Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

Kimbot

smelly sock wrote: »

Your sister loved my facial......

MOD There are to be no more comments of this type in this thread again, if it happens again the thread will be closed and more bans and cards will be issued.

smelly sock, don't post in this thread when you return.

Kimbot

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Lol Brilliant! I like to play a little game of “I bet EOTR has thanked that post” game I can usually spot a post he would thank!

MOD I like to play a little game called "How many will my ban hammer slay today", calling out/naming others in the thread in this manner is not acceptable. Its borderline bullying so everybody knock it out. If anyone has an issue with a post use the report post feature.

First Up

Jawgap wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

The family spent three weeks in jail after they left the mosque.

....because they turned down the deal!!

The procedure was they were to be escorted from the mosque......checked for weapons and have their ID and documents checked then be free to go. Two other groups had processed out this way without incident, but they chose to stay......but at least they took heed of the advice to stop making videos and speeches.

I don't dispute that they made some poor decisions and contributed to their situation, albeit in a fraught and chaotic situation.  That doesn't qualify them as terrorists, Islamo-fascists or any of the other accusations being thrown around here.   Four years in jail was a high price for the lad to pay, especially as they had no evidence against him.  Apart from the discomfort and threat of severe punishment hanging over him, it has messed up his education and deprived him of what should have been  a time of  fun and discovery.  I have enormous sympathy for him; he won't get those years back.
Where he goes from here remains to be seen. No doubt he will get a lot of media exposure and attention and I hope he handles it well.  But above all I hope he gets the chance to resume the normal life he had before all this started.

Richard Hillman

The media have changed the story from Government Jet to Private Jet after they realised the Government Jet was sold. Fake news.

dav3

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whilst the Mark Humphreys blog can be derided and pooh-pooh'd,it contains the only actual footage and aural recordings of what the Hawala's were actually engaging in whilst on "Holidays" in Egypt.

This is not about the Halawas, it's about one Halawa.

At least we can all agree that he didn't destroy his passport.

Where has the rumour that he is associated with the muslim brotherhood come from? The only place that I can find where this rumour originated from, is the blogger's. This blog is the only website people refer to when discussing this rumour. No other website has put forward, or attempted to put forward any evidence claiming he's part of the muslim brotherhood or at least pro-muslim brotherhood.

Has the blogger deleted this evidence? I cannot find the part that unequivocally links Ibrahim Halawa to the mulslim brotherhood.

Before we hang him from the big old hanging tree upon his return, can we at least see some credible evidence that proves his guilt?

Woodville56

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The media have changed the story from Government Jet to Private Jet after they realised the Government Jet was sold. Fake news.

Private or government jet - same difference , taxpayer pays ! In whose name are they doing this ?? The liberal luvvies who are applauding this waste of taxpayers money are, I bet, the same ones protesting about water charges and quality of hotel accommodation for the homeless etc etc. If Varadker & co are sending a private plane to take this guy home they're even more out of touch with the vast majority of public opinion on this issue than I though. It's terrible to have to cut special needs assistant and home support services but a private jet for Mr Halawa is deemed a priority - really ? Why can't he fly on a scheduled flight , same as the rest of us when we're on "holidays"

Woodville56

dav3 wrote: »

AlekSmart wrote: »

Whilst the Mark Humphreys blog can be derided and pooh-pooh'd,it contains the only actual footage and aural recordings of what the Hawala's were actually engaging in whilst on "Holidays" in Egypt.

This is not about the Halawas, it's about one Halawa.

At least we can all agree that he didn't destroy his passport.

Where has the rumour that he is associated with the muslim brotherhood come from? The only place that I can find where this rumour originated from, is the blogger's. This blog is the only website people refer to when discussing this rumour. No other website has put forward, or attempted to put forward any evidence claiming he's part of the muslim brotherhood or at least pro-muslim brotherhood.

Has the blogger deleted this evidence? I cannot find the part that unequivocally links Ibrahim Halawa to the mulslim brotherhood.

Before we hang him from the big old hanging tree upon his return, can we at least see some credible evidence that proves his guilt?

Shouldn't be a problem for him publically refuting the activities of radical Islam or the Muslim Brotherhood and admitting he was foolish getting involved in the political upheaval of another country then? Most Irish folk would feel that way ?

