Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

Fairly poor on-time performance lately, that's hardly related thigh?

It will have burnt up more crew hours, so its a cause of some of the problems rather than an affect of them.

JCX BXC

L1011 wrote: »

It will have burnt up more crew hours, so its a cause of some of the problems rather than an affect of them.

Understandable, however I notice issues over the past 2 days too!

L1011

JCX BXC wrote: »

Understandable, however I notice issues over the past 2 days too!

Punctuality is not going to improve greatly unless they
1: Completely roll back on the seating changes, as the swapping is delaying pushback
2: Extend turn times at congested airports significantly.

2 would't help the hours problem at all though.

Irish Steve

JCX BXC wrote: »

Fairly poor on-time performance lately, that's hardly related thigh?

It could be. If an aircraft is running late, and there's a spare airframe at the base, one option is to call in a crew that's on standby, use the spare airframe, and then not use the late running aircraft.

The problem then can be that a crew that were rostered to operate 8 hours has ended up operating 10 hours because of delays, and that could push them over one of the many limits that then restrict them, even if they didn't operate a sector that they were planned to operate.

That then results in another crew that wasn't rostered to fly being called in to fill the gap, and the problem has suddenly got worse, as yet another crew has now used time that they were not originally expected to use, and so the problem snowballs.

It's not just about actual flying hours, there are other restrictions on duty times, and rest periods and all sorts of other issues, all of which make crew planning a nightmare if there are then problems that genuinely are outside the control of the airline, like airport or ATC delays, or ground handling delays, which can be things like passengers missing in the bar that have hold checked luggage, which has to be removed before the flight can leave without the missing passengers, or even things like delayed refuelling. All of these can add to the time the crews are "working" even if the actual time in the air is not changed.

If you've a good reserve of flight crew, it can be managed, but if (as is being strongly implied by people outside of the "official" sources) Ryanair have been haemorrhaging crew in recent months, what was a manageable problem can very quickly become a scheduling nightmare, and it seems that this is the real issue.

The problems will reduce a bit once the winter schedule kicks in at the end of October, but clearly, they can't operate the schedule that was planned until then with the number of crew that have time available, so something has had to give.

That said, they are still in trouble, because if they are short of crews with time available, that issue will have to be addressed in order to be able to operate next summer's schedule, and the only way to address it is to make more people available to operate the aircraft, and realistically, while improving the terms and conditions for the people who have not jumped ship may prevent even more leaving, they will have to find a way to get a lot more people on board very urgently, as there's still a lot of new airframes arriving that will need crews.

I wish I was 20 years younger! Such is life.

exaisle

exaisle wrote: »

My guess is that the cancelled flights have nothing to do with whatever Ryanair said.....

..and then we discover that Ryanair has lost 140 pilots to Norwegian Air...

Good enough for them...

exaisle

L1011 wrote: »

Punctuality is not going to improve greatly unless they
1: Completely roll back on the seating changes, as the swapping is delaying pushback
2: Extend turn times at congested airports significantly.

2 would't help the hours problem at all though.

...and that's even after you inflate flight times to ensure higher levels of punctuality... 70 minutes to Birmingham? Ah, come on lads...

whisky_galore

TheRiverman wrote: »

I think it is very bad that no spokesperson for Ryanair has been on TV and Radio apologising for this cockup.If it was another airline,the DAA,the Government etc that were at fault for something Micheal O'Leary would be on his very high horse.

Hell would freeze over before MOL apologises to the public for anything.

marvin80

"So far in 2017 Ryanair has lost 140 pilots to Norwegian Air, as passengers continue to be affected by the budget airline's plans to scrap up to 50 flights a day until the end of October.
As the airline battles to fill positions, it is understood that Ryanair has commenced offering pilots a €10,000 "signing-on bonus" the Irish Independent reports."

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-loses-140-pilots-to-norwegian-air-as-travel-chaos-continues-36141910.html

mikeysmith

I'm quietly enjoying this ,minus the passenger disruption

Masala

It must be hitting Mickos share price hard......

