Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

A Dub in Glasgo

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its the Commission for Aviation Regulation not the IAA who deal with such action.

There is the problem straight away then... 2 bodies for regulation and I bet one looks at the other and says 'you should be doing that'

Wanderer78

fr336 wrote:

Absolutely hilarious that MOL is apparently suddenly a failure. They posted over a BILLION euros of profit AFTER tax this year. If anything FR relies too heavily on him. Lots of business experts out there on here, Twitter, Facebook....yawn yawn yawn. Oh and FR's share price rose 2% today.......

billy few mates wrote:

This company was was once our greatest economic success story, it's a laughing stock now.

Again, the money of the minority will not be harmed by this! This company is still a 'great economic success story' as large corporations are not there for the benefit of the majority.

Jamie2k9

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

There is the problem straight away then... 2 bodies for regulation and I bet one looks at the other and says 'you should be doing that'

Not really, CAR remit is passenger focused, IAA is ATC, operational and safety.

A Dub in Glasgo

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not really, CAR remit is passenger focused, IAA is ATC, operational and safety.

Why not one body then?

Jamie2k9

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Why not one body then?

No idea but they are tasked with enforcing EU law and protecting consumers so it's up to them to take action.

They were established in 2001 (I think) around the time regulation of Dublin began.

lucernarian

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not really, CAR remit is passenger focused, IAA is ATC, operational and safety.

A different kettle of fish, but a similar concept was applied to financial regulation in Ireland until the IMF practically told Ireland to bring it all back under the Central Bank roof.

The criticism made about the consumer protection part at the time, seems uncannily similar now with the CAR not saying boo to the quasi-dominant goose.

billy few mates

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fr336 wrote:

Absolutely hilarious that MOL is apparently suddenly a failure. They posted over a BILLION euros of profit AFTER tax this year. If anything FR relies too heavily on him. Lots of business experts out there on here, Twitter, Facebook....yawn yawn yawn. Oh and FR's share price rose 2% today.......

billy few mates wrote:

This company was was once our greatest economic success story, it's a laughing stock now.

Again, the money of the minority will not be harmed by this! This company is still a 'great economic success story' as large corporations are not there for the benefit of the majority.

Yes, only 2% of the passengers affected by any of this, the other 98% are merely looking over their shoulders hoping their flights won't be next, how can the market have any confidence in the medium to long term future of the company when the travelling public don't?

A €9.99 seat sale, a couple of hundred new pilots and a plan to ground a number of aircraft but so far I haven't seen anything to convince me they've done enough to solve the root cause of the problem, the turnover of experienced pilots.
Very difficult to get a reputation back once you lose it.

Bazzy

View Profile wrote: »

He was momumental 20 odd years ago, times have moved on. He needs to adapt or get out!

You're right, people will forget with time. However this is very different from anything Ryanair faced previously.
They are cancelling massive amounts of flights, affecting nearly half a million people's plans. Those people, their families, their bosses and friends will not forget that inconvenience as easily. This inconvenience is not going away after a few days or weeks. It is continuing well into next year and most likely well beyond that.
I can assure you that passengers will be wary to book a ticket, even if it were free, with an airline that is cancelling flights as part of a longterm strategy.

Times have moved on but if the prices of flights started sky rocketing peoples travel plans would change and less people would travel so theres no adaption required

People forgot about the BA computer system failure very quickly the EU govern this and people who are entitled to compensation will be compensated and those who are not will be given a refund ,

People have been given plenty of notice of cancelled flights this time and apart from the inconvenience of having to book with someone else the biggest gripe I guarantee you will be the fact the flights were a lot more expensive with the competitor.

Flights being cancelled is a fact of life but I really they are providing adequate notice and giving people enough time to seek alternative arrangements, The last minute cancellations will still be sore with a lot of people but a €9.99 seat will ease that woe in the near future

View Profile

The BA computer failure was a once off single event.
Ryanair's problem is ongoing and because MOL isn't dealing with the issue at hand, the problem will only continue.
People are naive if they think, that when the summer schedule starts next April, these cancellations won't continue.

So the idea of "this will blow over" or people will always go for the cheap tickets no matter what is nonsense!
Media all over Europe are reporting theses cancellations- passengers will therefore book with a reliable carrier instead. Unfortunately for Ryanair, they are no longer the reliable airline they once were.

Bazzy

View Profile wrote: »

The BA computer failure was a once off single event.
Ryanair's problem is ongoing and because MOL isn't dealing with the issue at hand, the problem will only continue.
People are naive if they think, that when the summer schedule starts next April, these cancellations won't continue.