Jawgap

First Up wrote: »

I don't dispute that they made some poor decisions and contributed to their situation, albeit in a fraught and chaotic situation.  That doesn't qualify them as terrorists, Islamo-fascists or any of the other accusations being thrown around here.   Four years in jail was a high price for the lad to pay, especially as they had no evidence against him.  Apart from the discomfort and threat of severe punishment hanging over him, it has messed up his education and deprived him of what should have been  a time of  fun and discovery.  I have enormous sympathy for him; he won't get those years back.
Where he goes from here remains to be seen. No doubt he will get a lot of media exposure and attention and I hope he handles it well.  But above all I hope he gets the chance to resume the normal life he had before all this started.

I wasn't calling them anything except stupid (stupid for getting wrapped up in the demos and extra-stupid for not taking the deal brokered by the ambassador).......and yes, 4 years in prison is incredibly harsh for teenage stupidity.

Personally, and I've no evidence to advance in support of this view, I think he refused the safe passage deal so he could burnish his credentials as a leader and spokesperson back in Ireland. I think he also gravely miscalculated - thinking he might only have to endure a few weeks detention before returning to Dublin as a "veteran" of the protests.

I'm glad he's been released - both for him and his family.

My objection is he's being cast as some kind of political prisoner of conscience or a secular political saint while his own contribution to his situation is completely glossed over.

As for evidence, no one knows what, if any evidence, they had against him so I don't know how anyone can say there was no evidence.

First Up

Jawgap wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

I don't dispute that they made some poor decisions and contributed to their situation, albeit in a fraught and chaotic situation.  That doesn't qualify them as terrorists, Islamo-fascists or any of the other accusations being thrown around here.   Four years in jail was a high price for the lad to pay, especially as they had no evidence against him.  Apart from the discomfort and threat of severe punishment hanging over him, it has messed up his education and deprived him of what should have been  a time of  fun and discovery.  I have enormous sympathy for him; he won't get those years back.
Where he goes from here remains to be seen. No doubt he will get a lot of media exposure and attention and I hope he handles it well.  But above all I hope he gets the chance to resume the normal life he had before all this started.

I wasn't calling them anything except stupid (stupid for getting wrapped up in the demos and extra-stupid for not taking the deal brokered by the ambassador).......and yes, 4 years in prison is incredibly harsh for teenage stupidity.

Personally, and I've no evidence to advance in support of this view, I think he refused the safe passage deal so he could burnish his credentials as a leader and spokesperson back in Ireland. I think he also gravely miscalculated - thinking he might only have to endure a few weeks detention before returning to Dublin as a "veteran" of the protests.

I'm glad he's been released - both for him and his family.

My objection is he's being cast as some kind of political prisoner of conscience or a secular political saint while his own contribution to his situation is completely glossed over.

As for evidence, no one knows what, if any evidence, they had against him so I don't know how anyone can say there was no evidence.

Some people have called him a lot more than being stupid (or foolish, or immature, or hot-headed, or carried away in the heat of the moment.)  He was promised safe passage on the word of the Irish ambassador but not by anyone else.  Seeing as the same army that was surrounding the mosque had killed 900 protesters  a few days earlier, I can understand their skepticism.  Maybe that was unwise, but it was understandable.  And "safe passage" extended only to leaving the mosque - nothing else.
I think if there had been evidence, the prosecution would have put it forward.  They had four years to find it and didn't so I think we can safely say there wasn't any.

mariaalice

Jawgap wrote: »

I wasn't calling them anything except stupid (stupid for getting wrapped up in the demos and extra-stupid for not taking the deal brokered by the ambassador).......and yes, 4 years in prison is incredibly harsh for teenage stupidity.

Personally, and I've no evidence to advance in support of this view, I think he refused the safe passage deal so he could burnish his credentials as a leader and spokesperson back in Ireland. I think he also gravely miscalculated - thinking he might only have to endure a few weeks detention before returning to Dublin as a "veteran" of the protests.

I'm glad he's been released - both for him and his family.

My objection is he's being cast as some kind of political prisoner of conscience or a secular political saint while his own contribution to his situation is completely glossed over.

As for evidence, no one knows what, if any evidence, they had against him so I don't know how anyone can say there was no evidence.

He is not he is mostly being portrayed as a teenager who did something stupid most probably inspired by his wider family very much in the mould of some teenager from Belfast going to London in the 1970s and getting involved in the fringes of the IRA.

First Up

All he did was attend a protest about the killing of nearly 900 protesters by the army and the overthrow of the elected government.  That isn't being on the fringes of anything and the courts didn't find that he did anything else.