Might suit him.. as he can buy them back cheaper. Of courses... it also means that his own % gets hit and hopefully he will lose a few million off his own net worth! It is always about the SHare Price with Micko.....

ahbell

Had a flight cancelled on Saturday, trying to fill in the EU261 form and it is completely unwilling to accept my flight number. Live chat has been turned off every time I've tried contacting them... Losing the will to live with this!

LXFlyer

exaisle wrote: »

...and that's even after you inflate flight times to ensure higher levels of punctuality... 70 minutes to Birmingham? Ah, come on lads...

You do realise that the times quoted in the timetable and on the website are block times and not "flight" times?

In other words they reflect the time from when the aircraft starts to push back and the time they arrive on stand at the arrival airport and the doors open.

If the reality of the situation at Dublin airport is that aircraft are having to wait longer to take off, then extending the overall journey time is the only option airlines have. Otherwise every single flight throughout the day will get later and later.

scudzilla

Seems the Dublin - Bristol flight departing at 19:40 has been cancelled today and wednesday, gonna book that for a tuesday in 2 wks, worth a punt

Living Off The Splash

ahbell wrote: »

Had a flight cancelled on Saturday, trying to fill in the EU261 form and it is completely unwilling to accept my flight number. Live chat has been turned off every time I've tried contacting them... Losing the will to live with this!

This is where they should be hit hard in the pocket by the regulators.

Living Off The Splash

scudzilla wrote: »

Seems the Dublin - Bristol flight departing at 19:40 has been cancelled today and wednesday, gonna book that for a tuesday in 2 wks, worth a punt

It could happen? There might be a little earner in the compo. If not, have a nice weekend away?

Tabnabs

Masala wrote: »

It must be hitting Mickos share price hard......

Might suit him.. as he can buy them back cheaper. Of courses... it also means that his own % gets hit and hopefully he will lose a few million off his own net worth! It is always about the SHare Price with Micko.....

They have already recovered the losses from the opening slump.

Looks steady enough.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary/IE00BYTBXV33IEEURSSMU.html

nc6000

Locker10a wrote: »

Ryanair don't care, they will always put money first!l, because they know that by Xmas this will be forgotten and people will be back booking their flights in the millions. People are fickle, and would put up with almost anything imaginable as long as it appears they are saving money.
More fool us.

I'm not so sure about that. I fly with Ryanair a good bit and would have previously thought that a lot of the bad press they get is maybe unwarranted but this one takes the biscuit.

Over the weekend I was going to book a flight with them for a date in October but thought it was too risky so went with Aer Lingus instead. Then yesterday I see that flights on the route (Dublin-Santander) I was looking at were among the cancelled flights. They only operate that route on Sunday and Wednesday so any cancellation and you're seriously inconvenienced.

I'm already looking at flying with Aer Lingus for holidays next summer whereas we would have previously always flown with Ryanair. They both fly into the same airport and Ryanair were usually cheaper but I think I'd prefer to spend an extra few quid and fly with someone else.

1123heavy

Irish Steve wrote: »

The problem then can be that a crew that were rostered to operate 8 hours has ended up operating 10 hours because of delays, and that could push them over one of the many limits that then restrict them, even if they didn't operate a sector that they were planned to operate.

Not sure I understand your point, crew's hours are from blocks off to blocks on, whether there was a 25 minute or 2 hour gap in between doors opening on arrival and closing again for departure then that doesn't get counted in the crew's hours. The only way a crew will end up doing 10 hours instead of 8 is if those 2 hours extra are sitting on a taxiway at the RWY hold point or delayed actually whilst in the sky.

1123heavy

On another note. I really think other airlines are missing out on an excellent opportunity. Imagine if Aer Lingus, BA, easyJet or whoever else suddenly offered pax who could produce a Ryanair ticket and prove their flight was cancelled received some discount if they flew with them instead.

The brand loyalty that will encourage must be immense and would be a great boost to airlines who haemorrhaged passengers to Ryanair over the years. Ryanair would feel sick.

Subzero3

Can Someone clarify RE compensation. If Ryanair give sufficient notice or flight within 2 hours +/- of the original they don't have to pay.

