Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

spurshero

mickeyk wrote: »

Ref was an absolute shambles, not even close to intercounty standard but he was bad for both teams equally. He clearly shouldn’t be reffing at this level

I’m a Galway man we won and I thought the ref was terrible . People always say it’s sour grapes but to me he was poor

jimmytwotimes 2013

spurshero wrote: »

I’m a Galway man we won and I thought the ref was terrible . People always say it’s sour grapes but to me he was poor

The one thing i couldn't figure out was how he gave so many frees against Kerry in midfield. There were a pile of bodies in there and he kept blowing frees to Galway. Have to watch recording back to see what was going on cos it wasnt clear at all from where we were sitting.

The_Honeybadger

Monaghan next week will set up very like Galway. I’ll be interested to see what changes Eamon makes and how he approaches the game. If we lose it’s surely the end of him?

Morley and O’Shea must be doubtful and Killian will be suspended so there will probably be several changes. O'Beaglaoich could be under pressure for his place too.

munster87

Where is Gavin Crowley these days? I know he was injured earlier in the year

DDC1990

People were saying Sean O'Shea didn't take the frees because he got a knock, but Murphy took all the 45's in the warmup. Don't remember O'Shea taking any.

Perhaps it was decided that the free taking adds more pressure on his shoulders. Or he may have been carrying a knock into the game.

Who knows.

conor05

Prop Joe wrote: »

When Sean O Shea was barred from playing a county final and the Rathmore management were told who to pick in the East Kerry championship the horse bolted

I think the majority of the county have had their fill of Eamon Fitz at this stage. He seems a decent man but bar the All Ireland in 2014 he is on a huge downward spiral. That was 4 years ago now.

If we get knocked out next week, Thank him for his tenure and start looking for a whole new mananement team in 2019.

Liam Hassett is a complete waste of time!

conor05

Angrydwarf wrote: »

This Kerry team haven't got the bottle to win Sam.

Except for David Clifford.

That man has a set of balls on him any bull would be proud of. Doesn’t hide like other more senior players , shows constantly for the ball and scores at ease.

If every member of the panel had David’s Clifford’s attitude we would be guaranteed a few Sams.

And attitude is the key word. Certain players walking around Croke Park yesterday as if they owned the Kerry jersey on their back.

acequion

conor05 wrote: »

Except for David Clifford.

That man has a set of balls on him any bull would be proud of. Doesn’t hide like other more senior players , shows constantly for the ball and scores at ease.

If every member of the panel had David’s Clifford’s attitude we would be guaranteed a few Sams.

And attitude is the key word. Certain players walking around Croke Park yesterday as if they owned the Kerry jersey on their back.

What would worry me is keeping him motivated. With the current set up and the current management we're light years away from winning Sam.Who wouldn't be totally frustrated?? Especially a super talented ballsy player like young Clifford!

Kingdom

Very little positivity for Jason Foley yesterday surprises me. I thought he gave. Comer.a.fierce time of it and came out of the battle well.

Fr Tod Umptious

mickeyk wrote: »

Monaghan next week will set up very like Galway. I’ll be interested to see what changes Eamon makes and how he approaches the game. If we lose it’s surely the end of him?

Morley and O’Shea must be doubtful and Killian will be suspended so there will probably be several changes. O'Beaglaoich could be under pressure for his place too.

I only caught the end of Terrece Talk but the consensus seemed to be start Donaghey and lump high ball into him.

A texter also suggested that Maher had to start and the panel seemed to agree.

Bass Reeves

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I only caught the end of Terrece Talk but the consensus seemed to be start Donaghey and lump high ball into him.

A texter also suggested that Maher had to start and the panel seemed to agree.

They will both get eaten up and spat out by the Monoghan players. Neither are mobile enough for the game at present. This tactic might get us to the 40 minute mark, waht then we have no ball carriers. Thomas O Se was suggesting the same thing today in the indo and starting Darren and Donoghey. He even suggested Donoghy at midfield.

