The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

Doltanian

This Dublin team will be forever tainted by Joe McQuillan.

Sonny678

I wrote a long message for a hour describing every final from 1970 to 2017 to explain a point. I stuck in the charger and lost the whole fecking message. Nooooooooo.
My hand is falling off me. So I will try to do a summary of what I was going to say. I'm sure I have annoyed allot with my ranting and raving . And if I have put down anyone team or player apologies all around .

Anyway my messed up message was the very strange and bizzare Dublin record in All Ireland finals. Everyone says Mayo don't win finals. But Dublin also have a final problem. Dublin don't play well in finals. The last time Dublin delivered a great All Ireland final performance was in 76 and 77.

If you look at every final since 1960 these are the finals were the winning teams did not play really well eg leaving out Dublin finals

1980 kerry v Roscommon. Kerry find it hard to deal with resilent Rossies
1989 Cork v Mayo. Cork are very jittery v gutsy Mayo
1993 Davis sending off seemed to have negative impact on Cork. Derry with 15 men beat Corks 14
1996 A nervous young Meath team find it difficult to shake off a gutsy Mayo team
2010 Down start so well. Cork only really start playing in the final 20 mins

The above finals are only finals since 1960 leaving out Dublin finals where the winners underperformed. It's unusual for winners to underperform in a final. Remeber Down blowing kerry away in 1960. Our Cork playing champagne football in 1973. Our Donegals tour de force display v Dublin in 92. Our Galways magic second half v kildare in 98. Our the game of the decade Tyrone v Kerry 05 when the Tyrone football machine dismantled kerry.

Dublin don't play well in finals. Much worse record then any other top county.

All Dublin finals since 77.
1 78 hammered by Kerry
2 79 another bad defeat to Kerry
3 83 was not a football match . It was 15 Conor Mcgregors in the first live cage fight ever
4 84 and 85 Comfortable wins by Kerry v Dublin
5 92 Dublin are dreadful v Donegal
6 94 Dublin again are dreadful v Down
7 95 Dublin fall over the line v Tyrone
8 11 Kerry are better team for most of the game. Dublin only take control in the final mins
9 13 A poor final both Dublin and Mayo are poor only for brilliance of Brogan Dublin r champions
10 15 probaly Dublins best performance since 1977. But Kerry were very poor. Dublin played in patches. But couldn't really get started. And kerry still could have drawn the match with Donaghy last minute chance. But this 3 point win is Dublin best performance in a final in the last 12 Dublin All Ireland final appearances since 1977.
11 16 Mayo could have won both games. Dublin underperform
12 17 Mayo should have won. Dublin underperform

The characteristics of Dublin wins are jittery performances with players under performing. And hanging onto the ball in injury time to hold onto to a slender 1 point lead. This is what happened in Dublins last 6 wins. Before those 6 wins Dublin had 4 dreadful All Ireland finals v Donegal 92 Down 94 and Kerry twice in the mid 80s.

Dublins last 6 All Irelands
1995 Dublin win by 1 point v Tyrone
2011 Dublin win by 1 point v Kerry
2013 Dublin win by 1 point v Mayo
2015 Dublin win by 3 points v Kerry
2016 Dublin win by 1 point v Mayo
2017 Dublin win by 1 point v Mayo

Maybe Dublin have had such great opposition and that is the theory pedalled by the Dublin media. But all the performances are so sub standard . There is no one great Dublin performance in an All Ireland final since 1977 . In 12 finals Dublin have underperformed. If people say Mayo cannot win finals. Would it be outrageous to say Dublin don't play well in finals

And how can the greatest team never deliver a strong All Ireland final performance . Surely that is another question mark. Great teams deliver great performance or even strong displays in finals. For me this is another question that media have failed to adrdess
I think of great final performance when Offaly beat Kerry by 8 points to do the double in 72.
Our Offaly beating Kerry in 82 scoring the greatst goal ever in the greatest final ever
Our Kerry beating Dublin out the gate in 78.
Our Kerrys blowing Mayo away in the first ten minutes in two finals in 04 and 06. It's really bizzare that the Dubs don't turn it on in finals. It's a fact. The stats and results back up this viewpoint.

davedanon

A small point, but - 'Dublin media' my hole


You know what the 'dublin media' is full of? Yes, that's right. F*cking culchies. So stop talking sh*te.

