Commentary/opinion thread on 'cyclist down' threads - mod note post #1

Taxuser1

What's the point of this post?

folks, i've moved the discussion on the other thread to here - please keep any debate on the whys and wherefores of 'cyclists down' threads here, well wishes only in the other thread.

jimmycrackcorm

Taxuser1 wrote:

What's the point of this post?

I don't know what the point is as you wrote your post.

ted1

Taxuser1 wrote: »

What's the point of this post?

It reminds us how fragile we are on the road and to be aware and take caution whenever we are out

Taxuser1

ted1 wrote: »

It reminds us how fragile we are on the road and to be aware and take caution whenever we are out

I don't see it that way at all. It won't make me ride my bike any differently tomorrow. I don't need a reminder that vehicles are dangerous or that cycling is and can be dangerous as I see that every day and understand the risks. I find these posts and the videos of crashes posted add to an ever growing fear culture among cyclists and those who would like to cycle but are afraid to because they hear of these reports. I'm a daily commuter and I also train and race so hearing of another's misfortune is not going to change anything I'll have to put up with tomorrow that I accept when getting on the bike.
99% of us will get up on a bike and return home tomorrow without incident. There'll be very few who will take heed of this thread reporting a rider down.

Wishbone Ash

Taxuser1 wrote: »

... I find these posts and the videos of crashes posted add to an ever growing fear culture among cyclists...

....... There'll be very few who will take heed of this thread....

Contradicting yourself??

And, why post in a thread you don't wish to get publicity? You're just adding oxygen to it.

magicbastarder

maybe it's just empathy for a fellow two wheeled traveller.

anyway, i hope the poor sod is OK.

loudymacloud

Taxuser1 wrote: »

I don't see it that way at all. It won't make me ride my bike any differently tomorrow. I don't need a reminder that vehicles are dangerous or that cycling is and can be dangerous as I see that every day and understand the risks. I find these posts and the videos of crashes posted add to an ever growing fear culture among cyclists and those who would like to cycle but are afraid to because they hear of these reports. I'm a daily commuter and I also train and race so hearing of another's misfortune is not going to change anything I'll have to put up with tomorrow that I accept when getting on the bike.
99% of us will get up on a bike and return home tomorrow without incident. There'll be very few who will take heed of this thread reporting a rider down.

Just dont read the post then...problem solved.

Thud

it also highlights potential black spots/areas.

hope cyclist is ok

Taxuser1

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Contradicting yourself??

And, why post in a thread you don't wish to get publicity? You're just adding oxygen to it.

not sure I'm contradicting myself. I asked why the need to post that information at all. One poster said that it will make us more careful. I'm only disagreeing on that point and with massive sympathy for the rider down. I think it adds to fear. Not sure what the second sentence refers to, this is after all an opinions based forum.

smacl

Thud wrote: »

it also highlights potential black spots/areas.

hope cyclist is ok

Also shows a bit of solidarity for a fellow cyclist who may just be reading this thread. Hope they're undamaged as is their bike.

Chuchote

Taxuser1 wrote: »

What's the point of this post?

With the number of people riding bikes killed on the roads, 'cyclist down' posts highlight danger spots and are an expression of 'We are all brothers and sisters of the road'. If you prefer to ignore them, feel free.

Taxuser1

Chuchote wrote: »

With the number of people riding bikes killed on the roads, 'cyclist down' posts highlight danger spots and are an expression of 'We are all brothers and sisters of the road'. If you prefer to ignore them, feel free.

ok, i get the cyclists banding together and "cyclist down" is some sort of new wave biking Angelus.

