The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

Sonny678

Shurimgreat wrote:

Galway have won 6 All-Irelands since 1951. How on earth is this under achieving compared to Mayo?

Galway havent beaten Dublin since 1920s.
Mayo have beaten Dublin in 2006 and 2013 and 2 draws in 2016 and 2017

Galway havent beaten Kerry since 1965
Mayo defeated kerry in 1996 and 2017 and two draws in 2014 and 2017.


Galway havent won a champiomship match in Croke Park in 16 years 2001 to 2017 .
Mayo reaching 6 finals in the same period.

Galway didn't win a championship match in Croke Park between 1984 and 1997.

Mayo reached 3 finals in the same period.

Shurimgreat

Powerhouse wrote: »

Two observations on this - 1) this assumes that Dublin's success is not just part of a cycle which will wane in the future as the current players age. As we saw with Kilkenny hurlers it is amazing what the loss of a few key players can do. Suddenly other players who looked great in a stronger team can look ordinary. Also, while Dublin can be argued to have underachieved in several decades is their current state really likely to be an average level of performance into the future? Is there really enough evidence to write off the entire competition when it wasn't written off by people during the previous decade when Kerry won five All-Irelands?

and 2) Why is the county model a failure because of disparities in resources? Look at a competition like the Champions' League - Real Madrid have won three of the last four competitions. The winner will come from about four clubs the names of which would generally be agreed by most people in advance. The idea that the county model as such is a failure is superficially attractive but when you look at other models the same thing happens. There is no competition where every team has an equal chance of winning and that is usually a question of resources anyway.

As I said, Dublin have finally got their act together. 50 full time coaches, significant funding from the GAA for games development, huge sponsorship deals. The population of Dublin rapidly increases, while it is stagnant or declines elsewhere. For each rural person that moves to Dublin and sets up their home there, its a win for Dublin and a loss for the rural locality. This trend is one way, towards Dublin.

Dublin got their act together eventually and it looks like curtains for everyone else.

The difference between Dublin getting their act together and Westmeath, Carlow or Longford getting their act together is still light years.

Only one county can break the traditional cycle of golden teams and generations, etc and that's Dublin. Dublin have the resources to produce a golden generation every generation.

Its pretty amazing that Dublin are struggling in the hurling though. If they ever decide to get their act together there, they could easily dominate for decades. I suppose the lack of tradition and strong clubs is holding them back.

Powerhouse

Sonny678 wrote: »

Mayo have overachieved with 6 finals compared to other counties .

Laois and Monaghan have not reached a final since 1930s
Kildare have played in 1 final in 90 years
Roscomon have played in 2 finals in 60 years eg 1980 and 1962
Donegal have reached 3 finals in its history
Cavan haven't reached a final in 70 years

When you compare Mayo's record of 6 finals in 15 years. It is an outstanding record.

Why compare Mayo to Laois, to take just one example? Laois have one Leinster title since 1946. Mayo have 24 Connacht titles in the same time-frame. That's the context for Mayo - look at the number of opportunities that have had by being in the last four/eight compared with Laois. Yes, many counties can be found which have not been in an All-Ireland final in decades if ever, but is that a realistic context for judging a county with 46 provincial titles (only Kerry and Dublin have won more meaning only those counties have been in the All-Ireland last four more often and been on the brink of such opportunity with such frequency) and 11 National Leagues? None of those counties you mention compare with Mayo for historical achievement and ongoing potential (Cavan does but their tradition, unfortunately, is no longer a successful one).

JB81

Beating or not beating Dublin or Kerry is not a barometer for success or lack thereof.
Mayo are not successful just because they beat Dublin and Kerry a couple of times. Means nothing if they don't take home the title. They have a good team without doubt, but successful? I don't think so. Maybe a little unlucky recently. They haven't even threatened a league title.

Galway have won 2 All Ireland in the recent past. Just because they didn't beat Kerry or Dublin to win them does mean they don't count.

Mayo have a better team than Galway in the last 10+ years. But they are not delivering on their promise.
Galway had a better team than Mayo for the period before that, and delivered with 2 All-Irelands, success! They hammered the Meath team that hammered the Kerry team in one of them ( i think this was mentioned in a post or two above ).
Prior to that Mayo had a better team than Galway ( as did Roscommon ) around the late 80's mid 90's, but again no silverware, no success!