Bonniedog

RoscommonTom wrote: »

the Kerry four in a row is the best team of all time. Dublin gets millions of euros from the Gaa and gets to play all their games in crocker, imagine if Kerry or mayo had them sorts of advantages playing at home and loads of money, I think theyd be winning as much as the dubs

they might blow all their money on buses and all night nude pool parties...

Bonniedog

blanch152 wrote: »

Except there wasn't an eye-gouge, and this is the wrong thread.

Oh, and the cynical play started long before the last few minutes and the Dubs weren't the worst or the instigators.

Imagine if a Dublin player had done what Keegan did? What's next, rocks, darts, ...?

The_Honeybadger

I don't think you can ever conclusively state that one team was better than another equally successful team of another era. There have been some magical teams over the years, most of whom I am too young to remember.

This recent media effort to erase anything that happened pre 2011 and crown the Dubs as the best ever is daft. This has even extended to talking up Mayo as the best team to ever emerge from Connacht to lend credibility to the argument. Mayo are top class from 1-7 but how many of their midfield and forward players would make other great teams? Even some ex Kerry players are at it, brownnosing the Dubs, probably in fear of losing their lucrative media gigs once the likes of Brogan et al start to retire from playing.

I'm not saying for a second that Dublin don't deserve high praise, they are a phenomenal outfit with a top class manager, but it's a bit early to be calling them the best team ever. There is no doubt in my mind that they have benefited considerably from circumstances since 2013 in particular where there is a very weak field of teams in contention.

This is an interesting thread no doubt but it's very subjective and down to personal opinion at the end of the day.

Bonniedog

I think if you read back that every Dub contributor has acknowledged that Kerry 1975 - 1986 still remain the outstanding team in football history.

Now, that might change as other dog has not finished running yet :-)

Shurimgreat

Bonniedog wrote: »

Imagine if a Dublin player had done what Keegan did? What's next, rocks, darts, ...?

Imagine if a Mayo player did what Costello did? He'd be crucified in the media and we'd never hear the end of Dublin whinging.

Both episodes cancel each other out in my book and its time for people to move on. Both players deserve the same punishment whatever that is. At best both players were immature. And I hope both are embarrassed by their actions.

Bonniedog

I don't think either should be punished in retrospect.

However, what Keegan did breached a new low and surprised it has not been given more attention.

At best he be given benefit of doubt that he did it off the cuff. Would not like to think that this is what some people consider as part of game plan.

Shurimgreat

The Kerry team of the 70s/80s are a long way ahead of this Dublin team for numerous reasons.

Smallish population pick.
Number of AIs and All-Stars won by the majority of their players.
Played the game in the right spirit.
Were not noted for cynicism.
Opposition was of a higher standard and faced a number of good teams such as Dublin, Roscommon, Offaly, Cork, Tyrone and Meath among several others.
Based around a core group of players rather than having the huge pick of Dublin who can continually refresh their squad.
Didn't have home advantage in big games.
Didn't have much travelling support from Kerry for many of their big games.
Had to travel to Dublin for big games.
Many of their squad were based in Dublin and trained in Dublin, hence lack of collective training involving the full squad.

When you think of it, their achievements were amazing.

Bonniedog

I assume you meant Kerry!

So what advantages did Kerry have as compared to, oh, maybe a county with similar demographics and so on ...

Shurimgreat

Bonniedog wrote: »

I assume you meant Kerry!

So what advantages did Kerry have as compared to, oh, maybe a county with similar demographics and so on ...

Oh yep sorry about that, I meant Kerry.

All I'm hearing for the last week is Dublin this, Dublin that, so its on the brain.

Shurimgreat

Its time to start taking some of the big games out of Croke Park.
People say its no advantage to Dublin, but I'm not sure.

Its time at least to force Dublin out of its comfort zone.

League Finals in Thurles or Cork.

Quarter finals involving Dublin in Cork or Thurles.

Maybe even a case for AI semi finals in Cork. And if people say yeh but what about accommodating the huge demand, I say so what.

Dublin's advantages are gone beyond a joke at this stage. Its time some effort at least was made to balance the playing field.

