Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

mystic86

One step forward, 5 steps back.

With all the excitement and anticipation this year with the talk of the youth, the pace, the directness, the desire etc. what we saw today was a kick in the gut.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice should be utterly ashamed of himself for sending his team out to play like that!!

With one game our whole season has changed. Now, if we do manage to beat Monaghan next weekend, it is most likely we finish 2nd in the group, and face Dublin in a semi final and that most definitely will be the end of us this year (if not before that).

How EF could send them out to play like that is utterly incomprehensible and hugely depressing. I am sick to death of EF.

wonga77

Huge ask to get a result in Clones next weekend. Too many passengers on this team, JOD living off the hype of a few years ago, offers nothing. Same ole subs as usual far too predictable.
Fair play to Clifford, the only plus from a horrendous display.
I have zero sympathy for Fitzmaurice, he has alienated the players from the club scene and has made this bed for himself. He doesn't seem to have learnt a single thing from the last few years

mystic86

Special mention for Clifford, 1-5 today, 1-4 from play - at the end of last year the talk was will Clifford be brought up to Senior for 2018, and if so will he be able to make the step up successfully... we now find ourselves in the position where Clifford is our main man. Startling to think about, serious praise must go his way.

FourFourRED

wonga77 wrote: »

JOD living off the hype of a few years ago, offers nothing.

Very harsh.

ciarriaithuaidh

FourFourFM wrote: »

Very harsh.

It’s a tad harsh but not unwarranted either. Not once today when he got the ball in 1 v 1 situations, did JOD even look to take on his man. This happened on 3/4 occasions at least. 2014 JOD would have immediately looked to get outside the shoulder and head for goal. Look at his goal v Galway in 2014 if example needed. He just doesn’t look anywhere near that level sadly. I’d love to be proved wrong but I wonder has he fully gotten over the shoulder issues?

In general today was brutal. Tactics, positioning, changes all rubbish by management.
Poor work-rate, movement and decision-making from players on the field then, which management can’t totally be blamed for. Paul Geaney, who I rate very highly and who is usually a very smart player, did 2 things which summed the performance up: 1.Tried to flick the ball up on a couple of occasions and lost it. 2.Incredibly failed to see or ignored a 4 v 1 overlap which surely would have produced a goal and worse still, kicked the ball way up in the air and wide.

Hugely deflating and disappointing day and a big challenge to pick things up for next week.

One last thing, no effect on result really but the ref today was absolutely horrendous and looked like he had no idea what he was doing. He wasted 5 mins himself wandering aimlessly around during stoppages I reckon. Looked completely clueless. Also stopped the game needlessly on a lot of occasions when Galway were clearly looking to just run down clock (we’d all try the same let’s be honest!) which you don’t do unless there’s a suspected head or serious injury.
Unfortunately there was 1 serious injury to Paul Conroy today and looks like his season is over. Terrible luck as he was going well but Young Cooke gave a good display when he came in. Huge credit to Walsh and his management. Galway will be hard for anyone to beat.

windy shepard henderson

Watched a lot of what kerry have been doing under age in the last 4 years or so . But between yesterday and today it must act as a watershed for a number of players for the future , blame fitzmorris all you like but players attitude needs to be considered


Two years ago if that kildare u20 yesterday team met that kerry minor team of 2016 they would have been hammered , as for today ....bad and all Clare and cork are that was a huge drop off in work rate

dd972

Well, that was good today...

MfMan

wonga77 wrote: »

Huge ask to get a result in Clones next weekend. Too many passengers on this team, JOD living off the hype of a few years ago, offers nothing. Same ole subs as usual far too predictable.
Fair play to Clifford, the only plus from a horrendous display.
I have zero sympathy for Fitzmaurice, he has alienated the players from the club scene and has made this bed for himself. He doesn't seem to have learnt a single thing from the last few years

Fitzmaurice will get it right yet. Leave him for another few years.

