Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

devnull

Bazzy wrote: »

The pilots want engagement with a union which is what they are getting.

If they dont call the strike off it'll turn the public against them very quickly

The question is will the unions accept the terms that MOL has offered or will they reject them because their real intention is not to help the Ryanair pilots but to help their members in legacy airlines?

I would suggest if the unions don't accept the terms then the Ryanair staff should leave the unions and form their own union, based on the fact that it would be clear that there is an ulterior motive at play.

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

The question is will the unions accept the terms that MOL has offered or will they reject them because their real intention is not to help the Ryanair pilots but to help their members in legacy airlines?

I would suggest if the unions don't accept the terms then the Ryanair staff should leave the unions and form their own union, based on the fact that it would be clear that there is an ulterior motive at play.

At the end of the day you can’t speak for the pilots and only them know what the want to compromise on. For exemple one of their main request which was to have a company wide representative body seems to be rejected in the press release. Only them can decide if they think it is an issue.

Also the press release gives no detail on how Ryanair envisions how company/union relashionship should word. Maybe they are genuinely trying to engage, or maybe it is just a diversion to try and avoid what was looking like a large scale pre-Christmas strike. Again thanks Bly the pilots will know that once more details than what is in the press release transpire to them.

So I wouldn’t assume this anoncement means strikes are off the table. Pilots will probably want to know more before they make a decision.

View Profile

All Ryanair have said is "they invite unions to talks, to recognise them."

Yes, this is a step in the right direction but in reality they haven't agreed to deal with unions.
Recognition isn't the same as willingness to negotiate with them openly.

Forgive my scepticism but it is Ryanair we are talking about after all.

Bob24

View Profile wrote: »

Forgive my scepticism but it is Ryanair we are talking about after all.

Exactly ... it’s not like employer/employee relashionships have been great before, so pilots will most likely show a similar dose of skepticism.

MoeJay

Given the so-called “terms and conditions” attached to this offer, I wonder do they actually know how unions are structured...it would be naive to think that all of a sudden it is rosy in the garden!

Lapmo_Dancer

Only dealing with company employees is standard.

There will be a number of Ryanair representatives elected by the pilot body to negotiate with management.

That’s how it works with IALPA in Stobart and Cityjet, BALPA in easyJet and Virgin Atlantic etc, ALPA in Delta, United, JetBlue etc

trellheim

Is there a danger of the contract pilots coming to an end then ?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Comhrá

Ryanair share price down sharply:

Previous closing price: 1640
2.30pm today: 1514 - 125

L1011

trellheim wrote: »

Is there a danger of the contract pilots coming to an end then ?

Yes, and not a moment too soon. This kind of spurious self employment robs the state and the employee. Endemic in IT also where there has been a Revenue crackdown but eventually it'll have to be banned to get rid of it

devnull

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

Only dealing with company employees is standard.

Indeed - as I stated previously, when someone who works for Company A and is involved at the top of the union in Company A, then starts to try and organise members in Company B who are a rival to Company A there is a conflict of interest that can be detrimental to the interest of employees of Company B.

I've worked in companies where in a similar situation employees of Company A have used their influence of company B in order to deliberately create unnecessary issues within Company B to benefit their employer (Company A), so Ryanair should refuse to support any union unless only Ryanair staff are involved with negotiations with them.

The Union should have no problem with this, providing that they have the pilots interests in mind. If they have a problem with this and try and convince Ryanair that they should fight to have rival staff involved in such discussions, Ryanair staff should think as to why this might be and form their own union which would be far more effective.

Idbatterim

Hoboo wrote: »

Recognising unions is one thing, terms and parameters for negotiation are a completely different ball game. Great news for whatever union gets the role €€€€€€€€

would oleary stipulate he wont deal with any of the parasitic sc*m unions that make up our current transport unions?

A319er

Let's all be wary of who we are dealing with here, Ducksie doesn't do unions or
Apologies or treating the truth as important,

No way has FR accepted dealing with unions on union terms, fair enough
But let's understand the press release , unions yes , but with as yet unspecified list of caveats , Ducksie was always a slow learner, and a stranger or at least an infrequent bedfellow with the truth.

Mind you he treats horses well.

devnull

It appears that the unions want a meeting pretty much straight away and Ryanair cannot do that so the strike may still go ahead as Ryanair say they cannot meet the unions until Wednesday

The Unions are saying that Ryanair are playing chicken, but realistically if they held a meeting today it will just be employees of other airlines who go into the talks since they surely have not had time to seek the opinions of the staff they claim to be looking out for?

If the IALPA are really serious about these matters and helping out the staff rather than looking after their own agenda, they should be using the current time to form a representative committee of only Ryanair staff to attend such meetings early next week rather than going in without having a proper consultation with Ryanair staff.

What I read on RTE just re-enforces my point that these unions are not acting with the best interests of the Ryanair staff at heart. Stating they will go into said meetings with Ryanair without properly canvassing the people they claim to represent suggests the agenda of the IALPA is the most important thing here rather than the staff of Ryanair.