Only then can we talk about great teams, rather than a team who has everything loaded in its favour.

Rant over.

Bonniedog

As it stands, Dwyer's team(s) are best ever. no question.

That might change.

Shurimgreat

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't think either should be punished in retrospect.

However, what Keegan did breached a new low and surprised it has not been given more attention.

At best he be given benefit of doubt that he did it off the cuff. Would not like to think that this is what some people consider as part of game plan.

Keegan's actions do appear off the cuff. Costello's appear to be part of an orchestrated Dublin game plan. I will let you decide which is more sinister and not in keeping with the spirt of the game. If Costello was ordered from the sideline to interfere with Clarkes tees and I suspect he was, its a disgusting tactic.

Tommy Max

Lads there is no point getting defensive about it.

Right or wrong? A free was given to Kilkenny on stroke of half time after he ran into his own player and actually over carried. Mayo were on a break away but Dublin given free which Rock scored.

Right or wrong? O' Gara slammed stuck Boyle in the face? The pictures are pretty conclusive of the intent. Clear red card offense.

Right or wrong? Lee Keegan was dragged down for a penalty that cameras showed was well inside the square.

We can go on and discuss the display of Dublin in the final 5 minutes where the forwards were told to maul the Mayo players and make no intention to play football. Costello came on and made no attempt to play. He was clearly told to go in and hold down the corner back who was cleaning up.

Its slightly ironic that Costello's only contribution this year was to get onto the field and be sneaky and underhand. I do think Jim Gavin had his part in this too.

Now I am not a Mayo man. I have played the game both at club and county level and felt Dublin for all the talk and hype of them being great looked totally desperate last Sunday and clearly abused the fact that a weak ref was in place. Seeing Brogan calling up Cluxton to kick a line ball near the end and Kilkenny holding onto Lee keegan for dear life on the ground and leaving the field happy to have taking the black card, told the story.

You look at a bloke like Andy Moran for example. Double and triple marked and still showing brilliance. Playing the game hard but always fair. For me someone like that is far more deserving of an all Ireland medal than lads like Costello, O' Gara, Cooper, who just go out to be underhand. If that is success and sportsmanship doesn't matter anymore then it's a game I want nothing more to do with.

Fair play and good sportsmanship is obviously not something this Dublin team and management believe in.

Bonniedog

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Keegan's actions do appear off the cuff. Costello's appear to be part of an orchestrated Dublin game plan. I will let you decide which is more sinister and not in keeping with the spirt of the game. If Costello was ordered from the sideline to interfere with Clarkes tees and I suspect he was, its a disgusting tactic.

So throwing a metal object at a freetaker is just a bit of crack then?

Much of Dublin behaviour in last two minutes - actually Mayo Joe extended to 5 - was in reaction to what Keegan did,

Bonniedog

Tommy Max wrote: »

Lads there is no point getting defensive about it.

Right or wrong? A free was given to Kilkenny on stroke of half time after he ran into his own player and actually over carried. Mayo were on a break away but Dublin given free which Rock scored.

Right or wrong? O' Gara slammed stuck Boyle in the face? The pictures are pretty conclusive of the intent. Clear red card offense.

Right or wrong? Lee Keegan was dragged down for a penalty that cameras showed was well inside the square.

We can go on and discuss the display of Dublin in the final 5 minutes where the forwards were told to maul the Mayo players and make no intention to play football. Costello came on and made no attempt to play. He was clearly told to go in and hold down the corner back who was cleaning up.

Its slightly ironic that Costello's only contribution this year was to get onto the field and be sneaky and underhand. I do think Jim Gavin had his part in this too.

Now I am not a Mayo man. I have played the game both at club and county level and felt Dublin for all the talk and hype of them being great looked totally desperate last Sunday and clearly abused the fact that a weak ref was in place. Seeing Brogan calling up Cluxton to kick a line ball near the end and Kilkenny holding onto Lee keegan for dear life on the ground and leaving the field happy to have taking the black card, told the story.

You look at a bloke like Andy Moran for example. Double and triple marked and still showing brilliance. Playing the game hard but always fair. For me someone like that is far more deserving of an all Ireland medal than lads like Costello, O' Gara, Cooper, who just go out to be underhand. If that is success and sportsmanship doesn't matter anymore then it's a game I want nothing more to do with.