Speakerboxx

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Fantastic stuff again tonight , the defensive structure is probably the best in the country at the moment , whether its cork Clare or whomever this Kerry team is miles ahead of most of the country , I highly doubt galway would give ye a game the way ye are shaping up at the moment ,

You certainly do know your stuff in fairness, fair play to you.

windy shepard henderson

Speakerboxx wrote: »

You certainly do know your stuff in fairness, fair play to you.

Am ......that was about 4 weeks ago why wait until now to point out my lack of foresight?

dobman88

Speakerboxx wrote: »

You certainly do know your stuff in fairness, fair play to you.

Ah he's trolling, take no notice, I'd say he's a Clare man. I called him out on it at the time. I believe the term I used was "blow holing". Don't feed it etc etc.

cms88

More of the same questions to be asked once more.

Since lasts years semi final how many games have the likes of Young, Maher and Walsh played? Be it with club or county?

Subs that made no scene and took too long to bring on.

Some very below par displays from the likes of Sean O Shea, Jack Barry amoung others.


Another thing once again no sign of Ronan Shanahan yesterday. EF seems to have a thing against him when it comes to the championship. Something that's also worrying is the amount of players, more so in the last two years, who seem to have gone backwards. The likes of Crowley etc just don't seem to have kicked on from 2014 at all

Also once again no plan when it comes to kick outs. Not sure how many were just kicked 10 yards to a fellas feet.

All and all once of if not the worst display in 20 years.

windy shepard henderson

dobman88 wrote: »

Ah he's trolling, take no notice, I'd say he's a Clare man. I called him out on it at the time. I believe the term I used was "blow holing". Don't feed it etc etc.

Nonsense , I was actually talking up kerrys chances of doing well this year given how good some of the new players are and what they done underage over the last few years


By the way what difference dose it make what county I am from ?

munster87

cms88 wrote: »

More of the same questions to be asked once more.

Since lasts years semi final how many games have the likes of Young, Maher and Walsh played? Be it with club or county?

Subs that made no scene and took too long to bring on.

Some very below par displays from the likes of Sean O Shea, Jack Barry amoung others.


Another thing once again no sign of Ronan Shanahan yesterday. EF seems to have a thing against him when it comes to the championship. Something that's also worrying is the amount of players, more so in the last two years, who seem to have gone backwards. The likes of Crowley etc just don't seem to have kicked on from 2014 at all

Also once again no plan when it comes to kick outs. Not sure how many were just kicked 10 yards to a fellas feet.

All and all once of if not the worst display in 20 years.

Yeah kickouts were especially poor. You could see the runs being made and in fairness to the Galway lads they were hounding the runners, but there seemed to be no plan to them at all, which in today’s football is unacceptable

Radio5

mystic86 wrote: »

Special mention for Clifford, 1-5 today, 1-4 from play - at the end of last year the talk was will Clifford be brought up to Senior for 2018, and if so will he be able to make the step up successfully... we now find ourselves in the position where Clifford is our main man. Startling to think about, serious praise must go his way.

That is worth dwelling on for a moment. On the one hand there is very much deserved praise for Clifford. Right to the end when Galway had the game won, he was looking for the ball, looking to do things right down to the last minute. More experienced players looked like they were already out the gate and on their way home such was their demeanour.

on the other hand what does it say about the other players that a 19 year old is their leader when the chips are down?

keane2097

I think JOD is getting a bit more flack than he's due. His performance obviously suffers by comparison with '14, but taken on it's own I thought he tried hard, got on a lot of ball and tried to do the right things with it. I thought he was having a far greater impact on the game than O'Shea, McCarthy and O'Brien when taken off.

As CT alluded to, P Geaney was incredibly disappointing yesterday. While some guys were guilty of having little impact despite trying hard, he was guilty of having a negative impact while appearing petulant, casual and disinterested. I believe we had more than one turnover - in a tight game on a rotten day - from him not deeming it necessary to bend his back and pick up the ball. He trotted around the middle for large parts showing no real desire to take the game by the scruff of the neck, made some dreadful decisions costing us two gilt edged goal opportunities. When leadership was badly needed you look to one of the best forwards in the game and find him constantly busy engaging in handbags with a corner back who shouldn't be able to lace his boots.

