Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

selassie

http://www.thejournal.ie/ryanair-pilot-action-3744386-Dec2017/

IRISH RYANAIR PILOTS have voted in favour of industrial action.

A ballot of the pilots was carried out today by the Irish Air Line Pilots Association (IALPA).

Pilots have demanded improved pay and conditions from the airline and the right to have union representation for collective bargaining across all of Europe.

Pilots at a number of bases – including Dublin, London Stansted and Madrid – have rejected proposals from management around pay and conditions.

RTÉ news reported that Ryanair has now ordered its Dublin based staff for an emergency meeting. It was also reported that 95% of the balloted pilots were in favour of taking the industrial action.

LiamaDelta

Dublin pilots have voted for industrial action now also.

View Profile

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/1211/926577-ryanair-pilots/

And so it starts.

Dublin Ryanair pilots ballot overwhelmingly for industrial action in order to improve their terms and conditions.

LeChienMefiant

79 pilots out of how many total? 84 ballot papers issued.

737max

As I don't have any Ryanair flights booked until end of April I'm going to enjoy seeing how this plays out and I'll enjoy seeing Impact loosing interest when they work out that the strike pay goes nowhere towards placating the Pilots who they have duped in to action against their employer.

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LeChienMefiant wrote:

79 pilots out of how many total?

Maybe of around 120 who are permanent Dublin based, employees, and not management.

Bob24

Did they give a date?

It’s spreading which is a bad sign for Ryanair but for now it is just words.

Portuguese pilots said they will strike on the 15th. If they act on their promise, it will open the pandora box and then MOL will be in serious trouble.

Edit: I see the Irish one is for the 15th as well. We shall see then.

LeChienMefiant

View Profile wrote: »

Maybe of around 120 who are permanent Dublin based, employees, and not management.

How many contractor pilots operate out of Dublin?

Mebuntu

The headline should be "Ryanair pilots who are in IALPA" vote for industrial action.

I cannot ever see MOL dealing with any "alpa" so, unless there is a change at the top, it will be a straight head-to-head.

Extraordinary that other airlines' unions are poking their noses into Ryanair's affairs. Bit like they did years ago when their attempt to bring out a handful of FR baggage handlers resulted in the whole airport being closed for a weekend. Best part of that was MOL telling BA (the man, not the airline) to FO

Stevek101

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

How many contractor pilots operate out of Dublin?

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

79 pilots out of how many total? 84 ballot papers issued.

Over 300 in total including the 120 of whom 79 voted in favour of undefined action. Doubt this will get very far. Not much money in the pot to pay striking staff and Qatar Airways have plenty of A320's lying idle.

LiamaDelta

Stevek101 wrote:

Over 300 in total including the 120 of whom 79 voted in favour of undefined action. Doubt this will get very far. Not much money in the pot to pay striking staff and Qatar Airways have plenty of A320's lying idle.

I'm pretty sure most pilots wouldn't need to depend on money from a pot for a short stoppage. I'd imagine they'd be happy to forego some pay in the interest of the bigger gain overall. Otherwise they wouldn't have voted to take action.

737max

LiamaDelta wrote: »

I'm pretty sure most pilots wouldn't need to depend on money from a pot for a short stoppage. I'd imagine they'd be happy to forego some pay in the interest of the bigger gain overall. Otherwise they wouldn't have voted to take action.

based on the response from Ryanair I think they stand to loose a five figure sum if they engage in industrial action.

billie1b

Stevek101 wrote: »

Over 300 in total including the 120 of whom 79 voted in favour of undefined action. Doubt this will get very far. Not much money in the pot to pay striking staff and Qatar Airways have plenty of A320's lying idle.

240 in Dublin

billy few mates

Good luck to them I say, you can’t blame anyone for wanting to improve their pay and conditions, they work for a very successful company, they’ve contributed to that success, why shouldn’t they ask for a bigger piece of the pie, there’s more than enough to go around?
Has anyone actually quantified how much their demands would actually cost the company?

JCX BXC

billy few mates wrote: »

Has anyone actually quantified how much their demands would actually cost the company?

Firstly, what are they actually demanding?

IngazZagni

A huge amount of pilots based in Dublin with Ryanair would be agency workers on zero hour or low hour contracts and as such not eligible to take part in a ballot for industrial action under existing Irish labour law. This is one of the systems that helps Ryanair from unions becoming effective. It's interesting to hear Ryanair say how only a minority of Ryanairs Irish pilots voted because they are suggesting with this that the agency workers are de facto Ryanair employees. This is exactly what they are trying to argue against in other juristictions and in legal cases.

I'm under the impression that a large majority of those that voted are captains which of course would cause far more impact than if if it was 50/50 captain/FO.

Pay aside, Ryanair staff have some of the worst terms and conditions in the industry and I guess this is where the majority of their issues are. Good luck to the Ryanair pilots!

Mebuntu

Firstly, what are they actually demanding?

It's all about power. Union power. For way too long the airline unions had a vice-like grip. Ireland's own Aer Lingus is a typical example whereby management virtually couldn't sneeze without union approval. Changes necessary in the ever-changing aviation industry were either out of the question or took years to be agreed. Fortunes of money were lost. In relation to pay issues in EI the pilots got in first for pay-rises and once they had succeeded in holding the company to ransom it was the ground handlers turn and so on ad infinitum.

Ryanair won the right to not deal with unions and the latter have been simmering with rage ever since waiting and hoping for an opportunity to get back. It has taken a long time but they saw the rostering fiasco, together with the worldwide shortage of pilots, as that opportunity and have set about trying to get back in to where they want to be by infiltrating and causing unrest wherever they can.

Ryanair have, in effect, shot themselves in the foot and, in addition, have some really petty staff rules that would not cost a lot to change.

