Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

Forge83

dobman88 wrote: »

When I was talking to him he said the commitment was too. He wouldn't be able to play for Rathmore and when he was the Kerry lads wanted him playing for them in goals.

I think he's a fantastic keeper and did a great job for the minors but he's playing well for Rathmore. I didn't even know he scored the 1-6 before my previous comment saying he's a good forward.

I think he knows he'd be up against it going for a forward spot on the Kerry panel. He's a very level headed young lad.

Surely if he is our best goal keeper he should be accommodated where possible.
If he wants to play outfield for his club allow him.

dobman88

Forge83 wrote: »

Surely if he is our best goal keeper he should be accommodated where possible.
If he wants to play outfield for his club allow him.

Agree 100%. Have a look at the terrace talk Facebook page. Weeshie commented on it last week.

Same As

Did someone mention Gooch?

dobman88

Same As wrote: »

Did someone mention Gooch?

Yeah me. It was gonna be an April Fools set up but realised it may not come across online so deleted it.

Almost caught the.brother with it today and the Kildare GAA Facebook page said they had John Doyle lacing up again. Bit of fun.

dobman88

dobman88 wrote: »

Agree 100%. Have a look at the terrace talk Facebook page. Weeshie commented on it last week.

Here it is for those not on FB or can't be arsed looking.

Weeshie here:

Kerry Goalkeepers??

Rumor has it that Shane Murphy the outstanding Rathmore goalkeeper declined an invitation to join the Kerry panel as goalkeeper. He was brilliant at under age and promised to be the next senior star between the posts. However,”Mr Rumor” again informed us that Shane declined the offer as he was playing great football for his club in the forwards and wanted to stay out field which was not acceptable to the Kerry selectors so a brilliant prospect was lost.

So if what “Mr Rumour” has told us is true Shane should be playing in goal for Rathmore to be accepted by the seniors so does this mean that you most play for your club in the position Kerry picks you. Go down this line and just think about it, are all three other Kerry players playing in the very same positions for club and county?? No way.

Johnny Culloty one of Kerry’s greatest keepers won 4 senior county championship medals playing, “not in goal” but corner forward. Eamon Fitzgerald, Dr Crokes, Teddy Bowler, Glenbeigh/Glencar, Eamon o Donoghue Ballylongford all played in goal for Kerry in championship and out field for their clubs. Readers here might know more in this situation and at under age also. Love to hear your thoughts on this. Loyalty to your club means you can not be chosen for your county. Are am I all wrong?
- Weeshie

Same As

One swallow doesn't make a summer but a lot of people I've been chatting to who were at the Dingle Rathmore game today reckon Shane might be worth his salt as a forward. Offers something different to what we have in the panel as it stands.

ciarriaithuaidh

Same As wrote: »

One swallow doesn't make a summer but a lot of people I've been chatting to who were at the Dingle Rathmore game today reckon Shane might be worth his salt as a forward. Offers something different to what we have in the panel as it stands.

He has had some good club games as a forward, it's true. Has a massive right boot and is a good long range free taker. Think he's a good bit off County Senior level though myself.
He has never played a county game as a forward but I've seen him play Sigerson with UL as a forward and overall he didn't really cut the mustard which to me is a fair indication of where his ability as a forward lies.

As a goalkeeper however I rate him highly and I think it would be regrettable and short-sighted by him if he turned down the chance to play there for the county. It's his best shot at it by far and I think he could regret it hugely in years to come if he didn't at least give it a go.

Bass Reeves

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

He has had some good club games as a forward, it's true. Has a massive right boot and is a good long range free taker. Think he's a good bit off County Senior level though myself.
He has never played a county game as a forward but I've seen him play Sigerson with UL as a forward and overall he didn't really cut the mustard which to me is a fair indication of where his ability as a forward lies.

As a goalkeeper however I rate him highly and I think it would be regrettable and short-sighted by him if he turned down the chance to play there for the county. It's his best shot at it by far and I think he could regret it hugely in years to come if he didn't at least give it a go.

