Ibrahim Halawa acquited(mod warning in op-Heed it)

gozunda

First Up wrote: »

We may be at cross purposes here. I'm asking for someone to produce evidence that young Halawa did anything other than participate in what looks to have been a well-justified protest against military excess, including mass murder.

An obvious but basic misanthropic mistake of attempting to ascribe your world view. Please at least make some effort to inform yourself and read up on the Muslim Brotherhood and their connections to other ideologic Muslim terrorist related organisations ...

Start at: https://www.counterextremism.com/content/muslim-brotherhood%E2%80%99s-ties-isis-and-al-qaeda

In contast:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/22/only-option-is-to-kill-british-isis-fighters-in-syria-says-minister

First Up

gozunda wrote:

An obvious but basic misanthropic mistake of attempting to ascribe your world view. Please at least make some effort to inform yourself and read up on the Muslim Brotherhood and their connections to other ideologic Muslim terrorist related organisations ...

Thanks; my world view includes outfits like Counter Extremism but certainly doesn't stop there. The MB predates the existence of the modern Egyptian state by a fair few years and deserves to be described and evaluated in more detail than with simplistic cliches.

But I love this;
"connections to other ideologic (sic) Muslim terrorist related organisations."

Good man. Don't let any facts get in the way.

gozunda

First Up wrote: »

Thanks; my world view includes outfits like Counter Extremism but certainly doesn't stop there. The MB predates the existence of the modern Egyptian state by a fair few years and deserves to be described and evaluated in more detail than with simplistic cliches.

But I love this;
"connections to other ideologic (sic) Muslim terrorist related organisations."

Good man. Don't let any facts get in the way.

Good man (sic) from the above it is quite clear that you have not read the detail on the MB detailed in the Counter Extremism website or anywhere else for that matter ... but please do take the opportunity to educate yourself before making such unsubstantiated statements again.

The origin of the MB predating the previous Egyptian govermental authority is obviously irelevant to what was detailed. From your response it is quite clear you have failed to inform yourself of the even the most basic tenets of MB muslim related ideology. You have spectacularly failed to describe any of your opinions beyond simplistic cliches e.g.- "well-justified protest against military excess, including mass murder"
- therefore your response is irrelevant and meaningless

feargale

humphrys wrote: »

Dear anonymous "dav3". Let me dismantle your disgraceful post about me.

Your most effective way of dismantling dav3's posts would be an explicit denial of all links to the Israeli Embassy or other Israeli institutions, including funding (as alleged.)

DavidLyons_

What an odd thread. As evidenced via the ridiculous support for this strange young man.

AlekSmart

RobertKK wrote: »

It was in the Times about questions he and his family need to answer.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/questions-go-unanswered-6n2vm56qt

The European council for Fatwa and Research believe gay people should be executed.
On freedom of religion: "All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death"
So if you leave Islam you should be killed.

Sheikh Halawa supports the wearing of the niqab and said he brought up his children in his values and not that of society.

He also said there are no radical Muslims in Ireland, which has proven to be a false.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/pride-and-prejudice-being-a-muslim-in-ireland-163331.html

Same year:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fatwa-sheikh-with-links-to-irish-muslims-is-refused-visa-26759225.html

The problem with the 'oh ain't it great Ibrahim Halawa is free' is the same people are willing to turn a blind eye to why he and his sisters were actively supporting the MB in Egypt and don't want to discuss the families deep links to views that are not acceptable in our society or culture.

The ability of a large number of "activists" and rambling suporters of the Halawa case to ignore one other very basic reality is underlined in the bolded part above...

views that are not acceptable in our society or culture.

Not just "OUR" Society....don't ignore the other Egyptians in all of this !!

The Halawa family views,particularly as espoused by Imam Halawa and his Daughters (Ibrahim himself, may yet prove to be far less strident in those views than many may think) are equally unacceptable and repugnant to a VERY large sector of the Egyptian people (Including Muslims).

The Halawas have pleced themelves on one side of a long running,and often violent internal debate on their Religious interpetation of the World......There is an opposing view within their own Religion,which appears not to count for much round some parts ?

First Up

gozunda wrote:

- therefore your response is irrelevant and meaningless

Your concession is accepted.