A319er

Quite correctly and logically the unions do not believe Ducksie

Anyone who understands him also knows four legs good two legs and a staff member bad !

Ducksie didn't and hasn't and never will be anything other than a stranger to the truth

Best of luck to FR staff , you are dealing with Ducksie....

L1011

Can we drop the nickname, it detracts from the validity of any points being made really.

Mebuntu

It appears that the unions want a meeting pretty much straight away and Ryanair cannot do that so the strike may still go ahead as Ryanair say they cannot meet the unions until Wednesday

It is no more than you'd expect from any union in the transport industry. The customers always come last.

MoeJay

The suggestion that nobody whatsoever is available to meet at any time at all before Wednesday is risible.

They were quick enough out of the blocks this morning. Either you’re serious about it or you’re not.

This was always high stakes and nobody should be fooled.

Jamie2k9

Playing the long game has clearly failed, time to get control of the situation before a strike takes place because if it does it will more likely be the first of many more something they need to avoid.

devnull

MoeJay wrote: »

The suggestion that nobody whatsoever is available to meet at any time at all before Wednesday is risible.

They were quick enough out of the blocks this morning. Either you’re serious about it or you’re not.

Unfortunately from everything I have seen today suggests that the IALPA are not serious about helping the staff within Ryanair and this is very much about the union starting to flex their muscles to help their members in other airlines and is not about the staff of Ryanair who I fear may well end up being played.

The fact that the IALPA were quite happy to go into talks without even stopping to canvass their members and the staff in Ryanair following today's developments is most odd and not the kind of actions I would expect from a party that is only interested in assisting their members that are part of Ryanair.

The statement that was issued by Ryanair today is not something minor, it is something that is major and on the back of that there should be a series of discussions between the IALPA and the staff it claims to be representing. The fact that the IALPA and it's members with connection to a rival airline are wanting to rush and bounce Ryanair into a meeting without discussing it with the staff they represent is most concerning and suggests a hidden agenda.

If I was in a union I would not tolerate a group representing me or my colleagues who don't work for my company going into such meeting without consulting with us first as it would essentially mean the membership is being bypassed to meet the agenda of the people at the top of the union rather than that of the members.

billy few mates

gifted wrote: »

JCX BXC wrote: »

In a move I never thought I'd see, Ryanair agree to recognise unions!

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-agrees-to-recognise-pilot-unions-to-avoid-widespread-customer-disruptions-over-christmas-period/

And that's the end of cheap flights....

Why should it be..?
It wouldn't cost that much to give them what they want if it gives the company the certainty they need and reassurance to the markets and travelling public that they have full industrial harmony with the pilot group.
It's not like they're going to pay for it themselves, I reckon an additional €1 per ticket will more than cover it...

Bazzy

The COO was just on The last Word with Matt Cooper

He was talking about a culture change and the way things are going to be.

He seemed very genuine to me he said he had sent in writing to the union they would engage.

The union should also need time to talk to its ryanair members about what they want and should be happy to wait till Wednesday

They put Ryanair over the barrel they called the meeting the day they we're going to strike tit for tat in my eyes.

I'm not familiar with the union but it makes sense to only deal with ryanair pilots etc or it wont be long until O Leary is out with a tin of green paint and a shamrock stencil and the fares go up!!

devnull

Bazzy wrote: »

The union should also need time to talk to its ryanair members about what they want and should be happy to wait till Wednesday.

The fact they would happily go into the meeting straight away before they even had chance to do so for me is a clear sign that the interests of the staff members are not their number one priority here.

Union power and politics across the industry as a whole in Ireland appear to be the goal of the IALPA, something that Irish Steve pointed out a few pages ago may well end up to be the case.

Ryanair staff should immediately consider starting up their own union and if it is to be under the IALPA umbrella, it is as a stand-alone unit operated fully by Ryanair staff without the interference of staff from other airlines.

I'm not familiar with the union but it makes sense to only deal with ryanair pilots etc or it wont be long until O Leary is out with a tin of green paint and a shamrock stencil and the fares go up!!

Considering what I've seen today I doubt the IALPA will be agreeable to that.

NH2013

Would it not be reasonable to assume that IALPA, and all the other local ALPAs across Europe have already canvassed the Ryanair employees they represent in the meetings they've been holding for past few months, and are quite aware of the grievances of the employees and what they want negociated out with management, such as union representation, a reasonable basing agreement, holiday and sick pay, permanent contracts, benchmarked pay scales, collective bargaining across the company etc.

It would be very poor representation of their members if they called off their planned actions just because Ryanair have invited them to a meeting, that's the very first step and the bare minimum Ryanair needed to do, at a minimum the unions need to come up with a preliminary agreement or get a reasonable feeling of progress being made in order to call off the planned action.