Ultimately, though, FR pilots are not on the breadline, anything but and could even afford to turn down massive salary increases.

As the unions see it, best Ryanair and they can best anyone.

Should Ryanair lose this one it will be a backwards step with consequences so I see them fighting it tooth and nail even if it costs them financially.

737max

https://www.vcockpit.de/fileadmin/dokumente/presse/2017/2017_12_12_Ryanair_PK_FINAL.pdf

Cockpit union getting in on the act although I can't see who they are actually representing as Ryanair have limited exposure to the Germany market.

It appears that this is a concerted action by the Union movement outside of Ryanair to undermine Ryanair even though the Union movement has little representation within the ranks of Ryanair pilots.

Cockpit union have caused misery for German passengers over the last number of years.

I don't think a Ryanair Pilot should automatically assume that someone else's Union is actually interested in their welfare.

Ryanair, having seen how Cockpit have pulled strings at Lufthansa for little more than sh!ts and giggles would not willingly let them establish a presence in the company.

Blut2

IngazZagni wrote: »

I'm under the impression that a large majority of those that voted are captains which of course would cause far more impact than if if it was 50/50 captain/FO.

The Irish edition of the Times (I don't think its online so no link sorry) reported exactly that yesterday - that almost all of those on permanent employment contracts that voted to strike in Dublin are in fact captains. Which means it'll be a lot harder for Ryanair to work around them striking than it would be if it was mostly FOs.

LiamaDelta

Mebuntu wrote: »

Ryanair won the right to not deal with unions and the latter have been simmering with rage ever since waiting and hoping for an opportunity to get back. It has taken a long time but they saw the rostering fiasco, together with the worldwide shortage of pilots, as that opportunity and have set about trying to get back in to where they want to be by infiltrating and causing unrest wherever they can.

Ryanair have, in effect, shot themselves in the foot and, in addition, have some really petty staff rules that would not cost a lot to change.

Ultimately, though, FR pilots are not on the breadline, anything but and could even afford to turn down massive salary increases.

As the unions see it, best Ryanair and they can best anyone.

Should Ryanair lose this one it will be a backwards step with consequences so I see them fighting it tooth and nail even if it costs them financially.

There is also the considerable unrest amongst pilots - that is real and present. The unions are not operating in a vacuum, they are tapping into this to further their own agenda but the pilots want something too and they have been backed into a corner to such an extent that they feel that Union representation is the only way they can achieve what they want.

L1011

Strike on the 20th apparently

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irishbased-ryanair-pilots-to-strike-just-five-days-before-christmas-36401412.html

Bob24

L1011 wrote: »

Strike on the 20th apparently

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irishbased-ryanair-pilots-to-strike-just-five-days-before-christmas-36401412.html

Not as bad as doing it on the 22nd, but still if they actually go ahead a strike just a few days before Christmas is show have a visible effect and catch media headlines.

Mebuntu

L1011 wrote: »

Strike on the 20th apparently

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irishbased-ryanair-pilots-to-strike-just-five-days-before-christmas-36401412.html

An Aer Lingus pilot, Cullen, issuing a threat to MOL? - I couldn't imagine a more "red rag to a bull" situation than that, LOL.

737max

Ryanair don't care about negative media coverage.

They only care about money and they won't have to pay out EU261 compensation if flights are cancelled due to strikes according to this;
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/ive-had-a-flight-delay-due-to-a-strike-can-i-get-compensation

The cabin crew just won't be called for duty. They have very few fixed costs.

actually if this disqualifies the Pilots from certain benefits then it could end up saving Ryanair money.

Sysmod

I haven't had to claim compensation before. May I ask for tips from those who have done so?

How do you avoid being simply ignored? The staff at the desk say they're awaiting news, they go home, you're left standing at Dublin Airport at midnight.

What is the procedure for getting another flight to where we want to go, as we've booked hotels etc?

737max

Will there be a picket line which others have to cross? I wouldn't want to be the captain there of a cancelled flight with 189 x however many flights full of angry passengers turning up in Dublin Airport with nowhere to go.

LiamaDelta

737max wrote:

They only care about money and they won't have to pay out EU261 compensation if flights are cancelled due to strikes according to this;

737max wrote:

Ryanair don't care about negative media coverage.

Negative media coverage and uncertainty will affect bookings (myself and plenty of people I know booked with other airlines recently when there was uncertainty around the Ryanair situation) which in turn will have a financial impact.
Also the impact of Christmas cancellations will be huge in terms of damage to the brand. This late in the season though people don't have much alternative though to change bookings.

Bob24

737max wrote: »

Ryanair don't care about negative media coverage.

They only care about money

More media coverage about cancelled flight - just two months after the previous wave and on time to cause trouble for customer going home for Christmas a - would surely cost them money in terms of lost future bookings.

737max

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Negative media coverage and uncertainty will affect bookings (myself and plenty of people I know booked with other airlines recently when there was uncertainty around the Ryanair situation) which in turn will have a financial impact.
Also the impact of Christmas cancellations will be huge in terms of damage to the brand. This late in the season though people don't have much alternative though to change bookings.

Well I booked my xmas flights back in May. Xmas flights aren't generally booked on the spur of the moment so I don't see it having any effect on their forward bookings.
A time was chosen by the Agitators to inconvenience the travelling public most. Ryanair even if they wanted to pay for wet leases on those days would find it hard to source planes.

Mebuntu

Also the impact of Christmas cancellations will be huge in terms of damage to the brand. This late in the season though people don't have much alternative though to change bookings.

I'm not so sure the brand will be damaged. The impact of 79 well-to-do and well paid (some would claim overpaid) men raining on thousands of the poor people's Christmas would likely have the opposite effect.