Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

pilly

Bob24 wrote: »

The journalist could be wrong, but the way I read this they clearly say those are additional cancellations which were not published before:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-reveals-hundreds-of-flights-from-dublin-to-be-cancelled-1.3236895

Looks very much like that's new to me because yesterdays list of cancellations didn't include any flights from Dublin.

devnull

Bob24 wrote: »

The journalist could be wrong, but the way I read this they clearly say those are additional cancellations which were not published before:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-reveals-hundreds-of-flights-from-dublin-to-be-cancelled-1.3236895

The journalist clearly misunderstood the statement that was issued yesterday.

Ryanair said that a large number of flights would be cancelled yesterday including some routes that would be suspended for the winter season.

The reduction in flights is made up of routes that will not be operated for the winter as well as cuts to other routes, that was quite obvious to me, I had a route cancelled to/from Birmingham but was given a place on an earlier flight yesterday for instance.

devnull

pilly wrote: »

Looks very much like that's new to me because yesterdays list of cancellations didn't include any flights from Dublin.

Yesterdays list said that a number of flights were cancelled which would include a number of routes that would not operate for the winter season, I was always under the impression that the cancellations were a mixture of route suspensions and frequency cuts.

The following 34 routes are suspended for the winter season from November to March 2018

<snip>

All other of Ryanair’s 1,800 routes will continue to operate for the winter. Some have had schedule changes but customers have been offered alternative flights on their chosen route or a full refund.

That's fairly unamgibious that the cancellations are a mixture of route suspensions and schedule changes/cuts.

pilly

devnull wrote: »

Yesterdays list said that a number of flights were cancelled which would include a number of routes that would not operate for the winter season, I was always under the impression that the cancellations were a mixture of route suspensions and frequency cuts.

So you've already stated. :rolleyes: Just because you were under that impression that does not apply to everyone.

Probably the reason the CAA have said that Ryanair are "persistently misleading customers and not providing the information clearly"

arch_stanton

Yesterday (or the day before) they announced a list of cancelled routes. Now there is a new list with cancellations of specific flights on other routes. I thought they did the right thing in getting it all out in the open but it looks now like there could be a further drip, drip of random changes

pilly

devnull wrote: »

Yesterdays list said that a number of flights were cancelled which would include a number of routes that would not operate for the winter season, I was always under the impression that the cancellations were a mixture of route suspensions and frequency cuts.

Schedule changes and Cancellations two completely different things?

devnull

pilly wrote: »

So you've already stated. :rolleyes: Just because you were under that impression that does not apply to everyone.

Indeed, I can read the press release by the press office who explained it pretty clearly that the latest batch of cancellations involve route suspensions and schedule changes, I'm unsure why the rest of the media are not able to.

pilly

devnull wrote: »

Indeed, I can read the press release by the press office who explained it pretty clearly that the latest batch of cancellations involve route suspensions and schedule changes, I'm unsure why the rest of the media are not able to.

Since you're fond of repeating yourself I'll do the same. Schedule changes and cancellations are not the same thing.

devnull

pilly wrote: »

Schedule changes and Cancellations two completely different things?

What is a schedule?

a plan for carrying out a process or procedure, giving lists of intended events and times

The plan for carrying out a procedure at events and times has changed, some of which are running at different times and some are being removed.

It's pretty unambigious to me.

pilly

devnull wrote: »

Yesterdays list said that a number of flights were cancelled which would include a number of routes that would not operate for the winter season, I was always under the impression that the cancellations were a mixture of route suspensions and frequency cuts.



That's fairly unamgibious that the cancellations are a mixture of route suspensions and schedule changes/cuts.

Also says that customers have "been offered an alternative or refund" as in past tense as if this had already been done and then customers start receiving emails today?

devnull

pilly wrote: »

Since you're fond of repeating yourself I'll do the same. Schedule changes and cancellations are not the same thing.

