Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

murpho999

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I'd say that we are looking at multimillions at this stage.

Based on what?

People's man hours that would be paid anyway regardless of what they do.

weldoninhio

murpho999 wrote: »

You are wrong.

A court finds people guilty or not guilty.

Not guilty is the exact same as innocent.

You are just being pedantic for the sake of argument with no real valid point to make.

WRONG

You can be guilty of committing a crime, yet found not guilty in court. Is it that hard to understand?? I don't think there is any way to dumb it down another level for you.

homerjay2005

this is all over the RTE website, its bizzare the amount of coverage its getting.

somethign doesnt add up here, something isnt right and it doesnt sit well.

Nettle Soup

weldoninhio wrote: »

WRONG

You can be guilty of committing a crime, yet found not guilty in court. Is it that hard to understand?? I don't think there is any way to dumb it down another level for you.

why are you so bitter? what difference does it make to you?
what exactly do you think he is guilty of?

weldoninhio

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this is all over the RTE website, its bizzare the amount of coverage its getting.

somethign doesnt add up here, something isnt right and it doesnt sit well.

I'm sure once they've finished with Ibrahim they'll give just as much coverage to Ciaran Barry Duggan and Eanna Cochláin.

Nettle Soup

Woodville56 wrote: »

Ur right , we should have done more , like sent a SWAT team to rescue him or invaded Egypt maybe ? After all, 20,000 hours of our diplomatic and civil servant’s time working on his behalf, funded by the taxpayer is only tokenism , right ?

No that's just silly on your part.

If he was Heineken drinking, Leinster loving Tarquin with a strong D4 accent and pale white skin, the Irish government would have leaned on their considerable contacts even more and he would have been released sooner.

weldoninhio

Nettle Soup wrote: »

why are you so bitter? what difference does it make to you?
what exactly do you think he is guilty of?

I replied to a poster in here, but I'm talking in general terms.

Which is why i stated earlier that it "doesn't matter what charge, doesn't matter what defendant, doesn't matter what judge." Courts do not find people innocent.

gypsy79

Nettle Soup wrote: »

No that's just silly on your part.

If he was Heineken drinking, Leinster loving Tarquin with a strong D4 accent and pale white skin, the Irish government would have leaned on their considerable contacts even more and he would have been released sooner.

Why would someone from Dublin 4 be inciting trouble in Egypt. Have you even read the damning evidence of his families evil beliefs?

weldoninhio

Nettle Soup wrote: »

No that's just silly on your part.

If he was Heineken drinking, Leinster loving Tarquin with a strong D4 accent and pale white skin, the Irish government would have leaned on their considerable contacts even more and he would have been released sooner.

Like they have with Ciaran Barry Duggan and Eanna Cochláin??

BPKS

From this day forth, a national holiday should be held on October 20th.

It could be called Ibrahim Halawa Freedom day.

murpho999

weldoninhio wrote: »

WRONG

You can be guilty of committing a crime, yet found not guilty in court. Is it that hard to understand?? I don't think there is any way to dumb it down another level for you.

Well the courts which are the official bodies in countries' justice system find people guilty or not guilty.

If they declare a person as not guilty then that person remains innocent and has not committed a crime.

I would trust that more than an angry person with a bee in their bonnet posting on an internet discussion forun.

RustyNut

weldoninhio wrote: »

I replied to a poster in here, but I'm talking in general terms.

Which is why i stated earlier that it "doesn't matter what charge, doesn't matter what defendant, doesn't matter what judge." Courts do not find people innocent.

They are presumed innocent when they walk into court and are equally innocent walking out if they have been found not guilty.

Nettle Soup

gypsy79 wrote: »

Why would someone from Dublin 4 be inciting trouble in Egypt. Have you even read the damning evidence of his families evil beliefs?

No I have not read "the damning evidence of his families evil beliefs" and I don't intend to. God only knows what racist compiled that. He was arrested for taking part in a political protest. He was found not guilty. End of story.

I think what Egypt did amounts to a violation of human rights. 4 years without trial is wrong in any man's language.

10000maniacs

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this is all over the RTE website, its bizzare the amount of coverage its getting.

somethign doesnt add up here, something isnt right and it doesnt sit well.

I literally had to switch off Morning Ireland this morning.

gypsy79

Nettle Soup wrote: »

No I have not read "the damning evidence of his families evil beliefs" and I don't intend to. God only know what racist compiled that. He was arrested for taking part in a political protest. He was found not guilty.

I think what Egypt did amounts to a violation of human rights. 4 years without trial is wrong in any man's language.

A racist who compliled evidence of the Halawa family own racist beliefs. Can see why we would discount that

There is no point in arguing with people who are not willing to educate themselves

Gatling

Looking very healthy for the amount of torment he's been suffering

weldoninhio

RustyNut wrote: »

They are presumed innocent when they walk into court and are equally innocent walking out if they have been found not guilty.

So if i murder someone, but the courts find me not guilty, i'm innocent of that crime?? Strange logic.

givyjoe

weldoninhio wrote: »

So if i murder someone, but the courts find me not guilty, i'm innocent of that crime?? Strange logic.

