Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

I doubt the Egyptian military government or judiciary gave a moment's thought to how it was going down in Ireland unless forced to by the interventions of the Irish embassy and government.

The only "'opportunism" I've seen from this side was the effort by the family to get him released from what was ultimately shown to be unjustified incarceration. If they played the media a bit in doing so, I find it hard to blame them. The kid was locked up for no reason and they were dead right to campaign on his behalf.

This was not a political or ideological campaign or conspiracy. It was a human story that people in this thread have been trying to portray as something else for their own reasons.

the Egyptians couldn't give a flying fcuk what we think. Do you seriously think they finally succumbed after 4 years of intense political pressure by a little island bleating on about one of its citizens?
this kid was a pawn. He was used by the Egyptian government, and by his own.


"for their own reasons" what could that be?

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

the Egyptians couldn't give a flying fcuk what we think. Do you seriously think they finally succumbed after 4 years of intense political pressure by a little island bleating on about one of its citizens? this kid was a pawn. He was used by the Egyptian government, and by his own.

His own (the Irish) was delivering its consular responsibility. The Egyptian government had its own agenda.

But yes, he was a pawn.

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

"for their own reasons" what could that be?

I have my suspicions but I'll leave it to your own interpretation.

AlekSmart

First Up wrote: »

I doubt the Egyptian military government or judiciary gave a moment's thought to how it was going down in Ireland unless forced to by the interventions of the Irish embassy and government.

The only "'opportunism" I've seen from this side was the effort by the family to get him released from what was ultimately shown to be unjustified incarceration. If they played the media a bit in doing so, I find it hard to blame them. The kid was locked up for no reason and they were dead right to campaign on his behalf.

This was not a political or ideological campaign or conspiracy. It was a human story that people in this thread have been trying to portray as something else for their own reasons.

It would be interesting to see how far one can go with "opportunism" when mounting campaigns against far away regime's,particularly when your particular side has been shown to have pecularities which have severely reduced it's original appeal in a very rapid manner.

Playing the Media is,I suppose,a nice,easy going way of putting it,which manages to deflect attention from,both,questionable accounts from the 3 sisters and,perhaps of greater importance to Irish society,yet another example of Irsh Media reluctance to engage in anything which might serve as investigative journalism.

It should be borne in mind,that this is the same Irish media,which has tended to ignore the oft expressed concerns of Sheikh Al-Quadri regarding issues of central importance to Irish Islam and the broader issues of integration and religious freedom.

The Blanchardstown Mosque,and it's senior clerics have been far more cogniscent of the very obvious realities of radical Islam and the threat posed to both mainstream Muslims and non-believers alike.

Yet,it's only since the Halawa case brought with it,a fuller appreciation of the MB linkage,and the extent of MB representation and influence in Ireland,that Imam Al Quadri's views have gained any media traction in Ireland.

What a pity Imam Al Quadri,couldn't have "played the media" a wee bit more,or been a tad more "opportunistic" than his co-religionists on the southside,for then we all might have been better placed,to give more informed consideration to the line constantly pursued by the embedded media in the Halawa campaign.

First Up

Matt.ie wrote:

We had numerous government delegates going to Egypt meeting their equivalents talking about huge trade deals,but we were reminded that these deals were wholly dependant on halawas release.

Totally wrong.

Irish - Egyptian trade is hugely in our favour. We have no leverage in using trade to influence Egyptian policy. In fact it is the reverse; the Irish government was accused of going easy on the Halawa case because we were trying to get a ban on Irish beef lifted.

Yes, the Halawa case was raised at every opportunity but not as a bargaining chip for trade.

SEPT 23 1989

Is his mother still alive?

Usually the mother and father are front and centre in these types of situations

pablo128

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Is his mother still alive?

Usually the mother and father are front and centre in these types of situations

His mother is not well. Out of all of them, she did the most without any recognition so she deserves to be left out of any criticism.

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

His own (the Irish) was delivering its consular responsibility. The Egyptian government had its own agenda.

But yes, he was a pawn.

I have my suspicions but I'll leave it to your own interpretation.

How can I interpret your allegations of some sort of conspiracy or even hidden forces and motives, when you yourself have abjectly failed to qualify your own claim they're at work?
You're not spoofing are you?

gozunda

pablo128 wrote: »

His mother is not well. Out of all of them, she did the most without any recognition so she deserves to be left out of any criticism.

I've asked this before (and by this I mean rhetorically) why has the mother been so publicaly left out of this whole story when alledgedly she was the only one of the family who visited IH in prison in Egypt. The family are vocal enough - yet they do not even mention her role despite obvious opportunities to do so.

And yet we have mass publicity for the five sisters (not three) and the brother in concert

The more I see of this whole debacle I see a carefully crafted media event - from early publicity- to spoon fed stories designed to garner sympathy - to the current media love fest

The main problem with this whole thing is that even the most cursory investigation of the 'facts shows up vast gapping holes in the debacle ...

That which has been painted and what we are supposed to believe appears to be more makebelieve or at least what we are supposed to hear than reality imo

Gatling

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Is his mother still alive?

Usually the mother and father are front and centre in these types of situations

She was there in Egypt everyday bringing him meals on a daily basis ..


Despite himself been apparently been starved

smurgen

If he had wounds and scars on his body i absolutely guarantee they would have been photographs of him showing these in the paper.why show items like the letter from prison but not show physical signs of mistreatment?

bajer101

Regarding the alleged gunshot wound to the hand, I would like to see evidence of this. It should be very easy to prove. The lack of evidence of such an easily probable claim makes me think that it's nonsense. The same as all the other claims that they made. They are pretty much proven liars.

