The lonely and often cruel world of porn

JupiterKid

Now, let me get this clear by pointing out that this is NOT a right-wing moralistic rant against porn. I'm sure many here watch and enjoy porn - as I have and do. Beautiful women and men in exotic locations having endless sex. But you can definitely watch too much and TBH it gets boring and formulaic after a while.

But there is a darker side to the porn industry. Many "actors" are used by the industry and then spat out on the scrap heap. Only a very select few ever "make it" big and most have to supplement their often meagre porn incomes with escort work. The availability of so much free porn on the internet compared to VHS and DVD formats in the 1980s and 90s means shrinking revenues for porn studios and their "stars." Many end up isolated, lonely, turning to drugs for comfort. Many take their own lives.

Even 50 years after the sexual revolution, there is still such a social stigma about pornography that most stars never use their real names and never disclose their porn careers to their families. Indeed, the exposure of some porn actors has had devastating consequences for them.

Some articles below on the issue. Food for thought...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johnhenry-westen/want-to-stop-sex-traffick_b_6563338.html


https://www.thefix.com/content/keeping-it-porn-industry


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/lisa-ann-on-how-demand-for-extreme-porn-is-damaging-new-performers-that-does-break-you-down-as-a-a6838751.html


https://www.out.com/news-opinion/2013/05/09/porn-problem-star-death-arpad-miklos

Food for thought...

Sorry but not really. It's a profession that people aren't forced to do.

Omackeral

Is maith liom porn.

judeboy101

I don't like it when its spat out!

gifted

Great story lines though.........

deandean

Porn stars doing escort work you say? Wow. Out of interest, any links?

suicide_circus

I am typing this with one hand

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

Only a very select few ever "make it" big and most have to supplement their often meagre porn incomes with escort work.

I assume most in the industry are involved in prostitution. After all, when you make the moral jump to sex for money on camera, there isn't some huge moral jump to sex for money off camera. Not that I'm moralising, quite the opposite, as long as there is no trafficking involved it's a legitimate choice...just surmising...

Donald Trump

Ride me sideways was another one

frag420

I heard of one chap who has to drive a black taxi just to make ends meet...a cruel world indeed!!

tedpan

JupiterKid wrote:

Many end up isolated, lonely, turning to drugs for comfort.

This is the case for the majority of the public.. Whether it's illegal, prescription or alcohol, most don't like to admit it, everybody turns to drugs for comfort.

fryup

pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

frozenfrozen

fryup wrote: »

pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

What's your favourite site

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

excuse me, i never looked at pornography in my life

Wibbs

Oddly enough the first two things that jumped out at me(missus!) were these two lines.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Now, let me get this clear by pointing out that this is NOT a right-wing moralistic rant against porn.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that I'm moralising, quite the opposite, as long as there is no trafficking involved it's a legitimate choice...just surmising...

There seems to be a real fear these days to make any moral judgement. Not even "moral", just any judgement itself. An odd equivalence applied to a reality where things that are good and things that are bad can be defined. Now I understand why this is seen as a better worldview in the face of people and philosophies that damn near judge everything, but IMHO we can sometimes throw the baby out with the bathwater too. Some things are bad, some things are good. Viewing a 19 year old chugging cock on camera for a couple of hundred bucks and the possibility of "fame" and attention because there's a customer for that as a "legitimate choice" is not so good. For the 19 year old in question, nor the society that doesn't see that as any great issue, or makes it more likely that said 19 year old is more likely to see chugging cock on camera as a viable career alternative. Never mind that under their breath and behind the eyes people and societies most certainly do judge.

TBH I find professional porn of little interest, all close up prick pistoned orifices and fake tits and feelings and oddly jarring at times. A few years back I recall watching some blonde totty exposing her guts to male appendages and the camera saying "oh gosh I'm coming", because the crucifix on her neck would burn her skin if she profaned by saying "oh god". As a tableau of morals at cross purposes I struggle to find a better one.

Richard Hillman

Porn stars are definitely getting better looking. Back in the day it uses to be messed up girls who weren't munters. Now some of them are would have been models if they didn't come from such dysfunctional families.

All in all, the girls in general are pretty much all messed up. Usually dating back to an incident/incidents as a child.

pajo1981

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

excuse me, i never looked at pornography in my life

Don't you have mass to go to.

Alf Veedersane

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

excuse me, i never looked at pornography in my life

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Harika

Replace porn stars with pop stars and porn industry with music industry and you have the same for a different profession. Or nearly every glamour profession.

Wibbs

Richard Hillman wrote: »

All in all, the girls in general are pretty much all messed up. Usually dating back to an incident/incidents as a child.