First Up

AlekSmart wrote:

The Halawas have pleced themelves on one side of a long running,and often violent internal debate on their Religious interpetation of the World......There is an opposing view within their own Religion,which appears not to count for much round some parts ?

They placed themselves on the side of their son and brother who was unjustly jailed for four years. Any decent family would do the same.

The rest is waffle.

A Battered Mars Bar

When's he gonna be on the late late? Prizes for guessing who else will be on with him... my money is on Brenda Power and uuuuh can't even be bothered to finish that line up or I'll fall asleep.

Who would you like to see on he couch with him? Me it would be Kevin Myers and Eamonn Dunphy

wexandproud

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

What an odd thread. As evidenced via the ridiculous support for this strange young man.

your right there.

givyjoe

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

What an odd thread. As evidenced via the ridiculous support for this strange young man.

You're having an absolute laugh. Do you think that I or most of the folks who think an innocent man child (when arrested) should be released, after being held illegally for 4 years.. is anything other common decency? Something sorely lacking in many of the thinly veiled posts in here.

I'm no 'supporter' of Halawa, I just don't think it's right that an innocent kid should imprisoned for 4 years.. yeah, real strange :rolleyes:.

Is it that I don't just assume, ah sure he's Muslim... ah he was arrested, ah.. ah.. ah.. he must be guilty of something.

I'm sure none of the posters here, convinced of this lads 'guilt' are part of the 'damn foreigners taking our jobs' brigade (and the like). :rolleyes:

gozunda

First Up wrote: »

Your concession is accepted.

Ever the master student of the vague and unsubstantiated ... :rolleyes:

givyjoe

AlekSmart wrote: »

The ability of a large number of "activists" and rambling suporters of the Halawa case to ignore one other very basic reality is underlined in the bolded part above...



Not just "OUR" Society....don't ignore the other Egyptians in all of this !!

The Halawa family views,particularly as espoused by Imam Halawa and his Daughters (Ibrahim himself, may yet prove to be far less strident in those views than many may think) are equally unacceptable and repugnant to a VERY large sector of the Egyptian people (Including Muslims).

The Halawas have pleced themelves on one side of a long running,and often violent internal debate on their Religious interpetation of the World......There is an opposing view within their own Religion,which appears not to count for much round some parts ?

If he or his family are guilty of a crime.. then let's arrest them for that crime.. If he or his family are guilty of something, then it should be possible to find the evidence, arrest AND charge them. Until then, we (or the Egyptians) shouldn't be holding people for 4 years without charge, because we don't like how they think.

Beechwoodspark

First Up wrote: »

They placed themselves on the side of their son and brother who was unjustly jailed for four years. Any decent family would do the same.

The rest is waffle.

If only it was just "waffle", the world would be a simpler and probably more peaceful place.

Sadly the hardliners of the likes of the MB would never accept their beliefs are the "waffle" you claim.

washman3

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

When's he gonna be on the late late? Prizes for guessing who else will be on with him... my money is on Brenda Power and uuuuh can't even be bothered to finish that line up or I'll fall asleep.

Who would you like to see on he couch with him? Me it would be Kevin Myers and Eamonn Dunphy

Maybe somebody will ask him to confirm if he did or didn't burn his Irish passport some years back in another protest.!!

c_man

A Battered Mars Bar wrote: »

When's he gonna be on the late late?

When he has a book ready to come out.

K.Flyer

First Up wrote: »

They placed themselves on the side of their son and brother who was unjustly jailed for four years. Any decent family would do the same.

The rest is waffle.

Apparently neither of his three sisters nor his father once paid him a visit in those four years.

Ulysses Gaze

DavidLyons_ wrote: »

What an odd thread. As evidenced via the ridiculous support for this strange young man.

Support for due process yes.

Ridiculous concept I know.....

Galwayguy35

I guarantee they won't have Ian O Doherty on with him when he makes his TV appearance anyway.

He would tear through the BS in seconds and ask the hard questions RTE interviewers like Turbirdy or Claire Byrne are afraid to.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I guarantee they won't have Ian O Doherty on with him when he makes his TV appearance anyway.

