Advice/suggestions needed -builder has left me homeless for 5 months-Mod Note Post #1

mooneyd

Mod Note: Thread has been reopened after discussion with MooneyD with the agreement that company/development names are removed.

Advice/comments are welcome without naming the specific companies/development.



I never thought I'd be that guy taking to social media to complain about my experience with anyone and to say buyer beware and talk about the horrible experience I have had while dealing with someone but here I am....

Buying in a new development from a developer through a Nationwide estate agent has been the most horrible experience with surprise after surprise throughout the process of buying the house only to leave us homeless since May of this year.

Before I get started I want to ask if anyone has any suggestions, feedback on situation <snip>

My partner and I are both 1st time buyers in our early 30's and after going sale agreed in November 2016 we were all excited to take the next step in life and become proud mortgage owners. Being from the county and the owner of 2 dogs that we adore we chose a house with a slightly bigger back garden (at cost is €5,000 extra but in out eyes it was worth it to make sure the dogs had a decent space).

Alas the sunshine and rainbows were short lived when the developer yet another Nama bailout builder was back to their old tricks. It took almost 2 months from the agreement of sale to issue the contract and at that time I didn't mind it was a new build and was not due to be completed until April.
Once the contract was received we were eager to sign but there was a problem, the builder was an approved "help to buy scheme" builder so we should pay 5% and the government would also pay 5% (it was awesome it left us with 5% of the initial 10% deposit we needed to show the bank available to buy a bed, tile the floors and buy our kitchen appliances) but this wasn't the case the builder had requested we pay the full 10% up front. So we queried this with the builder and asked for the contract to be amended but not long after we requested the amendment I received an out of the blue one phone call from our solicitor to say that the builders solicitor had been in touch and if we didn't return the signed contract and the remaining balance of the 10% deposit in the next two days they were selling it to someone else.

Panicked and knowing the pain of trying to find a home for the past year we knew what we had to do. We took our life savings(€15,750) along with any chance of fitting out our home to a decent standard when we move in. We signed the contract and paid the full 10% deposit.

It didn't take us long to shake it off and the excitement to consume us one again. Any trip to Dublin included a mandatory drive by the estate to check the progress of the build.
I joined the boards.ie thread for the development and started to get to know my neighbours. It was here when the first 30-40 houses were moved into that we found out that the shower doors in the showhouse were not going to be included. €400-600 it wasn't the end of the world and at the end of the day when we queried it with the agent they said it wasn't outlined in the contract and that only the first 26 houses would get one. I understood.

Reading up on the contract I see were going to get a shower in each of the bathrooms but in our phase there was only one for the ensuite. "It's surly an oversight I mean it's in the contract" so our solicitor chases it up only to receive an abrupt response to say that the additional showers were not in the showhouse and would not be fitted and that was the last time they would address this issue with us.

This was a bit cheeky when we wanted the shower doors that were in the show house we couldn't have them because they weren't in the contract but when we wanted the shower for the main bathroom that was in the contract we couldn't have that because it wasn't in the show house. I mean how do I get what's actually been sold to me last November?

It's a wording mistake I guess it has to be I mean what reputable company advertises a product and blatantly decides what features they actually want to give you from the advertised product?

April comes and goes and like most new builds the house is behind schedule but our lease is up on our rented property and the landlord wants to sell so we've no option but to move out. With the house well under way we can't get anywhere to rent for just 1-2 months that will take us let alone the dogs. Effectively we're now homeless!
In June the house is finally ready and we get the long awaited call to snag the house. We're ecstatic and join our snagger on site to step foot into our house for the first time.
The house was far from ready so much so that after 30 minutes or so our snagger turns to me with a 3 A4 page long list and says I'm sorry this house isn't ready to be snagged and requests we call him back when the house is in a better state. Subsequently it takes 5 attempts to snag before the house is at a point were happy to sign off.

The real kicker was our boundary wall. We bought a corner house and we can see our front garden runs in line with the footpath but for the back garden the boundary wall is stepped in about a meter the whole length of the garden to leave a 14m2 patch of grass between our boundary wall and the footpath.
WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?! The boundary line for the front and back gardens don't line up. Why after paying €5,000 extra for a slightly bigger back garden is there a wall in the middle of my garden?

We questioned the foreman on site who said that the wall at the back garden is the boundary line and he gifted up a larger front garden out of the goodness of his heart.
We took a few pictures and when we got home I emailed our solicitor to question our boundary line. I mean we paid €5,000 for a slightly bigger garden and its not even in our garden! What am I or my dogs going to do with a 1m x 14m stretch of grass?
After a lot of to'ing and fro'ing with the builder they finally admit that the footpath is the boundary line and they have in fact built the boundary wall not along my boundary.

NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM!
At this point our solicitors explains that we cannot close on the house because if anyone falls or injures themselves outside our house we could be liable for the damages and that over time this patch of grass could be effectively consumed and become communal space resulting In our boundary being completely off and rendering the house unable to be sold down the line.

We say it to the builder that the wall is in the wrong place and needs to be moved and they respond saying planning permission states it has to be placed where it is now. (I've never seen a case where the council explicitly say you must put a wall here knowing that it would be a public liability issue.)
We challenge this response and ask for where in the planning docs it states the wall has to be here. Weeks later we get an airy fairy response quoting their architect saying that they can't put the wall beside the footpath because it would cause a jarring effect on the perception of the estate with the over use materials.
So under advice we hired a land surveyor another 600 quid down the swanny. He comes out has a look and made a comment about the builder clutching at straws with these sort of excuses.
His report comes back with pictures from the planning documents showing the wall in line with our boundary and even measurements to show the wall is in the incorrect location and for the above mentioned reasons the wall needs to be relocated. The wall is in the correct location for the first 9 corner houses and for all of the houses in the current phase it seems they only made this error with 6 houses in the middle of the build.

I have forwarded the surveyors report to the builder showing them in detail that the wall is in fact in the incorrect location, I leveled with them explained that we understood when it came to the shower doors and showers and that it was now time for them to do their part and accept that it was an honest mistake and agree to relocate the boundary wall so that we can finally close the sale of the house and get on with our lives. Additionally our solicitor emailed theirs the report to follow up through official channels. Since then we have not received any response from the builder who I can only imagine is hoping that we pull out of the sale so that they can make an additional €15-20,000 on the initial asking price by selling the house to someone else who won't query the boundary wall.



We're 5 months homeless jumping from couch to couch while unable to pull out of the sale because we can't afford the increased prices of houses in the current market only with the option to purchase a house we won't be able to sell down the line not to mention the liability risk hanging over our heads.

If you a have any suggestions as to who to talk to, how to get this sorted please share your ideas it would be really appreciated.


Thatnks,
Dan

Car99

That's very bad form from them, could you close the sale , relocate the wall and sue them for the costs?

mooneyd

Car99 wrote: »

That's very bad form from them, could you close the sale , relocate the wall and sue them for the costs?

I was advised I can't sue if I close the sale my only option is to stick it out and sue but that's gonna take another year so so.

Sleeper12

What about reporting the walls to the planning department? They might make them move them.

qrx

What is your solicitor doing about it surely he should be sorting this for you? Send them a legal letter telling them you are pulling out, outlining the reasons with the boundary wall and that you want your deposit back.

mooneyd

qrx wrote: »

What is your solicitor doing about it surely he should be sorting this for you? Send them a legal letter telling them you are pulling out, outlining the reasons with the boundary wall and that you want your deposit back.

The problem is the builder has stopped responding.
They would love us to pull out as the value of the house has gone up €15,000 since going sale agreed so they only stand to gain. Where we on the other hand got an exception for the mortgage just to afford the original price if we pull out in afraid we'll be kissing away our chance to make it onto the property ladder.

seamus

mooneyd wrote: »

I can only imagine is hoping that we pull out of the sale so that they can make an additional €15-20,000 on the initial asking price by selling the house to someone else who won't query the boundary wall.

Bingo.

Same old crap happened in the last property boom, builders doing whatever they want because they know that a buyer who pulls out means they can sell the house at a higher price.

In the builder's mind you're getting this house "cheap" now because prices have gone up since you signed the contract. That's how these idiots think.

Make sure you're completely correct on the matter, and that the wall is definitely wrong. Then close the house, put up a wooden fence on the proper boundary and knock the incorrect one. Have a copy of the original approved plans to hand so that if anyone gives you hassle you can tell them to fnck off.

Yes, it'll cost you money but you have to weigh up this cost against the stress and cost of another year or more of legal battles.

At your leisure then you can rebuild a block wall where the wooden fence is. If the builder tries to take down your fence you can have him done for criminal damage and civil trespass.

mooneyd

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What about reporting the walls to the planning department? They might make them move them.

Tried this. I've submitted a complaint last week but they said it's probably a civil issue and they won't get involved

qrx

Can you try talking directly to the foreman? He'll know his lads messed up and if you could get across the stress and hassle it is causing you, that you are homeless, he might fix it. Even offer him a few bob if you have to.

mooneyd

qrx wrote: »

Can you try talking directly to the foreman? He'll know his lads messed up and if you could get across the stress and hassle it is causing you, that you are homeless, he might fix it. Even offer him a few bob if you have to.

