Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

gozunda

emo72 wrote: »

You'd be crazy to accuse him off terrorism, or even being a supporter of it. People who do that are not thinking rationally.

What I have an issue with is his support of the Muslim Brotherhood. I think they are abhorrent, and we should have nothing to do with them.

I do not believe any one is accusing him of anything. It remains there are some genuine questions / concrns as to his involvement with the MB protests in 2013.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a prescribed "terrorist organisation" in many countries including the country in which it was founded - Egypt. It has only briefly been a legal entity entered politics and won a national election . Under the rule of president Morsi millions of Egyptians then took to the streets to seek its overthrow in the face of wide spread abuse of power. After the Morsi led MB party were deposed - they once again listed as an illegal organisation in that country.

First Up

emo72 wrote:

What I have an issue with is his support of the Muslim Brotherhood. I think they are abhorrent, and we should have nothing to do with them.

They are not my cup of tea either but they have been involved in education and social services to Egypt's poor since 1928 and they were the elected governmnent.

I don't know to what extent young Hilawa supports them but he did nothing to deserve four years in prison without a trial.

Beechwoodspark

First Up wrote: »

I'll wait for the professional assessment. I have no evidence on which to base a view either way.

It would be quite shocking if the sister lied about such a basic detail. Either he was shot or he wasn't.

I also note he looked extremely well fed on his release.

The sister repeatedly told the media about his mistreatment in prison and his hunger strikes.

I was expecting to see a feeble and thin Ibrahim on his release [egyptian prisons are no holiday camp] but thankfully it was the opposite. He looks to be as fit as the proverbial butcher's dog.

So what happened?

It seems someone was lying about his treatment and it seems to be brushed under the carpet now?

If it turns out they did lie perhaps Nora Casey (the owner of the "irish tatler") might end up stripping the award back from the Halawa sisters.

First Up

Beechwoodspark wrote:

It would be quite shocking if the sister lied about such a basic detail. Either he was shot or he wasn't.

Agreed and I expect we will find out.

Beechwoodspark wrote:

I also note he looked extremely well fed on his release.

The sister repeatedly told the media about his mistreatment in prison and his hunger strikes.

I was expecting to see a feeble and thin Ibrahim on his release [egyptian prisons are no holiday camp] but thankfully it was the opposite. He looks to be as fit as the proverbial butcher's dog.

I read that embassy lobbying had him moved to the "VIP" part of the prison which might have helped. I agree he looked very healthy

Matt.ie

It would be more of a surprise if she were telling the gullible journalist the truth over the bullet wound.

The sisters have been full of lies when talking about the whole affair. One of them claimed to have flown to Egypt to get work experience as a montessori teacher!

smurgen

First Up wrote: »

I don't know if he was shot or not but I wouldn't base a claim that he wasn't on a photo taken four years later.

This is the double think that irks me.you wont believe a claim that he wasn't shot but you will believe a claim he was based upon absolutely nothing at all.madness.

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

...but they have been involved in education and social services to Egypt's poor since 1928...

"education" eh?
"social services" eh?

there was education and social services all right, of a very specific type.

First Up

smurgen wrote:

This is the double think that irks me.you wont believe a claim that he wasn't shot but you will believe a claim he was based upon absolutely nothing at all.madness.

I don't know if he was shot or not. That's why I'm waiting for a proper medical assessment rather than jump to a conclusion either way.

I know that is aberrant behavior for this thread but that's just silly old me and my attachment to facts.

Beechwoodspark

Matt.ie wrote: »

It would be more of a surprise if she were telling the gullible journalist the truth over the bullet wound.

The sisters have been full of lies when talking about the whole affair. One of them claimed to have flown to Egypt to get work experience as a montessori teacher!

Might be an idea to boycott Norah caseys publications until she addresses these very pertinent concerns that a huge amount of people have with the Halawa's stories. Note the plural.