BillyBobBS

Woodville56 wrote: »

Private or government jet - same difference , taxpayer pays ! In whose name are they doing this ?? The liberal luvvies who are applauding this waste of taxpayers money are, I bet, the same ones protesting about water charges and quality of hotel accommodation for the homeless etc etc. If Varadker & co are sending a private plane to take this guy home they're even more out of touch with the vast majority of public opinion on this issue than I though. It's terrible to have to cut special needs assistant and home support services but a private jet for Mr Halawa is deemed a priority - really ? Why can't he fly on a scheduled flight , same as the rest of us when we're on "holidays"

It's all about virtue signalling. "Look at us Irish over here, look at how liberal, free and fair we are".

Yet at the same time our health service is a disgrace and we can't house our own citizens.

#leftielogic

Thundercats Ho

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is there a link to this blog or could somebody actually tell me what he was doing in Egypt at the time of his detainment. I find it disgusting that the Irish taxpayer is going to foot the bill to fly him home.

He's an Irish Citizen, why wouldn't we help bring an Irish citizen home, when they're in trouble?

punisher5112

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

He's an Irish Citizen, why wouldn't we help bring an Irish citizen home, when they're in trouble?

He in no way needs help.

The family has plenty of money.

He can get a flight home or the boat no issues.

OnDraught

BillyBobBS wrote: »

It's all about virtue signalling. "Look at us Irish over here, look at how liberal, free and fair we are".

Yet at the same time our health service is a disgrace and we can't house our own citizens.

#leftielogic

This is the dumbest post I've read on boards in 15 years. We have a right wing government ruling over the entirety of the biggest housing crises the state has seen and there's a hashtag insinuating it's the "left's" fault. Clown.

end of the road

Omackeral wrote: »

You're right. There's no racism there because Islam isn't a race.

For the record, people saying give him pork are morons and nothing but disrespectful idiots.

islam is not a race does not get people out of being racist, as religion can be a reason to attack people on the basis of the colour of their skin or other racially motivated reasons.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I don't care if he thinks he is from Egypt or wherever that's his decision and I respect that. My gripe really today is with the Irish Government and it really smacks in the face of the lower income person or anybody who finds it hard to gain access to medical care in this country. We are so quick to send a plane out for him, but what about the poor Children who have to go abroad but cannot afford it. The lad can get to Dublin via London, will it really kill him?

Yes for once will someone actually think of the Children.

the issue of ibraham makes no difference to the issues you mention as there is money to go toards all those issues. it just isn't government policy to pay to send children abroad for treatment and as much as that is wrong, nothing will change that.

Jawgap

First Up wrote: »

Some people have called him a lot more than being stupid (or foolish, or immature, or hot-headed, or carried away in the heat of the moment.)  He was promised safe passage on the word of the Irish ambassador but not by anyone else.  Seeing as the same army that was surrounding the mosque had killed 900 protesters  a few days earlier, I can understand their skepticism.  Maybe that was unwise, but it was understandable.  And "safe passage" extended only to leaving the mosque - nothing else.
I think if there had been evidence, the prosecution would have put it forward.  They had four years to find it and didn't so I think we can safely say there wasn't any.

again, not true.......the ambassador brokered the deal with a brigadier in the interior ministry......then they both tried, independently of each other, to try to raise the Halawas to tell them what was happening. When they did eventually they refused the deal.......

......and the safe passage arrangements was not just safe passage from the mosque, it was safe passage to the custody of the ambassador.

....and it doesn't follow that evidence will be automatically advanced......for example the prosecuting authorities may wish to protect sources or methods of gathering evidence......they may also be glad to see the back of him and the easiest way to do that might be to not make a case, especially if Egyptian law doesn't allow for a nolle prosequi to be made.

Woodville56

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is there a link to this blog or could somebody actually tell me what he was doing in Egypt at the time of his detainment. I find it disgusting that the Irish taxpayer is going to foot the bill to fly him home.

He's an Irish Citizen, why wouldn't we help bring an Irish citizen home, when they're in trouble?

But he will be free to leave on release - why can't his family pay for his flight home on a scheduled flight ? Loads of Irish end up abroad and "in trouble" but does the taxpayer end up chartering a jet to bring them home ? If repatriation is needed and beyond the family's scope, usually it's a community effort that funds it - not the taxpayer. Hasn't the taxpayer already funded the numerous consular visits and support already afforded this gentleman ?