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

We don't call our county ground Parnell Park for no reason.

Even that concession to a Meathman* and Sonny isn't happy.

Bonniedog wrote: »

As you say up to 40s it was limited championship. Dublin, Kerry, Tipp and Cork won All Irelands in years when there were only 6/7 county teams, and they were club teams. Dubs team in 20s was good team and that was start of mass involvement and big crowds, and the rivalry with Kerry which had political connotations.

I know Paul Rouse has done some good stuff on it, but a lot the history still to be told. GAA actually came close to being destroyed after the Parnell crisis. They had Church and Brits and Ancient Order of Hibernians all trying to put us down.

You will also know Sonny from your own place that much of Dubs/Meath rivalry in football was not so much based on county loyalty but on proximity of clubs along our northern frontier!

I played out in Wild Geese in Oldtown a few times and apparently the far goal is in Meath!

It's nearly 4km from the western goal to the Ashbourne border from the The Orchard grounds.


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*ish

Sonny678

Powerhouse wrote:

Why compare Mayo to Laois, to take just one example? Laois have one Leinster title since 1946. Mayo have 24 Connacht titles in the same time-frame. That's the context for Mayo - look at the number of opportunities that have had by being in the last four/eight compared with Laois. Yes, many counties can be found which have not been in an All-Ireland final in decades if ever, but is that a realistic context for judging a county with 46 provincial titles (only Kerry and Dublin have won more meaning only those counties have been in the All-Ireland last four more often and been on the brink of such opportunity with such frequency) and 11 National Leagues? None of those counties you mention compare with Mayo for historical achievement and ongoing potential (Cavan does but their tradition, unfortunately, is no longer a successful one).

What about Down. Down have only played in 1 final in 24 years. And 3 finals in 50 years.

Galway recent record v Mayo's recent record. Galway havent won in Croker in 16 years. In the same period Mayo have reached 6 finals

Meath haven't reached a final in 16 years. Mayo have played in 6.

Offaly haven't reached a final in 35 years.

Armagh have reached 4 finals in their history 1953 1977 2002 and 2003. ( might be forgetting one other ?)

Cavan 5 titles in 30s 40s 50s . No final for over 70 years.


Are Meath Down Galway Cavan Offaly Armagh not all similar counties to Mayo.

Meath are 4th most sucessful county Galway are 3rd most sucessful county
Down are 6th most sucessful county

Especially Down Galway Meath Cavan. all more sucessful then Mayo.
Offaly have won 3 All Ireland since Mayo's last win

bruschi

Powerhouse wrote: »

Two observations on this - 1) this assumes that Dublin's success is not just part of a cycle which will wane in the future as the current players age. As we saw with Kilkenny hurlers it is amazing what the loss of a few key players can do. Suddenly other players who looked great in a stronger team can look ordinary. Also, while Dublin can be argued to have underachieved in several decades is their current state really likely to be an average level of performance into the future? Is there really enough evidence to write off the entire competition when it wasn't written off by people during the previous decade when Kerry won five All-Irelands?

and 2) Why is the county model a failure because of disparities in resources? Look at a competition like the Champions' League - Real Madrid have won three of the last four competitions. The winner will come from about four clubs the names of which would generally be agreed by most people in advance. The idea that the county model as such is a failure is superficially attractive but when you look at other models the same thing happens. There is no competition where every team has an equal chance of winning and that is usually a question of resources anyway.

just to add to your final point, the NFL has parity. Each team can only spend the same amount on player wages, and the draft ensures that the worst team gets the best available player. Its why you can see some teams turn their organisation around from being last to first within a few years.

Also, AFL has a similar set up. Salary cap impacts and a draft. This years Grand final has 44 players participating who have never played in a final before. Last year the Bulldogs won their first in 60 years. They then didnt make the playoffs this year.

It would be ideal to have a similar set up of both the above, but it could never happen.