He would tear through the BS in seconds and ask the hard questions RTE interviewers like Turbirdy or Claire Byrne are afraid to.

i'm sure he would say what you want to hear and ask the questions you want, but he won't "tear through the BS" because the "bs" are the facts of the case.

smurgen

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sure he would say what you want to hear and ask the questions you want, but he won't "tear through the BS" because the "bs" are the facts of the case.

Being economic with the truth is as bad as lying.i'm sure if the truth is told it'll be used very economically.

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

i'm sure he would say what you want to hear and ask the questions you want, but he won't "tear through the BS" because the "bs" are the facts of the case.

Not just the questions I want answered sunshine, there's a lot more with the same opinion as me.

The amount of money wasted on this guy when all he had to do was keep away from the trouble spots is ridiculous.

quintana76

They will be very careful to what media they expose him to. One awkward Muslim Brotherhood question could derail him live on TV, radio.
He will be well coached with pre prepared questions. That will be allowed as the media have put too much investment in his cause for to get egg on their faces at this point.

pablo128

K.Flyer wrote: »

Apparently neither of his three sisters nor his father once paid him a visit in those four years.

The sisters got bail and done a runner. They would have been arrested if they went back.

gozunda

K.Flyer wrote: »

Apparently neither of his three sisters nor his father once paid him a visit in those four years.

In an Irish Times article "Ibrahim Halawa - The inside story"* - in detail by a journalist talking to IHs legal representative - It was stated that IH was "refusing prison food, taking only the meals that his mother, Amina, queues for several hours in searing heat to deliver. Otherwise he takes “six or seven dates with some milk”, according to an account by his sister SH.

So his mother who is otherwise absent from the family scene and Ireland - appears to have been in Egypt at the time IH was in prison.

What also didn't seen to be widely detailed is that IW was moved to the VIP wing of Tora prison following intervention by the Irish authorities where he met and shared cell with Australian Al-Jazeera journalist Peter Greste.

For the advocates of the story that IH accidently got caught up in things whilst on holiday - the facts detailed show that the siblings including IH attended the "Day of Rage" rally in Rabba and some of the siblings addressed the crowd under a banner reading “Egyptians Abroad for Democracy” ...they then followed this up two days later by attending another 'demonstration' called by the lovely Muslin Brotherhood in Ramses Square from where they holed up in a mosque and were then detained by Egyptian security forces ...

*https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ibrahim-halawa-the-inside-story-1.2310182

Google the title to read the article ...

Snake Plisken

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I guarantee they won't have Ian O Doherty on with him when he makes his TV appearance anyway.

He would tear through the BS in seconds and ask the hard questions RTE interviewers like Turbirdy or Claire Byrne are afraid to.

Ian would be good or better still Mr Mark Humphrys! Mark would ask some very probing questions about that Halawa’s family Holiday in Egypt!

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not just the questions I want answered sunshine, there's a lot more with the same opinion as me

.

i'm sure. however, the vast majority of people aren't interested in the answers to these questions. he was acquitted and released, he was not guilty, end of story. job done.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The amount of money wasted on this guy when all he had to do was keep away from the trouble spots is ridiculous.

not at all. it was money well spent given the seriousness of his situation. he was entitled to protest against the overthrow of the democratically elected government, the subsiquent banning of the political party involved from running for election again, and subsiquent murder of those who protested it.

Snake Plisken wrote: »

better still Mr Mark Humphrys! Mark would ask some very probing questions about that Halawa’s family Holiday in Egypt!

he will be unavailible, he will be busy fixing his website that looks like it was made in the early 90s.

K.Flyer

pablo128 wrote: »

The sisters got bail and done a runner. They would have been arrested if they went back.

Given the more recent reports that they were tried in absentia and acquitted, what was the threat or fear of arrest that prevented them from returning to visit him.
What excuse was given for his father not going to see him.

K.Flyer

gozunda wrote: »

In an Irish Times article "Ibrahim Halawa - The inside story"
[...]https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ibrahim-halawa-the-inside-story-1.2310182

Google the title to read the article ...

No need to google thanks, I, like many others have been following and commenting on these events over the last few years.
As a father myself I just cannot understand why I.H's father would not travel out to visit him in prison. Unless of course he too had a fear of arrest for some reason or another.

wexandproud

c_man wrote: »

When he has a book ready to come out.

if he does have a book written it will be in the ''fiction'' on the shelves