Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

ciarriaithuaidh

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

This is delusional. Which All Ireland. What decisions were wrong precisely. What matches.

See above. I would suggest you take off the blinkers and be honest about the facts now whatever your viewpoint.

Poor_old_gill

Superb post and really sums up the bewilderment that has been felt by the majority of Kerry fans over the last few years.

Mr. Incognito

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Withdrawing Geaney for Marc O'Se at a crutial time v Dublin in a SF.
Might have won he game and played Mayo in the final, and sure they would win that.

The other was the introduction of Galvin who was back from retirement and had played feck all football in the 2015 final.

Was there no one else to being on.

They are two decision that are just bizzare.

We were defending a lead and the ref missed a shoulder to the chest from K Mcmeniman that would have put us two points up. We win that and hes a hero.

Its rather arrogant to think we would have beaten Mayo who were undone by two freak own goals

Paul Galvin came in to do a job due to lack of breaking ball winners in midfield. The mark has cleaned that up. I dont see how that call lost us an all ireland. We were destroyed that day. The weather kept us to three points

keane2097

Can't take anyone seriously who doesn't recognise what a debacle the Galvin thing was.

ciarriaithuaidh

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

We were defending a lead and the ref missed a shoulder to the chest that would have put us two points up. We win that and hes a hero.

Its rather arrogant to think we would have beaten Mayo who were undone by two freak own goals

Paul Galvin came in to do a job due to lack of breaking ball winners in midfield. The mark has cleaned that up. I dont see how that call lost us an all ireland. We were destroyed that day. The weather kept us to three points

Why would you bring in a 36 year old who was not even playing club football to do ANY job?? Get real FFS!

dobman88

keane2097 wrote: »

Can't take anyone seriously who doesn't recognise what a debacle the Galvin thing was.

Quoting this post in case you delete it like the one you deleted earlier

keane2097

dobman88 wrote: »

Quoting this post in case you delete it like the one you deleted earlier

I won't.

Fr Tod Umptious

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

So the Fitzmaurice era is over. And to be fair, give the man credit, he went quickly and didn't wait for the board to do the necessary. I'd question how much truth there is in the "bag of anonymous hate mail" stuff and I also thought his line about "taking pressure off the younger players" was fairly disingenuous. Performances and results are the reason he came under pressure and is gone, that's all.

I found this a bit odd in his interview with Sky last night.

If he wanted to do that he should have steeped down 12 months ago.

I'll take Tuesday off to read the full post.

ciarriaithuaidh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I found this a bit odd in his interview with Sky last night.

If he wanted to do that he should have steeped down 12 months ago.

I'll take Tuesday off to read the full post.

Not too busy analysing another Mayo All Ireland defeat no?

Fr Tod Umptious

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Not too busy analysing another Mayo All Ireland defeat no?

Not much to analyse there, Kildare were the better team, well deserved.

munster87

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

So the Fitzmaurice era is over. And to be fair, give the man credit, he went quickly and didn't wait for the board to do the necessary. I'd question how much truth there is in the "bag of anonymous hate mail" stuff and I also thought his line about "taking pressure off the younger players" was fairly disingenuous. Performances and results are the reason he came under pressure and is gone, that's all.

On the game yesterday - Kildare were playing really good stuff and allowed to play good stuff in the first half, by a Kerry team that looked like it had nothing to play for. Right from the warm-up (more on that later) there was a sense of lethargy from too many players. The ridiculous re-selection of Killian Young at 6 was shown up for what it was with Paul Cribbin scoring 5 from play in the first half. 4 of those under zero pressure 40m or less from goal.
David Clifford was slow to get into the game and had a few panicky sort of shots early on, but once he got going he showed his class. The Kerry tactics early on were a bad version of 2006 tactics - lump the ball into Donaghy basically. It didn't work, as a lot of the ball was poor, Donaghy is no longer as sharp as he was and also, there was no Kerry player to pick up breaks off this ball. As if they weren't fully briefed or aware of what the tactics were.
Kildare were running the ball with great purpose and Kevin Feely was the dominant figure on kickouts also ensuring they had plenty possession.
The penalty by Clifford brought Kerry into the game but then the sending off got Kerry off the hook really. I've been told by quite a few Kerry people who were in the stand close to it that it was soft enough, BUT stupid by Kelly hitting someone in the face regardless. No need when 5 pts up and dominating. He was just after sticking a great goal aswell. Maybe he was too pumped up.

