Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

wonga77

Looks like you will just have to agree to disagree with the forum...

C__MC

mickeyk wrote: »

Yes and no. The same complaints about poor kickouts, the goalie musical chairs situation, poor fitness and conditioning, defenders looking like headless chickens etc. have been repeated on here and other forums for years. It was nothing personal, people had genuine concerns about certain things. I don’t know who was doing the hands on coaching in this setup but I think that’s where the big issue was. All of the other top level teams looked better coached and prepared.

I’d agree that the Mayo replay last year was a bit of a nadir for Éamonn, there really was no way back after that and it’s a pity he didn’t leave then with a very credible record.

In April 2017 how did people rate him after the league final win? Things looked up- even though it was only the league.

Cian o Neil was a serious loss to Kerry. Kerry looked so well conditioned in 2014 and 15. In 2015 Kerry had so talented many forwards to pick from- it was scary

The_Honeybadger

C__MC wrote: »

In April 2017 how did people rate him after the league final win? Things looked up- even though it was only the league.

Cian o Neil was a serious loss to Kerry. Kerry looked so well conditioned in 2014 and 15. In 2015 Kerry had so talented many forwards to pick from- it was scary

Yes people were generally encouraged at that stage, it was a great boost but not everyone was convinced even then. I think the win masked very clear issues, we were very poor during that league and sort of fell in to the final almost by accident when an unlikely set of results saw us finish second.

Cian o neill was a massive loss without a doubt, never adequately replaced. This is part of what I meant in saying that our players weren’t prepared as well as others.

I also think we missed the presence of Aidan O’Mahony after he retired two years ago, defence really fell apart after that, not that it was particularly great when he was there mind you.

ShamoBuc

I usually find this thread interesting, but it has gone up a level in the last few days.

He had to go, there's not much doubt about that. I think he stayed 12 months too long. All the talk of hate mail and the psyche of some Kerry fans is a pity. Kerry fans are passionate and knowledgeable, but there are eejits everywhere.

The record Kerry have at minor level alone in the last few years is simply awesome. Those players need to be more involved at senior level. Fitz had a few old guard players that could and should have been moved on a lot sooner. With Clifford on his meteoric rise, a team could be based around the youth brigade. Managing them would surely be something O'Conoor would like to take on. He really could bring a younger set up in and Kerry would reep the rewards.

Fr Tod Umptious

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I usually find this thread interesting, but it has gone up a level in the last few days.

He had to go, there's not much doubt about that. I think he stayed 12 months too long. All the talk of hate mail and the psyche of some Kerry fans is a pity. Kerry fans are passionate and knowledgeable, but there are eejits everywhere.

The record Kerry have at minor level alone in the last few years is simply awesome. Those players need to be more involved at senior level. Fitz had a few old guard players that could and should have been moved on a lot sooner. With Clifford on his meteoric rise, a team could be based around the youth brigade. Managing them would surely be something O'Conoor would like to take on. He really could bring a younger set up in and Kerry would reep the rewards.

Interesting point made of Terracec Talk last night.

Kildare won the u20 All Ireland this weekend beating Kerry on the way.

Kerry beat them by 22 points in the minor (u18) semi final two years ago.

Now that u20 team were missing both Sean O' Shea and David Clifford which are big losses but a lot of the same players on each side were still involved
The point being made was "what is wrong with the Kerry transition from minor"

Of the three minor championship winners Kerry have failed to produce it at the next level thus far.

Mr. Incognito

wonga77 wrote: »

Looks like you will just have to agree to disagree with the forum...

I have no difficulty doing so where I think they are wrong.

Too many sheep listening to clowns on Radio Kerry and Terrace Talk and repeating nonsense.

I see the same arrogant crap here. Galway and Monaghan are not bad teams.

We have no God Given right to win any Sunday. It is won through hard work and tactics.

Kerry were very tactical under Fitzmaurice. They were not sophisticated under Jack O Connor or Paudi. Paudi was a man manger and fire and brimstone guy.

Jack O Connor was not a tactical manager. If he was, given the team he had we would have put 5 in a row together.