Fair play and good sportsmanship is obviously not something this Dublin team and management believe in.

We feel your pain.

DoctaDee

Just dropping into this thread a little later than most .

Firstly welcome back Sonny - I haven't had a chance to start at the start but judging by the posts, you've gone to a lot of time and effort to develop a back story and basis for debate.

Secondly - lads is there any chance we could park the discussion of incidents from Sunday, you have plenty of other threads that can accommodate them and personally it makes for turgid reading at this stage .. ta

Shurimgreat

Bonniedog wrote: »

So throwing a metal object at a freetaker is just a bit of crack then?

Much of Dublin behaviour in last two minutes - actually Mayo Joe extended to 5 - was in reaction to what Keegan did,

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm going to take DoctaDees advice and refrain from further discussion on this thread about it.
Mickyk makes a valid point about "greatest ever" being subjective.
Teams will be remembered and admired for how they play the game and the spirit in which they played the game.

Cheating has no part in any sport. If it had, then Lance Armstrong would still be hailed and admired at the "greatest ever cyclist".

The_Kew_Tour

Sonny678 wrote: »

Did the ref rob Cork in 88
.

Yes.

downthemiddle

I can see the potential for an offshoot to this thread, The Greatest Whingers Ever Thread.

Sonny678

If Meath robbed Cork in 88. Surely then you will have to agree Dublin robbed kerry in 2011 with very dubious free. Correction a free that wasn't a free was given to the Dubs in 11. Nows thats twice the Dubs have been given two frees by referees who have now given two injury time frees to win two All for the so called greatest team ever. But I forgot when Dublin get a dubious free they don't rob any team. They deserve to win frees that's aren't frees . It's the way of GAA world.


Again if Meath robbed in 88 did Dublin not rob Kerry in 2011. With player gouging, penalties not given, soft frees to the dubs and winning point from a free did the Dubs not rob Mayo again this year.

Did Dublin not rob Tyrone in 1995 when the ref blowed for a free that was legal pick up in the dying seconds of the game and the ref disallowed a equalising score that followed.

So in summary did Dublin rob 3 All Irelands in the last 20 years
1 Did Dublin rob Tyrone in 1995? yes
2 Did Dublin rob kerry in 2011 ? 110% yes
3 Did Dublin rob Mayo this year ? yes

Sonny678

It is a definate record for the greatst team ever for the same referee to give 2 frees in injury time in 2 different finals to the same team. Joe was ref in 2011 final and was ref in 2017 final both times Dublin won the All Ireland with frees in injury time to win an All Ireland by a single point. That is definatly a GAA record . No team has ever won 2 All Ireland in injury time with frees from the same ref. The greatest team ever my arse. No all time great team has such flawed pedigree but the New Zealand of gaelic football cannot or shall not be criticised.

Tommy Max

Bonniedog If that's what ye need to do to win then its a bit pointless even mentioning that team in the same sentence as the great Kerry side.

Your lack of a response was exactly what I expected. My points proven.

Bonniedog

Now now Sonny.

You are letting the mask of historical impartiality slip.

Sonny678

You do get a feeling so many ex players are scared ****less to criticise the Dubs. The Sunday Game ignoring penalties player gouging players and final minutes of Dublin wrestling Mayo to the ground on mass. Usually The Sunday would wet itself over such issues. No The Sunday Game see no hear no Dublin evil.
I heard Cavanan saying on radio when asked about O Gara gouging that the game is over its irrelevant now Dublin won. This is a man who has spent 20 years whinging about late Meath tackle 20 years ago..
When Dublin foul it's OK nothing to see here when Meath foul it's a crime against humanity.
Former players are so scared to criticise Dublin it's frightening.

Bonniedog

Tommy Max wrote: »

Bonniedog If that's what ye need to do to win then its a bit pointless even mentioning that team in the same sentence as the great Kerry side.

Your lack of a response was exactly what I expected. My points proven.

Need what to win?

You are just retailing all the usual stuff that's aimed at any great team. And conveniently ignoring what others do to stop them.