The second half then was made easier for Kerry and once we got a few points ahead Kildare didn't kill themselves. BUT, we did play some good stuff and reallly went for it. Players were more urgent, moving with more zip etc. James O'Donoghue came in and showed flashes of his best, Geaney showed flashes of his true self finally, Jack Barry did well on front foot. Clifford was majestic though and is such an exciting prospect. Mad to think he's only 19.
Also though, Peter Crowley was left 1 v 1 at fullback several times in the 2nd half, which in any sort of real game would be suicidal policy. Kerry didn't really have or need a centre back in the 2nd half so it was a bit unrealistic to look at 2nd half as being any huge positive.

Anyway, on Ftzmaurice era. Firstly, it has to be said Fitz took the job in 2012 when only 36 and he didn't really want it. He wanted to stick with the u21s. However there was no other real condidate, so he took it. Credit due for that.
And in 2013 we got the max out of the team I would say. Nobody expected much, but we played good football in the semi final and were level with Dublin in the last minute.
There were signs in that game though of some of the poor judgement, that to me would be sadly one of the hallmarks of this era. Jack Sherwood - a player who had been a middling u21 in 2012 AND who had never played a championship game at senior level, had played a sum total of 17 mins in a league game - was brought off the bench to mark Kevin McMenamon when the game was in the melting pot. A bizarre and unjustifiable decision, which of course backfired.
2014 - got out of jail a bit in drawn semi final. Mayo were totally dominant in the 2nd half that day, but Donaghy was thrown on in desperation and setup the goal for JOD which was crucial. A big weakness of Fitzmaurice was exposed in between the drawn game and replay I felt and it went a bit unnoticed. Mayo had basically not bothered marking Mikey Geaney in the drawn game and as a result, even when they went down to 14 it was no advantage to Kerry. He was taken off after around 45 mins in the drawn game, but still started the replay. Everyone praised the ruthless decision to drop Marc O'Sé, but forgot about this in the aftermath of what was a huge win in that Mayo replay.
Still though, 2014 All Ireland was a big achievement. There was some good football played and in the final, although it was a poor spectacle, Fitz got a lot of calls and the tactics right. Again a bit slow to make changes. McBrearty had almost dragged Donegal back into it before a change was made for example. Still though it was a deserved win that day. Credit will always be due for that win.

I think the real issues with Fitzmaurice have appeared since 2015. The final that year was a massive debacle. The team selection, tactics, game management were all appalling by Fitzmaurice that day. Leaving the Gooch on for the entire game while withdrawing Geaney and JOD was just mind-boggling. Also, the disgraceful decision to bring on his brother in law, who had not even played club football in 2 years, was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in my life. A shambles and the beginning of the end that day I thought.
Cian O'Neill seemed to bear the brunt of the blame for 2015, unfairly in my view. He left anyway and we replaced this highly qualified coach and sports scientist with..well, not going to get too nasty, but we certainly have not had an adequate level of coach or S&C since Cian O'Neill left. We've been bluffing in this regard and have paid the price repeatedly. I think of all the top contenders in Football since 2015, we are the least professional in our approach to the game, in terms of coaching, Strength and Conditioning and tactically.

2016 we went with an out and out sweeper in the Dublin game. I don't think it had been tried much in the league, so whatever about in training, players were not fully tuned into it. It didn't really work and despite playing well at times and being in a decent position in the final quarter against Dublin, we lost the game. The substitution of Paul Geaney for Marc O'Sé with the game tied in the 68th minute was yet another crazy change to make no matter what way you look at it.
2017 -the Mayo drawn game and replay were a shambles when viewed overall. A 19 year old making his debut as a sweeper in a big game whn you have never tried the tactic or formation is again, completely bonkers and unsurprisingly backfired.

Said enough about previous games this year before here, but just going back to yesterday - the warmup (not for the first time) was woefully lethargic and poor looking. Is that the fault of the totally underqualified guy running it? The manager who oversees it? The players? A mix, but the manager has to take responsibility for his management setup surely.