I am not sure what planet these lads are living on. Even if we survive Monoghan with such a tactic and got out of the group Donegal, Dublin or Tyrone would chew us up. All are well capable of handling high ball into a static full forward. We saw what happened last year with Donoghy on the second day against Mayo

Crowley CB bring in Shannahan get rid of the sweeper, press up on the Monoghan kickout and hope for the best. The problem will be with 20 minutes to go we have no one to bring on to carry the ball or to change the game. We have to have the game won with 20 minutes to go.

That is going to be out issue after getting out of the group. Thinking that the answer is in yesterday's men is dellusional

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I only caught the end of Terrece Talk but the consensus seemed to be start Donaghey and lump high ball into him.

A texter also suggested that Maher had to start and the panel seemed to agree.

I stopped listening to TT a while back. That’s a possibility but I think Monaghan would be well able for Donaghy, this isn’t 2006. I still can’t understand why he wasn’t at least tried for the final 15 minutes the last day though and try a few diagonal balls in.

I don’t know about maher starting either. He was miles off the pace when he came in off the bench. Our tactics really handed Galway the initiative around the middle, David and Jack were completely outnumbered most of the time and they were also being held and dragged all over the place on the kickouts with no help from the ref. What I’m getting at is that perhaps it’s not wholly a personnel issue in the middle, I can’t see what maher will solve if we go out and play like that again.

I think we missed Morley badly as Killian was struggling and he also let his team down with a foolish red card at a crucial stage when we were still in it. There will be a couple of changes at the back I’d imagine, but I have given up trying to predict what Eamon might do at this stage.

shockframe

conor05 wrote: »

I think the majority of the county have had their fill of Eamon Fitz at this stage. He seems a decent man but bar the All Ireland in 2014 he is on a huge downward spiral. That was 4 years ago now.

If we get knocked out next week, Thank him for his tenure and start looking for a whole new mananement team in 2019.

Liam Hassett is a complete waste of time!

Fitzmaurice has stayed on way too long as manager. If he had stepped aside in 2016 he would have left with a stronger reputation.


Given the strength of the underage scene in Kerry he would have been a good shout to return as manager down the road. That could be unlikely now.

Angrydwarf

Have Kerry shown any mental resolve this year yet? A team of young inexperienced players usually don't have the mental character

munster87

Angrydwarf wrote: »

Have Kerry shown any mental resolve this year yet? A team of young inexperienced players usually don't have the mental character

You can’t win anything with kids as they say

Bass Reeves

munster87 wrote: »

You can’t win anything with kids as they say

Old legs win nothing either as the last three years have proven. We were lucky in one way in 2014 that Donegal beat Dublin and were raging favourites to win final.

SexBobomb

I always thought the reason for having Donaghy in the panel is that he's such a different type of player than the front 3 we have playing. Imagine being a manager setting up his team to try and deal with the speed and mobility Geaney, Donoghue and Clifford usually bring as well as half forwards and attacking wing backs. Then on comes Donaghy and stands at the edge of the square with high balls coming in and him either fielding and laying them off or breaking them down to the likes of Clifford.
He's still a threat in the air and a serious handful for backs who usually end up double marking him freeing up another Kerry player. Very hard to deal with a forward line that can switch it up like that in my opinion.

Kingdom

From the moment I sat down during the pre-parade warm up, I was concerned. Drills were lax, shots were lax, passes were lax. I always watch the warm-up in all the sports I attend, I've found you can get little glimpses of a mindset. Kerry's was not good.

I tend not to post here often, certainly not on GAA, but I can't help myself this time. There were so many negatives.