Sonny678

JB81 wrote:

Beating or not beating Dublin or Kerry is not a barometer for success or lack thereof. Mayo are not successful just because they beat Dublin and Kerry a couple of times. Means nothing if they don't take home the title. They have a good team without doubt, but successful? I don't think so. Maybe a little unlucky recently. They haven't even threatened a league title.

JB81 wrote:

Galway have won 2 All Ireland in the recent past. Just because they didn't beat Kerry or Dublin to win them does mean they don't count.

JB81 wrote:

Mayo have a better team than Galway in the last 10+ years. But they are not delivering on their promise. Galway had a better team than Mayo for the period before that, and delivered with 2 All-Irelands, success! They hammered the Meath team that hammered the Kerry team in one of them ( i think this was mentioned in a post or two above ). Prior to that Mayo had a better team than Galway ( as did Roscommon ) around the late 80's mid 90's, but again no silverware, no success!

But Galways record in Croker no win
Between 2001 and 2017 16 years
Between 1984 and 1997 13 years.
Is very poor.
If you take away those 4 great year 98 to 01. Galway have been a divsion 2 and sometimes a divsion 3 since 1983 . From 83 to 97. And 01 to 17.

Galway won 4 finals between 56 and 66. And won 7 finals between 20s and 60s. This is the golden years of Galway football. But 2 wins in 50 years. Puts behind the above Galway
1 Kerry 2 Dublin 3 Meath 4 Cork 5 Down / Offaly / Tyrone

Galway in the years 30s to 60s was the years of greatness of Galway football . In the last 50 years has been more patchy.
1920s to 1960s 7 All Ireland titles
71 to 83 lost 4 finals lost 71 73 74 83
84 to 97 No wins in championship in Croker Croker
98 to 01 Galway r back. 3 finals and 2 wins .
01 to 17 No wins in championship in Croker.

Since 66 Galway with exception of 71 to 83 and 98 to 01. Galway have never reached height of the great Galway years 30s 40s 50s 60s

Bonniedog

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Even that concession to a Meathman* and Sonny isn't happy.





It's nearly 4km from the western goal to the Ashbourne border from the The Orchard grounds.


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*ish

Bit closer than that? There black and white things with spots. And that wasn't the WAGS

Sonny678

BonnieSituation wrote:

It's nearly 4km from the western goal to the Ashbourne border from the The Orchard grounds.

I'm very happy that played you football in Meath. It's something you can be proud of til your dying day. Something to tell the grandchildren.

Powerhouse

Sonny678 wrote: »

Are Meath Down Galway Cavan Offaly Armagh not all similar counties to Mayo.

To a point they are though it's well worth noting that half of Offaly and half of Galway are hurling predominant areas. But let's look at it in more detail. All the counties you mention have won an All-Ireland or multiple All-Irelands since Mayo last won one themselves.

To crystallise properly the context for that consider this - all have won less provincial titles than Mayo (some very significantly less) and as such have not found themselves on the threshold of an All-Ireland so often. All have won less All-Ireland Minor and Under-21 titles too (bar Galway who have parity on Under-21 titles).

By almost any metric (they even have more National Leagues than any of these) Mayo have had more opportunity than any of these counties to be successful at All-Ireland Senior level but have failed to do so. Converse to your intention I think, the counties you mention provide an argument that Mayo have underachieved rather than in fact bolstering a case that they have overachieved.

blanch152

Shurimgreat wrote: »

As I said, Dublin have finally got their act together. 50 full time coaches, significant funding from the GAA for games development, huge sponsorship deals. The population of Dublin rapidly increases, while it is stagnant or declines elsewhere. For each rural person that moves to Dublin and sets up their home there, its a win for Dublin and a loss for the rural locality. This trend is one way, towards Dublin.

Dublin got their act together eventually and it looks like curtains for everyone else.

The difference between Dublin getting their act together and Westmeath, Carlow or Longford getting their act together is still light years.

Only one county can break the traditional cycle of golden teams and generations, etc and that's Dublin. Dublin have the resources to produce a golden generation every generation.

Its pretty amazing that Dublin are struggling in the hurling though. If they ever decide to get their act together there, they could easily dominate for decades. I suppose the lack of tradition and strong clubs is holding them back.

