Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

never_mind

Hi all

got caught on mainland Europe for +2 more nights than expected. Ryanair cancelled flight but I didn't have insurance. Forked out big money to stay in the city for the two additional nights. Filling out the EU216 form - I have a lot of receipts so should be OK - but are they actually good at compensating?

Thanks all

never_mind

To clarify, all flights were booked for for day 1, and day 2 was our only option. Tried calling Ryanair but no luck on getting a number.. and their online chat team were constantly busy.

L1011

You should get your expenses covered. Compensation beyond that depends on the reason for cancellation.

never_mind

never_mind wrote: »

To clarify, all flights were booked for for day 1, and day 2 was our only option. Tried calling Ryanair but no luck on getting a number.. and their online chat team were constantly busy.

You'd think an additional 2 days would be a good thing... ya think it'll take forever to get it bakc?

Locker10a

Why was it cancelled? Was it storm Ophelia ? If so I don’t think compo rules apply. But they’d still have to provide you a hotel so they may compensate your additional hotel costs, at least partially

Comhrá

Donal O'Donovan

October 20 2017 6:38 PM



http://www.independent.ie/business/pilots-at-ryanairs-biggest-base-vote-to-reject-pay-deal-36246768.html


Pilots at Ryanair’s biggest base at Stanstead in London have voted to reject a pay deal offered by the company in a bid to end the flights cancellation crisis gripping the company.

The offer, including pay increases of up to £22,000, were rejected by a margin of 60pc to 40pc, Independent.ie understands.

In a statement, Ryanair said it was “surprised” by the outcome of the secret ballot. The airline said pilots at more than 10 of its European basis have voted in favour of new pay offers.

More to follow...

Online Editors

Bob24

Comhra wrote: »

Donal O'Donovan

October 20 2017 6:38 PM



http://www.independent.ie/business/pilots-at-ryanairs-biggest-base-vote-to-reject-pay-deal-36246768.html


Pilots at Ryanair’s biggest base at Stanstead in London have voted to reject a pay deal offered by the company in a bid to end the flights cancellation crisis gripping the company.

The offer, including pay increases of up to £22,000, were rejected by a margin of 60pc to 40pc, Independent.ie understands.

In a statement, Ryanair said it was “surprised” by the outcome of the secret ballot. The airline said pilots at more than 10 of its European basis have voted in favour of new pay offers.

More to follow...

Online Editors

I'm not very clear with this. There was a rejection vote reported before which took place last Friday. Is that a new vote or the Indo is just lagging behind by a week?

Comhrá

Bob24 wrote: »

I'm not very clear with this. There was a rejection vote reported before which took place last Friday. Is that a new vote or the Indo is just lagging behind by a week?

I also thought the same, so not sure if the Indo is just repeating itself here?

keith_sixteen

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Definitely, Ryanair are way out of their depth at this stage - they are not even negotiating, they are offering something and giving an ultimatum for its acceptance. From what I've heard the pilots are up for fighting this one, many of them would like to stay in Ireland and with Ryanair but are not prepared to put up with the conditions that Ryanair are continuing to offer.

Absolutely. I happen to know Capt. Comer, and she is a top class human being. She is smart, genuine and many of her other qualities are evident in the letter.

The fact that Ryanair are able to dismiss what she has to say, and also tell the world she is heading off to Asia, says it all about them IMO. Have lost all respect for them.

737max

Ryanair is pointing out there is the world of pilots who will happily accept the offer of the new salary level.
I don't see how a HR genius would be able to play the negotiation better.
Ryanair isn't Bertie Ahern whose modus operandii was to cave in to every demand be they reasonable or unreasonable. Even if there is wiggle room you'd need to be a very cheap hoor to give it away straight away.

View Profile

Yeah but in doing so they are pushing the pilots into a corner where industrial action is becoming an ever increasing reality. A first for Ryanair staff.
And it'll happen on O'Leary's watch!

737max

View Profile wrote: »

Yeah but in doing so they are pushing the pilots into a corner where industrial action is becoming an ever increasing reality. A first for Ryanair staff.
And it'll happen on O'Leary's watch!

