Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

EMPunk

end of the road wrote: »

really? based on? ah shur look i know, it's always a bit annoying when you don't get the outcome you want. that's life.



facts from a blog with a particular agenda, written bya blogger who's (shall we say) credentials are rather low?




no, not at all. unless there is evidence that he has information then he doesn't have information. that's how the system works here, innocent until proven guilty.

No based on what i see day to day in dublin , on the news , the papers ,on facebook


Nope, facts from common sense facts , you see unlike you and your 17k posts i get out in the real world and dont live in an internet bubble with previously mentioned rose tinted spectacles glued onto my forehead




Innocent in a court of law until proven guilty fair enough , but that is not the same thing as knowing someone is guilty of something , for example the guards know full well who shot Eddie hutch last February but tell me who have they charged?

The system doesn't work here genius , one of if not the most flawed system in Europe in fact , anyone with half an ounce of knowledge on the subject would know that , but then again some among us studied for real degrees not poxy "arts" & "entrepreneur" degrees from clown professors at micky mouse uni's so who knows really

WinnyThePoo

Woodville56 wrote: »

Yep, it's quite unique all right - not many Irish people go on holiday to demonstrate in support of Muslim Brotherhood, and it as just awful being incarcerated for 4 year and not having a prison visit from his Dad or his sisters ? Quite unique I'd agree

Yep quite unique. Being impressed for... well nothing unique. You missed that part.

Mutant z

First Up wrote: »

Care to elaborate on the "close links" and terrorist group" bits?
I assume you know the MB was the elected government in Egypt and was overthrown by the military?  Does that count for anything?

They were well on their way to establishing an islamic sharia dictatorship which the people didnt want hence the uprising and overthrow of Morsi's brotherhood government, this is a group thats comiting genocide against the Coptic Christians, the MB are nothing but islamic vermin and were rightly overthrown.

First Up

Woodville56 wrote:

Did Mr Halawa and his siblings not have a "I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore Toto" moment when they went protesting in Egypt? It's naive and beyond belief to think that, given his Islamic background, he wouldn't have known of the risks involved in appearing on a protest platform in that volatile situation ? Yet we're expected to believe he was just a typical Irish las that got mixed up in something almost by accident ?? Really ? Yes, his prolonged incarceration without trial was wrong, but to play the innocent abroad card stretches credulity. I hope he clarifies what happened out there when he returns, Ireland inc has expounded so much energy and hot air with concern over his incarceration and his wellbeing, we deserve an explanation, if for nothing else other than a better understanding of his motivation and beliefs and also as a justification for the taxpayers money spent on consular assistance, his expected repatriation etc

Nobody has said he is a "typical Irish lad" who wandered into something by accident. He is from an Egyptian family and like many Egyptians was outraged by the overthrow of the elected government and the massacre of protesters.

I also look forward to hearing him recount his story.

jimmycrackcorm

BillyBobBS wrote:

He said he's been on here 15 years, so either he's telling porkies or well you know.....

We all know that what people write on the Internet is always the absolute truth.

EMPunk

First Up wrote: »

Nobody has said he is a "typical Irish lad" who wandered into something by accident. He is from an Egyptian family and like many Egyptians was outraged by the overthrow of the elected government and the massacre of protesters.

I also look forward to hearing him recount his story.

You should look into how he was "elected" yea

Did you know a quare amount of Iraqi people were "outraged" when "democratically" elected Saddam was ousted and sure wasn't he only sound lad

And yes over and over in this thread are people throwing the "hes Irish" card around as if its the get out of jail free card in monopoly , just because your Irish does not mean you are not a criminal or a terrorist or most of all it does not mean you are not a little ****head going there to cause some kind of trouble , ala the ****s here that pulled on celtic jerseys in the name of the republic to go wreck o connell street when them loyalist eejits were down

Atoms for Peace

Billy86 wrote: »

The join date on his account says 2017, so he could have had a different account previously.

I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul to waste

SnakePlissken

end of the road wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Nope, sorry, you're wrong.

i'm not wrong.

You are consistently wrong about a great many things.

I don't mind it actually, the day I feel in any way receptive to your viewpoint is the day I lament the loss of both my logic and sanity.

Woodville56

First Up wrote: »

Woodville56 wrote:

Did Mr Halawa and his siblings not have a "I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore Toto" moment when they went protesting in Egypt? It's naive and beyond belief to think that, given his Islamic background, he wouldn't have known of the risks involved in appearing on a protest platform in that volatile situation ? Yet we're expected to believe he was just a typical Irish las that got mixed up in something almost by accident ?? Really ? Yes, his prolonged incarceration without trial was wrong, but to play the innocent abroad card stretches credulity. I hope he clarifies what happened out there when he returns, Ireland inc has expounded so much energy and hot air with concern over his incarceration and his wellbeing, we deserve an explanation, if for nothing else other than a better understanding of his motivation and beliefs and also as a justification for the taxpayers money spent on consular assistance, his expected repatriation etc

Nobody has said he is a "typical Irish lad" who wandered into something by accident. He is from an Egyptian family and like many Egyptians was outraged by the overthrow of the elected government and the massacre of protesters.