It was such a clusterfuxk of epic proportions, with very little going right. Shane Murphy's kick-outs were lazy, almost arrogant. It happened early, and it happened often. If he wasn't such a capable kicker it wouldn't be half as annoying, but he is! He'll need to sort that out immediately. It got so bad that the outfield players stopped making runs. To be fair to him, and to the Kerry middle 8, I thought the referee was unbelievably harsh both on Murphy when going to kick the ball, and then on the jumpers as he was constantly penalising Kerry (for not a lot from what I could see from my admittedly bad vantage point). He was particularly harsh on Murphy's kicks in the first half. At least 5 times he prevented him from kicking first time.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that conditions would have been poxy. A rock-hard pitch (even allowing for the Croker staff that tend to it) with a greasy top is a horror show to play on, but it still doesn't excuse the poorness of our control. Hand-pass, foot-pass, solo, bounce; everything was affected.

I think it's time to discuss David Moran. I feel he flatters to deceive too often, and isn't the commander that you need in midfield. I mean Peter Cooke bloody well bullied him from the minute he came on the field. Doing the "Darragh" catch was pointless. he didn't need to be there in the first place, Shane Murphy should have been taking that ball. I didn't think Jack Barry had a good game by any stretch, but David needs a wake-up call.

There were too many passengers across the pitch all game long. The half-forward line were poor, albeit at least Stephen O'Brien was trying. As much of a contradiction as this sounds, the effort he put in trying to atone for his mistake that lead to the Galway goal was seriously impressive. After slipping the ball poorly, he ran full tilt for about 100yds to try and track back. It showed great effort, albeit fruitless effort.

The game was lost by the middle 8.

What were the positives? Well for one, I thought the sweeper worked well. It was very obvious they were shoring up the gaping hole through the 45 to the D, and it worked. The problem was that we ceded possession to Galway up the field as they had an extra man. It's even more annoying because the corollary was that we had the extra man in our defence yet, we couldn't translate that into prolonged possession from our own kick-outs. That's a sin.

I thought Jason Foley was superb. Comer, who I don't think is "all that" came into the game with a huge reputation, and I just assumed that Crowley would take him. For a young lad with little experience of the big pitch, I know the Galway folk behind me thought Comer was going to run amok, but he didn't. Foley made some super blocks, tracked him really well and looked well up for it. He broke two great balls off Comer, and unfortunately for him both breaks were won by a Galway man and lead to a score. But I think he should take great heart from his performance.

Clifford doesn't need any spoke from me. wasn't the perfect performance by any stretch, but again for a kid, he showed up well.

This will sound daft, but despite playing horror show football with horror show tactics, the game was still there to be won when Killian was sent off. I'm not going to castigate the guy, because I think he carried ball well in the first half, and we all know he ain't a centre back, but there was serious goading going on by Galway across the field throughout the game that just wasn't picked up. About 5 mins after Killian got red, the Galway player (22?) who ultimately was sent off, kicked out at Paul Murphy - I think - in the middle of the pitch for no reason. There was only three points in it at that stage, and he was already on a yellow, and he should have seen the line. There would have been enough time to come back with even numbers at that stage. And that crap annoys me. If you're going to pull off-the-ball stuff you've got to be consistent. Cassidy had a stinker of a game throughout, and when you've someone decent like Coldrick on the line, it makes it even more annoying when a pleb like Cassidy runs the game as poorly as he did.

The final positive for me is that it quite simply can't get any worse than that.

I would hope that of the 15 who started, that the majority will feel their place is under threat.

Kingdom

SexBobomb wrote: »

I always thought the reason for having Donaghy in the panel is that he's such a different type of player than the front 3 we have playing. Imagine being a manager setting up his team to try and deal with the speed and mobility Geaney, Donoghue and Clifford usually bring as well as half forwards and attacking wing backs. Then on comes Donaghy and stands at the edge of the square with high balls coming in and him either fielding and laying them off or breaking them down to the likes of Clifford.
He's still a threat in the air and a serious handful for backs who usually end up double marking him freeing up another Kerry player. Very hard to deal with a forward line that can switch it up like that in my opinion.

Three times in the 1st half there were spells of 30 seconds where there was no Kerry player in the Galway half. That's madness. I understand the numerical advantage and danger of letting your man go through the pitch unmarked, but with the correct press (and the shield of Peter Crowley that we had for 25 mins or so) then the worst that letting the man go will result in is a point. But the flip-side is that you have the outlet at least in the Galway half to make the defender think hard about gallivanting up the field, particularly when you've someone like Shane Murphy who can in theory ping a ball onto a 6pence 60 yds away.

