Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

Donal55

devnull wrote: »

I don't know any companies that have the whole of their workforce from across different countries negotiating terms and conditions together as one rather than on a country by country basis, since that would be grossly unfair to some workers on the basis that the cost of living is different in each country as well as other legislative requirements.

The RMT & Numast represent seafarers employed by Stena Line regardless of whether they live in England, Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland and the Rep.of Ireland.

ArnieSilvia

So many wife's brother is stranded in Barcelona. His flight back to Dublin this morning was cancelled last minute. They are totally useless, there are no flights out until Saturday and they are doing nothing for him.

To make things worse he was mugged in Barcelona yesterday and his wallet stolen. So he has literally no money, not a penny. Ryanair wont give him food vouchers anything, not a hotel to stay in - nothing. Absolutely disgraceful. I thought that was mandatory but apparently not. I had to book him a hotel myself but I'm now trying to find a way to get him to the hotel from the airport.

To top it all off he's Brazilian and does not speak English - a tiny amount of Spanish only. Guys is literally in tears over the phone after a nightmare day at this stage...

I'm sorry to hear that, I was very close to be in similar scenario (flight overbooked) - you can use western union money transfer to get him over the tide, pretty much instant (expensive).

Fattes

Zascar wrote: »

So many wife's brother is stranded in Barcelona. His flight back to Dublin this morning was cancelled last minute. They are totally useless, there are no flights out until Saturday and they are doing nothing for him.

To make things worse he was mugged in Barcelona yesterday and his wallet stolen. So he has literally no money, not a penny. Ryanair wont give him food vouchers anything, not a hotel to stay in - nothing. Absolutely disgraceful. I thought that was mandatory but apparently not. I had to book him a hotel myself but I'm now trying to find a way to get him to the hotel from the airport.

To top it all off he's Brazilian and does not speak English - a tiny amount of Spanish only. Guys is literally in tears over the phone after a nightmare day at this stage...

Is this really the standard practice? Can they get away with this?

I will do everything I can to never fly Ryanair ever again...

Air traffic control strike in France today, situation ls out of the airlines control and Ryanair or any air line are not obliged to provide food vouchers or anything else.

Sorry for his troubles but this one is not a ryanair cock up.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

joeysoap

Agree with Fred, they have to provide transport, hotel and meals. No comp though. Keep all receipts

Fattes

joeysoap wrote: »

Agree with Fred, they have to provide transport, hotel and meals. No comp though. Keep all receipts

Apologies, forgot extrodinary circumstances still allow for meal and hotel IF you take an alternative flight with the carrier v a refund

basill

Send him to the Brazilian embassy.

Doge

Guys I'd said post this here seen as I'll get a faster answer.
I have a non priority boarding pass with Ryanair and it has a seat number assigned to it.
Does this mean I'll definitely get this seat or is there still a big scramble for seats on Ryanair planes like there was in the past?

Doge

Doge wrote: »

Guys I'd said post this here seen as I'll get a faster answer.
I have a non priority boarding pass with Ryanair and it has a seat number assigned to it.
Does this mean I'll definitely get this seat or is there still a big scramble for seats on Ryanair planes like there was in the past?

Okay I think I've answered my own question!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/ryanair-scramble-seats-end-airline-2675582


Thank god for that. First time flying with the company so the anxiety is high with all that's said about them!

LeChienMefiant

Doge wrote: »

Okay I think I've answered my own question!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/ryanair-scramble-seats-end-airline-2675582


Thank god for that. First time flying with the company so the anxiety is high with all that's said about them!

They're grand, just print out your boarding pass, stick to the baggage rules and get to your gate on time.

b757

Doge wrote: »

Okay I think I've answered my own question!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/ryanair-scramble-seats-end-airline-2675582


Thank god for that. First time flying with the company so the anxiety is high with all that's said about them!

It shouldn't be.

Just make sure you definitely have your boarding card printed, passport ready, and show up to airport on time.

I have a tip, also if you have a chance..
Either get priority boarding, it's something I always get now. Or.... Just wait at the gate while everyone stands in line to board; once the queue is gone, get up and board last - if there's no space to put your cabin bag; just hand it to the gate agent, they'll stick it in the hold free of charge and you pick it up at the baggage claim 10 minutes after you land.

Bob24

b757 wrote: »

Or.... Just wait at the gate while everyone stands in line to board; once the queue is gone, get up and board last - if there's no space to put your cabin bag; just hand it to the gate agent, they'll stick it in the hold free of charge and you pick it up at the baggage claim 10 minutes after you land.

That’s ok as long as people have a hard suitcase with nothing fragile or which they want to keep with them during the flight. If the poster is not in that case they should either get priority boarding or queue so that they are not amongst the last ones boarding.

Bob24

One pilot (who knows she’s safe as she’s changing job) personally delivered a letter from colleagues to Ryanair: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-pilot-airs-grievance-in-letter-to-oleary-36222898.html

Part of Ryanair’s reaction is really not classy and counter productive. They dismiss it as irrelevant because it is signed by a “contractor pilot” who is leaving. What they don’t say is that most pilots are contractors, so when they use this as a way do disminish the value of the letter they are actually pouring fuel on an already pretty bad fire as they are raising their middle finger at all their contractor pilots.

737max

A contractor is a contractor who contracts to deliver a service and is free to not renew their contact; that is their labour negotiating tool.
An employee is an employee.

pilly

737max wrote: »

A contractor is a contractor who contracts to deliver a service and is free to not renew their contact; that is their labour negotiating tool.
An employee is an employee.

What's your point.

737max

If I worked in HR and a contractor wanted to negotiate terms for staff I'd be very confused. It is none of their business. They are on site to do a clearly defined job for a period of time. They are not an employee.

pilly

737max wrote: »

If I worked in HR and a contractor wanted to negotiate terms for staff I'd be very confused. It is none of their business. They are on site to do a clearly defined job for a period of time. They are not an employee.