Darragh O Shea talked about not having any kick out stategy under Jack only lumping the ball down and that he was the designated 45 taker in 2009.

ciarriaithuaidh

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have no difficulty doing so where I think they are wrong.

Too many sheep listening to clowns on Radio Kerry and Terrace Talk and repeating nonsense.

I see the same arrogant crap here. Galway and Monaghan are not bad teams.

We have no God Given right to win any Sunday. It is won through hard work and tactics.

Kerry were very tactical under Fitzmaurice. They were not sophisticated under Jack O Connor or Paudi. Paudi was a man manger and fire and brimstone guy.

Jack O Connor was not a tactical manager. If he was, given the team he had we would have put 5 in a row together.

Darragh O Shea talked about not having any kick out stategy under Jack only lumping the ball down and that he was the designated 45 taker in 2009.

Yeah I’m totally basing my opinion on listening to Terrace talk alright. :rolleyes:

You can have an opinion as I’ve said already, but you have been factually incorrect (as pointed out) in many of your posts, you are twisting a lot of other things to suit your own opinion and you can’t defend yourself then when called out on it.

Look at your post above for example. Giving out about Jack because of kickout strategy in 2009..who had ANY complex kickout strategy in 2009? Dublin and everyone else were yet to evolve into what we see today. So that’s like criticising a team from the 1960s for not doing a warmup..Incidentally, we won the All Ireland in 2009.
Fast forward to last Saturday night in Killarney. What was Kerry’s kickout strategy tell me? Because in the first half it was very much WORSE than what a 2009 team would do in my eyes..

Mr. Incognito

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Yeah I’m totally basing my opinion on listening to Terrace talk alright. :rolleyes:

You can have an opinion as I’ve said already, but you have been factually incorrect (as pointed out) in many of your posts, you are twisting a lot of other things to suit your own opinion and you can’t defend yourself then when called out on it.

Look at your post above for example. Giving out about Jack because of kickout strategy in 2009..who had ANY complex kickout strategy in 2009? Dublin and everyone else were yet to evolve into what we see today. So that’s like criticising a team from the 1960s for not doing a warmup..Incidentally, we won the All Ireland in 2009.
Fast forward to last Saturday night in Killarney. What was Kerry’s kickout strategy tell me? Because in the first half it was very much WORSE than what a 2009 team would do in my eyes..

We kicked short all day and carried it up. Not really rocket science

dobman88

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

We kicked short all day and carried it up. Not really rocket science

I dunno what game you were watching but that's not what happened or anything close to it.

ciarriaithuaidh

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

We kicked short all day and carried it up. Not really rocket science

Really? I must have imagined all the long kickouts Kildare won in the first half - despite the fact that I was looking right at it from the terrace so.
The scoreboard that had Kildare 1-12 to 1-6 up must have been an error I'd say too was it? And there was a guy who looked like the Kildare centre-forward Paul Cribbin who kicked 5 points from play off Killian Young, but that can't be right can it? Or was it Jack O'Connor's fault maybe?

Waste of time talking to you clearly anyway, so that's enough.

keane2097

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

We kicked short all day and carried it up. Not really rocket science

This is bizarre.

dobman88

keane2097 wrote: »

This is bizarre.

Every post he's made has been bizarre.

He says he's a Killarney man, he'd be laughed out of any pub in Killarney with such nonsense.

Speakerboxx

dobman88 wrote: »

Every post he's made has been bizarre.

He says he's a Killarney man, he'd be laughed out of any pub in Killarney with such nonsense.

would Kerry allow an outside manager to take charge?

The_Honeybadger

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]

Interesting point made of Terracec Talk last night.

Kildare won the u20 All Ireland this weekend beating Kerry on the way.

Kerry beat them by 22 points in the minor (u18) semi final two years ago.

Now that u20 team were missing both Sean O' Shea and David Clifford which are big losses but a lot of the same players on each side were still involved
The point being made was "what is wrong with the Kerry transition from minor"

Of the three minor championship winners Kerry have failed to produce it at the next level thus far.

I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong.

The 2014 minor team lost the U21 semi to Galway but seven of that team played Senior this year and looked comfortable. Mark O’Connor was a big loss to this team as he was a dominant midfielder and the star of the show in 2014-15, he had moved to Australia at that stage and never played U21.