Bass Reeves

SexBobomb wrote: »

I always thought the reason for having Donaghy in the panel is that he's such a different type of player than the front 3 we have playing. Imagine being a manager setting up his team to try and deal with the speed and mobility Geaney, Donoghue and Clifford usually bring as well as half forwards and attacking wing backs. Then on comes Donaghy and stands at the edge of the square with high balls coming in and him either fielding and laying them off or breaking them down to the likes of Clifford.
He's still a threat in the air and a serious handful for backs who usually end up double marking him freeing up another Kerry player. Very hard to deal with a forward line that can switch it up like that in my opinion.

Donaghy is not the force he was 4 years ago not to mind 10 years ago. He is 35 years old which is ancient in Gaelic football terms. Last year in the replay against Mayo Aidan O Se out fought him easy. I was really surprised today when Thomas O Se suggested that he should start along with Darren O Sullivan. Neither are the athlete's they were 4-10 years ago. Donaghy can no longer make the runs to receive a ball that he could do and neither has he the jumping capability. I think he no longer would need to be double tagged but more importantly when his man was in possession someone else would have to chase him up the field.

The issue with this you would have Geaney and Clifford pulled away from where they are most dangerous. As well I imagine it would be Donoghue that would lose out. I was surprised that he was not deployed last Sunday before Killian got the red. After he was send off sending on Donaghy in was not an option as it would have been a 13 V 15 game. When he came on in the Cork match I did not think he looked fit. The problem I see with the present bench is after you send on the 2-3 young players you are seriously limited as to how many of the rest you can send on. In essence they have all lost that yard of pace that allows them to be game changers.

Mr. Incognito

Good article from Darragh today

Darragh Ó Sé: Kerry hurting because they lack the men to lead them (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-kerry-hurting-because-they-lack-the-men-to-lead-them-1.3568403

MfMan

Kingdom wrote: »

This will sound daft, but despite playing horror show football with horror show tactics, the game was still there to be won when Killian was sent off. I'm not going to castigate the guy, because I think he carried ball well in the first half, and we all know he ain't a centre back, but there was serious goading going on by Galway across the field throughout the game that just wasn't picked up. About 5 mins after Killian got red, the Galway player (22?) who ultimately was sent off, kicked out at Paul Murphy - I think - in the middle of the pitch for no reason. There was only three points in it at that stage, and he was already on a yellow, and he should have seen the line. There would have been enough time to come back with even numbers at that stage. And that crap annoys me. If you're going to pull off-the-ball stuff you've got to be consistent. Cassidy had a stinker of a game throughout, and when you've someone decent like Coldrick on the line, it makes it even more annoying when a pleb like Cassidy runs the game as poorly as he did.

Not condoning this, but FFS, Kerry (and Kerry teams) are the most cynical team going and long have been. Constantly pulling and tugging back off the ball. No sympathy for youse.

The_Honeybadger

MfMan wrote: »

Not condoning this, but FFS, Kerry (and Kerry teams) are the most cynical team going and long have been. Constantly pulling and tugging back off the ball. No sympathy for youse.

I would agree to a point although all teams are cynical, having been at the game the ref the last day was an absolute shambles though, probably the most incompetent I have ever seen. Galway got away with murder off the ball and he only seemed interested in reffing one team. Not that it would have made any difference to Kerry the way we were playing.

Fr Tod Umptious

mickeyk wrote: »

I would agree to a point although all teams are cynical, having been at the game the ref the last day was an absolute shambles though, probably the most incompetent I have ever seen. Galway got away with murder off the ball and he only seemed interested in reffing one team. Not that it would have made any difference to Kerry the way we were playing.

That only happens when your own team loses.

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That only happens when your own team loses.