A poster said it is to highlight black spots? That spot at 5.30 in an industrial area with thousands leaving work at the same time is probably in most cyclists (and pedestrians and motorists) consciousness a "must be careful" place. I'd put Ranelagh front to back and sideways as a permanent black spot. But it never stops us cycling or the way we cycle. Aren't we always vigilant anyway?
Its only an opinion but reporting a cyclist down, as well meaning and sympathetic as it might be, just adds to the "what might happen" and it can make certain riders more nervous on the roads. It's those type of riders who are slamming on brakes, looking after themselves first on the road rather than thinking of what might be moving from behind them or to the side of them, sometimes with actions that may cause as much damage to fellow cyclists as a car. My only point was that fear of what may happen intensifies with these type of "cyclist down" or mass pile up or crash fest in A4 threads and posts. Same reason I can't stand seeing these race crashes posted on social media, just all hyping up the fear.

henryporter

Taxuser1 wrote: »

ok, i get the cyclists banding together and "cyclist down" is some sort of new wave biking Angelus.

A poster said it is to highlight black spots? That spot at 5.30 in an industrial area with thousands leaving work at the same time is probably in most cyclists (and pedestrians and motorists) consciousness a "must be careful" place. I'd put Ranelagh front to back and sideways as a permanent black spot. But it never stops us cycling or the way we cycle. Aren't we always vigilant anyway?
Its only an opinion but reporting a cyclist down, as well meaning and sympathetic as it might be, just adds to the "what might happen" and it can make certain riders more nervous on the roads. It's those type of riders who are slamming on brakes, looking after themselves first on the road rather than thinking of what might be moving from behind them or to the side of them, sometimes with actions that may cause as much damage to fellow cyclists as a car. My only point was that fear of what may happen intensifies with these type of "cyclist down" or mass pile up or crash fest in A4 threads and posts. Same reason I can't stand seeing these race crashes posted on social media, just all hyping up the fear.

Perhaps you need to take a deep breath and relax - these posts are intended, as others have already stated, to display sympathy and solidarity with a member of the most vulnerable road users in this country, not to give you or anyone else a soap box to go on a rant over. If you don't like it please don't read or respsond.

papu

Hope they're ok

Taxuser1, you're fairly delusional in your thoughts and thankfully outnumbered.
I don't know why you clicked into this thread knowing full well what it contained.
Have a cup of herbal tea and relax.

magicbastarder

henryporter wrote: »

If you don't like it please don't read or respsond.

mod hat on - that's getting a little too close to back seat modding. you may not like his/her opinion, but as long as everyone stays nice there should be room for everyone at the inn.

mod hat off - i did once start a thread like this - partly to let any other people here who may have seen it that the cyclist seemed to be relatively OK; at least the DFB guys who stretchered her away looked fairly happy with how she was.

OleRodrigo

I completly agree with TaxUser1.

We don't know the circumstances of this incident, much less if the person is happy to be discussed on public forum.Usually, somebody will come on to report what happened if they so wish. It can be a useful way to find out how matters are dealt with and to offer helpful advice/ sympathy. If there is a blackspot it should to be reported to the local council.

Also, increasingly there is a strong imbalance between rational points of view and emotive digital group hugs, such as this thread. It means the quality posters will eventually leave and the forum will suffer. I mean look at this:

Taxuser1, you're fairly delusional in your thoughts and thankfully outnumbered.
I don't know why you clicked into this thread knowing full well what it contained.
Have a cup of herbal tea and relax.

Hows that for a passive aggressive attack from someone who hasn't even addressed the topic ?

Lumen

I'm with the cranks too. Solidarity is just another ingroup/outgroup bias.

edit: in my will there's an explicit request for the executor to report any generic RIP posts that might crop up :pac:

tomasrojo

I don't really like the "cyclist down" threads either. I generally don't read them. I can see the motivation and the good intentions, but they just make me unsettled without really being helpful, from my point of view anyway.

tomasrojo

Taxuser1 wrote: »

99% of us will get up on a bike and return home tomorrow without incident.

That would, mathematically, be a most catastrophic day in Irish road safety!

(Well, if incident means death or serious injury. Several hundred in one day?)

smacl

Lumen wrote: »

I'm with the cranks too. Solidarity is just another ingroup/outgroup bias.