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

that's not your concern.



so what? they are entitled to sue the government as are we all if we have grounds to do so. if they have no case then that will be determined by a judge.



no they aren't.

It's my concern if they are doing it at taxpayers expense through free legal aid.

Going to court is expensive so how are they financing it?

Maybe the lads over in Dubai are stumping up the cash but if there is nothing to hide as you keep suggesting they should have no trouble telling us.

We must be the only country where people show up complaining they are in danger in their own country, are given a good life and they sue us.

And then they turn around x number of years later and bring little bro over there and cost us thousands more getting him back from trouble he landed himself in.

They've been nothing but hassle to this country, do nothing constructive to the benefit of Ireland and yet idiots give them awards!

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

We must be the only country where people show up complaining they are in danger in their own country, are given a good life and they sue us.

i'd doubt it. the legal system in most western countries is open for anyone in the country to use it if they have a greevence.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And then they turn around x number of years later and bring little bro over there and cost us thousands more getting him back from trouble he landed himself in.

again so what? he went to egypt for a holiday and protested. the government followed their obligations in terms of trying to help an irish citizen.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They've been nothing but hassle to this country, do nothing constructive to the benefit of Ireland and yet idiots give them awards!

proof please. your allegations are incorrect. they got an award for helping their brother who was in a dangerous situation.

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

i'd doubt it. the legal system in most western countries is open for anyone in the country to use it if they have a greevence.



again so what? he went to egypt for a holiday and protested. the government followed their obligations in terms of trying to help an irish citizen.



proof please. your allegations are incorrect. they got an award for helping their brother who was in a dangerous situation.

They got an award for shouting at people who were trying their best to get junior out of a mess entirely of his own making.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They got an award for shouting at people who were trying their best to get junior out of a mess entirely of his own making.

nope they got an award for helping their brother who was in a dangerous situation in egypt.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

nope they got an award for helping their brother who was in a dangerous situation in egypt.

What dangerous situation ,

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

"education" eh? "social services" eh?

there was education and social services all right, of a very specific type.

I know. It would remind you of radical outfits like the Christian Brothers.

gozunda

end of the road wrote: »

nope they got an award for helping their brother who was in a dangerous situation in egypt.

...of his own making

Lukker-

Out of curiosity what do people who are against him being released and returned to Ireland prefer to have done?

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

I know. It would remind you of radical outfits like the Christian Brothers.

we can do this properly if you like?
I could enlighten you on how the MB tried to reform education and Egyptian society since their establishment, but reforms of a very specific type.
It'll take some effort on my part, posting links and texts from sources other than Wiki etc. but as I've a feeling based on your form here my good faith in engaging and effort wouldn't be reciprocated, I'll not be bothering my hoop.

So other than a dollop of misplaced whataboutery(and if you're seriously comparing the CBs (bad as they were) to the MB, you're even more delusional than the standard useful idiot we unfortunately seem to have aplenty) have you anything tangible to add?

punisher5112

Why would they get an award.

They shouldn't have gone over.

I find it hilarious that they went for a holiday in the middle of a coup.

Roger Hassenforder

Lukker- wrote: »

Out of curiosity what do people who are against him being released and returned to Ireland prefer to have done?

I dont think people are against him per se. I'd like to think of him as a misguided youth caught up in his dads political shenanigans and rotted as a result of these.

I think most of us are against the 4 year circus of orchestrated lies, spin and obfuscation by people of questionable bone fides, mistruths and pathetic frequent cries of "racist" to anyone that arches an eyebrow quizzically. He became a cause celebre of every lefty liberal republican in the country.
We've been played for mugs.

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

I think most of us are against the 4 year circus of orchestrated lies, spin and obfuscation by people of questionable bone fides, mistruths and pathetic frequent cries of "racist" to anyone that arches an eyebrow quizzically. He became a cause celebre of every lefty liberal republican in the country. We've been played for mugs.