I guess me and you will not agree on it but the 3 mails I've had in the last 6 years from Ryanair where I've been moved to another flight because my one no longer runs have been referenced to as a Schedule Change by Ryanair

For me schedule change is an overarching term that can cover adding, removing, modifying, editing or moving a flight, least that's my experience of how it's worked in my career in a completely different industry.

Bob24

Yeah I was checking the statement here: http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-to-end-rostering-cancellations-by-slowing-growth-this-winter/

The confusion is probably caused by the way they worded the statement so that they only list fully cancelled routes but not routes which see partial cancellations.

So the journalist is actually correct in saying:

“When it published a list of routes to be cut this winter yesterday, it appeared only one Irish route would be affected – with the airline halting all flights from London Gatwick to Belfast. However, it later emerged that flights to and from other Irish airports were also being cancelled, as passengers started receiving emails with details of disruption to their travel plans. The airline published the list of those flights on Thursday.”

But as you read this you have to keep in mind the difference between a cut route and a cancelled flight.

devnull

pilly wrote: »

Also says that customers have "been offered an alternative or refund" as in past tense as if this had already been done and then customers start receiving emails today?

Where did someone say they got an email today specifically.

I got an email yesterday about my flight to/from Birmingham.

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

Where did someone say they got an email today specifically.

The OP can confirm, but when I read this post I think they are implying they got the email today?

__..__ wrote: »

More cancellations announced from Dublin .
Two flights I recently booked now cancelled.
That's definitely me finished with Ryanair.
They said last week that the list of cancellations was final. Pure lies.

pilly

devnull wrote: »

I guess me and you will not agree on it but the 3 mails I've had in the last 6 years from Ryanair where I've been moved to another flight because my one no longer runs have been referenced to as a Schedule Change by Ryanair

For me schedule change is an overarching term that can cover adding, removing, modifying, editing or moving a flight, least that's my experience of how it's worked in my career in a completely different industry.

Clue is in the words. Change does not equal Cancel.

You're right we're not going to agree.

Brennus335

pilly wrote: »

Clue is in the words. Change does not equal Cancel.

You're right we're not going to agree.

Don't bother wasting your time.
If MOL came out tomorrow and said "Polar bears are black", there's certain posters on here who would still say he was correct.

Mebuntu

One of the main problems the CAA have with FR is the issue of MOL saying they would not pay for cancellation passengers to fly with other airlines. In an interview on radio today when questioned on this matter an IAA rep stated that there was no clarity on this issue in the regulations and that there were different interpretations. That's why they hadn't pursued this aspect of the matter.

The Caveman

Our December Christmas flight was cancelled, and we received the email yesterday. Plus 2 x €80 vouchers.

In today news article, they mentioned our flight ,as one of the Dublin flights.

So i would say, it is just bad reporting.

joeysoap

etselbbuns wrote: »

Chaos. Crisis. Cancels. :cool:

Xhaos, Xrisis, Xancels just doesn't have the same ring to it :pac:

Bob24

The CAA has issued a new letter which is much more directive than the previous one: https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/News_files/2017/CAA%20letter%20to%20Ryanair%20-%20280917.pdf

They now seem to be in enforcement mode and list a number of things they “require” Ryanair to do and with a deadline for each of them.

Some of the requests actually involve Ryanair emailing *again* passengers from the first and second waves of cancellations and offering them more assistance and an option to claim back expenses incurred due to Ryanair originally misinforming them about their rights. That's gonna be a pain both in term of additional cost but I think most importantly as it will unearth again something which Ryanair thought was done and dusted with extra workload on their already busy support staff and another hit on their brand image.

devnull

Bob24 wrote: »

The CAA has issued a new letter which is more more directive than the previous one: https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/News/News_files/2017/CAA%20letter%20to%20Ryanair%20-%20280917.pdf

They now seem to be in enforcement mode and list a number of things they “require” Ryanair to do and with a deadline for each of them.

Pretty strong stuff but they appear to be being very heavy handed here some of those demands I've seen in relation to how passengers are treated have not been met by various other airlines in the past when I've had problems trying to get the same treatment.