Sonny678

Yes but facts are facts and I deal in facts
Someone mention 88 game Meath v Cork Meath robbing Cork
Surely the Dublin v Tyrone final you could say Dublin robbed Tyrone and Kerry v Dublin 11 you could say Dublin robbed kerry

Bonniedog

Well off top of head, O'Rourke was in square for goal that won Leinster title for you boys in 1990..., but we don't dwell on the past :-)

Sephiral

They've won three in a row with a team with a very young age profile. They will be around for years with more youngsters to bring in to keep things fresh. There is every chance they will challenge Kerry 75-86 for the greatest team ever mantle.

As for the level of competition, the truth is that Ulster is the only competitive province and that the increasing levels of professionalism are making the game tiered between those with the resources and commitment to compete at a higher level and those that don't.

Oh, and seeing as everyone is on board for a whinge, Donegal would have won Sam in 2012 if Karl Lacey hadn'y been taken out of it in the AL semi. :mad:

BonnieSituation

With all this talk of Leinster being historically weak why is it never thrown at the "great" Kerry teams that they only had to maybe play Clare or Waterford or Tipp or Limerick then Cork in a Munster final and then into an AISF.

Strikes me it's as handy then as it was now.

Sure for how long were they getting byes to Munster finals? 2 games to an AIF... 3 to win it... doesn't sound tough....

Seems like the great Dublin, Down and Meath sides of the 90s had it tougher.

To my mind if Dublin won ten-in-a-row excuses would still be made to not accept them as "the greatest".

BonnieSituation

Sephiral wrote: »

They've won three in a row with a team with a very young age profile. They will be around for years with more youngsters to bring in to keep things fresh. There is every chance they will challenge Kerry 75-86 for the greatest team ever mantle.

As for the level of competition, the truth is that Ulster is the only competitive province and that the increasing levels of professionalism are making the game tiered between those with the resources and commitment to compete at a higher level and those that don't.

Oh, and seeing as everyone is on board for a whinge, Donegal would have won Sam in 2012 if Karl Lacey hadn'y been taken out of it in the AL semi. :mad:

2014?

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

It is a definate record for the greatst team ever for the same referee to give 2 frees in injury time in 2 different finals to the same team. Joe was ref in 2011 final and was ref in 2017 final both times Dublin won the All Ireland with frees in injury time to win an All Ireland by a single point. That is definatly a GAA record . No team has ever won 2 All Ireland in injury time with frees from the same ref. The greatest team ever my arse. No all time great team has such flawed pedigree but the New Zealand of gaelic football cannot or shall not be criticised.

How dare you accuse us of being like NZ.

We win on the pitch. Not in the lab.

Sonny678

Bonniedog wrote:

Well off top of head, O'Rourke was in square for goal that won Leinster title for you boys in 1990..., but we don't dwell on the past :-)

A great day only Mick Lyons was injured in 89 we would have beaten Dublin 6 years in a row in championship not just 5 out of 6 years . Them where the days. When Meath had Dublin rattled to their very core. Mighty stuff

Sonny678

If Dublin won ten in row. They would be greatest team in the history of sport. Its simple for Dublin to be the greatest they have to win a 5 in a row or 9 All Irelands. Simple as. Then no one can question any achievements.

Kerry had to face Cork from 1975 - 1986. Cork from 1975 to 86 where a top divsion 1 team. Dublin have not had to face a top Division 1 team in leinster since early noughties. Cork where for many of those years the third best team in country. Dublin this decade have never had opposition in leinster that where in the top 3. Again you have to go back to 2001 that a team in leinster was in the top 3 teams in the country other then Dublin . Kerry had tougher opposition in Munster in 75 to 86 then Dublin have had in leinster 2011 to 17.. Dublin face the easiest / the worst leinster championship ever. And Dublin are one of the few All Ireland teams in history that don't have top div 1 team in their provience .. And in the last 70 years I cannot think of any All Ireland winner who had no top div 1 team in their province other then Dublin. So this argument thrown at kerry having a easy provience. Is even more relevant to Dublin.

The Talking Bread

Bonniedog wrote: »

So throwing a metal object at a freetaker is just a bit of crack then?