It is hard to know the full story. Do the County want him to play in goals for his club?? If so I can see his issue as well if you are on the county panel you will not play for club until championship. For lads that are on the extended panel this will become an issue over time spending 4-5 months of the yaer sitting on a bench for maybe 10-15 minutes game time 1-2 time during that period.

Maybe he wanted to be released back to the club for certain games during the season. Lads are not fools look at Sean O'Se last year spend a season sitting on the bench no game time with Club or County until September. County managers are getting too greedy they want to control the lives of very young lads that are after all amatures. Some are getting wise to this and are choosing different paths

dobman88

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

He has had some good club games as a forward, it's true. Has a massive right boot and is a good long range free taker. Think he's a good bit off County Senior level though myself.
He has never played a county game as a forward but I've seen him play Sigerson with UL as a forward and overall he didn't really cut the mustard which to me is a fair indication of where his ability as a forward lies.

As a goalkeeper however I rate him highly and I think it would be regrettable and short-sighted by him if he turned down the chance to play there for the county. It's his best shot at it by far and I think he could regret it hugely in years to come if he didn't at least give it a go.

He wants to play for Kerry and would happily play in goals. But the management want him playing in goals for Rathmore and that's not gonna happen.

Don't think Shane can be blamed at all here for turning it down. It's more short sighted by Fitzmaurice and Co imo

wonga77

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Maybe he wanted to be released back to the club for certain games during the season. Lads are not fools look at Sean O'Se last year spend a season sitting on the bench no game time with Club or County until September. County managers are getting too greedy they want to control the lives of very young lads that are after all amatures. Some are getting wise to this and are choosing different paths

This sums it up. Playing for the county requires a huge commitment affecting your work life and social life.I can see how a level headed person would realise that he won't be able to contribute to the club even if hes well down the pecking order with the county. Playing for Kerry is not the be all and end all for some fellas and I can understand that

keane2097

'The three games a year we let you play for your club you have to be in goals or else you can't play in goals for the county team'.

If the above is what has been said to Ryan those responsible should be shot out of a cannon.

dobman88

keane2097 wrote: »

'The three games a year we let you play for your club you have to be in goals or else you can't play in goals for the county team'.

If the above is what has been said to Ryan those responsible should be shot out of a cannon.

Exactly. And he's not even guaranteed a game for Kerry so why would he want to miss out on all that ball with the club.

Prop Joe

Was at both double headers in Austin Stack Park this weekend,The Intermediate game was entertaining,Quality not great but plenty drama.

Stacks v KOR - David Moran never togged and KOR struggled without him..The county guys didnt really stand out at all.Man of the Match was probably Jack O Shea at centre back for Stacks.Hard to believe that Tommy Walsh wouldnt improve the Kerry team.He was excellent throughout

Dingle v Rathmore - The Paul Geaney show,He scored 3 goals and was involved in all the scores,Had a super game.Shane Ryan is a big man Dingle found him hard to handle,Would love to see him get a run between the sticks for Kerry.I can see why Rathmore want to play him out the field as they have a very talented keeper in Padraig McCarthy,His save from Conor Geaney was the highlight of the game.Mikey Geaney never togged for Dingle

Crokes v An Gaeltacht - No Fionn Fitz for the Killarney men but ran out comfortable winners in a non event.Michael Burns probably the pick of the county men on show

wonga77

Prop Joe wrote: »

Was at both double headers in Austin Stack Park this weekend,The Intermediate game was entertaining,Quality not great but plenty drama.

