Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

Annasopra

super_furry wrote: »

Be honest here. Do you think anyone with a name like Halawa and with a muslim background can ever be Irish?

Yes. He is Irish.

prinzeugen

smelly sock wrote: »

They were but managed to slot the protest in before a visit to the pyramids.

That's what I thought.. There was me thinking that they had been plucked from the crowd at random like Forest Gump was to address the masses.

testaccount123

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes. He is Irish.

Irish he may be, but he's still a bit of a ****.

MonkieSocks

Can't see him getting back into the United Team at the moment.

They hammered Everton out of it, on Sunday

Barry Badrinath

smelly sock wrote: »

All of it was your opinion son. You cant back any of it up.

Are you mental? I cant back any of my comments up? :pac:

Para 1.
"I'm just hoping the 'Halawa fanboys' know the significance of him being there and what organisations were represented and how that plays out on an international stage."

I dont need to "back up" that comment. Its self explanatory...to most people.

Para 2.
"Not only that, also how "Ireland Inc." was used by the family, media and vested interest groups. We were used as a political bandage to fix the owie from a self inflicted wound."

Again, self explanatory with a myriad of evidence over the last few years....again, evident to most people.

Para 3.
"People seem to be using both the racism and "he was found innocent" defence. Those people need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture."

Well....take a look at earlier posts in the thread to "back up" the comment. Again...evident to most people. Factually correct.

Para 4.
"He may have been aquitted of being a "terrorist" but he is certaintly guilty of being part of a protest organised by the internationally recognised terrorist group, the Muslim Brotherhood"

Um, again...factually correct.

Para 5.
"The media will have you believe they were "caught up" in the protest. You dont get "caught up" in a widely organised "day of rage".....you just dont".

The media had stated in earlier articles that they were "caught up" in a protest or day of rage. There is even video evidence of him at these protests....so...ummm...its factual also.

Para 6.
"Being part of something means you believe in it"

Common sense really.

Para 7.
"This is obviously a sensitive subject for people as on the surface there are multiple issues at play. The family and their influence have won over the general public and it has all been cleverly constructed."

Again, this is very evident and self explanatory and needs no "backing up". You cannot deny that the family have won over the general public or that it is a sensitive subject with multiple issues.

I hope that clears it up for you. If not, well thats your problem.

Now, can you come up with an answer to the question....

what were they doing....at a day of rage...and protests...organised by the MB?

Amalgam

Members of his extended family are, 'persons of interest' to the security forces in the UK. This has been covered in the UK press, not sure about here. Leaning towards political ideals of Sharia for everyone, whether you want it or not..

testaccount123

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

what were they doing....at a day of rage...and protests...organised by the MB?

Perhaps they were out protesting in favour of female genital mutilation or rejecting UN declarations calling for an end to all forms of violence against women?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/mar/18/muslim-brotherhood-rejects-egyptian-womens-rights

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

He should also pass on posters in this thread openly calling for terrorism, like the murder of our own head of state. Surely some of the posters making a strong point about Halawa being questioned by Gardai will be quickly in touch with their local station to inform them of this extremist terrorist threat.

Surely, right?

You should listen to yourself sometimes.

Barry Badrinath

smelly sock wrote: »

Democracy.

The Muslim Brotherhood does not believe in
democracy in the trafitional sense. It uses "democracy" as a tool so they can be given a legitimate voice...then democracy is out the window.

Also, they were protesting the overthrowing of President Morsi...a prominent Muslim Brotherhood member.

testaccount123

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You should listen to yourself sometimes.

Eh, I think he might be right there chief

Sweetemotion

testaccount123 wrote: »

Eh, I think he might be right there chief

Exactly. I agree with him on this.

KungPao

dying for a full Irish I'd say.

Extra puddin, love, nice one.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You should listen to yourself sometimes.

We had people in the London thread just one or two days ago saying if you see any calls for terrorism etc and do not report them, it should be a crime. Yet all I'm seeing is radio silence when there's a right winger calling for our head of state of 'get a bullet' and saying Irish people should commit terrorism. If you heard a Muslim lad saying the GPO needed to be bombed or Irish politicians needed to be shot, I'm sure your reaction would be the exact same as it is to this, because it's terrorism you're worried about and not scary brown people with a different religion, right?

Ash.J.Williams

Shpudnik wrote: »

I'm 17 and don't go to rallies that would get me arrested.

Maybe you should

SafeSurfer

Whatever about his past or his pronouncements he has been acquitted after a trial so I think that should be the end of it.
Of course the story isn't as black and white as it will be presented in the media but after Leo's intervention it is now political so will be spun as a good news story. The finer inconvenient details will be ignored.

wonderfullife

Thought experiment:

Transpose the facts of this case.

Young man, let's call him Aidan McGregor, Scottish parents but born and bred in Ireland. Does his Leaving Cert at 17, likely hasn't a pot to piss in but is told he's going to Scotland for a holiday. While there, he attends an extremist rally with his family for Scottish independence and is broadly supportive of achieving that by violent ideology. "Stick it to the Brits!" he chants. He gets arrested on suspicion of being a member of a terrorist organisation, is held, denied bail, is tried and acquitted.

