The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

Powerhouse

Shurimgreat wrote: »

But again I would add, its very difficult to expect a county with the population of Mayo to compete with a county the population of Dublin. To come close is a phenomenal achievement.

Mayo has a similar population to Kerry and 34 All-Irelands less so population is not the issue.

Sonny678

Thanks for all the nice words lads.
I do appreciate it.
And remeber the O Bryne Cup , FBD cup, McKenna Cup are just a couple of months away and then straight back into the league , and everything starts up again.
Keep up the great work.
Keep it real til then
PEACE
Sonny
PS
Meath for Sam 2039

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Thanks for all the nice words lads.
I do appreciate it.
And remeber the O Bryne Cup , FBD cup, McKenna Cup are just a couple of months away and then straight back into the league , and everything starts up again.
Keep up the great work.
Keep it real til then
PEACE
Sonny
PS
Meath for Sam 2039

See you in January. Though non doubt you'll be having a gander on here. when the football draw is done come October.

Sonny678

Of course I will BonnieSituation.
And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

ProudDUB

Amprodude wrote: »

Seriously guys this Dublin team have barely fallen over the line in All Ireland finals and people saying they are unbeatable the dream team etc. Come on ffs only for Mayo pressing the self destruct button on the last 2 All Irelands we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. This team are just average at their greatest and because Leinster is so weak right now makes Dublin look alot better than what they really are. The Kerry and Tyrone teams of the 00's, the 80's Cork and Meath teams/Kerry team of the 1970's would maul this team single handedly.

BonnieSituation

Sonny678 wrote: »

Of course I will BonnieSituation.
And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

That would be glorious. But hardly likely, as Meath and Dublin were both in the SF in Leinster this year we'll all get byes into the QF so will be apart until at least the SF in 2018.

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Of course I will BonnieSituation. And sure maybe a Meath v Dublin first round match might come up in the leinster championship 2018 draw in October. We haven't had one of them in a long long time. Bring the Dubs to Navan. I can just see it now. Hill 16 on tour into the Royal County .

Last time that happened it as an under 21 match a few years ago right?

I remember Meath had 2 defenders from Ratoath, blondly lads, one was excellent on Mannion at left half back, the full back was great then too.
Neither made the senior team. I can safely say that the Meath u21 full back was far better than the senior fullback that year and the next, 2014 I think

Sonny678

Stoner, I think you might be talking about Simon Carty from.Dunderry and David McQuillan from St Pats from U21 2013. team. The 2014 Under team 21 had two Ratoath lads Conor McGill and Brian Power.

I think the guy your on about is Carty. Played in challenge games and Byrne cup but yet to make the step up. Yes your right he was tenacious in the tackle. McQuillan was on the senior panel last year . The Ratoath lads are already regulars. Probaly be Meaths full back Conor McGill and Brian Power will be center back for coming years . Heaslin from Westmeath destroyed McGill in the infamous game in 2015 v Westmeath. But since that he has settled in the position. And was our best defender last year. Along with Keoghan I think we have 2/3 of a good full back line.

Meaths problem for the last 15 years is the half back line. We have not had a top class wing back since Martin O Connell ( Even though Pat Reynolds jnr was a great grafter) and we have not had a top class centre back since Liam Harnan. Half back line has been a problem area since 2001. Until we sort this out we are going nowhere fast. Divsion 2 for another couple of years. All the top teams have top class half back lines eg Dublin Mcarthy McCaffrey, Mayo Boyle Keegan Donegal Lacey Thompson.

Amprodude

ProudDUB wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

The Talking Bread

Amprodude wrote: »

ProudDUB wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

"No way"

I'm far from a Dublin fan but that is an "opinion" that is pretty silly. Putting it mildly.

The whole post makes no sense at all?? Think about it.

One: Dublin won 3 All Irelands between 2011 and 2015 (yet Donegal beat them in that period which means that they were completely shown up.

2. Errors cost you All Irelands. Its not just bad luck, its bad performance trait. Being clinical and not making silly errors isn't good "luck", it is a sign of a good team.
You are essentially twisting these points around which makes no sense.

