Kerry GAA discussion thread #2

jimmytwotimes 2013

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I can understand Keane because there was a queue of promising inside forwards behind him.

I don’t think there are that many specialist corner backs of Shanahans ability around though. A lot of people are puzzled by that one, could he be injured or unavailable for some reason?

Fully understand Keane not getting a call but Shanahan is surely a temporary thing. He might not be fit or have other commitments right now.

Rows Grower

I heard yesterday that the lads who were dropped only found out after speaking to other players who had gotten a text to say turn up for training.

Bad form from management if true, considering the commitment they gave over the previous years a personal phone call is surely not too much to ask.

Amprodude

kerrysoul wrote: »

While not condoning what Kevin McCarthy did, he is a young man and he make a mistake with his alcohol consumption. Hopefully he will learn from his experience and go on and have a successful career with Kerry.

it was a big mistake. I for one hope he never lines out for Kerry after that conduct. if he wasn't a high profile GAA player he would get jail. The law make a makes me sick in this country. He ahouldnt be representing any team after that.

Kerrydude1981

So the Crokes are entering a third team into the county football league next year

Amprodude

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

So the Crokes are entering a third team into the county football league next year

they can when everyone im killarney wants to play for them.

keane2097

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

So the Crokes are entering a third team into the county football league next year

This seems problematic.

kerry37

keane2097 wrote: »

This seems problematic.

In what way? I'd imagine it's to try and improve their own players by playing against A teams instead of playing the junior leagues. Don't see a problem with it myself but haven't given it much thought yet tbh.

keane2097

kerry37 wrote: »

In what way? I'd imagine it's to try and improve their own players by playing against A teams instead of playing the junior leagues. Don't see a problem with it myself but haven't given it much thought yet tbh.

Just seems to facilitate a stockpiling of huge numbers of adult players by one club, which might not be a good thing.

Should we worry in any way at all about how big a single club can grow? Would it potentially be better if there was a more normal number of players spread around a bigger number of clubs?

They are questions worth thinking about I guess. You don't have to travel too far from Killarney to find clubs withering away to nothing.

kerry37

keane2097 wrote: »

Just seems to facilitate a stockpiling of huge numbers of adult players by one club, which might not be a good thing.

Should we worry in any way at all about how big a single club can grow? Would it potentially be better if there was a more normal number of players spread around a bigger number of clubs?

They are questions worth thinking about I guess. You don't have to travel too far from Killarney to find clubs withering away to nothing.

If the players are from killarney I don't see why they would want to play for another club outside the town.

What I do think should be stopped is what happened with Shane Murphy, players shouldn't be allowed to switch like that.

I don't think you'd get many players saying they'd play for Fossa, Gneeveguilla, Spa, Glenflesk, Scart, Firies etc if they're from killarney and want to play for crokes

Bass Reeves

keane2097 wrote: »

Just seems to facilitate a stockpiling of huge numbers of adult players by one club, which might not be a good thing.

Should we worry in any way at all about how big a single club can grow? Would it potentially be better if there was a more normal number of players spread around a bigger number of clubs?

They are questions worth thinking about I guess. You don't have to travel too far from Killarney to find clubs withering away to nothing.

Limerick city is a prime example. Only two senior hurling clubs in the whole city. Na Piarsiagh and Monaleen( which is on the outskirts of the city). After that you have one Premier Intermediate club on the outskirts of the city in Mungret. Claughan is relegated from Intermediate and St Patricks are intermediate and is only up from junior. This is a city with a population of 200K.

The reason is that there is no parish rule in Cities and Towns any longer. The long term issue is that you may have a situation where you lose players that do not grow between the ages of 14-16 as they fail to make club underage teams. Every parent thinks there Johnny will play for professional Soccer Rugby or for the County Football or hurling team. I see at club level how hard it is to bring players through and lots of lads that are very good at 14-16 years of age because they have grown fail to make the grade 3-4 years later.

Poor_old_gill

Start up another club in Killarney- like was done with Na Gael in Tralee

davegilly

Are Legion not in Killarney?

kerry37

davegilly wrote: »

Are Legion not in Killarney?

They are. Wouldn't have the same draw as crokes due to recent success

deisedude

Amprodude wrote: »

it was a big mistake. I for one hope he never lines out for Kerry after that conduct. if he wasn't a high profile GAA player he would get jail. The law make a makes me sick in this country. He ahouldnt be representing any team after that.