Much of Dublin behaviour in last two minutes - actually Mayo Joe extended to 5 - was in reaction to what Keegan did,

no it wasn't. Stop fooling yourself there

Bonniedog

We don't need to fool ourselves.

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

If Dublin won ten in row. They would be greatest team in the history of sport. Its simple for Dublin to be the greatest they have to win a 5 in a row or 9 All Irelands. Simple as. Then no one can question any achievements.

Kerry had to face Cork from 1975 - 1986. Cork from 1975 to 86 where a top divsion 1 team. Dublin have not had to face a top Division 1 team in leinster since early noughties. Cork where for many of those years the third best team in country. Dublin this decade have never had opposition in leinster that where in the top 3. Again you have to go back to 2001 that a team in leinster was in the top 3 teams in the country other then Dublin . Kerry had tougher opposition in Munster in 75 to 86 then Dublin have had in leinster 2011 to 17.. Dublin face the easiest / the worst leinster championship ever. And Dublin are one of the few All Ireland teams in history that don't have top div 1 team in their provience .. And in the last 70 years I cannot think of any All Ireland winner who had no top div 1 team in their province other then Dublin. So this argument thrown at kerry having a easy provience. Is even more relevant to Dublin.

So what you're saying is get rid of the provincials?

Sonny678

BonnieSituation wrote:

With all this talk of Leinster being historically weak why is it never thrown at the "great" Kerry teams that they only had to maybe play Clare or Waterford or Tipp or Limerick then Cork in a Munster final and then into an AISF.

Its not talk it's a fact leinster is historically weak. Since independence Dublin are the only team in leinster that never had rival

1920 and 30s Dublin ( All Ireland winners had Kildare ( double All Ireland winners)

1940s and 50s Meath( Double All Ireland winners had Louth ( leinster champions and All Ireland winner in 57) and Dublin ( All.Ireland winners)

1960s Meath (All Ireland winners) had Offaly ( double All Ireland finalist) and longford ( leinster champions and national league div 1 champions)

1970s Dublin ( Treble All Ireland winners) had Offaly (All Ireland winners) and Meath ( Division 1 national league winners)

19 80s Meath ( double All Ireland winners ) had Dublin (leinster champions) and Laois ( national league div 1 champions)

1990s Meath ( double All Ireland winners) had Dublin ( All Ireland winner) Kildare ( All Ireland finalist) Offaly ( leinster champions and Division 1 national league champions)

Noughties Dublin had Meath ( All Ireland finalist and leinster champions) Westmeath and Laois ( leinster champions)

2011 -2017 Dublin 5 times All Ireland champions have
0 All Ireland champions to face
0 All Ireland finalist to face
0 Leinster champions to face
0 League 1 div champions to face
0 div 1 opposition
Simply put Dublin have easiest leinster championship ever.

If the Dubs give out about the Kingdom easy route in Munster they are been hypocritical for Dublin have the easier provience ..have the weakest opposition of any All Ireland winner ever since Cavan in the 1930s.

Sonny678

Yes yes yes please yes

Dublin have won 12 out of 13 leinster championships. The leinster championship is a joke.
One of the greatest teams ever versus maybe 2 or 3 divsion 2 teams and the rest is div 3 or div 4 teams
The leinster championship has a proud history and means something when counties other then Dublin win . But now the Byrne cup is more interesting. It actually is a more viable proper competition.

Leinster championship RIP

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Its not talk it's a fact leinster is historically weak. Since independence Dublin are the only team in leinster that never had rival

1920 and 30s Dublin ( All Ireland winners had Kildare ( double All Ireland winners)

1940s and 50s Meath( Double All Ireland winners had Louth ( leinster champions and All Ireland winner in 57) and Dublin ( All.Ireland winners)

1960s Meath (All Ireland winners) had Offaly ( double All Ireland finalist) and longford ( leinster champions and national league div 1 champions)

1970s Dublin ( Treble All Ireland winners) had Offaly (All Ireland winners) and Meath ( Division 1 national league winners)

19 80s Meath ( double All Ireland winners ) had Dublin (leinster champions) and Laois ( national league div 1 champions)

1990s Meath ( double All Ireland winners) had Dublin ( All Ireland winner) Kildare ( All Ireland finalist) Offaly ( leinster champions and Division 1 national league champions)

Noughties Dublin had Meath ( All Ireland finalist and leinster champions) Westmeath and Laois ( leinster champions)

2011 -2017 Dublin 5 times All Ireland champions have
0 All Ireland champions to face
0 All Ireland finalist to face
0 Leinster champions to face
0 League 1 div champions to face
0 div 1 opposition
Simply put Dublin have easiest leinster championship ever.