And contracts are negotiated also. Who says it has to be anything to do with HR?

joeysoap

Nice response from Ryanair though.

LeChienMefiant

The Ryanair response is entirely predictable. This is not their first rodeo.

Bob24

737max wrote: »

If I worked in HR and a contractor wanted to negotiate terms for staff I'd be very confused. It is none of their business. They are on site to do a clearly defined job for a period of time. They are not an employee.

Collective negotiation of terms for contractors is actually exactly what Ryanair does as far as I can tell (except they do it at a base level and within a structure they control which is what pilots seem unhappy with).

So if you worked at their staff management team you wouldn’t be that confused about representatives of contractor negotiating for a group of them: it would actually be the system you organised yourself but with a request to change some parameters.

joeysoap

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

The Ryanair response is entirely predictable. This is not their first rodeo.

I was being sarcastic. I thought.

737max

You are bull****ting there. Contractors are Contractors and while a company may liase with them what they contract to do is governed by a contract. If contractors wish to be employees then they should apply to be employees. If a comany wants employees then it makes vacancies for employees.
If Contractors expect collective bargaining then they will need to stop being Contractors.

Bob24

737max wrote: »

You are bull****ting there. Contractors are Contractors and while a company may liase with them what they contract to do is governed by a contract. If contractors wish to be employees then they should apply to be employees. If a comany wants employees then it makes vacancies for employees.
If Contractors expect collective bargaining then they will need to stop being Contractors.

Ryanair itself keeps directing their contractor pilots to “ERCs” which in their own documentation to staff is referred to as, I quote, a “collection bargaining” tool (see page 16): https://investorryanair.azureedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/HR-Brochure-print1.pdf

737max

Bob24 wrote: »

Ryanair itself keeps directing their contractor pilots to “ERCs” which in their own documentation to staff is referred to as, I quote, a “collection bargaining” tool (see page 16): https://investorryanair.azureedge.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/HR-Brochure-print1.pdf

That has no legitimacy in any court of law so they remain contractors with all the benefits of flexibility to contractor and contracting party that entails.
Can you do "nuance".

Bob24

It is because I can do nuance that I mentioned it.

Saying “If I worked in HR and a contractor wanted to negotiate terms for staff I'd be very confused” is not exactly nuanced since Ryanair did put these structures in place.

Another way Ryanair is nuancing the notion of individual contractor is that they asked these local councils to collectively point out gaps between local labour law and their Irish contract for each base so that these get automatically added to contracts in these countries.

737max

Your speaking to someone working in a department where we have made a clear decision to use fewer contractors to the benefit of the deparment and those contractors who become employees. If a contractor tried to compel us to improve their terms while still enjoying all the benefits of being a contractor then their contract would not be renewed.
Contractors earn more than employees in our department and that suits management, staff and contractors.
If a contractor expects to be protected by labour law then stop providing a service and start working for an employer as an employee.

Bob24

737max wrote: »

Your speaking to someone working in a department where we have made a clear decision to use fewer contractors to the benefit of the deparment and those contractors who become employees. If a contractor tried to compel us to improve their terms while still enjoying all the benefits of being a contractor then their contract would not be renewed.
Contractors earn more than employees in our department and that suits management, staff and contractors.
If a contractor expects to be protected by labour law then stop providing a service and start working for an employer as an employee.

Sure but you are stepping aside from the discussion points and as your are concerned with nuance I am sure you understand that the situation in your department is not the same as the one at Ryanair.

It has been mentioned a few times on the thread before that comparing a Ryanair pilot to lets say an average IT contractor doesn't work for a number of reasons.

For example your point that collective bargaining doesn't apply to contractors is probably valid in your experience of what you see at work (and to be fair in most contracting situations). But it is not correct when applied to Ryanair as (as per the links I provided) the company itself is actually requesting its contracting workforce to organise in that way at a base level rather than negotiating contracts individually.

NH2013

737max wrote: »

If Contractors expect collective bargaining then they will need to stop being Contractors.

Is that not exactly Ryanair's problem though at the minute, that their pilots; the majority of whom are contractors, are deciding to "Stop being contractors", and leaving for pastures new in other airlines where they see themselves being treated better?

This in turn resulting in Ryanair's inability to properly crew flights for the next 6 months and the ensuing cancellation of 400,000 flights so far.

Should Ryanair not be trying to find out why these pilots are all leaving by listening to them and engaging with them, and working on the internal issues and areas that need to be focused on in order to retain their pilots and continue with their expansion plans.

deaddonkey15

What is the criteria for a pilot to become a direct employee of Ryanair? I would have thought a captain with 10 years at the airline like Imelda Comer wouldn't still be a contractor? Is she not exactly the kind of pilot that Ryanair need right now?

737max

NH2013 wrote: »

Is that not exactly Ryanair's problem though at the minute, that their pilots; the majority of whom are contractors, are deciding to "Stop being contractors", and leaving for pastures new in other airlines where they see themselves being treated better?

This in turn resulting in Ryanair's inability to properly crew flights for the next 6 months and the ensuing cancellation of 400,000 flights so far.

Should Ryanair not be trying to find out why these pilots are all leaving by listening to them and engaging with them, and working on the internal issues and areas that need to be focused on in order to retain their pilots and continue with their expansion plans.

This is the sword that M O'L has chosen to live and die by. He pays for only what the market will deliver to him at a price point and it is why he is offering better terms. I don't believe that he is offering actual 22% pay rises as reported in some headlines but that is the way he is doing it; letting the market decide what the going rate for a pilot should be and trying to match it. If he can't match it then he looses pilots. His choice therefore his loss.