3. 5 All Irelands in 7 Championships....."lucky to be there" ?
They are lucky to have certain luxuries to support them but" "lucky to be there".....what does that even mean!!

Stoner

Sonny678 wrote:

Stoner, I think you might be talking about Simon Carty from.Dunderry and David McQuillan from St Pats from U21 2013. team. The 2014 Under team 21 had two Ratoath lads Conor McGill and Brian Power.

It was McQuillan and McGill. Think I posted about them here

Bonniedog

Amprodude wrote: »

No bitterness at all. Just calling a spade a spade. Donegal 2011-14 team showed up this team. Mayo had the measure too but silly errors really did cost them. Do I think Dublin will win 4 in a row? No way. In a way Dublin are lucky to be where they are now.

So if winning a three in a row and five from seven is not sign of perhaps a slightly great team, then what would they need to do to convince you?

Dancing bears? Dean Rock win the Eurovision? Gavin to lead final assault on Islamic State?

blanch152

Bonniedog wrote: »

So if winning a three in a row and five from seven is not sign of perhaps a slightly great team, then what would they need to do to convince you?

Dancing bears? Dean Rock win the Eurovision? Gavin to lead final assault on Islamic State?

You will find that some of the most bitter posters on here refuse to define what a great team's achievements should be for fear that Dublin will meet their target.

STB.

Stoner wrote: »

How the hell can anyone pick the best team ever! We've all only seen about 4 of them

Too true.

A wind up merchant. Probably from Meath, who knows fúck all about gaelic football.

They are the best team I have seen in my lifetime.

Bonniedog

I've seen all teams since early 70s. Have no problem saying that most formidable were Kerry from 1978 to 1985. Mostly unbeatable in all of those years except Cork and of course in 1982 by the biffos. Rossies gave it a shout in 1980. Dubs were beaten docket by 1978, missed them in 1983 and never really looked liked winning in '84 or '85.

This Dublin team is close, and are not finished.

Meath were good then as were Cork, Rossies for a year or two and Offaly. Mayo might be recalled as similar to those four in that they came close to beating the big two but never did. Not until later. Whether Mayo do none of us knows.

In a final I mean.

BPKS

Its hard to compare a team with one that played 30 years ago.

But if Dublin win another All Ireland in 2018 or 2019, I think it would be hard to say they are not better than the Kerry team of the 00s who won 5 AIs, including 3 in 4 years, in that decade.

corny

Can we change the thread title to most successful team. Surely thats the only metric worth a **** in a comparison over the ages. And even then its weak imo.

Dublin would massacre the Kerry team of the 70's if you could arrange the match tomorrow.

mickmackey1

corny wrote: »

Dublin would massacre the Kerry team of the 70's if you could arrange the match tomorrow.

Most of them are over 60 to be fair.

djPSB

In time, when this Dubs team is compared to other great teams, it will always be remembered that two of the wins were against a very mentally fragile Mayo team. Therefore, they will never be considered the greatest.

Bonniedog

djPSB wrote: »

In time, when this Dubs team is compared to other great teams, it will always be remembered that two of the wins were against a very mentally fragile Mayo team. Therefore, they will never be considered the greatest.

That's bollix, pardon the French.

Mayo have been within kick of a ball against Dublin and beaten them in 2012. Dublin had to come back against Kerry from what looked like losing positions in 2011, 2013 and last year.

Dublin in 1978 and 1979 when Kerry began their four in a row just collapsed after 20 minutes. You can not seriously argue that this Dublin team has had easier road. Were not at the races in 1984 and threw a few shapes the year after but never looked like winning. Same with Tyrone in 1986.

djPSB

Bonniedog wrote: »

That's bollix, pardon the French.

Mayo have been within kick of a ball against Dublin and beaten them in 2012. Dublin had to come back against Kerry from what looked like losing positions in 2011, 2013 and last year.

Dublin in 1978 and 1979 when Kerry began their four in a row just collapsed after 20 minutes. You can not seriously argue that this Dublin team has had easier road. Were not at the races in 1984 and threw a few shapes the year after but never looked like winning. Same with Tyrone in 1986.