The "50 full-time coaches" are for juvenile participation, not for training senior county teams. There is a world of a difference between winning minor All-Irelands and winning senior ones, let alone trying to make the case that having lots of U-10s playing sport for their health inevitably leads to success at senior inter-county level. If that was the case, Crewe Alexander and Southampton would be at the top of the Premier League every year fighting it out for the title.

The country as a whole will be reaping the benefit in years to come for the investment in Dublin GAA through the healthier outcome for children in the capital who were less likely to be sports active than their country cousins prior to the investment.

Bonniedog

Sonny678 wrote: »

I'm very happy that played you football in Meath. It's something you can be proud of til your dying day. Something to tell the grandchildren.

that was me, the other Bonnie, and it was "hurling" of some description

Tombo2001

Sonny678 wrote: »

Meath could become the new Cavan.

Every team outside the big two who had Meaths similar sucess. That sucessful period was followed up with decades of little little sucess. Wexford have never reached the heights of the 4 in a row years. Cavan have never reached the heights of the 40s and 50s again. And it took Galway 32 years in 1998 before they won Sam again after their most sucessful period from 56 to 66.

Meath though have had a capacity in the past to come from nowhere and knock Dublin from their perch. And then become the dominate force in leinster football. This has happened on numerous occasions. But a Dublin are so strong and Meath are so weak. There is no evidence to say this will happen again.

For Meath to do that they need great players , a best of footballer in Ireland type of figure like Jack Quinn and Colm O Rourke to emerge again . And need another great manager like Sean Boylan Fr. Tully and Peter McDermont to emerge on the scene again. Basically Andy McEntee has to be another Sean Boylan or Meaths version of Jimmy McGuiness.

The probality is Meath could now go decades without it sucess. Maybe the old stubborn Meath spirit can again emerge and produce and another great Meath team will mushroom over night. But again there is no concrete evidence to say the above . Meath simply put are in trouble. Hopefully not for the sake of the leinster championship. But there are enough warning sign to indicate the above might be true.

I think Meath and Cavan is a very valid comparison for this reason.

Look at the population of Ireland by county in 1930; compared to now.

The population of Cavan has dropped in the past 100 years while the national population has doubled. Relatively speaking, it is a much smaller county today by population than it was 100 years ago. The drop in its relative population has meant it is unlikely to be a GAA powerhouse again.

Look at what has happened in Meath over the past 30 years. Its population has exploded. I'd be interested in feedback from people living in Meath on this. Its population has exploded but (i) a huge percentage of people living there have large commuting times, which means there is less time available for volunteering in things like GAA and (ii) the larger towns are all ones where really there are more Dublin flags than Meath flags. The county's identity has been somewhat diluted.

Sonny678

Powerhouse wrote:

To a point they are though it's well worth noting that half of Offaly and half of Galway are hurling predominant areas. But let's look at it in more detail. All the counties you mention have won an All-Ireland or multiple All-Irelands since Mayo last won one themselves.

You said "to a point". When someone says "To a point". You can then say you are kind of agreeing with what I am saying. But you are stubborn to admit it. Go on. Powerhouse admit it. They have overachieved. We know you want to. "To a point"

Sonny678

Bonniedog wrote:

that was me, the other Bonnie, and it was "hurling" of some description

Tombo2001 wrote:

Look at what has happened in Meath over the past 30 years. Its population has exploded. I'd be interested in feedback from people living in Meath on this. Its population has exploded but (i) a huge percentage of people living there have large commuting times, which means there is less time available for volunteering in things like GAA and (ii) the larger towns are all ones where really there are more Dublin flags than Meath flags. The county's identity has been somewhat diluted.

Tombo 100% correct. I agree totally
I don't like it. But it's the truth.

Utopia Parkway

Sonny678 wrote: »

When you compare Mayo's record of 6 finals in 15 years. It is an outstanding record.

It is but there are no prizes for 2nd place.

Galway lost 3 finals in a row in the early 70's and that team is more or less completely forgotten about. Even in Galway.

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

Bit closer than that? There black and white things with spots. And that wasn't the WAGS

I know GAA in Meath is in a down-slope at the minute. But using Dalmatians as goals is cruel!