Jawgap

mariaalice wrote: »

He is not he is mostly being portrayed as a teenager who did something stupid most probably inspired by his wider family very much in the mould of some teenager from Belfast going to London in the 1970s and getting involved in the fringes of the IRA.

Is that narrative consistent with Amnesty declaring him a "prisoner of conscience"?

Ibrahim is a Prisoner of Conscience detained solely for peacefully exercising his right to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.

First Up

Jawgap wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Some people have called him a lot more than being stupid (or foolish, or immature, or hot-headed, or carried away in the heat of the moment.)  He was promised safe passage on the word of the Irish ambassador but not by anyone else.  Seeing as the same army that was surrounding the mosque had killed 900 protesters  a few days earlier, I can understand their skepticism.  Maybe that was unwise, but it was understandable.  And "safe passage" extended only to leaving the mosque - nothing else.
I think if there had been evidence, the prosecution would have put it forward.  They had four years to find it and didn't so I think we can safely say there wasn't any.

again, not true.......the ambassador brokered the deal with a brigadier in the interior ministry......then they both tried, independently of each other, to try to raise the Halawas to tell them what was happening. When they did eventually they refused the deal.......

......and the safe passage arrangements was not just safe passage from the mosque, it was safe passage to the custody of the ambassador.

....and it doesn't follow that evidence will be automatically advanced......for example the prosecuting authorities may wish to protect sources or methods of gathering evidence......they may also be glad to see the back of him and the easiest way to do that might be to not make a case, especially if Egyptian law doesn't allow for a nolle prosequi to be made.

[font=DINWeb-Bold, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]‘If you leave, we will kill you’[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]What happened next remains in dispute two years on. Irish officials say safe passage was guaranteed to the ambassador and the Irish government, and that it would have been guaranteed to the Halawas in person. Under the arrangement, the siblings would be taken from the scene, searched, have their records checked and then be released.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Irish officials say two groups had already left the mosque and that the deal was explained to the Halawas, but that their phone kept ringing out when the brigadier tried to call them to arrange their exit.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]However, the family says there was no such thing as safe passage, given the confusion at the scene and the fact that the mosque was surrounded by police and angry local residents.[/font]


[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]“We said, the army is outside and they’re pointing to us, saying, if you leave the mosque we will kill you,” says Somaia. “So we said to them, can anyone from the embassy come and take us? They said, it’s not safe for us. So we replied, if you don’t think it’s safe for you, how would you think it’s safe for us?”[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Amnesty International, which has declared Ibrahim a prisoner of conscience, says it agrees safe passage was not an option and that it is “understandable” from “the video evidence and the teargas coming into the mosque as well as the sound of gunfire outside, that people would fear for their own lives if they were to come out of the mosque at this point.”[/font]

mariaalice

Amnesty can say anything they like it neither makes it true or untrue.

The department of foreign affairs doesn't comment much and even if do its very neutral. .

The reality is that he spent the last 4 years fraternizing with 500 Islamic extremists in prison. If he wasn't already then it's very likely he has been radicalized. Is it safe to let him back into the country?

Donal55

Woodville56 wrote: »

But he will be free to leave on release - why can't his family pay for his flight home on a scheduled flight ? Loads of Irish end up abroad and "in trouble" but does the taxpayer end up chartering a jet to bring them home ? If repatriation is needed and beyond the family's scope, usually it's a community effort that funds it - not the taxpayer. Hasn't the taxpayer already funded the numerous consular visits and support already afforded this gentleman ?

Correct. Plenty of dead and injured Irish throughout the world and parents, next of kin are left to take them home.

I just emailed my local TDs on this very topic and thanked them all for this new initiative ie flying Paddies home when they get into difficulties. Another little job for the Aer Corp to undertake.

Jawgap

First Up wrote: »

[font=DINWeb-Bold, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]‘If you leave, we will kill you’[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]What happened next remains in dispute two years on. Irish officials say safe passage was guaranteed to the ambassador and the Irish government, and that it would have been guaranteed to the Halawas in person. Under the arrangement, the siblings would be taken from the scene, searched, have their records checked and then be released.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Irish officials say two groups had already left the mosque and that the deal was explained to the Halawas, but that their phone kept ringing out when the brigadier tried to call them to arrange their exit.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]However, the family says there was no such thing as safe passage, given the confusion at the scene and the fact that the mosque was surrounded by police and angry local residents.[/font]


[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]“We said, the army is outside and they’re pointing to us, saying, if you leave the mosque we will kill you,” says Somaia. “So we said to them, can anyone from the embassy come and take us? They said, it’s not safe for us. So we replied, if you don’t think it’s safe for you, how would you think it’s safe for us?”[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Amnesty International, which has declared Ibrahim a prisoner of conscience, says it agrees safe passage was not an option and that it is “understandable” from “the video evidence and the teargas coming into the mosque as well as the sound of gunfire outside, that people would fear for their own lives if they were to come out of the mosque at this point.”[/font]

Well of course they'd say that.....it's in their interest to justify on an after-the-fact basis their failure to act!!!