I also look forward to hearing him recount his story.

Hope he tells us all how outraged he is about the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt by MB too !

First Up

EMPunk wrote:

You should look into how he was "elected" yea

Your point being?

EMPunk wrote:

Did you know a quare amount of Iraqi people were "outraged" when "democratically" elected Saddam was ousted and sure wasn't he only sound lad

About as ridiculous an analogy as could be imagined.

EMPunk wrote:

And yes over and over in this thread are people throwing the "hes Irish" card around as if its the get out of jail free card in monopoly , just because your Irish does not mean you are not a criminal or a terrorist or most of all it does not mean you are not a little ****head going there to cause some kind of trouble , ala the ****s here that pulled on celtic jerseys in the name of the republic to go wreck o connell street when them loyalist eejits were down

Nobody that I recall asked for anything other than that he receive due process in a reasonable timeframe. Four years is not a reasonable time frame.

I have no idea what people wearing celtic jerseys has to do with it.

OnDraught

BillyBobBS wrote: »

So you've been on Boards 15 years and made a grand total of 77 posts.

You know you can close an account and open a new one?

There's only so much boards I can take before I have to close it down and have a break.

It's going through a particularly daft vintage at the moment with the antimuslamic bedwetters that I thought I'd come back for the laugh.

First Up

Woodville56 wrote:

Hope he tells us all how outraged he is about the slaughter of Coptic Christians in Egypt by MB too !

A fair question.

EMPunk

First Up wrote: »

Your point being?



About as ridiculous an analogy as could be imagined.




Nobody that I recall asked for anything other than that he receive due process in a reasonable timeframe. Four years is not a reasonable time frame.

I have no idea what people wearing celtic jerseys has to do with it.

Reading this and your previous posts sums up the fact you do not have the fundamental brain capacity to engage in reasonable debate on this subject , honestly your posts make me want to bang my head off a wall they are such rhetorical mind numbing brainfarts , your whole basis is "well there no evidence of him doing anything wrong and he IS irish so he must be a saint" and your "im right your wrong" pseudo intellectual rebuttals

First Up

EMPunk wrote:

Reading this and your previous posts sums up the fact you do not have the fundamental brain capacity to engage in reasonable debate on this subject , honestly your posts make me want to bang my head off a wall they are such rhetorical mind numbing brainfarts , your whole basis is "well there no evidence of him doing anything wrong and he IS irish so he must be a saint" and your "im right your wrong" pseudo intellectual rebuttals

Thanks. Your surrender is accepted.

tayto lover

This was all about "little man trying to be big man" and it backfired on him.
Four years was a big price for such a silly mistake but he had his chance to leave and the "big man" took over again. He was banking on being a "big man" in the future.
He should pay his own way home.

twilight_singer

If RTE had any brains they would sign this lad and McCollum up for a reboot of the 'No Frontiers' travel show....

rgossip30

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

He's an Irish Citizen, why wouldn't we help bring an Irish citizen home, when they're in trouble?

What about other Irish citizens in similar circumstances do they get the same treatment . They equally entitled to the same help in this state of so called equality . This is the real issue .

First Up

rgossip30 wrote:

What about other Irish citizens in similar circumstances do they get the same treatment . They equally entitled to the same help in this state of so called equality . This is the real issue .

I agree. Any Irish citizen held for four years and whose case is thrown out without even going to trial should get similar treatment.

EMPunk

First Up wrote: »

I agree. Any Irish citizen held for four years and whose case is thrown out without even going to trial should get similar treatment.

Please for the love of god, moses , allah , budda , elvis , whoever , please do not pro create

Ash.J.Williams

rgossip30 wrote: »

What about other Irish citizens in similar circumstances do they get the same treatment . They equally entitled to the same help in this state of so called equality . This is the real issue .

Yes

Ash.J.Williams

EMPunk wrote: »

Please for the love of god, moses , allah , budda , elvis , whoever , please do not pro create

Likewise

weldoninhio

First Up wrote: »

I agree. Any Irish citizen held for four years and whose case is thrown out without even going to trial should get similar treatment.

Did you miss the part where he was on trial??

First Up

weldoninhio wrote:

Did you miss the part where he was on trial??

Case withdrawn with no evidence offered. You call that a trial?

mynamejeff

First Up wrote: »

Case withdrawn with no evidence offered. You call that a trial?

you know i made that point a few hundred posts ago and no one seems to have noticed.

No evidence was heard how can he be guilty or innocent in the Egyptian legal system ?