Well I'm neither a lefty or a republican and I have spent enough time in Islamic countries to appreciate living in one that isn't.

But I have an old fashioned affection for due process and I've seen enough damage caused by fanatical ideologies and intolerance from all sides to know that injustice is not the solution for anything.

I'm not pretending to have the answer but the cess-pit on show in this thread certainly isn't it.

Matt.ie

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

I dont think people are against him per se. I'd like to think of him as a misguided youth caught up in his dads political shenanigans and rotted as a result of these.

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

I think most of us are against the 4 year circus of orchestrated lies, spin and obfuscation by people of questionable bone fides, mistruths and pathetic frequent cries of "racist" to anyone that arches an eyebrow quizzically. He became a cause celebre of every lefty liberal republican in the country. We've been played for mugs.

Exactly what you said. Thank you.

I've nothing against the man. It's the constant half truths despite gaping holes in the story we were spun. The constant Irish Ibrahim halawa that prompted one commentator to ask had RTE changed his first name to Irish.

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

But I have an old fashioned affection for due process and I've seen enough damage caused by fanatical ideologies and intolerance from all sides to know that injustice is not the solution for anything.

the irony of that statement in this context.

I dont have all the answers either, but lies are only in the Liar's interests if told to conceal an uncomfortable truth

The_Kew_Tour

Matt.ie wrote: »

Exactly what you said. Thank you.

I've nothing against the man. It's the constant half truths despite gaping holes in the story we were spun. The constant Irish Ibrahim halawa that prompted one commentator to ask had RTE changed his first name to Irish.

Same. Its not really him, it's the lie, after lie, we been told.

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

I dont have all the answers either, but lies are only in the Liar's interests if told to conceal an uncomfortable truth

Well lets see what were lies and what were contrived allegations and then we'll all be better able to judge.

Roger Hassenforder

Matt.ie wrote: »

The constant Irish Ibrahim halawa that prompted one commentator to ask had RTE changed his first name to Irish.

this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZkBu2aM06I

First Up

The_Kew_Tour wrote:

Same. Its not really him, it's the lie, after lie, we been told.

Which lies, told by who and in what way do they diminish the incontestible fact that he was in jail for four years for no good reason other than political opportunism?

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

Which lies, told by who and in what way do they diminish the incontestible fact that he was in jail for four years for no good reason other than political opportunism?

that incontestable fact suited some more than others, others not who you seem to think, a sort of "passive aggressive" political opportunism, the longer it went on the less the initial opportunists benefited

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

that incontestable fact suited some more than others, others not who you seem to think, a sort of "passive aggressive" political opportunism, the longer it went on the less the initial opportunists benefited

I doubt the Egyptian military government or judiciary gave a moment's thought to how it was going down in Ireland unless forced to by the interventions of the Irish embassy and government.

The only "'opportunism" I've seen from this side was the effort by the family to get him released from what was ultimately shown to be unjustified incarceration. If they played the media a bit in doing so, I find it hard to blame them. The kid was locked up for no reason and they were dead right to campaign on his behalf.

This was not a political or ideological campaign or conspiracy. It was a human story that people in this thread have been trying to portray as something else for their own reasons.

Matt.ie

First Up wrote:

I doubt the Egyptian military government or judiciary gave a moment's thought to how it was going down in Ireland unless forced to by the interventions of the Irish embassy and government.

First Up wrote:

The only "'opportunism" I've seen from this side was the effort by the family to get him released from what was ultimately shown to be unjustified incarceration. If they played the media a bit in doing so, I find it hard to blame them. The kid was locked up for no reason and they were dead right to campaign on his behalf.

First Up wrote:

This was not a political or ideological campaign or conspiracy. It was a human story that people in this thread have been trying to portray as something else for their own reasons.

This is not true though is it?

We had numerous government delegates going to Egypt meeting their equivalents talking about huge trade deals,but we were reminded that these deals were wholly dependant on halawas release.