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Not to drag this off-topic... but...

https://goo.gl/maps/BiACnYQHa5k

JB81

Sonny678 wrote: »

But Galways record in Croker no win
Between 2001 and 2017 16 years
Between 1984 and 1997 13 years.
Is very poor.
If you take away those 4 great year 98 to 01. Galway have been a divsion 2 and sometimes a divsion 3 since 1983 . From 83 to 97. And 01 to 17.

Galway won 4 finals between 56 and 66. And won 7 finals between 20s and 60s. This is the golden years of Galway football. But 2 wins in 50 years. Puts behind the above Galway
1 Kerry 2 Dublin 3 Meath 4 Cork 5 Down / Offaly / Tyrone

Galway in the years 30s to 60s was the years of greatness of Galway football . In the last 50 years has been more patchy.
1920s to 1960s 7 All Ireland titles
71 to 83 lost 4 finals lost 71 73 74 83
84 to 97 No wins in championship in Croker Croker
98 to 01 Galway r back. 3 finals and 2 wins .
01 to 17 No wins in championship in Croker.

Since 66 Galway with exception of 71 to 83 and 98 to 01. Galway have never reached height of the great Galway years 30s 40s 50s 60s

Your initial point was 'Mayo are over achieving'.. but you are only basing that on their comparison to Galway.
They just have a better team than Galway at the moment.
They have so many chances to reach the pinacle of the sport and failed, this is definitely not over achieving. 6 finals etc... is impressive, very impressive and a good team, but over achieving, definitely not, over achieving when compared to Galway at present, yes definitely, because they have a better team at the moment.
Which was not always the case. And the time when Galway had a better team they were over achieving compared to Mayo, they delivered 2 All Irelands.
The Galway team of the 60's is one of the best ever, Galway will probably never reach those heights again, its not easy.. Just ask Mickey Harte. But there is no shame in that.

You can't just say Mayo are over achieving compared to one team. They are over achieving compared to probably most teams in Ireland at the moment in the recent past, bar Dublin ,Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, Cork, Meath, Galway, or basically anyone who has won an All Ireland since 1951...

They are also under achieving compared to their own County team of the 50's... just like you say above 'Galway have never reached height of the great Galway years 30s 40s 50s 60s'

So look lets call a spade a spade, they are not over achieving. They are competing admirably, and have been unfortunate to be at their best in years at the same time as this Dublin team. But they are always pretty much beat by a better team, Kerry in the 00's, Meath before that etc...

DoctaDee

Bonniedog wrote: »

Bit closer than that? There black and white things with spots. And that wasn't the WAGS

The Naul & Garristown would be closer to the border than Oldtown, similarly Stamullen on the other side of the wall - but Oldtown has that remote feel - reminds me of those old sci-fi films when the compass just goes apeshít for no reason, you've really no idea where ya are ..

BonnieSituation

DoctaDee wrote: »

The Naul & Garristown would be closer to the border than Oldtown, similarly Stamullen on the other side of the wall - but Oldtown has that remote feel - reminds me of those old sci-fi films when the compass just goes apeshít for no reason, you've really no idea where ya are ..

The back pitch of Sarsfields is even closer to the border. But you don't see us worrying. Amazing how little we worry about Kildare.

Bonniedog

DoctaDee wrote: »

The Naul & Garristown would be closer to the border than Oldtown, similarly Stamullen on the other side of the wall - but Oldtown has that remote feel - reminds me of those old sci-fi films when the compass just goes apeshít for no reason, you've really no idea where ya are ..

Good jesus. A chap can't tell a story anymore

Black and white things were big dogs, we think..........

DoctaDee

Bonniedog wrote: »

Good jesus. A chap can't tell a story anymore

Black and white things were big dogs, we think..........

.. nope they're called Fingal Ravens ..

Powerhouse

Sonny678 wrote: »

You said "to a point". When someone says "To a point". You can then say you are kind of agreeing with what I am saying. But you are stubborn to admit it. Go on. Powerhouse admit it. They have overachieved. We know you want to. "To a point"

If I wanted to agree with you I'd do so. I said the are similar counties to Mayo "to a point" in that they are rural counties and several of them are also football predominant counties.