Jesus, I mean.. can you seriously not see how that isn't a relevant example?

in that case the prosecution simply failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed the crime of which you are accused, when they brought you to trial. That begs the question, should a lesser charge have been brought, which would have secured a conviction, e.g. manslaughter over murder charge.

The difference here is, there was no trial and the charges were dropped. Likely because you know, there is no evidence of him actually having committed a crime.

Again, what crime did Halawa commit, which you believe he is not innocent of committing? You seem to be making the assumption that, simply because he was arrested, he must have committed an offence.

givyjoe

Gatling wrote: »

Looking very healthy for the amount of torment he's been suffering

So you think he's just been on a 4 year holiday, in an Egyptian jail then do you :rolleyes: ?

RustyNut

weldoninhio wrote: »

So if i murder someone, but the courts find me not guilty, i'm innocent of that crime?? Strange logic.

Are you trying to say that if you are found not guilty then you are guilty anyway?

weldoninhio

RustyNut wrote: »

Are you trying to say that if you are found not guilty then you are guilty anyway?

No, i'll repeat what i've said more than once since i first responded:

COURTS DO NOT FIND DEFENDANTS INNOCENT.

I never said if you are found not guilty that you are still guilty. I never said Ibrahim was guilty of anything.

No foreman of any jury, anywhere in the world stands up and announces "We find the defendant innocent", because there is no way the court could be 100% sure of this.

Hooks Golf Handicap

Well, if he's a few days to kill I reckon he should have a good protest against the regime, really leave it all on the pitch this time.

Or . . . . maybe not

Gatling

givyjoe wrote: »

So you think he's just been on a 4 year holiday, in an Egyptian jail then do you

Definitely doesn't look he's spent 4 years in an Egyptian hell hole of a prison ,

Been abused ,

Starved

And so on ,

You wouldn't think of it looking at the photos posted id have expected a lot worse ,

tomwaterford

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, i'll repeat what i've said more than once since i first responded:

COURTS DO NOT FIND DEFENDANTS INNOCENT.

I never said if you are found not guilty that you are still guilty. I never said Ibrahim was guilty of anything.

No foreman of any jury, anywhere in the world stands up and announces "We find the defendant innocent", because there is no way the court could be 100% sure of this.

It's basic human rights to be considered innocent until proven guilty though?

Easy Rod

Gatling wrote: »

Definitely doesn't look he's spent 4 years in an Egyptian hell hole of a prison ,

Been abused ,

Starved

And so on ,

You wouldn't think of it looking at the photos posted id have expected a lot worse ,

So what do you think he was doing for the past few years?

Gatling

Easy Rod wrote: »

So what do you think he was doing for the past few years?

Don't think his stay was as bad as Many on here and social media have repeatedly claimed with nothing to back it up

givyjoe

Gatling wrote: »

Definitely doesn't look he's spent 4 years in an Egyptian hell hole of a prison ,

Been abused ,

Starved

And so on ,

You wouldn't think of it looking at the photos posted id have expected a lot worse ,

And?! What exactly is your point?! Are you disappointed that he doesn't look like a broken man..? Would you prefer if he came out missing a few limbs? Or are you just peeved that he 'looks so well' despite having endured what it's alleged he endured?

Putting physical appearance aside, how do you know what his mental state is like? Can you imagine you might feel after 4 years in prison?

Easy Rod

weldoninhio wrote: »

No, i'll repeat what i've said more than once since i first responded:

COURTS DO NOT FIND DEFENDANTS INNOCENT.

I never said if you are found not guilty that you are still guilty. I never said Ibrahim was guilty of anything.

No foreman of any jury, anywhere in the world stands up and announces "We find the defendant innocent", because there is no way the court could be 100% sure of this.

The poster didn't say the court found him innocent, they said:

"The son has been acquited of all charges by Egyptian courts. That means he's officially innocent."

He's "officially innocent" because that is the default position that everyone has.

You are wrong and making up rubbish to suit your warped opinion of Halawa. Best of luck to you.

Billy86

weldoninhio wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

OK, I'll bite. What do you think it means?

It means that there was not enough evidence to convict, or the state did not want to pursue the evidence available.

For example, I could murder someone today, and leave no evidence. I may be seen in the area and arrested and put on trial. Due to the lack of evidence, i could be found not guilty. That wouldn't make me innocent, it would make me not guilty. Courts do not prove innocence. Its a fairly basic concept. OJ Simpson would be a real life example. He's not guilty of murdering his wife and her lover, but most people can see that he did.

Could you please complete the following:

"Innocent until proven ______."

elperello

Easy Rod wrote: »

The poster didn't say the court found him innocent, they said:

"The son has been acquited of all charges by Egyptian courts. That means he's officially innocent."

He's "officially innocent" because that is the default position that everyone has.

You are wrong and making up rubbish to suit your warped opinion of Halawa. Best of luck to you.

Bit shouty today!

In the eyes of the law the defendant walks into court innocent.
Following acquittal he walks out as he came in innocent.