It's hard to see how we will be able to improve enough in a week to go to Clones with any confidence of winning. I hope we at least see more energy and a better attitude.

brocbrocach

keane2097 wrote: »

I think JOD is getting a bit more flack than he's due. His performance obviously suffers by comparison with '14, but taken on it's own I thought he tried hard, got on a lot of ball and tried to do the right things with it. I thought he was having a far greater impact on the game than O'Shea, McCarthy and O'Brien when taken off.

As CT alluded to, P Geaney was incredibly disappointing yesterday. While some guys were guilty of having little impact despite trying hard, he was guilty of having a negative impact while appearing petulant, casual and disinterested. I believe we had more than one turnover - in a tight game on a rotten day - from him not deeming it necessary to bend his back and pick up the ball. He trotted around the middle for large parts showing no real desire to take the game by the scruff of the neck, made some dreadful decisions costing us two gilt edged goal opportunities. When leadership was badly needed you look to one of the best forwards in the game and find him constantly busy engaging in handbags with a corner back who shouldn't be able to lace his boots.

It's hard to see how we will be able to improve enough in a week to go to Clones with any confidence of winning. I hope we at least see more energy and a better attitude.

Made one great turnover tackling back and it was his persistence that created the goal right at the end for Clifford so he wasn't totally casual. On the other hand I saw him a few times winning ball in the half-back line when he had no business on that side of the field at all.

Stoner

What struck me watching the game was how little impact the subs made. They did nothing.

Fr Tod Umptious

Terrace Talk will be fun tonight.

keane2097

Stoner wrote: »

What struck me watching the game was how little impact the subs made. They did nothing.

Burns didn't do much, Maher I thought was poor and Tom O'Sullivan I thought was a fairly sizeable improvement on Begley marking Burke.

The three subs at the end were brought in with five minutes to go in normal time and I would say the ball was in play for about 90 seconds between that and injury time. They had no real opportunity to make an impact. A general feature yesterday was the incredible number of lengthy delays as the ref pootered around doing whatever it is he does. The ball never seemed to be in play. I would be interested in a stop clock of 65 minutes to the final whistle of how long the ball was in play.

It's mind-boggling that things could be going so badly that you decide you need to make three subs at the same time, but somehow it's five minutes to go when this becomes apparent to you.

Angrydwarf

This Kerry team haven't got the bottle to win Sam.

Bass Reeves

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

Watched a lot of what kerry have been doing under age in the last 4 years or so . But between yesterday and today it must act as a watershed for a number of players for the future , blame fitzmorris all you like but players attitude needs to be considered


Two years ago if that kildare u20 yesterday team met that kerry minor team of 2016 they would have been hammered , as for today ....bad and all Clare and cork are that was a huge drop off in work rate

It is Fitzmaurice he reverts to type every time. This bull of blaming young players all the time is 5hite. I like to know why Morley was dropped. I think he was dropped rather than injured. I think it effected the team. I think Fitz wanted young in the team and taught we beat Galways and matchtime would bring on Young. Not a fan of Mike Geany but imagine Donnacha replacing him on the bench pissed off Paul. Sean O' Se and Stephen O Brien are virtual clubmates of Morley. I think Fitz pissed off a section of the players. This will happen if players see selections not on merit. Jack Barry was disinterested yesterday as well.

cms88 wrote: »

More of the same questions to be asked once more.

Since lasts years semi final how many games have the likes of Young, Maher and Walsh played? Be it with club or county?

Subs that made no scene and took too long to bring on.

Some very below par displays from the likes of Sean O Shea, Jack Barry amoung others.