Was at the match today and he got a huge cheer when they named the team and a standing ovation when he was substituted towards the end of the game

Sickening

jimmytwotimes 2013

Rows Grower wrote: »

I heard yesterday that the lads who were dropped only found out after speaking to other players who had gotten a text to say turn up for training.

Bad form from management if true, considering the commitment they gave over the previous years a personal phone call is surely not too much to ask.

You get a call if you're needed, you don't if you're not. Don't really have problem with that, they can't be that sensitive and every player knows you only get the jersey if you deserve it.

Rows Grower

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

You get a call if you're needed, you don't if you're not. Don't really have problem with that, they can't be that sensitive and every player knows you only get the jersey if you deserve it.

You may not have a problem with it and that's fine.

Personally I think the players deserve a bit more respect.

Poor_old_gill

davegilly wrote: »

Are Legion not in Killarney?

There are 4 clubs in Tralee- compared to 2 in Killarney. They could easily fit in another one

Bass Reeves

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

davegilly wrote: »

Are Legion not in Killarney?

There are 4 clubs in Tralee- compared to 2 in Killarney. They could easily fit in another one

It is not really about fitting another one in. Another club would suffer from the same issues as legion. It is the issue about successful clubs having too much of a draw on underage players

The_Honeybadger

Spa are also in Killarney

Boom__Boom

keane2097 wrote: »

Just seems to facilitate a stockpiling of huge numbers of adult players by one club, which might not be a good thing.

Should we worry in any way at all about how big a single club can grow? Would it potentially be better if there was a more normal number of players spread around a bigger number of clubs?

They are questions worth thinking about I guess. You don't have to travel too far from Killarney to find clubs withering away to nothing.

I don't think this is remotely any sort of a serious issue.

There is no evidence whatsoever this is going on with Crokes. Any of the lads lining out from the Crokes C team are going to be lads who came up from underage who want to continue playing a bit of ball.

The other clubs in and around Killarney (Legion, Spa and Fossa ) are all probably as close to being as strong as they have even been in living memory. Both Spa and Legion have Junior / B teams which I don't think would be the case if Crokes were "stockpiling" players.

Beyond that clubs in the Killarney's direct hinterland are also in a very strong state of health - Kilcummin won their first Munster final yesterday, Beaufort are in the Munster final next week. Most of the East Kerry teams are in very good, if not excellent shape. If Crokes were stockpiling players/hoovering up all the best players it would be very evident at underage and while Crokes are a strong performer at underage, it's clear that they definitely aren't an unbeatable unstoppable behemoth.

The issue of clubs withering away has nothing to do with Crokes managing to retain players from underage and instead is related to rural depopulation.

Basically Killarney and it's hinterlands are benefitting from the worldwide trend of urbanisation, while more remote rural areas like South Kerry are being depopulated.

Bass Reeves

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I don't think this is remotely any sort of a serious issue.

There is no evidence whatsoever this is going on with Crokes. Any of the lads lining out from the Crokes C team are going to be lads who came up from underage who want to continue playing a bit of ball.

The other clubs in and around Killarney (Legion, Spa and Fossa ) are all probably as close to being as strong as they have even been in living memory. Both Spa and Legion have Junior / B teams which I don't think would be the case if Crokes were "stockpiling" players.

Beyond that clubs in the Killarney's direct hinterland are also in a very strong state of health - Kilcummin won their first Munster final yesterday, Beaufort are in the Munster final next week. Most of the East Kerry teams are in very good, if not excellent shape. If Crokes were stockpiling players/hoovering up all the best players it would be very evident at underage and while Crokes are a strong performer at underage, it's clear that they definitely aren't an unbeatable unstoppable behemoth.

The issue of clubs withering away has nothing to do with Crokes managing to retain players from underage and instead is related to rural depopulation.

Basically Killarney and it's hinterlands are benefitting from the worldwide trend of urbanisation, while more remote rural areas like South Kerry are being depopulated.

It is not about stockpiling players as much as losing players or failing to develop players. Anyone that has ever coached under age will have seen players that are virtually fully grown at 14/15 and players that do not fully grow until 16-18. In a club like Crokes these those later developing players unless they were tall/strong for there age before 14 may well get lost to the system. Believe these are often the better players long term at club level ( they are often not picked up at County level) as they develop the skill to play against physically stronger players if they get game time between 14-16 years of age but in a big club they may well not get that game time and give up playing

kerrysoul

I for one am delighted that he got a good round of applause yesterday. He is a young man and he made a big mistake, but who hasn't. Give the lad a second chance and judge him from now on rather that what he did in the past.