Is the reaction the same to him coming home to Ireland? Do we suggest deporting him to Scotland because he identifies as Scottish? Do we castigate him for being supportive of violence?

It's mind-boggling how differently people treat things due to religion and skin colour - especially as we live on an island where for decades people (north and south) were sympathetic, even vocally supportive towards terrorists causes and violence on both sides. "Ooh aah up the 'Ra" and "IRA" are still chanted by teenagers and adults alike to this day singing songs like Fields of Athenry.

The idea that this 17 year-old kid might have been broadly supportive of violent ideology to me is a complete irrelevance because if we're convicting teenagers for thought-crimes - sympathising with violence - we'd have thrown half the youth of this country in jail in the 1970's and 1980's.

I don't care what he thinks. I care what he does. According to this court judgement, he did feck all. He should be treated as if he did feck all.

He won't be because his name is Ibrahim and his religion is Islam.

prinzeugen

Amalgam wrote: »

Members of his extended family are, 'persons of interest' to the security forces in the UK. This has been covered in the UK press, not sure about here. Leaning towards political ideals of Sharia for everyone, whether you want it or not..

Indeed, if he has to change planes in the UK it MIGHT be the same crap again..

RobertKK

Egypt needed a military coup as the Muslim Brotherhood were dividing the country, wanted sharia law and due to the violence and murdering of Christians that the Muslim Brotherhood were inciting.
The Egyptian army rescued the country.

Democracy is not always the answer, Libya is listed as a democracy, but the big concern in the past week is the concerns that Islamist extremists fleeing Syria are going to Libya.
Gaddafi was removed and murdered for saying he was going to attack the terrorists in Benghazi, which a year or later led to terrorists in Benghazi killing the US ambassador, after victory over Gaddafi had been achieved...
Democracy gave us some very bad situations, it is not always the best solution. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was not a good solution for Egypt, just like removing Gaddafi for democracy was not a good solution for Libya, which ended up being a terrorist base.

deco nate

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yes. He is Irish.

When he rips up his Irish passport and claims to be Egyptian.
Fcuk him. Really.

Only Irish when it suits him and his family

Atoms for Peace

Arsemageddon wrote: »

They might be gobsh1tes, but the Muslim Brotherhood happened to be the legitimate government of Egypt which were overthrown in a military coup. The fact that they haven't staged an armed insurrection would tend to indicate they are not really an extremist organisation.

Good to see the lad getting out. It's a bonus to see all the usual suspects here foaming at the mouth about it.

They have been behind numerous plots including the assassination of Sadat.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

We had people in the London thread just one or two days ago saying if you see any calls for terrorism etc and do not report them, it should be a crime. Yet all I'm seeing is radio silence when there's a right winger calling for our head of state of 'get a bullet' and saying Irish people should commit terrorism. If you heard a Muslim lad saying the GPO needed to be bombed or Irish politicians needed to be shot, I'm sure your reaction would be the exact same as it is to this, because it's terrorism you're worried about and not scary brown people with a different religion, right?

No not at all I'm agreeing with you and please don't try paint me a racist by bringing up brown people.

I'm sure you think all those celebrities calling for the head of the United States to be murdered also as terrorists now?

Am I right?

Billy86

deco nate wrote: »

When he rips up his Irish passport and claims to be Egyptian.
Fcuk him. Really.

Only Irish when it suits him and his family

When did he rip up his Irish passport and renounce being Irish?

darced

This post has been deleted.

SafeSurfer

wonderfullife wrote: »

Thought experiment:

Transpose the facts of this case.

Young man, let's call him Aidan McGregor, Scottish parents but born and bred in Ireland. Does his Leaving Cert at 17, likely hasn't a pot to piss in but is told he's going to Scotland for a holiday. While there, he attends an extremist rally with his family for Scottish independence and is broadly supportive of achieving that by violent ideology. "Stick it to the Brits!" he chants. He gets arrested on suspicion of being a member of a terrorist organisation, is held, denied bail, is tried and acquitted.

Is the reaction the same to him coming home to Ireland? Do we suggest deporting him to Scotland because he identifies as Scottish? Do we castigate him for being supportive of violence?

It's mind-boggling how differently people treat things due to religion and skin colour - especially as we live on an island where for decades people (north and south) were sympathetic, even vocally supportive towards terrorists causes and violence on both sides. "Ooh aah up the 'Ra" and "IRA" are still chanted by teenagers and adults alike to this day singing songs like Fields of Athenry.

The idea that this 17 year-old kid might have been broadly supportive of violent ideology to me is a complete irrelevance because if we're convicting teenagers for thought-crimes - sympathising with violence - we'd have thrown half the youth of this country in jail in the 1970's and 1980's.

I don't care what he thinks. I care what he does. According to this court judgement, he did feck all. He should be treated as if he did feck all.

He won't be because his name is Ibrahim and his religion is Islam.

You are not transposing the facts of the case. You are describing a narrative in which he is faultless.