So the idea of "this will blow over" or people will always go for the cheap tickets no matter what is nonsense!
Media all over Europe are reporting theses cancellations- passengers will therefore book with a reliable carrier instead. Unfortunately for Ryanair, they are no longer the reliable airline they once were.

Fully agree with the reliability comment they're not as reliable as they were.

By next summer they will have had adequate time to recruit new staff as needed but what people are not giving a second thought to is the fact that the more the pilots demand ( they have O'leary over a barrel) the more they get from it thats a cost to the company and thats only going to be passed onto one person the customer

I can see this storm blown over in 5 or 6 months

murphaph

People may also become concerned if they think Ryanair pilots are all relatively young and inexperienced if they keep hearing that the experienced ones are constantly leaving. Just a thought.

Brennus335

murphaph wrote: »

People may also become concerned if they think Ryanair pilots are all relatively young and inexperienced if they keep hearing that the experienced ones are constantly leaving. Just a thought.

Yes, they are relatively young and inexperienced. However, one thing you can't fault about Ryanair is the standard of their training.
I've trained many ex-ryanair Captains and F/Os when they moved to my current airline, and the standard is very good.

Bob24

The more this unfolds the more difficult it gets to find excuses for MOL’s management:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/flood-of-complaints-as-british-regulator-furious-with-ryanair-1.3236895

Of course he grew Ryanair to be a very successful business and no one can deny that, but at the same time when regulators go on record saying things (amongst others) like “I don’t believe that they have made a commitment to comply with the law. We made it clear to them that their behaviour thus far is unacceptable”; it is a clear sign of very bad management. Having disgruntled employees is one thing which can be considered irrelevant as long as the business thrives, but falling on the wrong side of the law and getting in trouble with regulators is unacceptable no matter what.

fr336

Brennus335 wrote: »

Yes, they are relatively young and inexperienced. However, one thing you can't fault about Ryanair is the standard of their training.
I've trained many ex-ryanair Captains and F/Os when they moved to my current airline, and the standard is very good.

Now there's a quote no Daily Mail 'journalist' would be in the least bit interested in.

Brennus335

fr336 wrote: »

Now there's a quote no Daily Mail 'journalist' would be in the least bit interested in.

True, but neither would MOL himself. Sure it's a very easy job...

devnull

Bob24 wrote: »

The more this unfolds the more difficult it gets to find excuses for MOL’s management:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/flood-of-complaints-as-british-regulator-furious-with-ryanair-1.3236895

Of course he grew Ryanair to be a very successful business and no one can deny that, but at the same time when regulators go on record saying things (amongst others) like “I don’t believe that they have made a commitment to comply with the law. We made it clear to them that their behaviour thus far is unacceptable”; it is a clear sign of very bad management. Having disgruntled employees is one thing which can be considered irrelevant as long as the business thrives, but falling on the wrong side of the law and getting in trouble with regulators is unacceptable no matter what.

I agree that the CAA should be involved, but I don't remember them being so harsh on some of the airlines that are registered in their own country in the past.

etselbbuns

SkyNews doorstepping newly hired pilots @ Ryanair HQ

joeysoap

devnull wrote: »

I agree that the CAA should be involved, but I don't remember them being so harsh on some of the airlines that are registered in their own country in the past.

Give a dog a bad name.

But if that dog comes back and bites you again. And again. And again.

joeysoap

etselbbuns wrote: »

SkyNews doorstepping newly hired pilots @ Ryanair HQ

They didn't use the C word.

1123heavy

Where are our regulator? Really it is embarassing. Ryanair are an Irish airline, it should be the Irish regulators making sure they stay in line. This does us no favours when the British are the only ones actually showing concern for the consumer. Are they still fit for purpose?

I have always had a very high opinion of the IAA. It has dropped like a rock from a cliff after this incident.

And someone said above me that the IAA have been strong with Ryanair as they forced them to change the calender year in the first place. Well actually, the IAA only forced this upon Ryanair after EASA forced it upon the IAA. The IAA did not want to change it. They were only forced to do so when you had guys leaving Ireland to work for other European operators and those operators suddenly discovered they couldn't get nearly as many hours out of their new hires from Ireland because they'd already been worked to near the limits due to the way Irish operators were interpreting the 'calendar year'.

