Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

The White Feather

Eamonn Fitzmaurice has stepped down as Kerry manager



https://twitter.com/tonyleen/status/1025826731377217536

Fr Tod Umptious

And the real question to be asked is why was he even given a 3 year extension last year.

wonga77

Sure what do I know!

keane2097

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And the real question to be asked is why was he even given a 3 year extension last year.

To try and let him maintain authority for this year I suppose. It's only notional anyway, nobody is signing iron clad contracts.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

And the real question to be asked is why was he even given a 3 year extension last year.

Won an All-ireland with an average enuf squad. Players starting to come thro successful underage teams and people felt he deserved a chance to bring those thro.

Obvious this year that it wasnt the correct decision but easy to be wise after the event.

The_Honeybadger

Hope that is true and fair play to him for not dragging it out.

Best of luck to him and thanks for everything, especially 2014, one of the happiest days I have had following Kerry.

kerry cow

The White Feather wrote:

Eamonn Fitzmaurice has stepped down as Kerry manager

A year too late

jimmytwotimes 2013

Thanks to Fitzmaurice for all the work he has done for the county as player and coach. The time had come to move on.

The White Feather

Same reporter about Fitzmaurice. Awful to hear anyone getting hate mail. No call for that no matter what happens


https://twitter.com/tonyleen/status/1025834828158119936

The_Honeybadger

The White Feather wrote: »

Same reporter about Fitzmaurice. Awful to hear anyone getting hate mail. No call for that no matter what happens


https://twitter.com/tonyleen/status/1025834828158119936

Ridiculous carry on. No true supporter would do such a thing.

An Ciarraioch

Similarly, any criticism being thrown out has generally been aimed at the older players - plenty of patience and praise for the young lads this year.

Amprodude

just as well Kerry are out of championship. They are just flukey get flukey decisions and poxy goals out of nothing especially when they are losing well. Beaten well by Galway, Beaten well by Monaghan and Beaten well in the first half by Kildare. It would be an injustice if Kerry got through to semi final. Best of luck to Fitzmaurice he was a real gent and nice guy and did his best to coach a pretty average Kerry panel. Best of luck to him in his future roles.

Amprodude

Amprodude wrote: »

just as well Kerry are out of championship. They are just flukey get flukey decisions and poxy goals out of nothing especially when they are losing well. Beaten well by Galway, Beaten well by Monaghan and Beaten well in the first half by Kildare. It would be an injustice if Kerry got through to semi final. Best of luck to Fitzmaurice he was a real gent and nice guy and did his best to coach a pretty average Kerry panel. Best of luck to him in his future roles.

Here is your assessment in June...

Amprodude wrote: »

Surely after today Kerry will take some stopping in winning Sam.

The_Honeybadger

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Here is your assessment in June...

A pure sage is Amprodude

doc_17

Good move for Kerry. Lucky win in 2014. Everything went for them.

An Ciarraioch

Peter Keane the likely favourite for the job? Heard Pat O'Shea tipped a few times as well for a return while on the train back.

acequion

Am very far away on the other side of the world but was tuned in today.:(
However I'm delighted to hear that Fitzmaurice has stepped down. Like many, I've wanted this for some time. Yes he's a gent and blah, blah,blah, but we want someone who will lead Kerry back to the top. And he was never again going to do that, though yes, he did it in 2014. The hate mail stuff is just awful but doesn't surprise me. We're "animals" in Kerry and some are real animals who take Kerry football VERY seriously. You get them in Dublin too,you get them everywhere. So the man did the right thing at last. 
As for Amprodude's remark about an "average group of players," time will tell now. I reckon they could be an exceptional group, an Ireland winning group, if properly managed.
Onwards and upwards guys!

Mr. Incognito

I was at the Galway, Monaghan and Kildare game.

Gutted Fitzmaurice has stopped down. Too many fair weather fans calling for his head.

Will post something more worthy when im sober.

mystic86

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I was at the Galway, Monaghan and Kildare game.

Gutted Fitzmaurice has stopped down. Too many fair weather fans calling for his head.

Will post something more worthy when im sober.

Would love to know what your definition of a fair weather fan is...?

mystic86

Amprodude wrote: »

Beaten well by... and Beaten well in...

Those who live in glass houses etc.

acequion

mystic86 wrote: »

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I was at the Galway,  Monaghan and Kildare game.

Gutted Fitzmaurice has stopped down. Too many fair weather fans calling for his head.

Will post something more worthy when im sober.

Would love to know what your definition of a fair weather fan is...?

And so would I??

Edgware

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Thanks to Fitzmaurice for all the work he has done for the county as player and coach. The time had come to move on.

Fitzmaurice was a good servant to Finuge and Kerry. Its easy to attack him now but there wasnt a queue waiting to take the Kerry job. While a share of the former Kerry lads like Mike Sheehy etc gave their services there are others who were quick to forget where they made their name and instead joined the mongrels in the media. That doesnt apply only to Kerry. Kilkenny Cork Tipp and Tyrone have a few as well

TomEire

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I was at the Galway, Monaghan and Kildare game.