I think these conspiracy theories that the Unions are in it for themselves seem a little far fetched, when yet has IALPA called a strike at all the airlines the represent (Aer Lingus, Stobart and CityJet) similtaneously? Even a few years back when Stobart pilots, who were operating the Aer Lingus Regional franchise, went on strike over pay, Aer Lingus mainline going on strike never came into the equation, so this idea that the unions are just out to shut down Irish Aviation at their whim seems unfounded. While IALPA is mainly run by Aer Lingus pilots at the minute, the Stobart branch is run by Stobart pilots, and the CityJet branch run by CityJet pilots, and no doubt once Ryanair gives reasonable assurances to their pilots that they wont take punitive action against them for joining/organising a union the they'll likely start heading up the Ryanair devision.

devnull

NH2013 wrote: »

It would be very poor representation of their members if they called off their planned actions just because Ryanair have invited them to a meeting, that's the very first step and the bare minimum Ryanair needed to do, at a minimum the unions need to come up with a preliminary agreement or get a reasonable feeling of progress being made in order to call off the planned action.

It's a very poor representation of a trade union when they send a letter asking for certain demands to be met or there will be a strike and when the airline meets their demands they are saying that the strike would still go ahead.

Sounds like a union who were desperate to cause a strike and were surprised that Ryanair offered them what they wanted and now because of that they have to change tack from what they originally said which would indicate to me they had more interest in organising a strike than fighting for the things they outlined.

In the two employers I have worked for who have had similar issues, none of them would trust a Trade Union that is run by staff of our competitors, let alone one that has now shown it will happily send letters stating that it will strike unless it's demands are met and when those demands are met, strike anyway. This is the kind of stuff that gives transport unions in Ireland a bad name.

A319er

Just a ruse for media consumption !

Come on folks smell the coffee , ?

Stevek101

A319er wrote: »

Just a ruse for media consumption !

Come on folks smell the coffee , ?

The only union not accepting the offer is IALPA. Best of luck to the small few that have not accepted it. Trouble makers will be rooted out.

Mebuntu

Having just watched the RTE News it's clear that Ryanair decided to call the union's bluff by this sudden about turn and the union's posturing proves beyond doubt that they have a bigger agenda than they pretend.

If the strike goes ahead now it is 100% the union's fault.

The only hope is that the Ryanair pilots themselves will do something about it before it's too late as, otherwise, their credibility is in tatters.

MoeJay

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately from everything I have seen today suggests that the IALPA are not serious about helping the staff within Ryanair and this is very much about the union starting to flex their muscles to help their members in other airlines and is not about the staff of Ryanair who I fear may well end up being played.

The fact that the IALPA were quite happy to go into talks without even stopping to canvass their members and the staff in Ryanair following today's developments is most odd and not the kind of actions I would expect from a party that is only interested in assisting their members that are part of Ryanair.

The statement that was issued by Ryanair today is not something minor, it is something that is major and on the back of that there should be a series of discussions between the IALPA and the staff it claims to be representing. The fact that the IALPA and it's members with connection to a rival airline are wanting to rush and bounce Ryanair into a meeting without discussing it with the staff they represent is most concerning and suggests a hidden agenda.

If I was in a union I would not tolerate a group representing me or my colleagues who don't work for my company going into such meeting without consulting with us first as it would essentially mean the membership is being bypassed to meet the agenda of the people at the top of the union rather than that of the members.

How are you so certain that the Ryanair pilots have not been canvassed?

Do you honestly believe that Ryanair have no time available before Wednesday to meet at all?

I understand senior members of Ryanair management have spent quite some time on air today, why didn’t they use that time to meet the representatives?

devnull

MoeJay wrote: »

How are you so certain that the Ryanair pilots have not been canvassed?

You reckon they can canvass approx 100 staff, a lot of which who may be working and away from union business and not in a place where they can access external communications, within a few hours of Ryanair making a public statement?

In every unionised business I have been involved with, either on the side of the company or on the side of the staff, it's always took at least a few days when the representatives are working in the same company as the members unless they could call a meeting of all staff at once, which is impossible in an industry like an airline with various shift patterns.

The only time I have seen it go quicker is when the people who are negotiating are not working for the company, since they have their own agenda that does not depend on the members say or they think therefore they tell the members that they already know what they want so canvassing isn't necessary.

What the members want from their union should be the primary focus of any union leadership that is serious about helping their members. There should be consultations and feedback exercises every step of the way, this is even more important when such union leadership doesn't even work for the company they are enter the talks with.

I understand senior members of Ryanair management have spent quite some time on air today, why didn’t they use that time to meet the representatives?

The fact is the union claimed that they would call the strike off if Ryanair agreed to union representation and the union have appeared to have now decided that they are going to move the goalposts because they'd much rather have a strike than operate in good faith and stick to what they said?

The simple fact is if they still strike they are sticking two fingers up to the public and I'm sure Ryanair will not hesitate to point out this kind of charade.