The 2015 team didn’t play at that level due to the change from U21 to U20 so unfair to say they failed to win it

I think the 2016 team really missed Clifford and O’Shea. Christ the seniors would have been lost without them this year what influence would they have had at U20? No disrespect to Kildare but that semi final is a very different game if that pair are on the field.

The main thing is that players are coming through to senior, hopefully more will follow. It’s something that get regularly brought up but I don’t thinks it’s anything to get too worried about personally.

Mr. Incognito

More posts attacking the poster not the posts. I get most of my information from watching the games. You stick to the tatttle in the pub there with other drunk lads who will agree with your nonsense.

Feel free to post the kick out stats or the video and count them.

I was in the terrace watching the game.

Time and time again Kerry kicked short to a back who came running in to collect the ball.

Once again we have a cohort of fans who are blinkered to reality. Pick on one demonstrably false fact and think by collective bullying they can make it reality.

Kildare kicked long and won breaking ball for most of their scores. Most of their scores were a simple three man weave that popped the ball to the third man on the 40 and they popped it over from distance. I dont recall many Kildare wides in the first half. 2 to 3 at most. Most of those went over.

Kerry took control in the second half with a possession running game.

This really is just childish foolishness on here now.

dobman88

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

More posts attacking the poster not the posts. I get most of my information from watching the games. You stick to the tatttle in the pub there with other drunk lads who will agree with your nonsense.

Feel free to post the kick out stats or the video and count them.

I was in the terrace watching the game.

Time and time again Kerry kicked short to a back who came running in to collect the ball.

Once again we have a cohort of fans who are blinkered to reality. Pick on one demonstrably false fact and think by collective bullying they can make it reality.

Kildare kicked long and won breaking ball for most of their scores. Most of their scores were a simple three man weave that popped the ball to the third man on the 40 and they popped it over from distance. I dont recall many Kildare wides in the first half. 2 to 3 at most. Most of those went over.

Kerry took control in the second half with a possession running game.

This really is just childish foolishness on here now.

I can think of at least 4 kick outs in the first half that went directly into the hand of a Kildare man in midfield or out over the line. We didn't kick short all day as you suggested

dobman88

Also I would suggest most here are able to form their own opinions, I mute the half time "analysis" on telly and prefer to discuss the game with the people I watch it with. Also have probably listened to terrace talk 5 times in my life and only watch the Sunday game to see highlights of games I've missed.

It takes a big man to admit they're wrong but you just don't seem capable of it yet. Unless you think what you're saying is correct and everyone disagreeing with you is wrong, then that's just another dose of madness

dobman88

Speakerboxx wrote: »

would Kerry allow an outside manager to take charge?

Don't think it's happened before tbh but I don't see why not once they're up to the job, problem is lack of available candidates. Personally wouldn't want someone like McGuinness or Horan in. Peter Keane would be my favourite pick.

ShamoBuc

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Kerry took control in the second half with a possession running game.

This really is just childish foolishness on here now.

Kerry took control....... playing 14 men!


Childish? .....well you started it

Mr. Incognito

dobman88 wrote: »

Also I would suggest most here are able to form their own opinions, I mute the half time "analysis" on telly and prefer to discuss the game with the people I watch it with. Also have probably listened to terrace talk 5 times in my life and only watch the Sunday game to see highlights of games I've missed.

It takes a big man to admit they're wrong but you just don't seem capable of it yet. Unless you think what you're saying is correct and everyone disagreeing with you is wrong, then that's just another dose of madness

When people are blaming Fitzmaurice as the problem with Kerry they are flat out wrong.

Kerry mix their kick outs. The large majority are short. After a Kildare score the Goal keeper kicked it staight over the sideline.

The problem with Kerry is not down to the manager. A LOT of players were simply not up to the standard against Galway, or Monaghan. That's not tactics. They simply did not play well.

People want simplistic answers. They want to say- oh it's all his fault. As if that will paper over the cracks.

We dont have a full back. Our half back line is porous. Our Keeper position isnt settled.