Two of the "tactical" issues that would strike anybody who has a clue about Gaelic football that saw the 1st half: 1.After 5 years in the job and a 7 months to work on various approaches, Kerry's attacking plan was based around kicking the ball high into Donaghy. Kieran Donaghy has been a great servant but is 35 and spent the winter playing basketball, missing the entire league. I would suggest in all fairness that this sort of thing is something that a Junior club manager would get excoriated for at an AGM, probably sacked being honest.
2.On top of that - our own kickouts were again, something akin to a poor Junior club team. No real consistent movement, no discernable shape or tactics. As a result, Kelly repeatedly ended up kicking the ball high and long right down the middle. Kildare were dominant in the air in the first half and also won the vast majority of the breaks. The sending off changed the game in this and every other regard.
I felt that Shane Murphy being dropped after the Galway game was a massive cop out by Fitzmaurice. Yes, there were a couple of kicks over the line in that game. The big issue on our kickouts in that game though was the complete lack of good movement along with the fact that Galway were dominating in the air and on the breaking ball (something that clearly wasn't even recognised or worked on by management in the interim based on yesterday's game?)

We have been left behind and look like a Div 3 team on restarts since 2015 which is just another of the systems failures of Fitzmaurice time in charge. Has there been a goalkeeping coach since Diarmuid Murphy left? I don't even know.

Anyway, possibly too long a post, but needed some perspective rather than a throwaway comment.
I'm happy Fitzmaurice is gone being honest and moving forward, whoever takes the manager job, we definitely could do with someone like Donie Buckley being brought in along with a vast improvement in S&C setup. A Peter Keane/Donie Buckley setup would appear to be a good option right now possibly. I have great time for what Jack O'Connor has done for Kerry football, but the last 3 years he has made a lot of bad calls and errors in the under 21/under 20 arena and he appears to have fallen behind a bit tactically to me also.
Either way, it's one of those "winters of discontent" ahead for us to a degree. Hopefully we get a 2004 type revival based on a fresh approach.

Good post. Sherwood is always a decision that stands out for me. Was almost unbelievable in my opinion. Must have been flying in training.

Bass Reeves

Napoleon when appointing a general always asked the question ''is he lucky''. Fitzmaurice was an unlucky manager one All Ireland in six attempts in a county that expects one in three or four. You would wonder why one one of the greatest Military leaders quoted that and the following
"All great events hang by a hair, I believe in luck, and the wise man neglects nothing which contributes to his destiny"

The reason being there is an old saying ''you make your own luck''. Fitzmaurice took the job in 2012 as other said when nobody wanted it. In 2013 and 2014 his management was excellent since then it has been downhill. It has been one step forward and two backwards. He was reappointed last year I think against the wishes of Kerry supporters.

I am not a fair weather supporter and neither are the majority of Kerry people. It was disheartening and disappointing yesterday to see Kerry supporters thronging out of our home ground with 10 minutes to go and we winning by 10 points. Most of these are genuine Kerry people who even though we were winning were disappointed with what they has seen in the first half. I stayed until the end but like all Kerry people was deflated by the performance.

Early this year I expressed my dismay with the Kerry bench. Too many old player with little or nothing to offer. I am not happy to be proved right, I would much prefer to be in Dublin this time 4 weeks and proved wrong.

Edgware

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Napoleon when appointing a general always asked the question ''is he lucky''. Fitzmaurice was an unlucky manager one All Ireland in six attempts in a county that expects one in three or four. You would wonder why one one of the greatest Military leaders quoted that and the following
"All great events hang by a hair, I believe in luck, and the wise man neglects nothing which contributes to his destiny"

The reason being there is an old saying ''you make your own luck''. Fitzmaurice took the job in 2012 as other said when nobody wanted it. In 2013 and 2014 his management was excellent since then it has been downhill. It has been one step forward and two backwards. He was reappointed last year I think against the wishes of Kerry supporters.

I am not a fair weather supporter and neither are the majority of Kerry people. It was disheartening and disappointing yesterday to see Kerry supporters thronging out of our home ground with 10 minutes to go and we winning by 10 points. Most of these are genuine Kerry people who even though we were winning were disappointed with what they has seen in the first half. I stayed until the end but like all Kerry people was deflated by the performance.

Early this year I expressed my dismay with the Kerry bench. Too many old player with little or nothing to offer. I am not happy to be proved right, I would much prefer to be in Dublin this time 4 weeks and proved wrong.