For example booking on other airlines, I've had that refused twice in the past, booking on trains, I've also had that refused on ohter occasions and some of my friends and former colleagues in the UK have also had similar issues with other airlines. Nobody was interested in dealing with that though.

I'm wondering if I should retrospectively now raise a case with the UK registered airlines CC'ing the CAA and demanding that they now compensate me, for the airlines failure to comply with legislation about re-routing and the CAA's lack of enforcement in the past on other airlines?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

devnull - that sounds like whataboutery. Ryanair have handled this like a bunch of school kids and passengers have been affected. If you believe that the CAA are correct, you should be supporting this and sending in your retrospective letter. If you do not believe the CAA are correct then your previous refusal by airlines was correct

devnull

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

devnull - that sounds like whataboutery. Ryanair have handled this like a bunch of school kids and passengers have been affected. If you believe that the CAA are correct, you should be supporting this and sending in your retrospective letter. If you do not believe the CAA are correct then your previous refusal by airlines was correct

Don't worry - I will be watching this with interest because I could do with a few more thousand. I just need to find the original emails where the carriers said they were not obliged to do it then I'll be putting in a claim for every little thing under the sun.

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

Pretty strong stuff but they appear to be being very heavy handed here some of those demands I've seen in relation to how passengers are treated have not been met by various other airlines in the past when I've had problems trying to get the same treatment.

For example booking on other airlines, I've had that refused twice in the past, booking on trains, I've also had that refused on ohter occasions and some of my friends and former colleagues in the UK have also had similar issues with other airlines. Nobody was interested in dealing with that though.

I'm wondering if I should retrospectively now raise a case with the UK registered airlines CC'ing the CAA and demanding that they now compensate me, for the airlines failure to comply with legislation about re-routing and the CAA's lack of enforcement in the past on other airlines?

I think the reality is that on a high profile case like this consumers have more support from regulators than on smaller and more isolated issues (not just related to air travel, but related to any other industries such as banking or telecoms).

This is not an excuse for companies not handling small incidents properly though and you should definitely make claims, but on the other hand it does make sense for regulators to jump in and ensure proper enforcement of the regulations in a more energetic way when 100000s of people are affected (and I actually believe it does help with the small isolated cases in the future as these large scale and widely reported cases set the industry and the public's standard for what is acceptable or not, which will impact the way smaller issues are dealt with in the future).

Bazzy

devnull wrote: »

Don't worry - I will be watching this with interest because I could do with a few more thousand. I just need to find the original emails where the carriers said they were not obliged to do it then I'll be putting in a claim for every little thing under the sun.

But I fully agree here the rules are the rules and all must follow.

They could have potentially opened a big can of worms

duskyjoe

An observation......was out with a few die hard FR pax tonite......all booked the green team to the canary isles.

devnull

Bazzy wrote: »

But I fully agree here the rules are the rules and all must follow.

They could have potentially opened a big can of worms

For example, look at Wizz:
https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/travel-information/cancellation-information#/

If your flight is affected by a disruption (see below), please log in to your profile, retrieve your booking and you will be able to re-book online free of charge, or obtain a refund.

There's even less info there than there is on Ryanair's cancellation pages, they don't even mention EU261 at all, they don't mention re-routing via other airlines, they don't mention expenses or compensation whatsoever.

Jamie2k9

devnull wrote: »

For example, look at Wizz:
https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/travel-information/cancellation-information#/



There's even less info there than there is on Ryanair's cancellation pages, they don't even mention EU261 at all, they don't mention re-routing via other airlines, they don't mention expenses or compensation whatsoever.

You think FR always mentioned EU261........

devnull

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You think FR always mentioned EU261........

Every communication I've seen from them on their website has mentioned EU261 by name even if it's only in passing motion and nothing other than the actual name of the regulation, there was a line at the end of their articles on the website saying something like things will be done in-line with EU261 but noting else.