Commentary/opinion thread on 'cyclist down' threads - mod note post #1

John_Rambo

Chuchote wrote: »

Maybe it should be a single thread, then; those who are offended could look the other way?

This. Maybe with a warning to people that are embarrassed, nervous or unsettled by this type of thing?

Beasty

They can be very useful for thanks whoring

RobFowl's count hit the roof when he reported on my "incident" a while ago* :pac:

Did get quite a lot myself when he came down earlier this year...

*Just in case anyone does not know, I had a bit of a crash

DanDublin1982

It's perhaps my own misunderstanding as I've only been posting here a couple of years but when I clicked into a cyclist down thread here recently I was suprised to find a link to a story about a cyclist who had actually been killed. To my mind cyclist down would generally refer to an incident someone here had witnessed/passed by with a more thoughtful thread to deal with the actual passing of someone.

I think both threads have their place but imo they really should be distinct from one another.

Beasty

We usually only find out about the condition of the cyclist some time after the incident.

My own view is any threads whether involving injury or indeed the rare incidents where someone is tragically killed is a thread should be for condolences/good wishes. Clearly where we know it's someone from this forum involved a lot of posters will want to contribute in this way.

We cannot allow any discussion of cause or fault. That's the job of the authorities and any speculation here could be prejudicial to any investigation.

My view is there is little point in starting any threads concerning incidents except to offer those best wishes or condolences. Wider discussions on particular problem spots should be kept separate and should not be started in the immediate aftermath of such an incident as that in itself will invite speculation.

All My Stars Aligned

Never really seen the point of these threads either. Believe it or not but the majority of Irish cyclists don't post on or read the 410 forum on Boards.ie so most likely will never receive the best wishes of posters.

For some reason I've always felt they are a bit is an online version of people gawking at roadside accidents as they pass.

Very different however if the cyclist is a member of the Boards cycling community..., chances are though they aren't.

AndrewJRenko

Do we really need consensus to allow these threads to go ahead? There are loads of threads here that I've no interest in - TdF etc - but I don't begrudge these threads for others. I just don't click into them.

Lusk_Doyle

By the "logic" of this thread, nobody should ever talk about anything that happened. Ever.

Idleater

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

By the "logic" of this thread, nobody should ever talk about anything that happened. Ever.

It'll also put paid to any "Anyone any info on the race in XYZ next weekend" that degenerate rapidly into "wouldn't race that crashfest after last time" and "A5's need to be chaperoned because they wobble everywhere causing crashes" etc.

guanciale

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

I don't think anyone's offended, more it's people questioning their utility or whether they send out the wrong message.

Utility is not an absolutist concept. While it can be deduced from revealed preferences it cannot be measured. So people who do the grouphug/kudos thing are revealing the derive utility from that - how much, no idea.
Likewise the folks who dont do it derive less utility from that type of behaviour - but that does not mean utility doesent exist for others.

Taxuser1

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

By the "logic" of this thread, nobody should ever talk about anything that happened. Ever.

No, the thread has slightly de-railed from my initial offerings. A general sympathy thread has its place and most agree. But the meat of the argument was that they do little to promote the positive side of cycling and in my opinion lead to collective scare mongering. Talking about events when there are eye witness reports and sources with direct access to what may have happened is different and maybe the mistakes that can be attributed to those incidents can help to lessen future incidents. All for hearing of the whys and hows in crash incidents in an effort to help reduce them. But it needs to be more than generalisation, one poster was calling out that location as a possible future black spot ffs.

Beasty

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do we really need consensus to allow these threads to go ahead? There are loads of threads here that I've no interest in - TdF etc - but I don't begrudge these threads for others. I just don't click into them.

Don't think we need a consensus at all. However in this case the topic, very inappropriately in my view, took over an active "cyclist down" thread. I think it's a discussion worth having if only to encourage posters to think before starting or contributing to such a thread.

magicbastarder

i think it's quite a human reaction from someone who starts such a thread in a 'there but for the grace of god go i' sense.
as mentioned earlier i started one a few months ago - and i did spend a good 20 minutes or half hour in a 'should i or shouldn't i?' internal debate; thinking 'what value is this to people knowing this happened?'
in the end i did post it, justifying it to myself as 'maybe other posters who may have seen it may be happy to know that the cyclist seemed to have been OK'; still not sure i made the right call, but in the end, if i didn't, i suspect/hope the cyclist would not mind. they probably had more pressing problems to worry about.

Fireball XL5

Cyclist down - I have just lost the will the live having read all of this.

Self reported - no need to post elsewhere.

tomasrojo

smacl wrote: »

So were we to allow ~20 years of 5000km per annum for our regular cyclist (or more likely 40 at 2500km), 1 in 835 such cyclists will die as a result of a cycling accident. Not exactly dangerous but not entirely risk free either.

Yeah, that's a fair way of looking at it. Those are pretty small odds though. For example, your chances of dying of a cardiac event by age 75 is about 20%. Even allowing 60 years of 2500km travel, your chances of dying on the road are less than 0.2%.

(You know this already, but there are no risk-free modes of transport. Or activities in general. Showering has a far from non-zero risk of fatality.)

smacl wrote: »

I'd also guess that serious accidents would outnumber deaths by a significant multiple but this is just a guess.

They're definitely higher. I don't think it's clear what they actually are in Ireland.

magicbastarder

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yeah, that's a fair way of looking at it. Those are pretty small odds though. For example, your chances of dying of a cardiac event by age 75 is about 20%. Even allowing 60 years of 2500km travel, your chances of dying on the road are less than 0.2%.

and as we know, increasing your chance of falling into that 0.2% significantly reduces your chances of falling into the other 20%.

greenspurs

I think the "cyclist down" threads are pointless.
Do they have "Car Down" threads in the motoring forums? "Jockey Down" in the horse racing etc ?

Its just some people need to have something to say about most things. "Oh look, someone is hurt" Logs on ...
The online version of gossiping outside the local shop . "Did yaa hear about ..."

Online "Best Wishes" and "Goodwill" from (mostly) online strangers mean nothing to someone that has being involved in an incident with a vehicle , i would guess.
I just dont read the threads that i dont like/agree with .. simple

tunney

Its like the poxy "patch of ice on fairway cycle path" threads from a few years back - totally ****ing pointless.

Actually its worse, its internet rubbernecking.

NeedMoreGears

I'm not overly keen on them as I don't know the person involved and if I did I'd be offering condolences in person. I have clicked on them in the past and don't think I will anymore.

Chuchote

So how do you all feel about the Near Misses thread?

smacl

Chuchote wrote: »

So how do you all feel about the Near Misses thread?

Near misses thread is people talking about first hand experience, this is more talking about the experiences of others, which if you think of it as rubbernecking is not so different from watching and commenting on a bad crash in a sporting event. No shortage of that on here. Cynically, you could say that a large part of our news media is dedicated to reporting of unfortunate and traumatic incidents that have befallen other people that we don't know. Taking an interest in these things is clearly part of human nature. Whether you consider it voyeuristic or a show of concern probably say more about yourself than anyone else. My take on it is that it is a bit of both.