The operators of other nations put pressure on their authorities, who put pressure on EASA, who then delivered an ultimatum to the IAA to change within a given date.

billy few mates

"People have been given plenty of notice of cancelled flights this time and apart from the inconvenience of having to book with someone else the biggest gripe I guarantee you will be the fact the flights were a lot more expensive with the competitor."

I disagree with this, I believe people will pay a premium to fly with their competitors for the certainty and the peace of mind that their travel plans won't be disrupted by events like these.
All well and good the regulator telling you what you can claim for when it all goes wrong but I don't want to stuck somewhere trying to get Ryanair to acknowledge my rights, and if I have to pay a premium to do that then I'm prepared to pay for it.
Some people might want to 'take a punt' on a cheap Ryanair flight for a discretionary weekend away but a lot of the business and family travel they rely on needs certainty and it's just not there at the moment.

Pity because there is an obvious solution but it involves coming to a deal with the pilot group and 'that just ain't gonna happen' under the current regime as it would involve too much of a loss of face, far easier to try and ride it out and use the cash reserves to fund the fallout...

A Dub in Glasgo

1123heavy wrote: »

Where are our regulator? Really it is embarassing. Ryanair are an Irish airline, it should be the Irish regulators making sure they stay in line. This does us no favours when the British are the only ones actually showing concern for the consumer. Are they still fit for purpose?

I have always had a very high opinion of the IAA. It has dropped like a rock from a cliff after this incident.

And someone said above me that the IAA have been strong with Ryanair as they forced them to change the calender year in the first place. Well actually, the IAA only forced this upon Ryanair after EASA forced it upon the IAA. The IAA did not want to change it. They were only forced to do so when you had guys leaving Ireland to work for other European operators and those operators suddenly discovered they couldn't get nearly as many hours out of their new hires from Ireland because they'd already been worked to near the limits due to the way Irish operators were interpreting the 'calendar year'.

The operators of other nations put pressure on their authorities, who put pressure on EASA, who then delivered an ultimatum to the IAA to change within a given date.

Apparently, aviation regulation in Ireland is split across two bodies and the one that should be dealing with this is the Commission for Aviation Regulation and not the Irish Aviation Authority.

The People's Front of Judea or the Judean Peoples Front from 'The Life of Brian' springs to mind

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

I agree that the CAA should be involved, but I don't remember them being so harsh on some of the airlines that are registered in their own country in the past.

National regulators being soft handed with business registered in their country due to collusion or as they feel pressure to protect local economic activity is a real issue and probably why Irish authorities are not doing anything about Ryanair (or about a company like Facebook when they infringe European data privacy regulations), unless their European watchdogs force them to.

But on the other hand it shouldn’t be used as an excuse for Ryanair’s behaviour. The CAA wouldn’t kick off these processes if there was nothing serious to justify it.

First Up

There seems no longer to be a list of the current cancellations on their website  There's stuff about the winter cancellations but nothing else.

flaneur

I noticed the attitude in the UK at the moment seems to be turning a bit anti-irish. I heard a radio interview earlier on BBC oddly enough which was wondering why the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority in the UK) couldn't pull their licence. It was being pointed out that it's because they're registered in Ireland and that pulling their licence would be a BIT harsh and unlikely anyway at this stage.

But it was all "well it's because of the EU" that we can't just deal with it locally in the UK.

I realise the UK's a big market for them, but they're an international airline with a lot of routes in many other countries too.

__..__

More cancellations announced from Dublin .
Two flights I recently booked now cancelled.
That's definitely me finished with Ryanair.
They said last week that the list of cancellations was final. Pure lies.

Bob24

__..__ wrote: »

More cancellations announced from Dublin .
Two flights I recently booked now cancelled.
That's definitely me finished with Ryanair.
They said last week that the list of cancellations was final. Pure lies.

What were the rough dates for those flights if you don’t mind posting here?

devnull

__..__ wrote: »

More cancellations announced from Dublin .
Two flights I recently booked now cancelled.
That's definitely me finished with Ryanair.
They said last week that the list of cancellations was final. Pure lies.

The Dublin cancellations that are being today reported in the media were cancelled as part of the ones which were announced earlier this week, they are not additional cancellations to those.

etselbbuns

joeysoap wrote: »

They didn't use the C word.

Chaos. Crisis. Cancels. :cool:

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

The Dublin cancellations that are being today reported in the media were cancelled as part of the ones which were announced earlier this week, they are not additional cancellations to those.

The journalist could be wrong, but the way I read this they clearly say those are additional cancellations which were not published before:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-reveals-hundreds-of-flights-from-dublin-to-be-cancelled-1.3236895