Stacks v KOR - David Moran never togged and KOR struggled without him..The county guys didnt really stand out at all.Man of the Match was probably Jack O Shea at centre back for Stacks.Hard to believe that Tommy Walsh wouldnt improve the Kerry team.He was excellent throughout

Dingle v Rathmore - The Paul Geaney show,He scored 3 goals and was involved in all the scores,Had a super game.Shane Ryan is a big man Dingle found him hard to handle,Would love to see him get a run between the sticks for Kerry.I can see why Rathmore want to play him out the field as they have a very talented keeper in Padraig McCarthy,His save from Conor Geaney was the highlight of the game.Mikey Geaney never togged for Dingle

Crokes v An Gaeltacht - No Fionn Fitz for the Killarney men but ran out comfortable winners in a non event.Michael Burns probably the pick of the county men on show

Was that Ardfert Mitchels? Saw a short video on WhatsApp earlier, looked feisty alright!

Forge83

dobman88 wrote: »

He wants to play for Kerry and would happily play in goals. But the management want him playing in goals for Rathmore and that's not gonna happen.

Don't think Shane can be blamed at all here for turning it down. It's more short sighted by Fitzmaurice and Co imo

It’s a disgrace really. What other county players have been given an ultimatum that they have to play in certain positions for their clubs?
If he is our best goal keeper and wants to play for Kerry, he should be playing.
He also adds a bow to the cross with the ability to kick 45s and long range frees.

Fitzmaurice giving plenty of leeway to other players like Donaghy for example. Nothing wrong with a bit of flexibility btw.

As another poster also mentioned Tommy Walsh, I think he deserves another run on the panel.

ciarriaithuaidh

Forge83 wrote: »

It’s a disgrace really. What other county players have been given an ultimatum that they have to play in certain positions for their clubs?
If he is our best goal keeper and wants to play for Kerry, he should be playing.
He also adds a bow to the cross with the ability to kick 45s and long range frees.

Fitzmaurice giving plenty of leeway to other players like Donaghy for example. Nothing wrong with a bit of flexibility btw.

As another poster also mentioned Tommy Walsh, I think he deserves another run on the panel.

Look, Donaghy has 13 seasons of Inter-county senior football under his belt, has played in 7 All Ireland finals, won 4 of them. Shane Ryan has played a sum total of 4 games in goals in 4 years, correct me if I'm wrong there but as far as I'm aware Padraic McCarthy has been in goals for Rathmore regularly since 2015, Shane had a disagreement with U21 management in 2016 and Eoghan O'Brien played in goals, returning last year and playing the 4 games of the u21 campaign in goals. Only the Galway and Clare games and 1st half of Cork game, were any sort of test being honest last year.
So, 2.5 real games in goals in 4 years and people are moaning when he is asked to play in goals with his club to get him ready to (possibly) take on Dublin, Mayo etc in big games in Croke park?

Sorry lads, I've been critical of Fitzmaurice on plenty, but he's well within reason to ask for more out of Ryan if he wants to get a run in goal for Kerry.
If he wants to continue to play in the forwards for Rathmore, that's his call and Rathmore's. I can see it from their viewpoint in that they are getting decent use of their resources the way things are. It's an awkward situation all things considered, but for Ryan - if he wants to play Senior with Kerry, he has to focus on being a goalkeeper..at least until he gets a series of games under his belt in goals. Then if he was sharpened up enough there might be leeway to play outfield with the club.

Anyway, currently looks like he's going to continue outfield with the club so we better hope Murphy and Kelly can produce the goods for Kerry. I Thought some of the kickout moves in the first half of the Dublin game were good and showed progress.

Forge83

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Look, Donaghy has 13 seasons of Inter-county senior football under his belt, has played in 7 All Ireland finals, won 4 of them. Shane Ryan has played a sum total of 4 games in goals in 4 years, correct me if I'm wrong there but as far as I'm aware Padraic McCarthy has been in goals for Rathmore regularly since 2015, Shane had a disagreement with U21 management in 2016 and Eoghan O'Brien played in goals, returning last year and playing the 4 games of the u21 campaign in goals. Only the Galway and Clare games and 1st half of Cork game, were any sort of test being honest last year.
So, 2.5 real games in goals in 4 years and people are moaning when he is asked to play in goals with his club to get him ready to (possibly) take on Dublin, Mayo etc in big games in Croke park?

