need to know 100% that my pilot is fit to fly and not just because he is within his hours, MOL is making this a much bigger problem than it should be by putting conditions on the pilots giving up leave for a bonus they might get in 12 months as long as they do not catch the flu, it is not inspiring confidence.

The Rape of Lucretia

Blut2 wrote: »

They've been treated like crap for years by Ryanair. The very least they should hold out for is proper employment contracts (ie what most pilots elsewhere have) and the right to unionize.

Is this really the case though ? While O'Leary in his trademark style goes for tactless quips like 'glorified taxidrivers', fundamentally, is he not really correct ? But its the other way around. Ryanair pilots are treated unfairly compared to other airlines - but its the other airlines who are the ones out of step. A legacy expectation, pay, conditions, etc, dating from when pilots were extremely highly paid, and treated like gods. Things change. Do the training years, ability requirement, and working schedule really justify the salaries pilots get in varying degrees else where ?
Am not a specialist in the industry. But just asking the question that is not a leading one. Perhaps, O'Leary is the man at the forefront of a needed correction ?

billy few mates

devnull wrote: »

No, because if MOL gives into them now they will do the same every single time there is the slightest issue which will actually do the opposite but create harmony, it would just give the people the knowledge they can win therefore more likely to do it.

It would also certainly hit profitability.

You can't really say that for certain, besides that's not how these agreements work. The company sits down and negotiates a binding agreement that's mutually acceptable and that brings with it a level of certainty against situations like this which has to be seen as a positive to potential investors. Once this current crisis is resolved that should be it...until the next time it happens!
MOL has invested a lot of energy attempting to undermine the value of this section of his workforce but if anything this whole cock up has shown just how important they are to the success or failure of the company.
I personally think it might be time for him to bury the hatchet and start conceding to at least some of their requests. As unpalatable as it might seem, it's got to be better than the current situation which will only continue to fester.

Failing that, a 99c seat sale would also go a long way towards restoring consumer confidence...

uck51js9zml2yt

Came across this today.

https://www.thelocal.it/20170921/italys-antitrust-authority-has-opened-a-probe-into-ryanair-over-mass-cancellations

Blut2

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is this really the case though ? While O'Leary in his trademark style goes for tactless quips like 'glorified taxidrivers', fundamentally, is he not really correct ? But its the other way around. Ryanair pilots are treated unfairly compared to other airlines - but its the other airlines who are the ones out of step. A legacy expectation, pay, conditions, etc, dating from when pilots were extremely highly paid, and treated like gods. Things change. Do the training years, ability requirement, and working schedule really justify the salaries pilots get in varying degrees else where ?
Am not a specialist in the industry. But just asking the question that is not a leading one. Perhaps, O'Leary is the man at the forefront of a needed correction ?

Yes, it is the case. Airline pilots are more comparable to open heart surgeons than taxi drivers, in terms of both the years of expensive training they undergo and in the amount of lives that they're responsible for. Thats why they deserve a good wage.

I would not be happy putting my life and the lives of my family in the hands of someone on minimum wage whos done a two month training program, personally.

Squatter

Bob24 wrote: »

You can disagree with the content of the letter (assuming it is genuine and was indeed handed to the company, some of it seems strange to me). But if the only criticism is that a leaked low resolution document starts with “We the undersigned” and is not signed, that’s pretty poor. If it is genuine it looks like a screenshot of a draft document which might be truncated and is not meant for official release. There is no indication that if this letter was ever given to Ryanair officially it was not signed.

Believe me, that's not my only criticism!

In fact, my comment: "what is the value of a letter that starts with the words "We the undersigned" and has no signatures at the bottom?"
wasn't even a criticism, but more a rhetorical question. (That's why it had a question mark at the end!)

devnull

Brady White Thigh wrote: »

Came across this today.

https://www.thelocal.it/20170921/italys-antitrust-authority-has-opened-a-probe-into-ryanair-over-mass-cancellations

Some might say that the Italians should start looking at their own airlines first and some of the practices that went on there in relation to commercial actions.

devnull

Blut2 wrote: »

I would not be happy putting my life and the lives of my family in the hands of someone on minimum wage whos done a two month training program, personally.

Who mentioned minimum wage?

vicwatson

637,000.000 pilots needed in the next 20 years. O'Leary air's policy coming back to bite him in the ass.

Squatter

Blut2 wrote: »

Even if that doesn't climb (and I would expect it to) they're in a great position for demanding reform right now...............

..................... until the winter schedule starts in about 5 weeks' time. Then, all bets are off. So Mucker just needs to hang in there!

The Rape of Lucretia

Blut2 wrote: »

Yes, it is the case. Airline pilots are more comparable to open heart surgeons than taxi drivers, in terms of both the years of expensive training they undergo and in the amount of lives that they're responsible for. Thats why they deserve a good wage.

I would not be happy putting my life and the lives of my family in the hands of someone on minimum wage whos done a two month training program, personally.

They are ? Heart surgeons take 12-15 years to qualify.
I thought a pilot was 2-3 ? Which timewise is not even a lower level degree really.
I dont thing the lives argument counts for anything at all. A bus driver in a city could plow into a hundred pedestrians - but that doesnt mean he has a very high responsibility job.

Blut2

devnull wrote: »

Who mentioned minimum wage?

The poster I was replying to who asked were pilot not comparable to taxi drivers. Taxi drivers don't earn far off minimum wage.

The Rape of Lucretia

devnull wrote: »

Who mentioned minimum wage?

Or a two month training programme ?

uck51js9zml2yt

vicwatson wrote: »

637,000.000 pilots needed in the next 20 years. O'Leary air's policy coming back to bite him in the ass.

Maybe the government will set up a Spring Board course;)

devnull

vicwatson wrote: »

637,000.000 pilots needed in the next 20 years. O'Leary air's policy coming back to bite him in the ass.

If the low cost model goes to the wall and average fares across the industry go up I guess there will be less people flying so less pilots will be needed.

Blut2

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They are ? Heart surgeons take 12-15 years to qualify.
I thought a pilot was 2-3 ? Which timewise is not even a lower level degree really.
I dont thing the lives argument counts for anything at all. A bus driver in a city could plow into a hundred pedestrians - but that doesnt mean he has a very high responsibility job.

Its a minimum of 6 years, but anywhere up to 15 years to reach the captain's chair on a plane.

The responsibility for lives, doing a highly technical job, is the main reason they deserve such a high salary. The main issue is not what a malicious worker could do, its what an incompetent worker would do. A pilot with a low skill level is orders of magnitude more likely to result in deaths than a taxi driver.

And even using your point, if you insist, a malicious pilot could fly his plane into a skyscraper and cause thousands of deaths, if he saw fit to. So again orders of magnitude higher than a taxi driver.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Or a two month training programme ?

You compared pilots to taxi drivers in job difficulty levels. I was probably kind with two months, would a two week training program be more accurate?

(to be clear I'm not against taxi drivers at all here. But its just not at all comparable to being an airline pilot as a profession.)