Mayo scored two own goals last year. Unheard of usually.

This year, Vaughan sending off, COC missing frees, Doherty missed goal. Dubs were there to be buried both years only that they were up against a mentally weak opponent.

ThunbergsAreGo

djPSB wrote: »

Mayo scored two own goals last year. Unheard of usually.

This year, Vaughan sending off, COC missing frees, Doherty missed goal. Dubs were there to be buried both years only that they were up against a mentally weak opponent.

When was the last time a team beat 4 Division 1 teams en route to winning the All Ireland?

Bonniedog

djPSB wrote: »

Mayo scored two own goals last year. Unheard of usually.

This year, Vaughan sending off, COC missing frees, Doherty missed goal. Dubs were there to be buried both years only that they were up against a mentally weak opponent.

Mayo gave away two early goals last year and could still have won.

I really don't buy this "mentally thing." Mentally weak is when you get beaten in the first round and disappear. Not when you get to semi finals and finals for whatever amount of years.

One team wins, another loses. It is not sign of moral deficiency!


And of course when Dublin are beaten you will be first on the "Dublin bottled it" bandwagon. Right.

Paulzx

djPSB wrote: »

Mayo scored two own goals last year. Unheard of usually.

This year, Vaughan sending off, COC missing frees, Doherty missed goal. Dubs were there to be buried both years only that they were up against a mentally weak opponent.

Scoring 2 own goals is not an indication of a team being "mentally weak"

Scoring two own goals is poxy bad luck.

......................and what the f&*k does this "mentally weak" crap actually mean??

djPSB

Paulzx wrote: »

Scoring 2 own goals is not an indication of a team being "mentally weak"

Scoring two own goals is poxy bad luck.

......................and what the f&*k does this "mentally weak" crap actually mean??

10 All Ireland Final appearances without a win would be described as mentally weak.

Bonniedog

djPSB wrote: »

10 All Ireland Final appearances without a win would be described as mentally weak.

Getting to them could also be described as being mentally strong!

Same was said about Dublin footballers for years, and Galway hurlers and many teams in other sports.

It is a cliché but the old adage of "Its not how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up," sums up sport to me more than pop psychology writing off of teams and individuals as "losers" and "chokers" and such like.

I am no great admirer of Mayo because they are main rivals so there is a bit of an edge, but I would never disparage them. And what is more I've seen one Dublin player after a game with them who looked like he'd done 15 rounds with Ali. He certainly, and I doubt any other Dub or Kerry or Tyrone player, looks on them as anything other than ferocious opponents.

If they have a fault I would say its same as teams mentioned above that they don't have same firing power. Galway hurlers only won when they developed a serious range of attackers other than Canning. That's technic, not psychology.

djPSB

Bonniedog wrote: »

Getting to them could also be described as being mentally strong!

Same was said about Dublin footballers for years, and Galway hurlers and many teams in other sports.

It is a cliché but the old adage of "Its not how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up," sums up sport to me more than pop psychology writing off of teams and individuals as "losers" and "chokers" and such like.

I am no great admirer of Mayo because they are main rivals so there is a bit of an edge, but I would never disparage them. And what is more I've seen one Dublin player after a game with them who looked like he'd done 15 rounds with Ali. He certainly, and I doubt any other Dub or Kerry or Tyrone player, looks on them as anything other than ferocious opponents.

If they have a fault I would say its same as teams mentioned above that they don't have same firing power. Galway hurlers only won when they developed a serious range of attackers other than Canning. That's technic, not psychology.

Over the years there have been clear signs of mental weakness.

All Ireland won in 96 only for John Madden let a 70 yard kick bounce over the bar.

2016, had the Dubs rattled, were afraid to win when the opportunity presented. That was a tired Dubs team. Dubs scored one point from play on the first half I think. Greatest team me auntie.

This year. A free in 40 yards from goal, a man extra and Vaughan goes and hands every advantage possible back to the Dubs. COC with the free miss.

Mental weakness.

Bonniedog

You are using Mayo as Aunt Sally to attack Dublin. Why not just be straight about it?

Any of those matches could have gone either way, just as could most finals I've seen.