Another thing once again no sign of Ronan Shanahan yesterday. EF seems to have a thing against him when it comes to the championship. Something that's also worrying is the amount of players, more so in the last two years, who seem to have gone backwards. The likes of Crowley etc just don't seem to have kicked on from 2014 at all

Also once again no plan when it comes to kick outs. Not sure how many were just kicked 10 yards to a fellas feet.

All and all once of if not the worst display in 20 years.

When you look at the bench what Kerry player was quaking in his boots all year about losing his place, When Fitz made the triple substitution what was the tactic. There was no ball carrier in the 3 subs. Griffin and Donocha both looked over weight, It is not just Shanahan, Gavin Crowley is in a similar situation but I think he is carrying a knock at present

munster87 wrote: »

Yeah kickouts were especially poor. You could see the runs being made and in fairness to the Galway lads they were hounding the runners, but there seemed to be no plan to them at all, which in today’s football is unacceptable

At the start of this year I questioned the decision about the young lad from Rathmore that was not considered because he refused to play in goals for his club. Sean O'Se may have gotten a knock in the collesion with the Galway midfielder that broke his leg as he took none of the long frees in the second half.

keane2097 wrote: »

Burns didn't do much, Maher I thought was poor and Tom O'Sullivan I thought was a fairly sizeable improvement on Begley marking Burke.

The three subs at the end were brought in with five minutes to go in normal time and I would say the ball was in play for about 90 seconds between that and injury time. They had no real opportunity to make an impact. A general feature yesterday was the incredible number of lengthy delays as the ref pootered around doing whatever it is he does. The ball never seemed to be in play. I would be interested in a stop clock of 65 minutes to the final whistle of how long the ball was in play.

It's mind-boggling that things could be going so badly that you decide you need to make three subs at the same time, but somehow it's five minutes to go when this becomes apparent to you.

To say Maher was poor was an understatement first four plays he was involved in he nearly gave away a goal, failed to catch a ball, sucide handpass and kickpass. The problem is that even if we mange to scrape out of this group we have not got player on the bench to beat a top four team. The reason for the triple substitution was that he had not made substitutions earlier to solve issues as his bench is all old men. Out of the 11 subs on offer there was a goalie and six players that are at or near retirement. He used one KY to replace Morley. That left him with Shanahan, Tom o'Sullivan and Burns. One forward and two backs. You reap what you sow.

The managment of the young players must be a disgrace. They have lost interest IMO as there is no natural progression on to the squad. We have players on the bench who were not good enough two years ago not to mind now. Next week Shane Enright will make an appearence on the panel I imagine and I hear Marc O'Se and Bryan Sheahan are polishing there boots awaiting the call back.

DDC1990

Bass Reeves wrote:

It is Fitzmaurice he reverts to type every time. This bull of blaming young players all the time is 5hite. I like to know why Morley was dropped. I think he was dropped rather than injured. I think it effected the team. I think Fitz wanted young in the team and taught we beat Galways and matchtime would bring on Young. Not a fan of Mike Geany but imagine Donnacha replacing him on the bench pissed off Paul. Sean O' Se and Stephen O Brien are virtual clubmates of Morley. I think Fitz pissed off a section of the players. This will happen if players see selections not on merit. Jack Barry was disinterested yesterday as well.

You 'think he was dropped and not injured'?

Morley taking no part in the warm up was a ploy so?

I suppose Morley pretended to be injured so Fitzmaurice could play his buddy.

Sean O'Shea and Stephen O'Brien played **** in solidarity with Morley?

8 championship debutants this year but Fitzmaurice is not giving any chance to young lads.

Mikey ****ing Geaney!

It's bad enough losing yesterday and the u20's without having to read utter bollox the day after as well.

Bass Reeves

DDC1990 wrote: »

You 'think he was dropped and not injured'?

Morley taking no part in the warm up was a ploy so?

I suppose Morley pretended to be injured so Fitzmaurice could play his buddy.

Sean O'Shea and Stephen O'Brien played **** in solidarity with Morley?

8 championship debutants this year but Fitzmaurice is not giving any chance to young lads.