So you're expressing solidarity with the cranks eh, just another ingroup/outgroup :pac:

yosser hughes

OleRodrigo wrote: »

I completly agree with TaxUser1.

We don't know the circumstances of this incident, much less if the person is happy to be discussed on public forum.Usually, somebody will come on to report what happened if they so wish. It can be a useful way to find out how matters are dealt with and to offer helpful advice/ sympathy. If there is a blackspot it should to be reported to the local council.

Also, increasingly there is a strong imbalance between rational points of view and emotive digital group hugs, such as this thread. It means the quality posters will eventually leave and the forum will suffer. I mean look at this:



Hows that for a passive aggressive attack from someone who hasn't even addressed the topic ?

I agree with the OP and all of. the above
I cringe when I the "cyclist down" thing. You're not in some kind of Vietnam war

magicbastarder

we need some sort of bracelet a cyclist can wear. 'if found unconscious, please - no mention of this on boards'.

John_Rambo

I just thought it was genuine concern. I never looked that deep in to it to them to find fault/offence/embarrassment etc…

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

we need some sort of bracelet a cyclist can wear. 'if found unconscious, please - no mention of this on boards'.

This made me laugh quite loudly.

Chips Lovell

Tend to agree with the OP. I sometimes find all the negativity disheartening. For me, cycling is incredibly safe and I'd have no hesitation in recommending it to others. But I know from talking to non-cyclists, the main reason they cite for not cycling to work is that they think it's dangerous. And its often other cyclists who perpetuate this notion.

Chuchote

Maybe it should be a single thread, then; those who are offended could look the other way?

AndrewJRenko

Chuchote wrote: »

Maybe it should be a single thread, then; those who are offended could look the other way?

Good idea.

Chips Lovell

I don't think anyone's offended, more it's people questioning their utility or whether they send out the wrong message.

smacl

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

I don't think anyone's offended, more it's people questioning their utility or whether they send out the wrong message.

Difficult to know what the right message is though, with campaigns such as Stayin' Alive at 1.5 clearly implying that dangerous overtaking is regularly placing cyclists in mortal peril. The RSA adds similarly declare cyclists as vulnerable road users which also implies danger. It would be interesting to know for a regular cyclist what is the probability of them having a serious accident over a lifetime of cycling, and how this possibility can be minimised. It seems like some pretty basic instruction for all road users could remove certain potential hazards (e.g. as a cyclist don't get caught on the inside of large vehicles, don't undertake potentially left turning traffic, for drivers allow space to overtake, beep if you're drive a wide vehicle approaching a blind corner on a narrow road, etc...) I'm somewhat biased as I'm currently still recovering from a collision with a car so would be of the opinion that cycling, while largely safe, has its hazards which can be minimised.

tomasrojo

smacl wrote: »

It would be interesting to know for a regular cyclist what is the probability of them having a serious accident over a lifetime of cycling

Don't know about serious injury, but fatalities for Ireland used to be about 12 fatalities per 1000 million km travelled.

If you assume a frequent (by Irish standards) cyclist of 5000km per year, that's about 16700 years of travel before a fatality.

(Did that in a hurry; might be wrong!)

(Very sorry to hear about your incident too.)

smacl

tomasrojo wrote: »

Don't know about serious injury, but fatalities for Ireland used to be about 12 fatalities per 1000 million km travelled.

If you assume a frequent (by Irish standards) cyclist of 5000km per year, that's about 16700 years of travel before a fatality.

(Did that in a hurry; might be wrong!)

(Very sorry to hear about your incident too.)

So were we to allow ~20 years of 5000km per annum for our regular cyclist (or more likely 40 at 2500km), 1 in 835 such cyclists will die as a result of a cycling accident. Not exactly dangerous but not entirely risk free either. Even allowing that the risks of not cycling might be an order of magnitude higher, it still seems reasonable to look at ways of minimising the risks of cycling. I'd also guess that serious accidents would outnumber deaths by a significant multiple but this is just a guess.