I said to "to a point" only because the comparison is not valid beyond a certain stage. For example, two of the counties have a strong hurling tradition - Galway and Offaly have won several All-Ireland hurling titles since Mayo last won an All-Ireland. Moreover, maybe Kildare and Meath are no longer classic rural counties - in the sense that Mayo is - given that they are part of the Dublin sprawl.

By comparison with all those counties Mayo are underachievers at All-Ireland Senior level. The figures bear this out. Mayo outstrip them by almost any other measure except in their ability to win All-Ireland Senior titles. By comparison with all those counties they have the infrastructure and resources to do so but have come up short. That's the very definition of underachievement.

Bonniedog

DoctaDee wrote: »

.. nope they're called Fingal Ravens ..

These ones didn't try to bite or engage in unnatural relations.

Sonny678

Powerhouse wrote:

If I wanted to agree with you I'd do so. I said the are similar counties to Mayo "to a point" in that they are rural counties and several of them are also football predominant counties.

Powerhouse wrote:

I said to "to a point" only because the comparison is not valid beyond a certain stage. For example, two of the counties have a strong hurling tradition - Galway and Offaly have won several All-Ireland hurling titles since Mayo last won an All-Ireland. Moreover, maybe Kildare and Meath are no longer classic rural counties - in the sense that Mayo is - given that they are part of the Dublin sprawl.

Powerhouse wrote:

By comparison with all those counties Mayo are underachievers at All-Ireland Senior level. The figures bear this out. Mayo outstrip them by almost any other measure except in their ability to win All-Ireland Senior titles. By comparison with all those counties they have the infrastructure and resources to do so but have come up short. That's the very definition of underachievement.

I was only kidding by saying to a point.

Mayo are underachieving with All Ireland wins.
But getting to finals on such regular basis is very impressive.
Leaving their failure to win to won aside 6 final appearances in 15. Is a very high rate. Outside kerry and Dublin I would say it is one of the highest number of final appearances a county has ever had in the history of gaelic football in a short period of time. The only two other counties I would say got to so many finals in short period other then kerry and Dublin. Would have been Cavan in the 30s and 40s and early 50s. And Meath reaching 7 finals in 14 years between 1987 and 2001. The difference being of course Cavan and Meath won. So that's why saying Mayo overachieved
. Because they didnt win means saying they overachieved is a hollow statement. But 6 finals in 12 years is one of the highest number of final appearances ever in the history of game.

Maybe what I should say. That the team of 04 and 06 overachieved and 96 and 97 team overachieved. The 11 to 17 are probaly the greatest never to win Sam.
But 04 and 06 were not as good an outfit. And 96 97 overachieved reaching two finals. They had a quality defence and midfield but a poor forward line. 96 97 had div 1 defence but div 2 maybe 3 forward line. Of McMemanin Casey Finnerty and Horan. Horan was the only one who could be considered a good forward. But compared to Meaths in 96 it was poor. Meaths was full of all stars and one of the best forwards lines of the last 20 years. Eg Tommy Dowd Trevor Giles Graham Geragthy Evan Kelly Brendan Reilly Ollie Murphy.

The 96 97 team was built on good defenders and super fitness. The 11 and 17 team has superplayers all over the field. And 04 and 06 was an inferior outfit to 11 to 17 team. Maybe saying the teams of 04 and 96 overachieved reaching 4 finals in 96 97 04 and 06.

Sonny678

Lads I'm going to take break a from boardsGaa. It's ain't working for me on boards. I think I have annoyed and pissed off all the Dubs here. That was never my intention. The Dubs have a wonderful team, a great team. The best I have seen in the last 30 years and one of the greatest ever. I didn't mean to demean their great achievements. Maybe deep down I'm just frustrated of my own counties weak opposition to the Dubs currently.

I seem to go on these long rambling messages full of stats all over the place. I seem not be able to respond with concise 5 or 6 line sentences. It has to be an essay. So apologises for the bad punctuality and grammar at times. I can lose the run of myself.

Anyway my time on boards gaa. Is like I'm going into the local pub for a 1 or two quite pints. But I end up getting mad drunk and make a complete show of myself . And start fighting with all the regular customers in the bar and get thrown out.