This I can do he seems pretty sound so I was hoping that maybe he can at least pass it up the line if not come up with a fix himself.

spaceHopper

Sorry to be blunt but forget about the showers and all that, it just makes you seem like you are whining.

Go to your local Councillors and TD. Give that time to work then if nothing happens, talk to the Estate Agent make it clear to them the cost of moving the wall will be less than cost of all the trouble it will cause them if they don't. Tell them their name is attached to this too can they make the builder see sense.

This is last resort but in Laytown people had problems with new house and rain being driven in under the doors on balconies up stairs. The builder was taking his time fixing it. They put large signs in the windows, buyer beware builder won't fix problems. They go fixed quick. Get copies of their letters about planning and from the architect, your report.... go to the show house early the next weekend park your car in a good spot. Leave it till close to the viewing time the stick all the paperwork in the side windows of the car lock it leave it there and you'll get a call on Monday.

After that you have to face facts the bank won't lend, check if your contracts is it subject to good title, that might get your deposit back

Alkers

mooneyd wrote:

This I can do he seems pretty sound so I was hoping that maybe he can at least pass it up the line if not come up with a fix himself.

If that doesn't work your best option is probably to close the sale and then just get the wall moved yourself after you're the owner. You'll have the documentation to prove the correct boundary position etc.

spaceHopper

Simona1986 wrote: »

If that doesn't work your best option is probably to close the sale and then just get the wall moved yourself after you're the owner. You'll have the documentation to prove the correct boundary position etc.

He can't the builder has to have good title before the bank can lend, it has to be sorted or they have to pull out, best case they get their deposit back, the builder redoes the contracts and sell it for 15K more as prices have gone up.

The only other option is to redraw the boundary and contracts to sort out the title and close but the builder has gone dark.

jimmycrackcorm

Really your solicitor should be working for you instead of whimpering. It does seem your only option is to hold up the completion until the details under contract are fixed. The boundary is a key point.

Your solicitor should be be spoiling for breach of contract if it isn't.

myshirt

This thread screams out the need for good legal advice. People always complain about expensive solicitors, and I say wait until you see what a cheap one will cost you!

A right nightmare op, truly feel for you here.

We had a case in the flip side during the crash where we had a guy pay 450 for a house and there were certain issues with a retaining wall. He wanted out as if he could get his money back, he could buy the same house a few doors down for 260. Four years the money was in escrow until the client sorted it for him.

The_Conductor

myshirt wrote: »

This thread screams out the need for good legal advice. People always complain about expensive solicitors, and I say wait until you see what a cheap one will cost you!

A right nightmare op, truly feel for you here.

We had a case in the flip side during the crash where we had a guy pay 450 for a house and there were certain issues with a retaining wall. He wanted out as if he could get his money back, he could buy the same house a few doors down for 260. Four years the money was in escrow until the client sorted it for him.

+1
Dermot Coyne in the Village is already dealing with a few, ahem, not dissimilar issues, on behalf of other purchasers in the unnamed development.

Vis-a-vis going to your local politicians about this- don't bother. Both the local councillors and the local TDs lobbied and secured funds to purchase additional social housing units in the development to take the pressure off another local estate (which has featured extensively in the media recently). They want the estate finished and handed over, as fast and cleanly as possible- they are not going to rock the boat with the developer.

Get good legal advice- it will cost you, but its better to spend the money now- than to repent at leisure, to take a twist on the old phrase.

mooneyd

The_Conductor wrote: »

+1
Dermot Coyne in the Village is already dealing with a few, ahem, not dissimilar issues, on behalf of other purchasers in the unnamed development.

Vis-a-vis going to your local politicians about this- don't bother. Both the local councillors and the local TDs lobbied and secured funds to purchase additional social housing units in the development to take the pressure off another local estate (which has featured extensively in the media recently). They want the estate finished and handed over, as fast and cleanly as possible- they are not going to rock the boat with the developer.

Get good legal advice- it will cost you, but its better to spend the money now- than to repent at leisure, to take a twist on the old phrase.

We're definitely changing legal representation if were going down the route of litigation I'm going for the juggler. We're going to drop into the foreman today with they survey report to try and reach a agreement face to face before we are left with other option but to sue.

Sleeper12

mooneyd wrote:

We're definitely changing legal representation if were going down the route of litigation I'm going for the juggler. We're going to drop into the foreman today with they survey report to try and reach a agreement face to face before we are left with other option but to sue.

I think you are right there. Your existing solicitor may be perfectly capable for the average house sale but if you have to take this further you will want a firm that has seen the inside of a court room.

Eire_2016

How are u getting on mooneyd?

mooneyd

Eire_2016 wrote: »

How are u getting on mooneyd?

Sitting down with the builder next week. So finally getting some dialogue going.