Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

SnakePlissken

wonderfullife wrote: »

We're an extremely low risk target for radical Islamists, that's borne out by the fact they have never attacked us.

But they have attacked us!! Irish citizens have lost their lives in Tunisia, New York, London and Turkey, Islamic extremism bears a very real threat to us all, your shouts to the contrary are profane.

end of the road

SnakePlissken wrote: »

But they have attacked us!! Irish citizens have lost their lives in Tunisia, New York, London and Turkey, Islamic extremism bears a very real threat to us all, your shouts to the contrary are profane.

they aren't as islamic extremism hasn't directly attacked this country. there have been no islamic extremist attacks in ireland.

The_Kew_Tour

Omackeral wrote: »

Well Skyline I'll leave the thread but on my way out I'm saying this. A poster accused me of being racist when I have never once on Boards ever said anything racist.... because I'm not racist. Not xenophobic either. So excuse me if I bite back a bit. To say I contributed nothing to the thread is untrue in my opinion also. I made plenty of legitimate points and counter arguments. That's the premise of discussion I would have thought.

My post history will show a very moderate to mixed stance on Islam and indeed on all religion. Anyway, I'm
out.

+1

To be fair even some very good posters who have had any concern have been called everything under the Sun.

I have been called the usual stuff too without any shed of evidence that I am what they call me.

Its funny cause I have never been called Anti Irish as I have called out the Scum in this country who have bombed in this Island and in England.

Some claims against this chap have been false and totally unfounded, but a quick youtube and google search also points to a very questionable history fo him and his family. Irish people are funny bunch. Whats considered Left or Liberal here would be considered very right in Europe.

First Up

take everything wrote: »

wonderfullife wrote: »

Conversely the fact all the Halawa kids sound like extras from Fair City means what? That they are REALLY Dubs?

This is a stupid, stupid debate. They were born and bred here, they didn't move over for work. Ibrahim is about as integrated as it gets he's mad for the GAA and he writes rap music with curse words apparently.

Irish people trying to rap should be a deportation offence so I can support anyone wanting him gone on those grounds :pac:

Him being into rap and GAA should be neither here nor there. But if you do think that's important did you see what the Nice truck driver Islamist that mowed down 100 or so people looked like before the attack. Shades, well dressed, tanned on the beach etc.
Or the Belgium bombers who owned the bar. They were into their drinking. Great couple of lads altogether.
Jihadi John: serious student.
Or the 911 hijackers. Into their porn and whatnot. Just another couple of lads.

Want has struck me about all these guys (apart from the odd headbanger like Richard Reid, the shoe bomber) is that they are not scraggy bearded and mad-eyed. They are frustrated "westernised" young fellas who have never left this ideology behind. In fact, not unlike school shooters in the US, except fuelled by a toxic ideology (which you claim to not be concerned about- as you say yourself: ”LOL” indeed).

So if you want to invoke GAA/just one of the lads etc, this is actually not a good argument for him being of less concern.

The reference was to "isolationist enclaves".

Atoms for Peace

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't as islamic extremism hasn't directly attacked this country. there have been no islamic extremist attacks in ireland.

Ireland means nothing to the Islamists, just like it meant nothing to every other crackpot ideology such as the Nazis and Bolsheviks, we're just the arse end of the UK to them.
I cant imagine any organised group would bother, much better to keep a low profile and use the place as a base for fund raising.

VinLieger

end of the road wrote: »

indeed. just like all the hysterical ranters about mudlimz thanking the posts of otherh hysterical ranters tells you all you need to know.

Quick search of the thread reveals the only person to use the incredibly offensive term "mudlimz" was yourself but don't let that stop you

MadYaker

wonderfullife wrote: »

I never "defended" the MB and congratulations on your inability to read.

I 100% defended anyone who wants to have violent, weirdo left-wing, right-wing, no-wing ideas and beliefs. If someone wants to believe in slaughtering rabbits with a screwdriver, FINE! Weirdo belief but fine.

I have serious problems if they a) go slaughter rabbits with a screwdriver or b) try coerce others into doing so.

This is really rather simple. Ibrahim committed no crime. What is being thrown against him all thread is that he *allegedly* holds a violent belief system. That is NOT a crime and is NOT a problem.

People all over the world believe in fooked-up sh1t. Grand. Just don't break any laws.

The guy went over there to support the muslim brotherhood who, if they had their way, would stone women to death for having sex outside of marriage and would make homosexuality illegal and probably punishable by death. And you don't think having people in this country who support that belief system is a problem? Wow.

I don't know for sure that this Halawa fella actually buys into that. But there is ample evidence that he went to Egypt to support this organisation so I think the police need to talk to him. There is no room in our society for people who hold values like that. Thankfully most muslims don't. All the muslims I know through college and work have been in Ireland for a good few years now and they think this guy is a nutter and an idiot for going over there. Truth be told they actually prefer living in a more liberal society where they can drink and smoke and have casual sex with whoever they want and not be judged or locked up or shunned by their families. They don't tell their families back home what they are really at here. Some of them are even married to christian women and haven't told their parents. Some of them are my friends and I'm delighted they are here.