Boom__Boom

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is not about stockpiling players as much as losing players or failing to develop players. Anyone that has ever coached under age will have seen players that are virtually fully grown at 14/15 and players that do not fully grow until 16-18. In a club like Crokes these those later developing players unless they were tall/strong for there age before 14 may well get lost to the system. Believe these are often the better players long term at club level ( they are often not picked up at County level) as they develop the skill to play against physically stronger players if they get game time between 14-16 years of age but in a big club they may well not get that game time and give up playing

I would seriously doubt there's any chance whatsoever this would happen in Crokes, with Pat O'Shea overseeing the coaching and given their record of developing and bringing through players especially slighter lads. If there's one club in country I would be confident of smaller slighter skillful players not being overlooked its Crokes.

Also in terms of losing players, the reason Crokes are entering a third team in the league is because they are doing such a good job of retaining players who they successfully developed through their underage system.

Poor_old_gill

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Spa are also in Killarney

Spa are in Killarney as much as Churchill, st Pats and ballymac are in tralee. They border the town but aren’t in it

Poor_old_gill

kerrysoul wrote: »

I for one am delighted that he got a good round of applause yesterday. He is a young man and he made a big mistake, but who hasn't. Give the lad a second chance and judge him from now on rather that what he did in the past.

Everyone is judged on what they have done in the past- that’s just human nature.

I do agree with you that the lad should be allowed to earn a second chance (more so than be given one)- he may need to be a bit more sensible on the booze tho as he’s not 17/18 and the excuse of being a young fella doesn’t really wash when you’re in your 20s

Boom__Boom

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Spa are in Killarney as much as Churchill, st Pats and ballymac are in tralee. They border the town but aren’t in it

For Gaa purposes in terms of recruiting they are part of Killarney town. As are Fossa.
Which means that there are 4 GAA clubs in Killarney town.

I had a scary thought during the day - imagine Crokes were the only club in the parish of Killarney i.e in addition to their own lads, they could also select from the Legion, Spa and Fossa panels. They would have an insane starting 15, plus beyond that the squad depth would just be ludicrous.

Bass Reeves

Boom__Boom wrote: »

For Gaa purposes in terms of recruiting they are part of Killarney town. As are Fossa.
Which means that there are 4 GAA clubs in Killarney town.

I had a scary thought during the day - imagine Crokes were the only club in the parish of Killarney i.e in addition to their own lads, they could also select from the Legion, Spa and Fossa panels. They would have an insane starting 15, plus beyond that the squad depth would just be ludicrous.

It wouldn't at the end of the time most clubs can only enter, manage and pay for so many teams. The real problem happens underage in that again you are limited in the number of teams you enter into any age group. i am unfamilar with the Kerry underage structure. But young lads will not stand around being No 21 and 22 on an underage panel. They either give up playing or go play soccer.

Poor_old_gill

Boom__Boom wrote: »

For Gaa purposes in terms of recruiting they are part of Killarney town. As are Fossa.
Which means that there are 4 GAA clubs in Killarney town.

I had a scary thought during the day - imagine Crokes were the only club in the parish of Killarney i.e in addition to their own lads, they could also select from the Legion, Spa and Fossa panels. They would have an insane starting 15, plus beyond that the squad depth would just be ludicrous.

They aren’t though and neither are Fossa, realistically.

D'Agger

Boom__Boom wrote: »

For Gaa purposes in terms of recruiting they are part of Killarney town. As are Fossa.
Which means that there are 4 GAA clubs in Killarney town.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

They aren’t though and neither are Fossa, realistically.

I'm from Killarney & played for Spa. Was I born and bred in the centre of the town? No, but Spa and Fossa would be considered Killarney teams...realistically.

Poor_old_gill

D'Agger wrote: »

I'm from Killarney & played for Spa. Was I born and bred in the centre of the town? No, but Spa and Fossa would be considered Killarney teams...realistically.

But they aren’t Killarney town teams. Fossa are from Fossa, which isn’t in Killarney town- it’s, well, Fossa.

There is a need for another team in Killarney town itself- as I said previously Tralee has 4 while Killarney only has 2.

If you want to start counting Fossa, etc then you need to factor Pats, Churchill, ballymac and maybe even Ardfert into Tralee