These pilots with years of debts behind them using Ryanair as flight school will strike with no union paying strike pay? I'm not sure about that. Their negotiating position isn't as strong as it needs to be.

AlekSmart

737max wrote: »

Ryanair is pointing out there is the world of pilots who will happily accept the offer of the new salary level.
I don't see how a HR genius would be able to play the negotiation better.
Ryanair isn't Bertie Ahern whose modus operandii was to cave in to every demand be they reasonable or unreasonable. Even if there is wiggle room you'd need to be a very cheap hoor to give it away straight away.

All very true,however the core issue now for Ryanair,is no longer "The Offer" or what,they purport to be,Unionization of their company,but rather a rapidly spreading sense of unease amongst a broad church of their "usual customers" such as myself.

I am of the opinion that in relation to the rostering issue,Micheal O'Leary was,for some reason,caught by surprise,something which was illustrated by his belated entry into the debate,only after Kenny Jacobs made the initial running.

Indeed Mr O'Learly was uncharacteristically adrift in some of his appearances,and for the first time in my experience,appeard to be poorly briefed and unable to take control in his usual effortless manner.

Ryanair absolutely need to take control of this situation,but their Senior Managerial structures appear incredibly incapable of countering,what is now a major challenge from the established order.

ted1

Mr.S wrote: »

If it was Ryanair's fault (ie mechanical, operational) and you where given short notice, then you should be fine to get the compensation. They are quite quick to payout, usually within 10 days.

Of course, there are a few limitations, you can't just stay in a 5* hotel and comp that.

10 days is great, I’m waiting since the 14th of August for Cleim with Aer Lingus fir a cancellation in. July

CoisFharraige

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ryanair absolutely need to take control of this situation,but their Senior Managerial structures appear incredibly incapable of countering,what is now a major challenge from the established order.

This is very true. For the first time ever crews have some sort of leverage, and despite the fact that the media lost the scent and moved on to 'bigger and better things' this is all still very much a massive part of the company's inside at the moment. It's very much boiling over and O'Leary is letting on that he thinks turning off the gas will bring it back under control! He simply won't change. It's not so much his 'ambition' or 'agenda' as some have alluded to that is deluding him as usual - it's simply his personality, that won't change. Unless he gets massive pressure put on him and the company starts to derail when we see how the Italian strikes go, he isn't going to give in.

Some of you have probably seen this on the webs...

Stansted says NO!!!October 20, 2017
Major action was taken today when the Stansted pilot body voted to reject the pay deal offered by Ryanair management in a 60% to 40% majority. Citing the refusal of management to enter negotiations with the pilots and the lack of guarantees for the terms offered, the largest pilot group in the Ryanair network has denied the chance for Ryanair management to ram a bad deal down the throats of the pilot body. Well done and congratulations to all of Stansted pilots who have taken the brave step to take back the terms of their own futures and in so doing has cleared away for other, more vulnerable bases to do the same! You make us proud!

So what are the next steps? Above all else, stay united and focused! We have a long way to go but look at what we have achieved in this short space of time. This is proof we are stronger together!

The ECJ ruled against Ryanair’s application of the law.
The Chief Operating Officer has lost his job.
Despite denying theres a Pilot shortage Ryanair are desperately contacting people individually on LinkedIn and other social media begging people to come back or join.
Michael O’Leary publicly and privately apologised to his staff and agreed for the first time that salaries were on the low side.
Italy has announced the start of strike action.
The Spanish cabin crew have formed a union.
The company initially made a quick offer of a few thousand euro on a “take it or leave it” basis. The arrogant, dismissive stance changed to an offer for a pilots to reach out to them to discuss issues. When pilots were not reaching out to them, they started phoning bases to arrange meetings. When pilots were not jumping at the chance to meet with Ryanair after learning there was no room for real, binding negotiations, management started phoning bases to bring offers to pilots.
Some management language is starting to shift to “what would we need to change in the offer to make you accept it?” with non-binding promises of base change transparency and other improvements to conditions.
While this is a marked shift in management’s attitude, there has been no guarantees of any binding changes to pilot contracts and without that, all of their talk means nothing, however, it is clear we are forcing change! It is clear that we can get to the negotiating tables for real change. Things are going to get more contentious now that management has fallen at their largest base! We need to stay focuses, strong, dedicated, UNITED!