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't racism to ask legitimate questions about why this guy went there in the first place, because it wasn't for a holiday. But really I don't think this guy is a threat, he was young and niave when he decided to go over (although why is parents didn't stop him is another question....) and id imagine his time in an egyptian gulag has probably sobered him up quite a bit and I doubt he'll be rushing back. His imprisonment was a major violation of his human rights and I'm glad he's free to return home.

Skylinehead

Omackeral wrote: »

Well Skyline I'll leave the thread but on my way out I'm saying this. A poster accused me of being racist when I have never once on Boards ever said anything racist.... because I'm not racist. Not xenophobic either. So excuse me if I bite back a bit. To say I contributed nothing to the thread is untrue in my opinion also. I made plenty of legitimate points and counter arguments. That's the premise of discussion I would have thought.

My post history will show a very moderate to mixed stance on Islam and indeed on all religion. Anyway, I'm out.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

+1

To be fair even some very good posters who have had any concern have been called everything under the Sun.

I have been called the usual stuff too without any shed of evidence that I am what they call me.

Its funny cause I have never been called Anti Irish as I have called out the Scum in this country who have bombed in this Island and in England.

Some claims against this chap have been false and totally unfounded, but a quick youtube and google search also points to a very questionable history fo him and his family. Irish people are funny bunch. Whats considered Left or Liberal here would be considered very right in Europe.

Direct accusations of racism, if unfounded (I haven't seen much actual racism if any in this thread) are not on. Report them please (don't respond to this) - apologies if that's already the case, we have may have missed them. This thread is a mess.

First Up

MadYaker wrote: »

wonderfullife wrote: »

I never "defended" the MB and congratulations on your inability to read.

I 100% defended anyone who wants to have violent, weirdo left-wing, right-wing, no-wing ideas and beliefs. If someone wants to believe in slaughtering rabbits with a screwdriver, FINE! Weirdo belief but fine.

I have serious problems if they a) go slaughter rabbits with a screwdriver or b) try coerce others into doing so.

This is really rather simple. Ibrahim committed no crime. What is being thrown against him all thread is that he *allegedly* holds a violent belief system. That is NOT a crime and is NOT a problem.

People all over the world believe in fooked-up sh1t. Grand. Just don't break any laws.

The guy went over there to support the muslim brotherhood who, if they had their way, would stone women to death for having sex outside of marriage and would make homosexuality illegal and probably punishable by death. And you don't think having people in this country who support that belief system is a problem? Wow.

I don't know for sure that this Halawa fella actually buys into that. But there is ample evidence that he went to Egypt to support this organisation so I think the police need to talk to him. There is no room in our society for people who hold values like that. Thankfully most muslims don't. All the muslims I know through college and work have been in Ireland for a good few years now and they think this guy is a nutter and an idiot for going over there. Truth be told they actually prefer living in a more liberal society where they can drink and smoke and have casual sex with whoever they want and not be judged or locked up or shunned by their families. They don't tell their families back home what they are really at here. Some of them are even married to christian women and haven't told their parents. Some of them are my friends and I'm delighted they are here.

The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't racism to ask legitimate questions about why this guy went there in the first place, because it wasn't for a holiday. But really I don't think this guy is a threat, he was young and niave when he decided to go over (although why is parents didn't stop him is another question....) and id imagine his time in an egyptian gulag has probably sobered him up quite a bit and I doubt he'll be rushing back. His imprisonment was a major violation of his human rights and I'm glad he's free to return home.

He went to Egypt on a family holiday after doing his Leaving Cert.  While he was there, the government was deposed by the army and he joined a protest about that.
If you have "ample evidence" that he did otherwise, please share.

CruelCoin

Deleted User wrote: »

Can anyone say they never made mistakes or had poor judgment at that age? He was only a teenager

"I went to Egypt and addressed a large crowd at a rally for a fundamentalist islamist group"

Oh the fun we had as children!

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BattleCorp

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't as islamic extremism hasn't directly attacked this country. there have been no islamic extremist attacks in ireland.

There have been no Islamic extremist attacks in Ireland - YET

end of the road

BattleCorp wrote: »

There have been no Islamic extremist attacks in Ireland - YET

effectively what i said.

optogirl

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/09/19/ibrahim-halawa-comment-section-trial-delayed-for-the-25th-time/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article


THIS IS A THING OF BEAUTY

Arsemageddon

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

They have been behind numerous plots including the assassination of Sadat.

Sadat was killed by a group called Islamic Jihad or another organisation called the Islamic Group (its still not clear which). They had the support of numerous Egyptian army officers who were furious with Sadat for making peace with Israel.

Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Group are separate organisations to the Islamic Brotherhood.

MadYaker

First Up wrote: »

He went to Egypt on a family holiday after doing his Leaving Cert.  While he was there, the government was deposed by the army and he joined a protest about that.
If you have "ample evidence" that he did otherwise, please share.