Its not only in Kerry that old players are holding spots on the bench. Theres so many goodies to be picked up at county level now through the GPA etc that players wont go until they are given a good push

dobman88

Spillane with quite the rant on Sunday Game there.

Beechwoodspark

dobman88 wrote: »

Spillane with quite the rant on Sunday Game there.

What did he say?

SecretsOfEarth

dobman88 wrote: »

Spillane with quite the rant on Sunday Game there.

Not a total rant really, didn't say anything that didn't warrant saying. It was essentially a condensed version of ciarraithuaidh's excellent post. Wasn't overly harsh or unfair - thanked Eamonn but pointed out critical issues.

dobman88

SecretsOfEarth wrote: »

Not a total rant really, didn't say anything that didn't warrant saying. It was essentially a condensed version of ciarraithuaidh's excellent post. Wasn't overly harsh or unfair - thanked Eamonn but pointed out critical issues.

That's fair.

Ciarraithuaidh was a lot more articulate with his post in fairness. I spose what he said was true, just his style made it seem more like a rant.

jimmytwotimes 2013

ciarraithuaidh, thanks for the post.

Reflects what a lot of kerry supporters would have been thinking over the last year or two. This year was to be a new dawn but it was clear during the league that we had no gameplan on kickouts, either playing or not playing a sweeper, our support of a runner was hit and miss and our attack when facing a sweeper was idiotic, repeatedly kicking the ball in to wherever a sweeper was sitting.

Fitzmaurice owes kerry nothing but the time was right to move on. Failing tactically is one thing but playing Galvin and Young when we all knew they shouldn't be on would be the one thing that sits uneasily with a lot of supporters.

No hate tho from nearly anyone i know who follow or are involved in some way in football in the county but simple questions, that needed to be asked, were asked as the signs of progress disappeared.

SecretsOfEarth

dobman88 wrote: »

That's fair.

Ciarraithuaidh was a lot more articulate with his post in fairness. I spose what he said was true, just his style made it seem more like a rant.

Oh definitely, I agree. Pat's speech, while planned to a degree, was a lot more off the cuff and passion really took over. It did appear like a rant of sorts because of the sheer speed and blunt nature of his speech but he was accurate.

jimmytwotimes 2013

SecretsOfEarth wrote: »

Oh definitely, I agree. Pat's speech, while planned to a degree, was a lot more off the cuff and passion really took over. It did appear like a rant of sorts because of the sheer speed and blunt nature of his speech but he was accurate.

Pat could be ordering food in a chinese and it would come across as a rant. He just gets excited once he starts talking. Occasionally he can made a valid point but only occasionally:)

SecretsOfEarth

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Pat could be ordering food in a chinese and it would come across as a rant. He just gets excited once he starts talking. Occasionally he can made a valid point but only occasionally:)

My favourite Pat-ism is when, while someone else is speaking, he gets so anxious and excited to dive in that it physically impacts him. He starts shuffling in his chair, desperately stuttering to attempt to launch into his oxygen-depriving spiel.

ciarriaithuaidh

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

ciarraithuaidh, thanks for the post.

Reflects what a lot of kerry supporters would have been thinking over the last year or two. This year was to be a new dawn but it was clear during the league that we had no gameplan on kickouts, either playing or not playing a sweeper, our support of a runner was hit and miss and our attack when facing a sweeper was idiotic, repeatedly kicking the ball in to wherever a sweeper was sitting.

Fitzmaurice owes kerry nothing but the time was right to move on. Failing tactically is one thing but playing Galvin and Young when we all knew they shouldn't be on would be the one thing that sits uneasily with a lot of supporters.

No hate tho from nearly anyone i know who follow or are involved in some way in football in the county but simple questions, that needed to be asked, were asked as the signs of progress disappeared.

No need to thank me. Was just venting my frustrations, same as a lot of people have been doing.

I don't know anyone who would even contemplate sending "hate mail" to Fitzmaurice or anyone involved with Kerry squad. That sounds fairly bizarre in this day and age.
I have seen a few slightly OTT social media posts alright but nothing too personal. I don't see why this has to BE personal or spiteful. As I mentioned in my post, Fitzmaurice deserves a lot of credit. He's still fairly young as a manager and he is not finished in Football yet I'm sure.

I stand by every word of my post though. Criticisms that are very valid can be levelled at management from the last 5 years.

Moving on now, the job is for us to improve our S&C and have the right mix of Coaching and tactical knowledge in the management team.