If the Dubs give out about the Kingdom easy route in Munster they are been hypocritical for Dublin have the easier provience ..have the weakest opposition of any All Ireland winner ever since Cavan in the 1930s.

By "historically weak" I mean now it's being portrayed that we have it really easy these days compared to before.

I'm not marching back to the 20s and 30s as they are pretty irrelevant. And personally I think football pre 1980 is practically irrelevant in certain senses... but...

For starter there's at least one more round of game for Dublin to have played in general. And even then it could be 2 due to the inherent bias that gave Kerry and Cork auto SF places and Kerry auto final places in some years.

How anyone can argue with a straight face that the Leinster that Dublin had to navigate in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s came close to being weaker than the gash that the Keengdum faced is beyond me.

Why can't we just all sit back and marvel at what Dublin and Mayo gave us on Sunday?

I think we're better than the 1970s Kerry team. Some don't. But I think the Kerry team in the noughties was probably better than them too. (That hurt to write) *vomits*

Nidgeweasel

Sonny678 wrote: »

I think 2012 was a massive chance for Mayo. No Dublin or kerry in the final. But Donegal did what Kerry did to Mayo in 04 and 06. Blow them away in the first 15 mins. Which they did.

But after that the game settled and Mayo played well . Mayo were actually the better team after the first 15 mins. But the damage was done in the first few mins.

Donegal were very well.organisd . A brillant system under a terrific modern tactician manager. But without that system I think there were weaknesses in that Donegal outfit. Look how they were slaughtered the following year by Mayo. That was highly unusual for reigning champions.

Of All the Ulster winner in the last 25 years I would rate 2012 team the weakest team. The 92 Donegal Team was stronger. So was Tyrone and Armagh and down teams.

I think 2o12 was an example of charismatic individual and county merging as one. Like a movement our a cult for the want of a better word. Donegal players and supporters got behind MCGUINESS and it just clicked . Similar to Loughnane with Clare in 95 and Griffin with Wexford in 96.
It was facinating to watch. McGuiness is one of most interesting GAA figures of recent times. Donegal is a fine county with friendly charming people. It is quite a unique county. I think McGuiness seemed to get the whole county to rise up in that period. Similar to Loughnane and Griffin.

This rhetoric is trotted out all the time now. Mayo were apparently the better team (after they'd conceded 2-1 in 10 minutes.)

It's drivel. They kicked 2 from play and 2 from frees in about 10 minutes near the end of the first half (2 of which were Hail Mary efforts) then offered nothing.

Donegal kept them scoreless for combined total of 24 minutes out of the 35 in the second half and were comfortable throughout. Mayo the better team aye.

And as for the weakest team from the last 25, more drivel. They went to 6 Ulster finals In a row something that nobody else in that period has done. And went to 2 AI finals in 3 years. Something that Derry and Donegal in 92 were unable to do.

They were butchered in 2013 because they were walking wounded and had an enormous reduction in participation in training throughout the year not to mention club championship ran off in the middle of the Ulster SFC. More pertinent to back and say once those problems were sorted out they were back in a final in 2014.

Sonny678

BonnieSituation wrote:

I'm not marching back to the 20s and 30s as they are pretty irrelevant. And personally I think football pre 1980 is practically irrelevant in certain senses... but...

Football prior to 1980 is irrelevant
Football prior to 1980 IS IRRELEVANT
FOOTBALL PRIOR TO 1980 IS IRRELEVANT

THIS HAS TO BE THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY COMMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD UTTERED ABOUT GAA MATTER . TO PROVE A POINT A HUNDRED YEARS OF GAA, 20 DUBLIN ALL IRELANDS HAVE TO BE WIPED AWAY IRRELEVANT. UNBELIEVABLE.