So to all the top Dubs like Bonniedog, Blanch152, Davedanon, and Talking Bread ( Kildare man) Powerhouse ( where ever your from) and JB81 amd naughb4 ,Tombo 2001 and the gentleman who is called Stoner from Donegal and many more.

Take care all. Enjoy the break of closed season and before you know it , the Byrne Cup McKenna Cup Fbd cup will be all up and running again.

Enjoyed immensely all the brillant conversations and great debate I have read here with all the many great gaels here. I will keep an eye on how thing are going from time time.( To make sure the Bonniedog is behaving to himself.) But their will no rambling messages from me no more .( A sigh of relief is heard all around the boards)

Anyway Keep it real PEACE
Sonny
PS Meath for Sam 2028.

Bonniedog

Sonny, you should be writing for a paper or putting it in books.

You are mine of info and well proud of your county. Don't sometimes have the time to properly engage with you but you are one of best posters on any GAA forum.

And seriously, someone with your knowledge really should be looking at bigger picture, as in book or blog.

Irellevant

naughtb4 wrote: »

I think thats what makes it tougher, before if three of the best teams in the country were in Ulster Kerry would only play one of them, with the qualifiers you tend to get the best teams in the last 4, not the singularly best team in each Province

I agree , this was just stating I don't totally hate the system

seligehgit

Ah Sonny hang tough,you're a breath of fresh air.You've an encyclopedia like knowledge and are within your rights to be a proud Royal man!

Not to sure if Stoner was aware he's a native of Donegal!

Stoner

Lol. Don't tell the father in law or RSF

Sonny hang around. It's all good stuff.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Sonny, your posts are fascinating.

Bonniedog

seligehgit wrote: »

Ah Sonny hang tough,you're a breath of fresh air.You've an encyclopedia like knowledge and are within your rights to be a proud Royal man!

Not to sure if Stoner was aware he's a native of Donegal!

But to back up other posts. sonny should stay.

I've gotten a few bans which I took on chin!, but this forum is good and mostly civilized and people from all counties have their say. Even jayop if he ever returns from some godforsaken place in Tyrone.

Bonniedog

Stoner wrote: »

Lol. Don't tell the father in law or RSF

Sonny hang around. It's all good stuff.

go back to Letterkenny!

Stoner

Bonniedog wrote:

go back to Letterkenny!

At least they understand me there

seligehgit

Bonniedog wrote: »

But to back up other posts. sonny should stay.

I've gotten a few bans which I took on chin!, but this forum is good and mostly civilized and people from all counties have their say. Even jayop if he ever returns from some godforsaken place in Tyrone.

Where's he gone to?The lone Red Hand supporter excepting Bonnie Situation is missed,he might return to the pitch if Colm Kavanagh grabs an All Star!

blanch152

Sonny678 wrote: »

Lads I'm going to take break a from boardsGaa. It's ain't working for me on boards. I think I have annoyed and pissed off all the Dubs here..

Sonny, you certainly haven't annoyed or pissed off me. I don't agree with all of your opinions, but they are your opinions, and you are entitled to express them and get into healthy debate.

Us Dubs really miss the Meath rivalry too, wish they were just a little bit better, but not too much

JB81

You'll be missed on this thread Sonny, never pissed me of or annoyed me at all..
Unfortunately for you, you will have to wait to probably 2029 for Meath for Sam.
Sure aren't Tyrone going to win it in 2028 when young Canavan ( Son of God as he is known by then ) will already be in the hall of fame

Amprodude

Seriously guys this Dublin team have barely fallen over the line in All Ireland finals and people saying they are unbeatable the dream team etc. Come on ffs only for Mayo pressing the self destruct button on the last 2 All Irelands we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. This team are just average at their greatest and because Leinster is so weak right now makes Dublin look alot better than what they really are. The Kerry and Tyrone teams of the 00's, the 80's Cork and Meath teams/Kerry team of the 1970's would maul this team single handedly.

Bonniedog

Ampro, the thing about winning is you win.

Five All Irelands out of seven.

Oh yes ,,,,,

corny

Bonniedog wrote: »

Ampro, the thing about winning is you win.