I dunno R, IMHO that's often too easy a go to explanation. Sure, there will be people(there are men in porn too ) who are "messed up", broken in some way. The sexually abused, the hyper sexual, the hyper sexual who see their bodies as a saleable thing for any attention they don't think they'll get otherwise. But equally there will be many, if not many more, whose family and friends will be left scratching their heads why their loved one chose this route. It can be down to basic local economics too. If career routes for uneducated for the modern world women come down to waitressing, or cleaning, the "glamorous" world of porn can make getting spit roasted for fun and funds look like a decent alternative.

PirateShampoo

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

excuse me, i never looked at pornography in my life

So how can you have an opinion on the subject then?

Erik Shin

fryup wrote: »

pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

Or are married!

Wibbs

Harika wrote: »

Replace porn stars with pop stars and porn industry with music industry and you have the same for a different profession. Or nearly every glamour profession.

Ehh maybe. Or not. Sex is about as physically intimate as you can get with another human being. We tend to see it as a culturally private and intimate thing, with all sorts of emotional/spiritual/magical thinking[depending on viewpoint) attached to it. The vast majority of cultures throughout history viewed it through a similar prism. It's just a bit different than somebody murdering a cover song to a backing track. The exploitation of performer and audience and the need for attention can certainly be similar, but outside of that? I don't see it.

Akrasia

Harika wrote: »

Replace porn stars with pop stars and porn industry with music industry and you have the same for a different profession. Or nearly every glamour profession.

And sports profession.

The road to the premier league is littered with the broken dreams of thousands of young people who put their bodies on the line and were cast aside.

fryup

pajo1981 wrote: »

Don't you have mass to go to.

don't go to mass, i'm not a catholic

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So how can you have an opinion on the subject then?

i don't have to look at it to have an opinion on it

pajo1981

Nevver mind porn, according to Breda the whole feckin internet is evil:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/don-t-let-the-internet-bring-up-your-children-1.3222414?mode=amp

Now on your knees with you

Harika

Wibbs wrote: »

Ehh maybe. Or not. Sex is about as physically intimate as you can get with another human being. We tend to see it as a culturally private and intimate thing, with all sorts of emotional/spiritual/magical thinking[depending on viewpoint) attached to it.
_snip_

That's the Anglo American view, look to eg Germany or Austria to see how relaxed people are there about that. Or go to a spa there, where in Ireland people are fully clothed in Austria, Switzerland you are not allowed to wear clothes for hygiene reasons and no one is upset or gets excited about seeing naked people or complains about their private parts being visible.
But as the poster below you showed football is a great example as so many people will be impaired for the rest of their lives because of injuries.

Alf Veedersane

Harika wrote: »

That's the Anglo American view, look to eg Germany or Austria to see how relaxed people are there about that. Or go to a spa there, where in Ireland people are fully clothed in Austria, Switzerland you are not allowed to wear clothes for hygiene reasons and no one is upset or gets excited about seeing naked people or complains about their private parts being visible.

Wibbs is talking about sex. Not being naked.

blue note

JupiterKid wrote:

Now, let me get this clear by pointing out that this is NOT a right-wing moralistic rant against porn.

Oddly, I thought if anything you'd be accused of being a leftie. That the right would defend people's choice to go into the industry and the left would say it's a sexist industry that preys upon vulnerable women.

An industry where women are paid to have sex is very much not left wing. Back in the day however what a woman chooses to do with her body, choosing to have sex as she pleases would very much have been a liberal idea.

Funny how times change.

Wibbs

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Wibbs is talking about sex. Not being naked.

Yeah I kinda wondered about that myself. They are two very different things. Never mind that the notion of nakedness itself is culturally based. EG in some Amazonian tribal cultures the men and women look naked to us, as all they wear is a rope like belt. However if they remove that belt it's seen as scandalous.

In any event you're not seeing Germans and Austrians shagging in the streets. If anything public displays of sexual affection are more common in Latin countries where public nudity would be seen as less acceptable. So yeah, not comparable.

Akrasia

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Wibbs is talking about sex. Not being naked.

Times have changed though. Sex used to carry the very real risk of pregnancy and disease. Now we have reliable contraception and we can test for diseases.

Also, a woman's virginity was the property of her father. Any sex outside of marriage was considered to be a scandal, so even intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom was a shameful act a lot of the time

Not to mention the social stigma and shame associated with any kind of homosexual act that is only starting to be lifted as we emerge from the jackboot of organised religion and the suppression of humanity in deference scripture and patriarchy

Wibbs

Akrasia wrote: »

Times have changed though. Sex used to carry the very real risk of pregnancy and disease. Now we have reliable contraception and we can test for diseases.