A family holiday without his parents for 3 months to a country where there was obvious political turmoil and considering the links his father has to the muslim brotherhood who were just kicked out of power in a violent revolution it would seem an odd choice of holiday destination. Id like to know why him and his sisters felt the need to get involved in such a dangerous situation at such a young age, without the guidance of their parents in a country they've never lived in. Id also like to know why their parents thought this was a good idea.

You honestly believe it was just another normal LC holiday? Like the boyos going to Aiya Napa for a week, come off it.

I've been a liberal left winger all my life and still am, does this make me a racist now?

Barry Badrinath

First Up wrote: »

He went to Egypt on a family holiday after doing his Leaving Cert.  While he was there, the government was deposed by the army and he joined a protest about that.
If you have "ample evidence" that he did otherwise, please share.

LOL.

mynamejeff

Doesn't acquitted suggest that he was tried , the evidence was heard and he was found to be innocent of any wrong doing ?

i thought that there was no evidence heard ?

so in reality we dont really know about his innocent or guilt.

Bearing in mind that the legal system in Ireland and the Egypt are very different . As different a Spain and Italy for example

MadYaker

The "legal system" in Egypt is a rotten corrupt mess from top to bottom as evidenced by the treatment of this man. Whether they acquitted him, dropped the charges, or convicted him is irrelevant and I wouldn't read anything into it.

First Up

CruelCoin wrote:

"I went to Egypt and addressed a large crowd at a rally for a fundamentalist islamist group"

A more accurate and complete version might read; "I went to Egypt to spend the summer with my extended family, as I have done several times before. While there the government was overthrown by the army and I took part in a rally protesting this denial of democracy".

First Up

Senor Fancy Pants wrote:

LOL.

Pretty feeble evidence.

Barry Badrinath

First Up wrote: »

Pretty feeble evidence.

Pretty naive account of events.

Plus, video evidence of his participation in MB protests.....what more evidence do you need?

MadYaker

First Up wrote: »

A more accurate and complete version might read; "I went to Egypt to spend the summer with my extended family, as I have done several times before. While there the government was overthrown by the army and I took part in a rally protesting this denial of democracy".

You are being intentionally disengenous. The beginings of the revolution had started long before the Halawas decided to get involved.

Do you not think it is strange that his parents would send their children to a country where there is a good chance that widespread violence is about to break out? His father has been linked to the muslim brotherhood in the past who were the ones being removed from power so it was obvious that this was a very dangerous place for his family to be. Why do you think he let them go?

Also, there was nothing democratic about Mohammad Morsi's government.

riffmongous

mynamejeff wrote: »

Doesn't acquitted suggest that he was tried , the evidence was heard and he was found to be innocent of any wrong doing ?

i thought that there was no evidence heard ?

so in reality we dont really know about his innocent or guilt.

Bearing in mind that the legal system in Ireland and the Egypt are very different . As different a Spain and Italy for example

Well there were other people found guilty at the same trial. As far as I can understand it no evidence was heard because there wasn't any.

On Monday, the court in Wadi al-Natrun handed out 43 life sentences, while 399 other people were sentenced to between five and 15 years in prison. Fifty-two, including Halawa and his sisters, were acquitted.

end of the road

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Pretty naive account of events.

or more likely a factual account of events.

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Plus, video evidence of his participation in MB protests.....what more evidence do you need?

what more evidence of what do we need? nobody denied he attended the protests. the protests were over the removal of a democratically elected government. a government we wouldn't particularly like to live under (mind you what is there in egypt isn't any better really) and i wouldn't want to live under it but that's neither here nor there.

MadYaker wrote: »

Also, there was nothing democratic about Mohammad Morsi's government.

sure, but that isn't the point. we wouldn't like to live under them but it seems that enough egyptians did.

MadYaker

The protests were in support of the Muslim Brotherhood. It was widely reported all over the news at the time. They were the ones rioting in the streets and being shot by the army. It was on the BBC.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

He was only a kid of 17

17 is young and not an adult but at that age you are more than accountable for your actions, 17 isn't a baby that doesn't know theyre doing.

buck65

wakka12 wrote: »

17 is young and not an adult but at that age you are more than accountable for your actions, 17 isn't a baby that doesn't know theyre doing.

Well I'm not the person I was when I was 17, looking back I hadn't a clue. But thank God I feel I am a better person now. Give the man a chance he has suffered enough. At least he stood up for what he believes and put his life in danger something I've never had to do thankfully, and I'd imagine neither have you.

Really what do you or I know about it? You can cite groups and differences but that country is a mess.

BPKS

There was a very balanced piece about Ibrahim Halawa on the Last Word now with Matt, Fintan O Toole and Baz from TV.

JP Liz V1

TV3 news suggesting government sending private plane for him

VinLieger

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

TV3 news suggesting government sending private plane for him

I hope this is a joke, i cant tell anymore