The Talking Bread

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

This rhetoric is trotted out all the time now. Mayo were apparently the better team (after they'd conceded 2-1 in 10 minutes.)

It's drivel. They kicked 2 from play and 2 from frees in about 10 minutes near the end of the first half (2 of which were Hail Mary efforts) then offered nothing.

Donegal kept them scoreless for combined total of 24 minutes out of the 35 in the second half and were comfortable throughout. Mayo the better team aye.
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Mayo kept Dublin scoreless for all but 5 minutes of the first half last year in the drawn match, doesn't mean they were the "better team" over all.

How much did Donegal score in that period?

Dublin scored 9 points that day nine. They obviously scored 2 goals but they were pretty freakish in their concession. (not that it devalues them really)

Sonny678

Nidgeweasel wrote:

This rhetoric is trotted out all the time now. Mayo were apparently the better team (after they'd conceded 2-1 in 10 minutes.)

Nidgeweasel wrote:

It's drivel. They kicked 2 from play and 2 from frees in about 10 minutes near the end of the first half (2 of which were Hail Mary efforts) then offered nothing.

Nidgeweasel wrote:

Donegal kept them scoreless for combined total of 24 minutes out of the 35 in the second half and were comfortable throughout. Mayo the better team aye.

Nidgeweasel wrote:

And as for the weakest team from the last 25, more drivel. They went to 6 Ulster finals In a row something that nobody else in that period has done. And went to 2 AI finals in 3 years. Something that Derry and Donegal in 92 were unable to do.

Nidgeweasel wrote:

They were butchered in 2013 because they were walking wounded and had an enormous reduction in participation in training throughout the year not to mention club championship ran off in the middle of the Ulster SFC. More pertinent to back and say once those problems were sorted out they were back in a final in 2014.

I'm not saying they were a bad team. They were a terrific team. Wonderful achievement in 2012. The defence system was a sight to behold . And McGuiness is a genius.
But the 1992 te was better. 92 team had to face Derry the 1993 All Ireland champions and Down All Ireland champions 91 and 94 year in year out. 3 All Ireland winners in 1 provience. The competitiveness of matchs in Ulster in the early 90s were savage. Proper battles between some of the greatest players teams players and managers to ever play the game. 1994 first round game Down V Derry was as close to a perfect game of football as I ever saw.

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Football prior to 1980 is irrelevant
Football prior to 1980 IS IRRELEVANT
FOOTBALL PRIOR TO 1980 IS IRRELEVANT

THIS HAS TO BE THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY COMMENT I HAVE EVER HEARD UTTERED ABOUT GAA MATTER . TO PROVE A POINT A HUNDRED YEARS OF GAA, 20 DUBLIN ALL IRELANDS HAVE TO BE WIPED AWAY IRRELEVANT. UNBELIEVABLE.

Hmmmm...

Practically irrelevant... In certain senses...

Calm toi.

---

I'm worried you've blown a gasket.

I do worry that your inherent Meath bias is leading you down this odd path.

Nidgeweasel

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mayo kept Dublin scoreless for all but 5 minutes of the first half last year in the drawn match, doesn't mean they were the "better team" over all.

How much did Donegal score in that period?

During that little purple patch of 4 points? They got 1 themselves.

https://youtu.be/WEWo-JKgqWs

Full game there for anybody who wants to educate themselves. Mayo the better team

Sonny678

So is soccer before 1980 irrelevant no best no Pele
is rugby prior before 1980 irrelevant no Lions team 74
Is politics prior to 1980 irrelevant no easter rising no famine no world war 2 no Romans
Was life before 1980 irrelevant.

Unbelievable. I actually saw Barney Rock walking through a Meath Street earlier today. If I knew the above earlier I would have said to Barney your just relevant Barney coz you won an All Ireland in 1983.

Football prior to 1980 is irrelevant.
I have never uttered the following saying in my life to any person before but after reading the above comment I utter word I thought I would never say

Omg omg OMG

BonnieSituation

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

During that little purple patch of 4 points? They got 1 themselves.

https://youtu.be/WEWo-JKgqWs

Full game there for anybody who wants to educate themselves. Mayo the better team

How anyone thought Mayo were the better team that day is beyond me.

Good jesus.

...blanket defence...