Gutted Fitzmaurice has stopped down. Too many fair weather fans calling for his head.

Will post something more worthy when im sober.

Fitzmaurice wasnt a bad manager but too many mistakes were made, team selection ,tactics and failing to teaching one player how to play a sweeper role.

mystic86

4-14 for Clifford in the three Super 8 games, 3-12 from play.

Surely an all star in his debut season. What a man. At times in that game after he scored he was jumping and shouting and showing some emotion, something which was very often missing from our players under the Fitsmaurice reign. Delighted to see it.

Mr. Incognito

This

mystic86 wrote: »

Would love to know what your definition of a fair weather fan is...?

jimmytwotimes 2013

mystic86 wrote: »

4-14 for Clifford in the three Super 8 games, 3-12 from play.

Surely an all star in his debut season. What a man. At times in that game after he scored he was jumping and shouting and showing some emotion, something which was very often missing from our players under the Fitsmaurice reign. Delighted to see it.

Will be a top talent for many years to come. Can see his desire to win is as strong as his skillset. Will be a pleasure to follow his career.

kerry cow

Fitz's race was ran long before yesterday .
He played galvin in the past when galvin was spent , he played young when young should be gone .
He is too close to both by family connections , its just one example of a long list of bad decisions .
We should have had at least 2 more all ireland in the bag but for bad management .

Mr. Incognito

kerry cow wrote: »

Fitz's race was ran long before yesterday .
He played galvin in the past when galvin was spent , he played young when young should be gone .
He is too close to both by family connections , its just one example of a long list of bad decisions .
We should have had at least 2 more all ireland in the bag but for bad management .

This is delusional. Which All Ireland. What decisions were wrong precisely. What matches.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

This is delusional. Which All Ireland. What decisions were wrong precisely. What matches.

Withdrawing Geaney for Marc O'Se at a crutial time v Dublin in a SF.
Might have won he game and played Mayo in the final, and sure they would win that.

The other was the introduction of Galvin who was back from retirement and had played feck all football in the 2015 final.

Was there no one else to being on.

They are two decision that are just bizzare.

ciarriaithuaidh

So the Fitzmaurice era is over. And to be fair, give the man credit, he went quickly and didn't wait for the board to do the necessary. I'd question how much truth there is in the "bag of anonymous hate mail" stuff and I also thought his line about "taking pressure off the younger players" was fairly disingenuous. Performances and results are the reason he came under pressure and is gone, that's all.

On the game yesterday - Kildare were playing really good stuff and allowed to play good stuff in the first half, by a Kerry team that looked like it had nothing to play for. Right from the warm-up (more on that later) there was a sense of lethargy from too many players. The ridiculous re-selection of Killian Young at 6 was shown up for what it was with Paul Cribbin scoring 5 from play in the first half. 4 of those under zero pressure 40m or less from goal.
David Clifford was slow to get into the game and had a few panicky sort of shots early on, but once he got going he showed his class. The Kerry tactics early on were a bad version of 2006 tactics - lump the ball into Donaghy basically. It didn't work, as a lot of the ball was poor, Donaghy is no longer as sharp as he was and also, there was no Kerry player to pick up breaks off this ball. As if they weren't fully briefed or aware of what the tactics were.
Kildare were running the ball with great purpose and Kevin Feely was the dominant figure on kickouts also ensuring they had plenty possession.
The penalty by Clifford brought Kerry into the game but then the sending off got Kerry off the hook really. I've been told by quite a few Kerry people who were in the stand close to it that it was soft enough, BUT stupid by Kelly hitting someone in the face regardless. No need when 5 pts up and dominating. He was just after sticking a great goal aswell. Maybe he was too pumped up.

The second half then was made easier for Kerry and once we got a few points ahead Kildare didn't kill themselves. BUT, we did play some good stuff and reallly went for it. Players were more urgent, moving with more zip etc. James O'Donoghue came in and showed flashes of his best, Geaney showed flashes of his true self finally, Jack Barry did well on front foot. Clifford was majestic though and is such an exciting prospect. Mad to think he's only 19.
Also though, Peter Crowley was left 1 v 1 at fullback several times in the 2nd half, which in any sort of real game would be suicidal policy. Kerry didn't really have or need a centre back in the 2nd half so it was a bit unrealistic to look at 2nd half as being any huge positive.