The_Honeybadger

You’d have to laugh at Spillane. He starts off with his kerry ‘animals’ bit and the unfair criticism on social media, and then proceeds to cut the legs from under Eamon himself. Good old Pat.

The_Honeybadger

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Moving on now, the job is for us to improve our S&C and have the right mix of Coaching and tactical knowledge in the management team.

Was the S & C issue not supposedly solved last winter with the addition of Joe O’Connor as head of athletic development?

Bringing in a top class coach is arguably more important than the choice of the next manager. Our execution of the basics like tackling and kickouts has been woeful for some time.

Nidgeweasel

SecretsOfEarth wrote: »

Not a total rant really, didn't say anything that didn't warrant saying. It was essentially a condensed version of ciarraithuaidh's excellent post. Wasn't overly harsh or unfair - thanked Eamonn but pointed out critical issues.

As someone not from Kerry, I thought Spillane came across dreadfully. Really poor but we are outside of the fence.

But we had a manager for 3 years who was toxic so understand the relief of him going.

SecretsOfEarth

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

As someone not from Kerry, I thought Spillane came across dreadfully. Really poor but we are outside of the fence.

But we had a manager for 3 years who was toxic so understand the relief of him going.

To be fair to him, I think he largely voiced the opinion and mood of the county as a whole. Nobody (well, nobody rational at least) has a personal issue or vendetta towards Eamonn. It's mainly frustration and confusion at some persistent problems and decision making. The goalkeeper has been rotated frequently with little improvement, a kickout strategy hasn't been developed, no discernible defensive shape has ever been implemented successfully, substitutions have frequently baffled and overall there was a fearful conservatism where, more often than not, the end most certainly did not justify the means.

I have no issue with Eamonn, I think he conducted himself with grace and honour. It is simply objective analysis of his performance in a role. However, I commend him for his bravery in stepping up when many hid from the job, and will always thank him for 2014.

Now I have to guess which manager you're referring to!

Speakerboxx

Best of luck to Fitzmaurice. He came in and took on the Kerry job when nobody else wanted it. Made a few unusual tactical decisions over the years but still Kerry were always dangerous in championship. He came under alot of pressure last 2-3 years by the Kerry fans. Some of it warranted but some of it totally unnecessary. Not nice to be receiving hate mate for a job that's not professional and doing it for the love of the game and of course Kerry football. A change in personal is not a bad thing and I'm sure Kerry will never too far away from an All Ireland. Will Kieran Donaghey stay another year? A great servant to Kerry football if he does decide to call it a day?

windy shepard henderson

mickeyk wrote: »

You’d have to laugh at Spillane. He starts off with his kerry ‘animals’ bit and the unfair criticism on social media, and then proceeds to cut the legs from under Eamon himself. Good old Pat.

animals was a terrible word to use , but paudi or pat are right ,ye are impossible to please as supporters because ye have won 37 all irelands , i dont think that will ever be touched

we won our 4th in hurling 5 years ago and we are still leaning on the shoulder of that success looking out over the sea thinking about what we have achieved

kevin keegan said once his one regret in management with newcastle united was they never stopped to smell the roses , they never stopped in the mid to late 90s to appreciate there success and what they had achieved enjoy yer success more lads when ye get it ye have plenty to work with for more sucess

my nod for the next kerry boss would be pat o shea , he probably wont put his name forward but he is a serious coach , personally i would prefer someone like ambrose o'donovan as he would be so passionate about kerry football he would probably give the entire kerry team talk live to joanne cantwell before the game starts :pac:

acequion

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

SecretsOfEarth wrote: »

Oh definitely, I agree. Pat's speech, while planned to a degree, was a lot more off the cuff and passion really took over. It did appear like a rant of sorts because of the sheer speed and blunt nature of his speech but he was accurate.

Pat could be ordering food in a chinese and it would come across as a rant. He just gets excited once he starts talking. Occasionally he can made a valid point but only occasionally:)

That's hilarious, am having a good chuckle here.:):)

pakie ed

Kerry supporters will have to wake up to the new world of All Ireland football championship. To win now in your have to win 7 games. Kerry won all theirs winning 3 or 4. They would be half fit and beat Cork in munster hit full fitness in August for a simi final and peak in September. The Kerry supporters have been reared to winning Titles but it a changed world now.