What do you expect they were going to do? Turn around and say the officials did a good job brokering our release but we decided to stay regardless?

Btw, if what they were saying was true, how did the other groups get through the cordon?

end of the road

Woodville56 wrote: »

Shouldn't be a problem for him publically refuting the activities of radical Islam or the Muslim Brotherhood and admitting he was foolish getting involved in the political upheaval of another country then? Most Irish folk would feel that way ?

not his job to publically do anything. it would be more pandering to the social media types or the publically hang m brigade.

Jawgap wrote: »

I wasn't calling them anything except stupid (stupid for getting wrapped up in the demos and extra-stupid for not taking the deal brokered by the ambassador).......and yes, 4 years in prison is incredibly harsh for teenage stupidity.

Personally, and I've no evidence to advance in support of this view, I think he refused the safe passage deal so he could burnish his credentials as a leader and spokesperson back in Ireland. I think he also gravely miscalculated - thinking he might only have to endure a few weeks detention before returning to Dublin as a "veteran" of the protests.

I'm glad he's been released - both for him and his family.

My objection is he's being cast as some kind of political prisoner of conscience or a secular political saint while his own contribution to his situation is completely glossed over.

As for evidence, no one knows what, if any evidence, they had against him so I don't know how anyone can say there was no evidence.

i'd say we can safely say there was no evidence against him.

BillyBobBS wrote: »

It's all about virtue signalling. "Look at us Irish over here, look at how liberal, free and fair we are".

Yet at the same time our health service is a disgrace and we can't house our own citizens.

#leftielogic

it really isn't. virtue signalling doesn't happen, it doesn't even exist. it's just another made up alt-right buzz word. the political establishment both right and left have done little to nothing for health or housing and they won't because it's not their policy to do so.

OnDraught wrote: »

This is the dumbest post I've read on boards in 15 years. We have a right wing government ruling over the entirety of the biggest housing crises the state has seen and there's a hashtag insunuating it's the "left's" fault. Clown.

yes, this in a nutshell. according to some posters, everything is the left's fault, and the right are this perfect lot who will come and rescue us and sort all our problems. of course, the facts as you stated are lost on these people.

Jawgap

end of the road wrote: »

i'd say we can safely say there was no evidence against him.

Excellent.......

......on what basis?

Gringo180

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

He's an Irish Citizen, why wouldn't we help bring an Irish citizen home, when they're in trouble?

What? I was robbed in Tenerife a few years back, no money, no passport, paying tax all my life, I dont recall the government getting me a private jet home let alone paying for my ticket. I had to get money sent to me via wester union and pay 25 euro for the emergency passport ffs.

end of the road

Jawgap wrote: »

Well of course they'd say that.....it's in their interest to justify on an after-the-fact basis their failure to act!!!

What do you expect they were going to do? Turn around and say the officials did a good job brokering our release but we decided to stay regardless?

or maybe it's actually accurate? i mean, we weren't there, so we will never know, but given the grave situation at the time i'd reccan both accounts are right. the irish government negotiated safe passage but safe passage wasn't actually deliverable.

Jawgap wrote: »

Btw, if what they were saying was true, how did the other groups get through the cordon?

maybe those groups got out before the situation got worse?

OnDraught

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The reality is that he spent the last 4 years fraternizing with 500 Islamic extremists in prison. If he wasn't already then it's very likely he has been radicalized. Is it safe to let him back into the country?

No, we should assume the worst and make him live in Navan.

dr.fuzzenstein

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The progressive left are defending Ibrahim because he is brown of skin nothing else.

Doesn't matter if he supports the MB, doesn't matter they believe homosexuality is a sin, women are seen as second class citizens.

What does matter is. "You're a racist bla, bla, bla".

Goes the other way too. He's brown, he's Muslim, his father is an Iman, OH NO, HE'S A TERRORIST!!!