Kerry are not good enough at present. Galway and Monaghan were better on the day.

Its not the ref, or the manager, or the fault of Killian Young.

We were not good enough.

But we can learn, we can develop, we can adapt.

Taking an unrealistic blinkered approach or a totally stupid one such as Terrace talk advocating players being released for league games during the championship is wrong.

Instead of debating any of these points I am being personally attacked and ridiculed.

The last vestage of someone who has no points to make is to attack the poster.

There are a LOT of posters here with no points to make other than ignorant attacks.

They are not supporters. They are the opposite. They are non supporters.

There are attacks on here calling players morons, and useless. It sickens me.

Mr. Incognito

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Kerry took control....... playing 14 men!


Childish? .....well you started it

More nonsense.

We made two changes at half time and turned a five point loss into a large lead changing our tactics.

Plenty of teams have won with 14 men including us against Armagh.

Once again a simplistic lazy analysis.

dobman88

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

When people are blaming Fitzmaurice as the problem with Kerry they are flat out wrong.

Kerry mix their kick outs. The large majority are short. After a Kildare score the Goal keeper kicked it staight over the sideline.

The problem with Kerry is not down to the manager. A LOT of players were simply not up to the standard against Galway, or Monaghan. That's not tactics. They simply did not play well.

People want simplistic answers. They want to say- oh it's all his fault. As if that will paper over the cracks.

We dont have a full back. Our half back line is porous. Our Keeper position isnt settled.

Kerry are not good enough at present. Galway and Monaghan were better on the day.

Its not the ref, or the manager, or the fault of Killian Young.

We were not good enough.

But we can learn, we can develop, we can adapt.

Taking an unrealistic blinkered approach or a totally stupid one such as Terrace talk advocating players being released for league games during the championship is wrong.

Instead of debating any of these points I am being personally attacked and ridiculed.

The last vestage of someone who has no points to make is to attack the poster.

There are a LOT of posters here with no points to make other than ignorant attacks.

They are not supporters. They are the opposite. They are non supporters.

So let them stay at home and whine.

At the end of the day, EF was the manager and his decision is final so the buck stops with him.

Kerry mix their kick out? Only a few posts should you said they went short all day?

The players are supposed to be told by the manager what to do, if they don't know their role it's down to EF at the end of the day. Also constantly rotating players didn't help.

The simple answer is play your strongest team from the start, starting Donaghy and Young is not your strongest team as was evidenced by the introduction of James and Kev Mac who added pace to the team.

Again, he kept changing the full back and half back line so nobody had time to settle.

I haven't seen anyone particularly blame the ref, Eamonn or Young tbf. Eamonn and Killian owe absolutely nothing to the Kerry jersey.

We were not good enough, I agree.

Learn develop and adapt, I also agree. But we need a new management team and a clear out of older players. Get the youth in and build it properly.

Stop listening to terrace talk, you'll give yourself a stroke.

Last few lines of your post is just a rant so I'll let you at it.

ciarriaithuaidh

Let's face it lads, we're all wrong and he's right.

I've seen delusional posters before but this is the best yet to be fair!

Mr. Incognito

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Let's face it lads, we're all wrong and he's right.

I've seen delusional posters before but this is the best yet to be fair!

Again. I have nothing to say so I'll just attack the poster.

Doesnt work. Try harder. You just come across as ignorant and agressive.

Back me up "lads".

ShamoBuc

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

More nonsense.

We made two changes at half time and turned a five point loss into a large lead changing our tactics.

Plenty of teams have won with 14 men including us against Armagh.

Once again a simplistic lazy analysis.

Not accepting that playing 14 for the entire second half played a major part is the definition of A simplistic lazy analysis.

Not accepting the Fact regarding the kickouts -as pointed out by Several other posters - is as you would say Childish.


"The last vestage of someone who has no points to make is to attack the poster.

There are a LOT of posters here with no points to make other than ignorant attacks.

They are not supporters. They are the opposite. They are non supporters.

So let them stay at home and whine."

-My God but some of your comments are over the top ridiculous.