Five All Irelands out of seven.

Oh yes ,,,,,

Strange to me that people never understand what it takes to win these games.

Dublin have beaten Mayo and Kerry consistently by slim margins and some still don't see a pattern in it. The 'what ifs' for the opposition always take centre stage. Surely winning by one point and never losing by one point can't be written off as sheer luck (or bad luck for the opposition).

aidan24326

You could argue that the current Dublin team are brushing aside some fairly weak opposition. However the Kerry team of the late 70s/early 80s had it just as easy (if not easier).

At the end of the day you can only beat what's put in front of you. Are Tyrone a bad team? Or did Dublin just make them look bad? I'm inclined to go for the second option.

Whether Dublin are the best team we've seen I don't know. But I don't think there's ever been a stronger squad. Never been a manager that can comfortably leave the likes Connolly, Flynn, Brogan and McMenamin on the bench. Not to mention MDM and Cormac Costelloe. All 6 of them would pretty much walk onto almost any other county team. It's that strength in depth that sets them apart and it's something Mayo don't have.

The_Kew_Tour

Sonny you were great at getting your point across.

May have disagreed with a lot of it but you gave your reasons

Paulzx

Amprodude wrote: »

This team are just average at their greatest .

There are plenty of good arguments to be made that this Dublin team might not compare favourably with the great teams of other generations.
It is easy to dispute monikers such as "the greatest team ever" when it comes to this Dublin team and i don't buy into it myself (yet)

However, to describe a team that wins a 3 in a row as "average" is just plain daft. The difficulty in winning a 3 in a row is obvious when you look at how infrequently it is done.

The word average is defined as "a standard or level that is considered to be typical or usual

Dublin are a lot of things but they are categorically not "average"

Shurimgreat

Look hats off to Dublin, they usually hold their composure and that's crucial in the dying minutes of a game.
On the otherhand, Mayo have been continually let down by their composure which has probably cost this current team 2 or 3 AIs.
They should have beaten Dublin in 2013, 2016 and 2017 with a little more composure and better tactics. Basic individual errors badly let them down (2016 own goals and 2017 sending off). Basic tactical errors let them down in 2016 (goalie swap) and 2013 (leaving on players who were not playing well or leaving players marking injured Dublin players).
2014 we should have beaten Kerry if we managed Donaghy better.
That said we have a shallow pool of players to choose from compared to Dublin and while Dublin seem to be able to refresh their panel with ease and rotate players in and out with ease, we struggle.

I don't believe in bad luck or curses. You make your own luck and tactics decide most things. Composure under pressure is a huge asset in sport and is often the difference between victory and defeat.

Mayo will continue to learn. But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

But to back up other posts. sonny should stay.

I've gotten a few bans which I took on chin!, but this forum is good and mostly civilized and people from all counties have their say. Even jayop if he ever returns from some godforsaken place in Tyrone.

Worse again. He lives in some sort of godforsaken place in Sligo.

aidan24326

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Mayo will continue to learn. But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

While Dublin may have a big population, a sizeable percentage of that population would have little or no interest in GAA.

Dublin always had the biggest population and didn't really dominate the game at any stage until now (aside from the very early days). What they have now is an exceptional squad of players, but that won't always be the case. Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

mickmackey1

aidan24326 wrote: »

Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

Kilkenny don't have multi-million sponsorships tho.

corny

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Kilkenny don't have multi-million sponsorships tho.

Or a football team to fund.

Shurimgreat

aidan24326 wrote: »

While Dublin may have a big population, a sizeable percentage of that population would have little or no interest in GAA.

Dublin always had the biggest population and didn't really dominate the game at any stage until now (aside from the very early days). What they have now is an exceptional squad of players, but that won't always be the case. Like what's happened with Kilkenny hurlers, they'll come back to the pack eventually.

The same applies to every county. In Cork, gaelic football, hurling, rugby, soccer, basketball, rowing, boxing, athletics etc etc are fairly major sports.
Its the same in every county. We don't just play gaelic football in Mayo, there are countless other sports played as well. So lets say 25% of the population are into GAA in Mayo and 25% are into GAA in Dublin, either way Dublin is going to have a huge advantage.