I don't understand your point about 17 years olds and supporting violence. You say half the youth of the country would have been jailed for supporting violence in the 70s and 80s.
Really. Do you really believe that over half of the youth of this island supported the IRA in the 70s and 80s? Really?

SkepticQuark

deco nate wrote: »

When he rips up his Irish passport and claims to be Egyptian.
Fcuk him. Really.

Only Irish when it suits him and his family

I wish people like you would provide sound evidence to claims before making them. We've had a great time with people going "ah shur common sense like!" and act like that's sound evidence. So please have you a picture, an article etc. to show he "rips up his Irish passport"?

I have dual citizenship and use that to my advantage when I can but it doesn't change which countries must recognise me as a citizen. It's great you lot go on about being Irish as if it's some magical thing like a knighthood that's only given to the most Irish of the Irish, it's a question of legality.

Barry Badrinath

wonderfullife wrote: »

Thought experiment:

Transpose the facts of this case.

Young man, let's call him Aidan McGregor, Scottish parents but born and bred in Ireland. Does his Leaving Cert at 17, likely hasn't a pot to piss in but is told he's going to Scotland for a holiday. While there, he attends an extremist rally with his family for Scottish independence and is broadly supportive of achieving that by violent ideology. "Stick it to the Brits!" he chants. He gets arrested on suspicion of being a member of a terrorist organisation, is held, denied bail, is tried and acquitted.

Is the reaction the same to him coming home to Ireland? Do we suggest deporting him to Scotland because he identifies as Scottish? Do we castigate him for being supportive of violence?

It's mind-boggling how differently people treat things due to religion and skin colour - especially as we live on an island where for decades people (north and south) were sympathetic, even vocally supportive towards terrorists causes and violence on both sides. "Ooh aah up the 'Ra" and "IRA" are still chanted by teenagers and adults alike to this day singing songs like Fields of Athenry.

The idea that this 17 year-old kid might have been broadly supportive of violent ideology to me is a complete irrelevance because if we're convicting teenagers for thought-crimes - sympathising with violence - we'd have thrown half the youth of this country in jail in the 1970's and 1980's.

I don't care what he thinks. I care what he does. According to this court judgement, he did feck all. He should be treated as if he did feck all.

He won't be because his name is Ibrahim and his religion is Islam.

In your story twist.

Does Aidan also have a family with deep religious ideology and is his father the figurehead of that Ideology in Ireland? This is significant.

Was Aiden also at the week long rally with his siblings...not his parents? Did Aidan also make videos of his particpation at these protests.

Your story twist is not like for like.

As you said... "transpose the facts of the case".

prinzeugen

wonderfullife wrote: »

Thought experiment:

Transpose the facts of this case.

Young man, let's call him Aidan McGregor, Scottish parents but born and bred in Ireland. Does his Leaving Cert at 17, likely hasn't a pot to piss in but is told he's going to Scotland for a holiday. While there, he attends an extremist rally with his family for Scottish independence and is broadly supportive of achieving that by violent ideology. "Stick it to the Brits!" he chants. He gets arrested on suspicion of being a member of a terrorist organisation, is held, denied bail, is tried and acquitted.

Is the reaction the same to him coming home to Ireland? Do we suggest deporting him to Scotland because he identifies as Scottish? Do we castigate him for being supportive of violence?

It's mind-boggling how differently people treat things due to religion and skin colour - especially as we live on an island where for decades people (north and south) were sympathetic, even vocally supportive towards terrorists causes and violence on both sides. "Ooh aah up the 'Ra" and "IRA" are still chanted by teenagers and adults alike to this day singing songs like Fields of Athenry.

The idea that this 17 year-old kid might have been broadly supportive of violent ideology to me is a complete irrelevance because if we're convicting teenagers for thought-crimes - sympathising with violence - we'd have thrown half the youth of this country in jail in the 1970's and 1980's.

I don't care what he thinks. I care what he does. According to this court judgement, he did feck all. He should be treated as if he did feck all.

He won't be because his name is Ibrahim and his religion is Islam.

Bollox. Utter bollox. You cannot compare Scottish nationalism to them.

I am Scottish born and while there are extreme nationalist movements, I have yet to hear of them cutting folks heads off, drowning them, burning them, blowing them up etc..

I hate the SNP but would never compare them to this lads crowd.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

No not at all I'm agreeing with you and please don't try paint me a racist by bringing up brown people.

I'm sure you think all those celebrities calling for the head of the United States to be murdered also as terrorists now also?

Am I right?

If you say someone needs to get shot for political reasons, then yes you are calling for a terrorist act. Likewise if that president has called for violence for political reasons (like say, against protesters), they too should be held liable.

testaccount123

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's mind-boggling how differently people treat things due to religion and skin colour

Youre right there. If some pasty Irish ex-catholic guy was arrested at a rally for an arch conservative organisation in the US or elsewhere do you think he'd be welcomed home to the open arms of middle Ireland?

Annasopra

Amalgam wrote: »

Members of his extended family are, 'persons of interest' to the security forces in the UK. This has been covered in the UK press.

Links?