Also, a woman's virginity was the property of her father. Any sex outside of marriage was considered to be a scandal, so even intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom was a shameful act a lot of the time

Not to mention the social stigma and shame associated with any kind of homosexual act that is only starting to be lifted as we emerge from the jackboot of organised religion and the suppression of humanity in deference scripture and patriarchy

Ah here, jackboots of god and the patriarchy makes an entrance? :pac: Man, that reads like some social "sciences" take on history and the history of culture. It is and was far more complex than that reading of things. And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.

Then again you did make a comparison to a failed sports person and porn, so I dunno where to go with that TBH.

Harika

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Wibbs is talking about sex. Not being naked.

Yeah, still close also look at the tons of amateurs those produce porn and don't have an issue with that. While I understand that you wouldn't do it, fair enough, tons of people have no issues with that either for free or money outside of the industry.

Day Lewin

Um, I have to disagree with the OP>
I am acquainted with a small number of people who supplement their incomes by doing on-cam work or by making small erotic movies for sale. None are prostitutes in even the remotest way. None are lonely, either.

of course, junkies will do anything to get a fix - whether it is prostitution, posing for commercial porn, breaking into houses -- anything, really. Porn sells well, of course. No surprise that the movie-makers don't care much about the actors. (But that's widespread across all showbiz. AND sport as mentioned above)

So, I just think the OP is wrong about this. Sure, some porn actors are sad people. And no doubt the makers of porn will be ruthless. But some of everyones are sad people. Caveat emptor!

Harika

Wibbs wrote: »

And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.
.

There are cultures still today where married couples will do everything to avoid being seeing naked in front of their partners. Orthodox Jews eg
And in Europa sex was seen as sinful and wrong if no child was conceived. Doesn't sound like a celebration to me

Collie D

fryup wrote: »

pornography is for sad bastards who can't get a girlfriend

What about the women who watch it?

John_D80

tedpan wrote: »

This is the case for the majority of the public.. Whether it's illegal, prescription or alcohol, most don't like to admit it, everybody turns to drugs for comfort.

No they don't. The overwhelming majority of people do not rely on any form of drugs for comfort.

Outlaw Pete

Porn is a job that girls can absolutely make the best of if they choose to do so.

There are of course many hard luck stories (usually the cocaine fiends) but there's also the ones that became millionaires and a bunch that used the cash they earned to put themselves through collage.

Lots of women now directing and producing porn now also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIoKDa032fw

The porn industry is far from the sinkhole many people (the ones with agendas) would have us all believe it to be.

Akrasia

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah here, jackboots of god and the patriarchy makes an entrance? :pac: Man, that reads like some social "sciences" take on history and the history of culture. It is and was far more complex than that reading of things. And no, intimate consensual sex between a couple in the privacy of their own bedroom wasn't seen as a shameful act in the vast majority of cases. If anything it was celebrated.

I'm not a fan of the couch sociology language either, but it was a shortcut to point out that attitudes to sex have changed enormously in one or two generations. In Ireland, not so long ago, living in sin was a very real stigma and a lot of people emigrated rather than having to deal with the valley of the squinting windows.

Then again you did make a comparison to a failed sports person and porn, so I dunno where to go with that TBH.

They're not exactly the same, but the title of this thread is the lonely and often cruel world of porn.
There could be a similar thread called the lonely and often cruel world of professional sport.

Both target youth and young people are lured in with the promise of wealth and fame. There are plane loads of young people flown to the academies of all the soccer clubs and only a small percentage are ever chosen. It's the same with sports in American colleges and high schools, these kids are hugely exploited when they are free labour, but only a fraction of a percent are ever drafted into the NBA or NFL, and of those, a lot of them never make it past journeyman status, or get injured early and dropped. When these players retire, only a small percentage of them can continue as coaches or pundits, the rest are dropped into the workforce with few transferable skills.

There are differences in the negative social attitude towards sex/porn and the veneration of elite sports, but there is an awful lot of exploitation in professional sports and you could fill books with individual stories of people who were sports stars in school, who never made it professional and ended up working for minimum wage with drug and alcohol problems later in life

kupus

Harika wrote: »

Replace porn stars with pop stars and porn industry with music industry and you have the same for a different profession. Or nearly every glamour profession.

Replace the word porn and pop with "every industry" in your sentence and you got it bang on,

You got to whore yourself out if you want to get ahead.

Harika

kupus wrote: »

Replace the word porn and pop with "every industry" in your sentence and you got it bang on,

You got to whore yourself out if you want to get ahead.

I agree but wanted to avoid the discussion if a cashier is as much exploited as a porn star.

bucketybuck

Day Lewin wrote: »

Um, I have to disagree with the OP>
I am acquainted with a small number of people who supplement their incomes by doing on-cam work or by making small erotic movies for sale. None are prostitutes in even the remotest way.

No, they are in fact prostitutes, by the very definition of the word.