Since pilots are leaving Ryanair can't tell what needs to be cancelled as they won't know how many pilots they will lose.

For consumers who had flights purchased that got cancelled, without sufficient notice or alternative flight arranged, is compensation an open n shut case.

Sunny Dayz

Ryanair have published listings of flights cancelled up to and including Wednesday.
https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/help-centre/travel-updates/flight-cancellations7
Still waiting here to find out if my parents flights to and from Scotland next weekend will be cancelled. One of my friends was lucky - he went on a short break to Spain and the return flight to Dublin for Sat and Mon were both cancelled but luckily not the Sun flight which was the one he had booked. He said that they couldn't relax and enjoy the mini break as they were worried about the flight being cancelled and not getting back in time for work this morning.

737max

Tabnabs wrote: »

They have already recovered the losses from the opening slump.

Looks steady enough.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-markets/stocks/summary/company-summary/IE00BYTBXV33IEEURSSMU.html

This is mad. Only 2 to 3% down...and there was me thinking about calling on a line of credit to snap up some cheap Ryanair shares.

Tenger

737max wrote: »

This is mad. Only 2 to 3% down...and there was me thinking about calling on a line of credit to snap up some cheap Ryanair shares.

I would guess that serious investors recognise that this is a short term speed bump caused by an extremely lean manpower setup, and that the operation will be back to normal soon enough.

hawkelady

Hi, I am flying to Amsterdam on Friday week with Ryanair for the weekend to see the rolling stones.. I haven't received a cancellation email yet but it could happen.. I'm fuming as if I miss this concert Ill definitely get no satisfaction!,sorry..

If its cancelled can I claim for the cost of the concert tickets which were fairly expensive btw, and hotel??
I presume its a good time to take out travel insurance now ??

any help will be greatly received

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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ahbell

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Flight was due to be on Saturday 16/9

For anyone else where the form won't accept the flight number... I spoke with a Ryanair agent who has advised using https://contactform.ryanair.com/ and then select 'Complaint' then 'Other'.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

J.pilkington

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-have-really-messed-up-here-full-list-of-cancelled-flights-released-36141910.html

Top class journalism once again from the national rag.

40 new pilots in 2017 and 80 total(admin / finance / ops / hr etc) existing staff in Norwegian obviously equals 140 pilots poached from Ryanair.

mikeysmith

The compensation should really be independent of Ryanair and more simplified payout

The airlines should be paying into a pot to cover it

turkeyboy1990

Can someone help me please, its my first time flying with ryanair next friday from dublin to Edinburgh and back monday morning.
I have hotel booked which cost me a hefty amount and at this stage i wouldn't get a cent back if i cancelled.

If my flight was to be cancelled would i get my money back for the hotel and flight too? I have no travel insurance or anything also it would be too late to insure...

737max

mikeysmith wrote: »

The compensation should really be independent of Ryanair and more simplified payout

The airlines should be paying into a pot to cover it

Setanta Insurance ran fast and loose. Do you think it was fair that the rest of the Insurance Industry picked up the tab.
That's what you are proposing for Aviation compensation.

mikeysmith

737max wrote: »

Setanta Insurance ran fast and loose. Do you think it was fair that the rest of the Insurance Industry picked up the tab.
That's what you are proposing for Aviation compensation.

It's a problem with the aviation industry regulation that they can play fast and loose

Zascar

I'm getting married next week and many of my guests are flying Ryanair. It's in Faro. Does anyone now how I can find out if any of the flights will be affected? Thanks

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Brennus335

J.pilkington wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-have-really-messed-up-here-full-list-of-cancelled-flights-released-36141910.html

Top class journalism once again from the national rag.

40 new pilots in 2017 and 80 total(admin / finance / ops / hr etc) existing staff in Norwegian obviously equals 140 pilots poached from Ryanair.

No, Norwegian specifically stated in a press release a couple of weeks ago that 140 Ryanair pilots had joined them this year.
This was in response to MoL' s claim that Norwegian "wouldn't survive the winter"

Tombo2001

Zascar wrote: »

I'm getting married next week and many of my guests are flying Ryanair. It's in Faro. Does anyone now how I can find out if any of the flights will be affected? Thanks

They seem to be only giving 2 or 3 days ahead.