Were Kerry mentally weak in 1982? Tyrone in 1995? Tipp in 2009?...

I could go on but I think I see your real point in all of this.

The Talking Bread

Was watching some of the Vincents match last night. Jesus, some of the passing from Connolly (particularly with Quinn) and his general movement and ease on the ball was sublime. Uncompetitive match but a joy to watch (and this is from someone that can't stand the player from a Kildare/Mayo fan perspective!

It is a pity he got himself embroiled in all this this season as you want to see players like that. Dubs were getting byes into the semis and indeed final regardless as it turned out so his inclusion wouldn't have been the difference in any game but it's a season wasted from a general GAA fans viewing perspective

Bonniedog

I don't recall Dublin getting any walkovers, but we won't pursue that!

He was brilliant last night. One pass to Varley from 65/70 yards was amazing. Dropped it straight into his hands. Seems to have become a bit better at handling the cr@p he gets every game, club or county.

Which was why he got involved in that silliness against Carlow. He was not the initiator. A few times last night he had 3/4 Syls players acting the bollix any time he had the ball, but he didn't react.

The Talking Bread

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't recall Dublin getting any walkovers, but we won't pursue that!

He was brilliant last night. One pass to Varley from 65/70 yards was amazing. Dropped it straight into his hands. Seems to have become a bit better at handling the cr@p he gets every game, club or county.

Which was why he got involved in that silliness against Carlow. He was not the initiator. A few times last night he had 3/4 Syls players acting the bollix any time he had the ball, but he didn't react.

Ha, you just did pursue it! You know well what I mean!

I essentially mean "he wasn't needed" as it transpired. It is a hindsight comment, but I am essentially saying Dublin eased through their QF and semi and the Kildare match was the only game that offered that bit of competitiveness. As much as there was plenty of quality on display, regardless, watching Connolly would have contributed a little more to some of the tediousness of an uncompetitive game.

That is a comment out of respect to Dublin, so no need to read it any other way!

He could arguably be touted as one of the main reasons they won the second half against Mayo, and therefore, the All Ireland though! Could have done with him missing that game!

That is kind of what I mean when I saw the Vincents match last night? Would they have won if they were deprived of his services? I haven't a clue, but probably so but at least it added a glean on an uncompetitive* game (*well from the second quarter onwards, at least) when you have players like him on the field!

Bonniedog

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ha, you just did pursue it! You know well what I mean!

I essentially mean "he wasn't needed" as it transpired. It is a hindsight comment, but I am essentially saying Dublin eased through their QF and semi and the Kildare match was the only game that offered that bit of competitiveness. As much as there was plenty of quality on display, regardless, watching Connolly would have contributed a little more to some of the tediousness of an uncompetitive game.

That is a comment out of respect to Dublin, so no need to read it any other way!

He could arguably be touted as one of the main reasons they won the second half against Mayo, and therefore, the All Ireland though! Could have done with him missing that game!

That is kind of what I mean when I saw the Vincents match last night? Would they have won if they were deprived of his services? I haven't a clue, but probably so but at least it added a glean on an uncompetitive* game (*well from the second quarter onwards, at least) when you have players like him on the field!

He was possibly the key to winning the AI as he established some sort of dominance on centre half line where Kilkenny had been cleverly neuteralised more or less by Mayo.

Indeed, it could be argued that same thing happened to CK last night when Crokes didn't give him an inch. Sullivan and Mannion must have been taking notes!

Kilkenny is great player but Connolly is classic centre half. Matches his intelligence and skill with willingness to go through the tackles. Reminds me a bit of his Vinnies club mate Hanahoe but Hanahoe was more anonymous, and possibly cleverer!

There is story about Hanahoe one day just dragging the opposing centre half back out of position and creating space for Mullins to come through. Hardly touched the ball so his marker was delighted with himself and pointed that out at the end.

Hanahoe's response was something on lines of "We beat you by 12 points."

Stoner

Bonniedog wrote:

Indeed, it could be argued that same thing happened to CK last night when Crokes didn't give him an inch. Sullivan and Mannion must have been taking notes!

That young lad had a great game on him Cillian O'Shea