First Up

mynamejeff wrote:

No evidence was heard how can he be guilty or innocent in the Egyptian legal system ?

OK; he is neither.

deco nate

Did anyone ask how a 17 year old Irish kid that goes on holiday to see the family ends up at a protest of thousands of people, and ends up being on stage to talk to the protesters?

Is it like x factor and they have people going through applications, or is it like when someone you know gets you a job?

AlekSmart

First Up wrote: »

[font=DINWeb-Bold, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]‘If you leave, we will kill you’[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]What happened next remains in dispute two years on. Irish officials say safe passage was guaranteed to the ambassador and the Irish government, and that it would have been guaranteed to the Halawas in person. Under the arrangement, the siblings would be taken from the scene, searched, have their records checked and then be released.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Irish officials say two groups had already left the mosque and that the deal was explained to the Halawas, but that their phone kept ringing out when the brigadier tried to call them to arrange their exit.[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]However, the family says there was no such thing as safe passage, given the confusion at the scene and the fact that the mosque was surrounded by police and angry local residents.[/font]


[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]“We said, the army is outside and they’re pointing to us, saying, if you leave the mosque we will kill you,” says Somaia. “So we said to them, can anyone from the embassy come and take us? They said, it’s not safe for us. So we replied, if you don’t think it’s safe for you, how would you think it’s safe for us?”[/font]
[font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Amnesty International, which has declared Ibrahim a prisoner of conscience, says it agrees safe passage was not an option and that it is “understandable” from “the video evidence and the teargas coming into the mosque as well as the sound of gunfire outside, that people would fear for their own lives if they were to come out of the mosque at this point.”[/font]

Indeed it is "Still in dispute",robustly so,as so many "ordinary people" in Ireland have been reluctant to accept the Hawala narrative from the very beginning.

What is not at issue,is the fact that the Egyptian Authorities were open to the release of the Hawalas into the custody of the Irish Ambassador.

I,however keep returning to the reality of the final sentence of the first paragraph referring to the "angry local residents",who comprised Cairene residents largely pleased that the Military had moved so definitively against Morsi.

Perhaps the residents of the area were less than enthused at the strident intervention of some youthful Irish/Egyptians,arriving and loudly proclaiming their allegiance to,and support for,a Muslim Brotherhood regime which had managed to lose the confidence of those angry residents.

Just because the Hawala's say so,does not make it so.

From what can be deduced since the Military action,Egypt has managed to continue to exist and develop in a highly volatile region with a reasonable level of stability,which,it would appear,a great many Egyptians are happy enough to experience.

Embarking upon a crusade such as this family undertook,is not something to be simply brushed off as youthful enthusiasm,or a bit of the Irish Egyptian "craic".

The Hawala children may indeed have believed their own self-important pahlavah,and assumed that they would be welcomed with open arms by their former Countrymen,something which rather spectacularly failed to occur.

It most assuredly was not the fault of the Irish State,or it's servants,that the Hawalas experienced the rigours of the Egyptian Judicial process,which hopefully,if nothing else,will prevent them getting caught again ?

EMPunk

deco nate wrote: »

Did anyone ask how a 17 year old Irish kid that goes on holiday to see the family ends up at a protest of thousands of people, and ends up being on stage to talk to the protesters?

Is it like x factor and they have people going through applications, or is it like when someone you know gets you a job?

Yeah but when you ask completely logical and necessary questions like that you just get called a racist ect

All i can say is in all the holidays i went on as a teenager , i never found myself on a stage banging on about sharia law and islamic solidarity....

Might have found my way on stage at a few karaoke bars on the costa del sol but hardly the same is it:D

First Up

deco nate wrote:

Did anyone ask how a 17 year old Irish kid that goes on holiday to see the family ends up at a protest of thousands of people, and ends up being on stage to talk to the protesters?

I've read that a group called Egyptians Abroad for Democracy arranged it as part of the organised protests. He was one of a number who spoke.

AlekSmart

weldoninhio wrote: »

Did you miss the part where he was on trial??

Trial is correct.

Not a trial as we know it Jim,but nothing too unusual in the Middle East region.

It should also be noted that evidence was presented to,and considered by the court, as outlined by Charlie Flanagan in a letter to Dun Laoire/Rathdown Council back in April this year....Interestingly,it now transpires that the Irish State had retained additional Legal Representation over and above the various teams retained by or on behalf of the Family.

It's in PDF format,so here goes.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwj9qNLesLTWAhWTHsAKHS89CTYQFghTMAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fecouncil.dlrcoco.ie%3A9071%2Fdocuments%2Fs54205%2FLetter%2520from%2520Minister%2520Flanagan%2520in%2520response%2520to%2520letter%2520dated%252010%2520April%25202017%2520re%2520Ibrahim%2520Halawa.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEdSoosXwVad8H-ayJJiH65gotWLw