If it was me, and I was desperate to know - I would show up at their HQ in Dublin airport and demand an explanation - cant see anyone answering you over the phone or on Facebook.

Tombo2001

turkeyboy1990 wrote: »

Can someone help me please, its my first time flying with ryanair next friday from dublin to Edinburgh and back monday morning.
I have hotel booked which cost me a hefty amount and at this stage i wouldn't get a cent back if i cancelled.

If my flight was to be cancelled would i get my money back for the hotel and flight too? I have no travel insurance or anything also it would be too late to insure...

I would guess no.

Compensation is for the flight.

Insurance is for the other costs.

Zascar

Thankfully I'm flying Aer Lingus. I made an active decision to pay to fly Aer Lingus more because I did not want to risk it. Glad I did. Some of my guests however are on Ryanair - and I hope they wont miss the wedding...

OwaynOTT

Will this cancellation carrousel run into November?

embraer170

Ryanair should also be reimbursing passengers for an alternative flight if they themselves cannot provide a reasonable option.

Two days later is never a reasonable alternative.

J.pilkington

Brennus335 wrote: »

No, Norwegian specifically stated in a press release a couple of weeks ago that 140 Ryanair pilots had joined them this year.
This was in response to MoL' s claim that Norwegian "wouldn't survive the winter"

Either way it's another poorly written article with a headline number not being given context in the article itself

Nemanrio

Is there any info on flights cancelled in October?

L1011

Nemanrio wrote: »

Is there any info on flights cancelled in October?

No, because they are not giving that level of notice (yet, anyway).

Nemanrio

L1011 wrote: »

No, because they are not giving that level of notice (yet, anyway).

Thanks.

Farce of a situation. :mad:

munchkin_utd

a report from an aviation analyst in germany was speculating that the drive to have staff normalise their hours is so that they are in a position to react should Air Berlin be grounded which would mean their slots up for grabs immediately to airlines with staff and planes ready to fly in their place.

George Sunsnow

BBC Says "A Norwegian spokesperson said: "We can confirm that 140 pilots have joined us from Ryanair this year. Pilot recruitment is also underway for more pilots for our new Dublin base opening later this year."" A-ha.

Mebuntu

Well, it was inevitable that the anti-Ryanair brigade, Aer Lingus fanboys and and other grudge-holders would be out in force over this debacle.

That said, this is really an appalling decision by Ryanair to cause such stress and worry to their passengers not just by cancelling flights willy-nilly but also by giving such little notice which is of no use whatsoever for 99% of those affected. I say this as one of their best customers who has always focussed in on their reliability and punctuality (to complement their low fares).

What I really cannot understand is why they did not wet-lease in other aircraft to cover the gaps (or even some of them). Not even one aircraft. It's not as if they haven't done so before. There were at least two Summer schedules recently where they wet-leased in some 737's (I forget which airline) to fill the gaps. They could still do so.

It all beggars belief.

737max

I can't understand why they won't wet lease. It is expensive but necessary.
They'd had better be negotiating behind the scenes.

I'm a shareholder in Ryanair which has delivered a good quality product to millions of people who would otherwise not be able to afford to fly. I have no desire to be a shareholder in Ryanair who only deliver a promised service when it suits them to deliver it. I'm conflicted at the moment.

DivingDuck

Mebuntu wrote: »

What I really cannot understand is why they did not wet-lease in other aircraft to cover the gaps (or even some of them). Not even one aircraft. It's not as if they haven't done so before. There were at least two Summer schedules recently where they wet-leased in some 737's (I forget which airline) to fill the gaps. They could still do so.

At this point, though, what can they do about crew shortages?

That said, I agree the lack of notice here is appalling. They should be making cuts now to avoid paying out sub-14-day compensation notice and to avoid a further PR disaster. There's no reason they can't make these decisions much further ahead of time to give people notice and take the stress out of it.