Thank you Madrid! Thank you Stansted! We continue the battle!

Stevek101

Another week gone by with no 4 hour walk outs or strike action. You'll be waiting a long time for it if you believe its going to happen.

Comhrá

Stevek101 wrote: »

Another week gone by with no 4 hour walk outs or strike action. You'll be waiting a long time for it if you believe its going to happen.

So do you see the pilots meekly capitulate, accept the 'goodies', all move on and everything back to as it was before?

737max

Comhra wrote: »

So do you see the pilots meekly capitulate, accept the 'goodies', all move on and everything back to as it was before?

Next step is Ryanair not rushing to renew contracts and leaving pilots in doubt as to the future.

Stevek101

Seems like they have nothing to gain here. New recruits on higher pay than competitor airlines. When the people supposedly speaking out for you have already jumped ship you really have to wonder how sincere their intentions were all along.

L1011

737max wrote: »

Next step is Ryanair not rushing to renew contracts and leaving pilots in doubt as to the future.

Encouraging pilots to leave would be a great idea right now, of course...

737max

Encouraging militant employees to leave is always a great idea.
Aer Lingus HR called it "environmental push factors".

Bob24

737max wrote: »

Next step is Ryanair not rushing to renew contracts and leaving pilots in doubt as to the future.

If Ryanair was in a position to afford doing that, they wouldn't have had to remove 100s of flight due to a lack of pilots.

Throwing petrol at the fire is the last thing they should be doing at the moment.

(and I am sure senior management knows that, hence their slightly milder way to approach staff compared to a few weeks ago)

737max

Bob24 wrote: »

If Ryanair was in a position to afford doing that, they wouldn't have had to remove 100s of flight due to a lack of pilots.

Throwing petrol at the fire is the last thing they should be doing at the moment.

(and I am sure senior management knows that, hence their slightly milder way to approach staff compared to a few weeks ago)

a kneejerk reaction of capitulation is a short term solution which undermines the Ryanair cost-base and competitive advantage in the long term.

billy few mates

737max wrote: »

a kneejerk reaction of capitulation is a short term solution which undermines the Ryanair cost-base and competitive advantage in the long term.

So are you asking us to believe the pilots have rejected this offer because they prefer to remain on their current contracts with their current T&Cs and and we can put this whole fiasco behind us...?

Bob24

737max wrote: »

a kneejerk reaction of capitulation is a short term solution which undermines the Ryanair cost-base and competitive advantage in the long term.

Who talked about capitulation?

What you were suggesting was to threaten pilots with not renewing their contracts. Not doing that would be capitulation??

I think it the current tensed climate provoking employees who are already fairly unhappy in such way would actually undermine long term prospects of the company. It would increase the risk:
1) to cause more staff shortage and harm the company's reputation with more cancellations
2) to establish a precedent for pissed-off employees to carry out industrial action, which would have a long term effect on how the company negotiates with its staff (once the precent is set, it will happen again even for less severe reasons)

never_mind

To clarify it was Ophelia!!

L1011

never_mind wrote: »

To clarify it was Ophelia!!

You won't get any compensation over the legitimate expenses in that case.

never_mind

L1011 wrote: »

You won't get any compensation over the legitimate expenses in that case.

Even over hotel? I stayed in 2 star hotel over 2 nights.

L1011

never_mind wrote: »

Even over hotel? I stayed in 2 star hotel over 2 nights.

Hotel costs are expenses, not compensation.

never_mind

L1011 wrote: »

Hotel costs are expenses, not compensation.

So I'll get paid expenses? That's what I mean by compensation - sorry this is my lack of legal understanding