Non supporters....stay at home and whine...... bit of an ' ignorant attack' alright.:rolleyes:

Mr. Incognito

The simple answer is play your strongest team from the start, starting Donaghy and Young is not your strongest team as was evidenced by the introduction of James and Kev Mac who added pace to the team.

So you are saying go forward in time. Discover your best team and start them.

Brilliant. All we need for the next Kerry Manager is a time machine.

OR you could start what you think is your strongest team and ADAPT.

The fact that those changes worked show that this was a great move from managment yet you want to make it out to a negative

Mr. Incognito

-My God but some of your comments are over the top ridiculous.

Thank you for attacking the poster and contributing zero analysis. Next.

EDIT

My apolgies- you made a football point.

Not accepting that playing 14 for the entire second half played a major part

It did not. I dont know of any other senior intercounty game where a man being sent off resulted in a what 17 point swing?

Do you think that's solely down to a man being sent off? Do you really believe that?

dobman88

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So you are saying go forward in time. Discover your best team and start them.

Brilliant. All we need for the next Kerry Manager is a time machine.

OR you could start what you think is your strongest team and ADAPT.

The fact that those changes worked show that this was a great move from managment yet you want to make it out to a negative

Jaysus. What a strange statement. Every man and his dog was wondering why Donaghy and Young started. Donaghy was totally ineffective against Monaghan, Young got cleaned out against Galway and ended up getting cleaned out by kildare. There shouldn't be a need to adapt. At the quarter final stage, in your 3rd game of that stage, you should know your best starting team.

Making those changes wasn't some kind of tactical masterclass by EF.

None of this is an attack of Donaghy, young or Eamonn, like I said none of them owe Kerry anything but everybody's time comes and people need to make way for new lads coming through.

ShamoBuc

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Thank you for attacking the poster and contributing zero analysis. Next.

EDIT

My apolgies- you made a football point.



It did not. I dont know of any other senior intercounty game where a man being sent off resulted in a what 17 point swing?

Do you think that's solely down to a man being sent off? Do you really believe that?

Attacking the poster??? What are you on about?? You keep saying that like a defacto defence! I said YOUR COMMENTS ARE RIDUCULOUS - COMMENTS.....COMMENTS.

Seriously fella, you appear to be so defensive and not able to read comments for what they are.

I never said playing 14 was Solely the reason! I said not accepting the Fact they were playing 14 played a big part of it - like what you did - is clearly head in the cloud stuff. Changing the tactics would certainly have been based on playing 14, do you not see that?
Do you really believe that????

Mr. Incognito

dobman88 wrote: »

Jaysus. What a strange statement. Every man and his dog was wondering why Donaghy and Young started. Donaghy was totally ineffective against Monaghan, Young got cleaned out against Galway and ended up getting cleaned out by kildare. There shouldn't be a need to adapt. At the quarter final stage, in your 3rd game of that stage, you should know your best starting team.

Making those changes wasn't some kind of tactical masterclass by EF.

None of this is an attack of Donaghy, young or Eamonn, like I said none of them owe Kerry anything but everybody's time comes and people need to make way for new lads coming through.

Kerry needed a good start. We were down on points difference.

He put Donaghy in and lumped in High Ball for the first ten minutes.

It didnt work.

Young got cleaned out. It didnt work.

Management recognised this and changed it.

There is no "perfect" team or game. EF has changed tactics before.

Sometimes it works, such as 2014 when Donaghy pulled us out of the fire against May in Croke Park. He was fantastic against Monaghan and deserved his start against Kildare. He tracked back and won a fantastic turn over ball in midfield. He also protected Clifford who was getting man handled in the first half.

Sometimes it does not.

That's football and that's life. Donaghy should have started, did start and was a positive contributor to Kerry in the first half. If he retires I'll be sad to see an amazing servant for Kerry go.

Killian Young got cleaned out against a top class forward but made some excellent interceptions and carried the ball out a number of times.

The sideline adapted and adapted well. It has been a big failing for Kerry in the past.

The negativity around his departure is full of delusional nonsense.

We may regret it.

When I make these points I am villified. Anyone that wants to talk football I'll talk football.

Anyone that wants to attack me. Feel free. If that's the argument you have then its no argument.