Mikey ****ing Geaney!

It's bad enough losing yesterday and the u20's without having to read utter bollox the day after as well.

The issue is not this year it is the last five years. Fitz always reverts to older players. Do you really think there is not a player in the county that can contribute more than 3-4 of the players that are on the bench . Maher was f@@king brutal yesterday when he came on. I think Mike Geany would have been better than Doonacha or Darren and like I said I have not got great time for him. Killian Young was not CB in his hey day not to mine at f@@king 31.

There is a load of sh!te going on about young players not being good enough but they are used for the league and then the bench warmers come in to sit on the stool. Why not Crowley at CB and Shannahan in and Foley at FB. There is something very wrong with our ability as a county to get players from minor to playing at senior level. I see it at club level( I am living outside kerry) where when young lads do not get a chance they exit the game. Lads will not f@@king improve on the sideline especially if not allowed to play for there club either. But if we think we can win an All Ireland with 7 retired players on the bench we are deluded and going nowhere next year either.

Sean O Se not playing club or U 21 last year was a huge mistake. It stopped the momentum from minor to U21 and seems to have moved on from that to thsi years U20's.

Thsi f@@king idea that jsut because he bought in 5-6 thsi years that Fitz has change his spots is bull. DOS played nearly a half a game against Cork and could not go past a man. Maher was poor that day as well. Tpoo many OAP's on the bench.

DDC1990

Paul Murphy's "dive" in the first half, which the referee flapped his hands at him and told him to get up.

I'd be very interested to see the free count.

Stoner

keane2097 wrote:

It's mind-boggling that things could be going so badly that you decide you need to make three subs at the same time, but somehow it's five minutes to go when this becomes apparent to you.

You'd say now though that a sub at 65 minutes has about 10 to 14 minutes on the field. 65 is cutting it close alright, but not as much much now as in the past.

I don't think Maher is an impact sub at all. You'd bring him in much earlier if you use him at all. IMO he's a fix an issue in midfield player and should be on at the latest at half time, or if there's a sending off.

The_Honeybadger

DDC1990 wrote: »

Paul Murphy's "dive" in the first half, which the referee flapped his hands at him and told him to get up.

I'd be very interested to see the free count.

Ref was an absolute shambles, not even close to intercounty standard but he was bad for both teams equally. He clearly shouldn’t be reffing at this level

Prop Joe

Killian Young last played for Kerry 11 months ago,How did management think it would be possible to waltz in and play in a game without playing a game of football in that period?

Tom O Sullivan first sub on yesterday - he made his debut v Mayo in championship last year and how much football has he played since? One half v Monaghan in the league - One half v Galway in the Lge and the dead rubber in Omagh - No sign of him on any championship panel until Sunday ?

wonga77

Maher has played little if any club football for a good while now. Same with Killian. Its a real bugbear of mine. Apparently the extended panel as in the lads who make up the numbers at training were stopped from playing with their clubs on saturday. That is madness.
Obviously im sure the county training games are competitive enough but im sure marking the same faces every night at training must become a bit of a chore. Players need to be back with their clubs a bit more, facing different teams, players and scenarios.
Lose the next day and Fitzmaurice is surely gone? Im surprised Donaghy didnt get 10 minutes, we were crying out for something different...

Prop Joe

wonga77 wrote: »

Maher has played little if any club football for a good while now. Same with Killian. Its a real bugbear of mine. Apparently the extended panel as in the lads who make up the numbers at training were stopped from playing with their clubs on saturday. That is madness.
Obviously im sure the county training games are competitive enough but im sure marking the same faces every night at training must become a bit of a chore. Players need to be back with their clubs a bit more, facing different teams, players and scenarios.
Lose the next day and Fitzmaurice is surely gone? Im surprised Donaghy didnt get 10 minutes, we were crying out for something different...

When Sean O Shea was barred from playing a county final and the Rathmore management were told who to pick in the East Kerry championship the horse bolted