Sorry lads, I've been critical of Fitzmaurice on plenty, but he's well within reason to ask for more out of Ryan if he wants to get a run in goal for Kerry.
If he wants to continue to play in the forwards for Rathmore, that's his call and Rathmore's. I can see it from their viewpoint in that they are getting decent use of their resources the way things are. It's an awkward situation all things considered, but for Ryan - if he wants to play Senior with Kerry, he has to focus on being a goalkeeper..at least until he gets a series of games under his belt in goals. Then if he was sharpened up enough there might be leeway to play outfield with the club.

Anyway, currently looks like he's going to continue outfield with the club so we better hope Murphy and Kelly can produce the goods for Kerry. I Thought some of the kickout moves in the first half of the Dublin game were good and showed progress.

To be fair I was only using Donaghy as an example of flexibility.

This is a genuine question. Is playing in goal for Rathmore any way reflective of the inter county game? Would working with a goal keeping coach with the Kerry set up not be far more beneficial..

Also this is a young team. I don’t think many people are expecting an All Ireland from this in the next few years but after that would have huge expectations. As a young player himself Shane Ryan has to be part of that long term plan if he is the best goal keeper.
If Fossa decided to play David Clifford midfield do you think Fitzmaurice would make the same demands. The answer is no because everybody knows Clifford would adapt no problem as he is a natural forward. I don’t see why the same can’t be said for Ryan.

brocbrocach

Cluxton played outfield plenty for his club

wonga77

Did Diarmuid Murphy play outfield for Dingle?

D'Agger

Would be of the opinion that a player aspiring to represent Kerry in goal, should present himself for selection by playing in goal for his club. Fair enough stating Fossa could put Clifford midfield, between the sticks is a different ball game, You'd want to be practicing your skills in that area if you're going to play there for your county, coming up against superior opposition

keane2097

D'Agger wrote: »

Would be of the opinion that a player aspiring to represent Kerry in goal, should present himself for selection by playing in goal for his club. Fair enough stating Fossa could put Clifford midfield, between the sticks is a different ball game, You'd want to be practicing your skills in that area if you're going to play there for your county, coming up against superior opposition

In fairness this is reasonable enough at a fairly basic level, but if we think about the reality of the situation here we are talking about a guy who was good enough to be on the panel as a GK last year, asked to be again this year, but on the proviso that he must play in goals for his club.

This would amount to either three or max four Club Championship games between now and whenever Kerry are knocked out. It would realistically make 0% difference to how good he would be in goals for Kerry.

The management's stance here is 'unless you play three games in April in goals for Rathmore you won't be sharp enough to play in goals for Kerry in the league (which is in Feb and March) and championship this year'.

ciarriaithuaidh

Forge83 wrote: »

To be fair I was only using Donaghy as an example of flexibility.

This is a genuine question. Is playing in goal for Rathmore any way reflective of the inter county game? Would working with a goal keeping coach with the Kerry set up not be far more beneficial..

Also this is a young team. I don’t think many people are expecting an All Ireland from this in the next few years but after that would have huge expectations. As a young player himself Shane Ryan has to be part of that long term plan if he is the best goal keeper.
If Fossa decided to play David Clifford midfield do you think Fitzmaurice would make the same demands. The answer is no because everybody knows Clifford would adapt no problem as he is a natural forward. I don’t see why the same can’t be said for Ryan.

Yes, playing in goals with your club is relevant. If it weren't would Shane Murphy (who 3 years ago was sub goalie with Kilcummin lets not forget) be in the Kerry panel? He made a very tough but pragmatic decision 2 years ago and look where he is now. He was in a tougher position in that he wasn't even starting for his club despite being a Kerry u21, but still.

I think continuing this debate is pointless as nothing is going to change for the moment is it really?