I don't blame them. I'd also do whatever it took to help a family member. And, indeed fair play to them, they probably do deserve awards for their actions in getting their brother out of jail.

It's the people who are supporting them in this duplicity that is annoying.

Ash.J.Williams

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Might be an idea to boycott Norah caseys publications until she addresses these very pertinent concerns that a huge amount of people have with the Halawa's stories. Note the plural.

off ya go!

AlekSmart

bajer101 wrote: »

Regarding the alleged gunshot wound to the hand, I would like to see evidence of this. It should be very easy to prove. The lack of evidence of such an easily probable claim makes me think that it's nonsense. The same as all the other claims that they made. They are pretty much proven liars.

I don't blame them. I'd also do whatever it took to help a family member. And, indeed fair play to them, they probably do deserve awards for their actions in getting their brother out of jail.

It's the people who are supporting them in this duplicity that is annoying.

In all honesty,the sidebar issues which have surrounded Ibrahim Halawa's issues in Egypt are now all mere incidentals,of very little actual value in the bigger picture.

It is immaterial whether his Passport was destroyed,it is incidental whether he recieved a gunshot wound and it matters little whether he was on hunger strikes.

What does matter,even more so,now that he is back home and "on the circuit",is the basic issues of what exactly he & his family were campaigning so stridently for during their holidays in Egypt.

To suggest,at this point,that their core issue was merely "Freedom" for the Egyptian people is perhaps simplistic and deflective,particularly as a Very Large number of the Egyptian people appear reasonably satisfied with the opposing viewpoint,as evidenced by the significant threats made by "Locals" against the protesters safety on that "Day of Rage".

Luckily for the Halawa family,on that day,the Egyptian Police and Army do appear to have saved them from further harm,a reality for which they have recieved little thanks ??

First Up

AlekSmart wrote:

It would be interesting to see how far one can go with "opportunism" when mounting campaigns against far away regime's,particularly when your particular side has been shown to have pecularities which have severely reduced it's original appeal in a very rapid manner.

The campaign was to get their brother home. Nothing else.

First Up

AlekSmart wrote:

To suggest,at this point,that their core issue was merely "Freedom" for the Egyptian people is perhaps simplistic and deflective

The core issue was merely freedom for their brother/son.

Omackeral

First Up wrote: »

The campaign was to get their brother home. Nothing else.

Well not quite nothing else, they've another campaign which involves suing the state.

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

How can I interpret your allegations of some sort of conspiracy or even hidden forces and motives, when you yourself have abjectly failed to qualify your own claim they're at work? You're not spoofing are you?

You can interpret what I said any way you want. I made no allegations.

Omackeral

bajer101 wrote: »

Regarding the alleged gunshot wound to the hand, I would like to see evidence of this. It should be very easy to prove. The lack of evidence of such an easily probable claim makes me think that it's nonsense. The same as all the other claims that they made. They are pretty much proven liars.

You'll be told it's none of your business by the very same people who bleat PROOF, EVIDENCE, SOURCE anytime a claim is made.

bajer101 wrote: »

I don't blame them. I'd also do whatever it took to help a family member. And, indeed fair play to them, they probably do deserve awards for their actions in getting their brother out of jail.

Really good point. Fair and balanced.

First Up

Omackeral wrote:

Well not quite nothing else, they've another campaign which involves suing the state.

A different matter and a different "campaign".

The only commonalities are the name Halawa and their desire to see due process delivered in a timely manner.

First Up

Omackeral wrote:

You'll be told it's none of your business by the very same people who bleat PROOF, EVIDENCE, SOURCE anytime a claim is made.

On the contrary, the claim he was shot and left untreated should be supported with medical evidence which should be easy enough to produce.

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

You can interpret what I said any way you want. I made no allegations.

Qualify your insinuationn, you've been asked before.

First Up wrote: »

This was not a political or ideological campaign or conspiracy. It was a human story that people in this thread have been trying to portray as something else for their own reasons.

Omackeral

First Up wrote: »

On the contrary, the claim he was shot and left untreated should be supported with medical evidence which should be easy enough to produce.

Nah there's one poster in particular here who'd say it's none of our business but would be demanding proof if the shoe was on the other foot or the bullet was in the other hand.

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

Qualify your insinuationn, you've been asked before.

"Their own reasons" means trying to use this as the basis for a scare-mongering campaign to demonise muslims in general.

First Up

Omackeral wrote:

Nah there's one poster in particular here who'd say it's none of our business but would be demanding proof if the shoe was on the other foot or the bullet was in the other hand.

Which poster?

Omackeral

First Up wrote: »

Which poster?

Well he wouldn't be First Up, more at the other end of the road.

Roger Hassenforder

First Up wrote: »

"Their own reasons" means trying to use this as the basis for a scare-mongering campaign to demonise muslims in general.

there's very few of them.
Should be easy enough identify them

First Up

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

there's very few of them. Should be easy enough identify them

It is. How many of them there is could be another matter.

rgossip30

The government has bent over backwards for this family not at all surprised if large donations were given to Fine Gael .
Ibhrhim Halawa made promises to help prisoners abroad , interesting what he will be doing in a few years .

Will I Am Not

rgossip30 wrote: »

Ibhrhim Halawa made promises to help prisoners abroad , interesting what he will be doing in a few years .

Clearing out Guantanamo?


Edit - I feel I have to state that this is not a serious answer btw.

Ash.J.Williams

rgossip30 wrote: »

The government has bent over backwards for this family not at all surprised if large donations were given to Fine Gael .
Ibhrhim Halawa made promises to help prisoners abroad , interesting what he will be doing in a few years .

Great made up story there bro