Not complaining at all, and I’m not trying to say it impacted the result. Galway fans at the game with any clue will tell u the same he was laughably bad at times. The amount of stoppages while he was wandering around the pitch was absolutely crazy. Killians red was fully deserved but he missed / ignored at least a half dozen equally serious incidents on both sides. He gave kerry absolutely everything then after Killian went off. Kerry goal shouldn’t have stood for example.

Edgware

mickeyk wrote: »

Not complaining at all, and I’m not trying to say it impacted the result. Galway fans at the game with any clue will tell u the same he was laughably bad at times. The amount of stoppages while he was wandering around the pitch was absolutely crazy. Killians red was fully deserved but he missed / ignored at least a half dozen equally serious incidents on both sides. He gave kerry absolutely everything then after Killian went off. Kerry goal shouldn’t have stood for example.

Kerry cant complain about the ref as they have got a lot of 50 50 decisions over the years.
Darragh O Se highlighted the lack of leadership on the pitch which is a fair point.
They have a panel of classy players but you need more than that to win the tough close games. They're young and no need to panic yet. However if the Dubs win out this year they will go all out for five in a row and no Kerry team can allow that

SexBobomb

I disagree that Donaghy isn't up to it anymore, he's still got something to offer the game imo. He was never a man to chase down players, he was never known as a hard tackler or the engine of any team, he has always been the big man to target in the square. I don't think weve seen him get a run out really yet, I wouldn't put much stock in the Munster Final minutes he got.
Now, different story if we were talking about Sullivan, who amazing player he is, has undoubtedly lost some of the pace that was the cornerstone of his game, a strong fast runner hard to tackle without fouling. In response to he wouldn't be able follow his man back the pitch I would never expect a full forward to do so.

I don't believe Donaghy is the making or breaking of this team by the way, just an interesting discussion.

conor05

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Good article from Darragh today

Darragh Ó Sé: Kerry hurting because they lack the men to lead them (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-kerry-hurting-because-they-lack-the-men-to-lead-them-1.3568403

That whole article stinks of deflecting the blame away from his friend and old teammate Eamonn Fitz.
Sorry but I am struggling with Tomas, Darragh and Gooch lately as they don’t put any blame onto management and everything is back on the players.

You can see Brian Cody’s fight, spirit and attitude all over every team that plays for him. Your team is a reflection of you as a manager.

EF doesn’t seem to ignite any passion in his players or absolute will to win.
He stands with his hands in his pockets for the whole game and that’s a fair reflection of his team too.

threeball

conor05 wrote: »

That whole article stinks of deflecting the blame away from his friend and old teammate Eamonn Fitz.
Sorry but I am struggling with Tomas, Darragh and Gooch lately as they don’t put any blame onto management and everything is back on the players.

You can see Brian Cody’s fight, spirit and attitude all over every team that plays for him. Your team is a reflection of you as a manager.

EF doesn’t seem to ignite any passion in his players or absolute will to win.
He stands with his hands in his pockets for the whole game and that’s a fair reflection of his team too.

Its a bit of a cover up but the team are at least 50% to blame. They played Clare and Cork who offered very little going forward so kerry pushed up bigtime and choked them at source. Fitzmaurice knew that he couldn't do that against Galway. Kerry defence coughed up two goals against a toothless cork and Galway can absorb punishment and counter attack at pace.
If that was allowed happen Kerry could have been bet out the gate. The other side to that was they tried to sit back and mirror Galway and they had no experience in doing so and were beaten.

Reality on the day was that both teams were at about 40% and at this moment in time Galways 40% is better than Kerrys 40%. We were in the same position as ye 2-3yrs ago, good forwards, no defence. Whether Fitzmaurice stays or goes, the manager next year needs to work on that as ye don't have the footballers at the back to do it all themselves.

Powerhouse

conor05 wrote: »

You can see Brian Cody’s fight, spirit and attitude all over every team that plays for him. Your team is a reflection of you as a manager

Kilkenny have won just four of their last eleven championship games so if this is the staggeringly high standard Fitzmaurice has to get up to I think he’ll be okay.