Prostitute: a person, in particular a woman, who engages in sexual activity for payment.

Your acquaintances engage in sexual activity for payment, they are prostitutes.

Erik Shin

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, they are in fact prostitutes, by the very definition of the word.



Your acquaintances engage in sexual activity for payment, they are prostitutes.

Ever tried to shag a webcam?

Wibbs

Erik Shin wrote: »

Ever tried to shag a webcam?

You might get unsavoury answers to that question.

Akrasia

Erik Shin wrote: »

Ever tried to shag a webcam?

Yes, and you would too if you had this sexy beast, sitting there, begging for it

Spider Web

blue note wrote: »

Oddly, I thought if anything you'd be accused of being a leftie. That the right would defend people's choice to go into the industry and the left would say it's a sexist industry that preys upon vulnerable women.

An industry where women are paid to have sex is very much not left wing. Back in the day however what a woman chooses to do with her body, choosing to have sex as she pleases would very much have been a liberal idea.

Funny how times change.

I was thinking the same. Anti porn views are definitely not always rightwing. Nor always leftwing. Nor either.

It depends on the type of porn but the one with the women being shouted at and having their hair pulled... Christ, it's disturbing in my opinion. I'm not pushing an agenda, it's just my personal view. Really hardcore porn - watersports and DVDA and bukkake etc... just hideous in my opinion.

The Louis Theroux documentaries are eye opening - and they focus on how it can mess up the men too, not only the women.

That said, there are plenty of people who are just fine with working in the hardcore porn industry, but such a depiction of sex is very dark to me.

People who consume such porn can get defensive over criticisms of it, because, no doubt, they feel a sense of being accused of supporting something that damages people and they would never ordinarily hurt a woman. That's understandable but don't take it personally - plenty of people in the hardcore industry don't feel abused anyway. But examination of it, and concluding some negatives, is not unfair.

I don't think music and sport are always comparable (although they can be) because they don't involve selling sex.

smurgen

Couldn't care less about them.i also wonder why we put so much thought into the welfare of people making sub optimal lifestyle decisions while the plight of the average joe,9-5 worker gets largely ignored.the type of person that gets involved in these low effort,quick money industries are the same type of person that moves drugs for dealers etc. They for the most part wave their cash in the face and looks down their nose at average joes.i don't give a ****e when it all comes a cropper for them.

Wibbs

Harika wrote: »

There are cultures still today where married couples will do everything to avoid being seeing naked in front of their partners. Orthodox Jews eg

There are always outliers in human cultures. The vast majority do not feel, or act like this. In Islam where public displays of skin for both genders is restrictive compared to the west, but behind closed doors and especially in the marriage bed, no such restrictions are in play. It is encouraged for men and women to revel in each other's sexuality.

And in Europa sex was seen as sinful and wrong if no child was conceived.

Well kinda. It was oft seen as "sinful" if conception wasn't the ultimate aim, but the act itself was generally seen as a bonding between husband and wife. Again outside of a few outliers. Though I would agree that the European importation of the aforementioned Judaic thought on the matter certainly didn't help things. Some church fathers and thinkers were dead set against the whole thing and saw any sexual congress, even one resulting in kids as a sinful thing. Augustine of Hippo for example was beyond prudish on the matter, though he was one of those who saw sin bloody everywhere. Didn't stop him having a twenty year long affair and kid with a "low born" woman mind you. He thinks like the reformed whore.

corner of hells

frag420 wrote: »

I heard of one chap who has to drive a black taxi just to make ends meet...a cruel world indeed!!

I believe lots of plumbers make ends meet stating in porn too.

Pac1Man

I think it's disgraceful. It's been in the public's conscience for 30-40 years now but still nobody has even attempted to rectify it.

How can so many clean looking boilers keep breaking down all across Ireland and the UK seemingly just out of warranty?

smurgen

smurgen wrote: »

Couldn't care less about them.i also wonder why we put so much thought into the welfare of people making sub optimal lifestyle decisions while the plight of the average joe,9-5 worker gets largely ignored.the type of person that gets involved in these low effort,quick money industries are the same type of person that moves drugs for dealers etc. They for the most part wave their cash in the face and looks down their nose at average joes.i don't give a ****e when it all comes a cropper for them.

I'm not sure porn performers can be equated with drug dealers. Your post paints a picture of a person devoid of empathy. Not everyone comes from an equal place in terms of circumstances, people sometimes make sub-optimal decisions, and sometimes the consequences are tougher than ever foreseen.

People are human, they screw up, it doesn't mean they don't deserve sympathy, empathy, or help.

I'm not a fan of the porn industry generally, though I know many performers make informed decisions to get into the industry but you can never really know if the people you're watching at any given time are included in that group, or if their decision to be there is influenced by something deeper, more destructive, or desperate.