One point you hit upon there though - goalkeeping coach. Who is the Kerry Goalkeeping coach now that Diarmuid Murphy is gone or is there one?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Kickouts aren't the only aspect of goalkeeping but management needs to get something going on this front. We stood like statues during the league campaign on our own kickouts and made the keeper's job very difficult.

Most other counties at least look like they've worked on kickouts. We don't.

Bass Reeves

Playing in goals at club level is totally different to county level. If anything bad habbits can and will be picked up. It is unlikely any club team will put the effort into kickouts that county team have to. There are advantages to a goalie playing outfield as well, being more involved in the game, him being a free taker and general footpassing and comfortable on the ball. From watching the league it is quite possible goalie's will have to carry the ball out field a bit to allow for to make space and to make them selves available as an extra man at time as teams try to free themselves up to get the ball forward.

Any club management should rightly refuse point blank requests from county managment regarding the same. This is the thin end of the wedge after a while they will want defenders playing in defence only for clubs and maybe not allowing clubs to maximise there player strenght.

Radio5

There will be expectation based on the sheer volume of talented players coming through in Kerry. It is 4 years since 2014 and realistically we should be seeing some major input from that team now into the senior set up. The question is do this management team have what it takes to maximise the return from those players?

It's all very complacent and cosy saying that young players got a chance in the League, it was great to see that of course, but look what happened last year? We actually won the League beating the best team in the land. But by championship time, we were back to the same old same old Groundhog day, all the way to the shambles of Mayo games.....

The_Honeybadger

Radio5 wrote: »

There will be expectation based on the sheer volume of talented players coming through in Kerry. It is 4 years since 2014 and realistically we should be seeing some major input from that team now into the senior set up. The question is do this management team have what it takes to maximise the return from those players?

It's all very complacent and cosy saying that young players got a chance in the League, it was great to see that of course, but look what happened last year? We actually won the League beating the best team in the land. But by championship time, we were back to the same old same old Groundhog day, all the way to the shambles of Mayo games.....

From that team Brian O’Beaglaoich and Micheal Burns look to be starters now, or will be very close. We know the story with Shane Ryan and the pick of the stable Mark O’Connor is in Australia.

Too early to say with Tom & Barry O’Sullivan from Dingle, Corma Coffey, Andrew Barry or Killian Spillane. Not sure any of the others will make it tbh. It should be noted that Sean O’Shea, Clifford and Foley all played in later teams and have already come through and are probably starters now. You can’t bring too many through together either so there is no need to panic.

If we can get 2-3 from each of the winning teams that would be enough. It’s sometimes the case that players that didn’t star at underage level turn out to be the best senior players as well, see Paul Murphy and Conor McManus as notable examples.

I can’t see Fitzmaurice going back to the older guys now. As above we will have 4-5 new faces in the starting 15 this year, that’s plenty IMO.

mrsnrub2.0

Forge83 wrote: »

Who here follows the club football scene strongly?
What players do you think are good enough to be included on the Kerry squad that currently are not?
Could Tommy Walsh ever return?
What is the story with Shane Ryan? Goalie or is he strong enough to be considered outfield?

How does Tommy look at club level?

keane2097

mrsnrub2.0 wrote: »

How does Tommy look at club level?

He's on a serious tear of form since the second half of last season. Flying currently.

Forge83

mickeyk wrote: »

I can’t see Fitzmaurice going back to the older guys now. As above we will have 4-5 new faces in the starting 15 this year, that’s plenty IMO.

I’d hope you are right about 4-5 new lads starting but I can’t see it happening with Fitzmaurice. Personally I can’t even see him starting Clifford! He might put a few of them in Munster but as soon as it’s Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone etc he will revert to the old guns.

Forge83

keane2097 wrote: »

He's on a serious tear of form since the second half of last season. Flying currently.

We could revert to the Twin towers attack of Walsh and Donaghy with Geaney, Clifford and O Donoghue Feeding off of them. Scary prospect!