Anyway, on Ftzmaurice era. Firstly, it has to be said Fitz took the job in 2012 when only 36 and he didn't really want it. He wanted to stick with the u21s. However there was no other real condidate, so he took it. Credit due for that.
And in 2013 we got the max out of the team I would say. Nobody expected much, but we played good football in the semi final and were level with Dublin in the last minute.
There were signs in that game though of some of the poor judgement, that to me would be sadly one of the hallmarks of this era. Jack Sherwood - a player who had been a middling u21 in 2012 AND who had never played a championship game at senior level, had played a sum total of 17 mins in a league game - was brought off the bench to mark Kevin McMenamon when the game was in the melting pot. A bizarre and unjustifiable decision, which of course backfired.
2014 - got out of jail a bit in drawn semi final. Mayo were totally dominant in the 2nd half that day, but Donaghy was thrown on in desperation and setup the goal for JOD which was crucial. A big weakness of Fitzmaurice was exposed in between the drawn game and replay I felt and it went a bit unnoticed. Mayo had basically not bothered marking Mikey Geaney in the drawn game and as a result, even when they went down to 14 it was no advantage to Kerry. He was taken off after around 45 mins in the drawn game, but still started the replay. Everyone praised the ruthless decision to drop Marc O'Sé, but forgot about this in the aftermath of what was a huge win in that Mayo replay.
Still though, 2014 All Ireland was a big achievement. There was some good football played and in the final, although it was a poor spectacle, Fitz got a lot of calls and the tactics right. Again a bit slow to make changes. McBrearty had almost dragged Donegal back into it before a change was made for example. Still though it was a deserved win that day. Credit will always be due for that win.

I think the real issues with Fitzmaurice have appeared since 2015. The final that year was a massive debacle. The team selection, tactics, game management were all appalling by Fitzmaurice that day. Leaving the Gooch on for the entire game while withdrawing Geaney and JOD was just mind-boggling. Also, the disgraceful decision to bring on his brother in law, who had not even played club football in 2 years, was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in my life. A shambles and the beginning of the end that day I thought.
Cian O'Neill seemed to bear the brunt of the blame for 2015, unfairly in my view. He left anyway and we replaced this highly qualified coach and sports scientist with..well, not going to get too nasty, but we certainly have not had an adequate level of coach or S&C since Cian O'Neill left. We've been bluffing in this regard and have paid the price repeatedly. I think of all the top contenders in Football since 2015, we are the least professional in our approach to the game, in terms of coaching, Strength and Conditioning and tactically.

2016 we went with an out and out sweeper in the Dublin game. I don't think it had been tried much in the league, so whatever about in training, players were not fully tuned into it. It didn't really work and despite playing well at times and being in a decent position in the final quarter against Dublin, we lost the game. The substitution of Paul Geaney for Marc O'Sé with the game tied in the 68th minute was yet another crazy change to make no matter what way you look at it.
2017 -the Mayo drawn game and replay were a shambles when viewed overall. A 19 year old making his debut as a sweeper in a big game whn you have never tried the tactic or formation is again, completely bonkers and unsurprisingly backfired.

Said enough about previous games this year before here, but just going back to yesterday - the warmup (not for the first time) was woefully lethargic and poor looking. Is that the fault of the totally underqualified guy running it? The manager who oversees it? The players? A mix, but the manager has to take responsibility for his management setup surely.

Two of the "tactical" issues that would strike anybody who has a clue about Gaelic football that saw the 1st half: 1.After 5 years in the job and a 7 months to work on various approaches, Kerry's attacking plan was based around kicking the ball high into Donaghy. Kieran Donaghy has been a great servant but is 35 and spent the winter playing basketball, missing the entire league. I would suggest in all fairness that this sort of thing is something that a Junior club manager would get excoriated for at an AGM, probably sacked being honest.
2.On top of that - our own kickouts were again, something akin to a poor Junior club team. No real consistent movement, no discernable shape or tactics. As a result, Kelly repeatedly ended up kicking the ball high and long right down the middle. Kildare were dominant in the air in the first half and also won the vast majority of the breaks. The sending off changed the game in this and every other regard.
I felt that Shane Murphy being dropped after the Galway game was a massive cop out by Fitzmaurice. Yes, there were a couple of kicks over the line in that game. The big issue on our kickouts in that game though was the complete lack of good movement along with the fact that Galway were dominating in the air and on the breaking ball (something that clearly wasn't even recognised or worked on by management in the interim based on yesterday's game?)

We have been left behind and look like a Div 3 team on restarts since 2015 which is just another of the systems failures of Fitzmaurice time in charge. Has there been a goalkeeping coach since Diarmuid Murphy left? I don't even know.

Anyway, possibly too long a post, but needed some perspective rather than a throwaway comment.
I'm happy Fitzmaurice is gone being honest and moving forward, whoever takes the manager job, we definitely could do with someone like Donie Buckley being brought in along with a vast improvement in S&C setup. A Peter Keane/Donie Buckley setup would appear to be a good option right now possibly. I have great time for what Jack O'Connor has done for Kerry football, but the last 3 years he has made a lot of bad calls and errors in the under 21/under 20 arena and he appears to have fallen behind a bit tactically to me also.
Either way, it's one of those "winters of discontent" ahead for us to a degree. Hopefully we get a 2004 type revival based on a fresh approach.