Cycling Ireland AGM 2017

ednwireland

11th of November in the Canal Park Hotel, Newry.

several motions already
http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/about/agm

anyone who complains about CI heres your opportunity

JK.BMC

And not a single motion about A4 racing and all that jazz? After all the talk, much of it quite relevant and borne out of genuine concern?
As suggested in the advance notice, such issues should go through the relevant commission. Since the road commission apparently has no specific motion on the A4 issue of any sort put forward, we can conclude that all is rosy on the A4 road race front?
It can be daunting to try disrupt the status quo; maybe there is too much negative emphasis on crashes in A4 racing but in all fairness, buying a bike, turning up to race without ANY sort of prior skill assessment does seem quite wrong. And fields of 130+ A4s also seem wrong. But that's just my opinion. Motions must come via clubs etc
As for the other chestnut about 'juniors' I think the position of the national junior coaches should trump any individual view put forward; at the end of the day, these guys are still kids. It will be an interesting debate.

ht9zni1gs28crp

Rumors abound in Ulster of a formation of an A5 group, a reduction of the 15 points in A4 and a separate category for the Juniors in A3.

What truth is in this I dont know, simply overheard during Autumn Gold Race. The guy seemed pretty adamant.

Beasty

This is your last chance.....

....get your cheap XMas shopping in before the sterling prices catch up.

Gekko1

So, who would go into A5 category? Those who will be new to racing 2018/19 season??

daragh_

Some useful proposals from the Road Commission around A4 and entering the sport. My italics and underlines.

To Chapter T3.2
Competitive newcomers to the sport will be granted a Limited Competition Licence and may only be granted an A4 licence the year following. Holders of an A4 licence may only compete with other A4 licence holders with the exception of handicap races and the National Masters Road Race Championships. Notwithstanding in events restricted to Juniors, Masters or Women, A4 licence holders may compete with other category riders. Those returning to the sport after an absence will normally be granted an A3 licence, however this may be reviewed following an application to the National Grading Officer.
Chapter T7.1 (20) After maximum include the following “/ minimum” and for A4 Riders replace 120kms with 70 kms minimum and 120 kms maximum.
Chapter T5.1 (11) Add an additional sentence. Any event limited to A4 riders may only accept a maximum of 110 riders.

JK.BMC

daragh_ wrote: »

Some useful proposals from the Road Commission around A4 and entering the sport. My italics and underlines.

To Chapter T3.2
Competitive newcomers to the sport will be granted a Limited Competition Licence and may only be granted an A4 licence the year following. Holders of an A4 licence may only compete with other A4 licence holders with the exception of handicap races and the National Masters Road Race Championships. Notwithstanding in events restricted to Juniors, Masters or Women, A4 licence holders may compete with other category riders. Those returning to the sport after an absence will normally be granted an A3 licence, however this may be reviewed following an application to the National Grading Officer.
Chapter T7.1 (20) After maximum include the following “/ minimum” and for A4 Riders replace 120kms with 70 kms minimum and 120 kms maximum.
Chapter T5.1 (11) Add an additional sentence. Any event limited to A4 riders may only accept a maximum of 110 riders.

I hadn't seen any of this - to be honest it is good to see some pro-active suggestions. Making a race "minimum" distance is very interesting. I know of some A3 races that are less that 70km as it is! Mick Lally/Newbridge GP come to mind in Leinster as it is. 5 laps of the Dunmurray Circuit for A4s in Newbridge will be utterly different to what has gone before.

daragh_

JK.BMC wrote: »

5 laps of the Dunmurray Circuit for A4s in Newbridge will be utterly different to what has gone before.

True - hard to imagine a massive bunch gallop after that.:D

If I'm interpreting this correctly - there is no mention of an 'A5' category, just that racers new to competition have to take out a Club Comp licence in their first year? Encouraging them to learn race skills in a Club or Inter-Club League environment?

I think this is a good idea and it's been floated here a lot. The issues that I can see are pressures on the existing Club Leagues.

Beasty

While I understand the desire of many to get their points across at the AGM, many of these matters really should be reserved for the Road Commission to implement themselves with oversight from the Board. they are not "company business" and certainly not "decisions" to be made at an AGM

On the specifics of a new category, that may be a possible solution to some of the issues, but it also potentially results in more groups on the same potentially short circuit. The alternative may be to stagger races or spread them about a bit more, but that requires more clubs/volunteers to step up to the plate

Weepsie

Not in a club so can't suggest a motion, but is Anyone making a motion to prevent a club one side of the country protesting about a race running nowhere bear them such as happened in Connacht this year?

ht9zni1gs28crp

Gekko1 wrote: »

So, who would go into A5 category? Those who will be new to racing 2018/19 season??

It was mentioned as follows

Anyone in A4 with 11 points plus gets moved up into A3

Anyone in A4 with 1 - 10 points remain in A4

Anyone in A4 with zero points now form A5


God knows its a creative rumour :D

daragh_

Chance Whispering Stepmother wrote: »

It was mentioned as follows

Anyone in A4 with 11 points plus gets moved up into A3
Anyone in A4 with 1 - 10 points remain in A4
Anyone in A4 with zero points now form A5

God knows its a creative rumour :D

If that's the case then it puts the onus on Clubs to promote new A5 races on top of what they already do. That's a can of worms.

I think the idea of limiting new racers to club leagues for a year is more practical. Although it will put pressure on Clubs that run leagues.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Chips Lovell

There's no motion proposing an A5 category though? Just one saying that newcomers must hold an Limited Competition licence for a year before taking out on A4 licence.

lukegjpotter

Road Commission motions change A4 upgrade from 15 to 13 points.
And also jiggle up the National Championships.

Good changes.

I'd imagine the Limited Competition for new riders will be open to exceptions, where a club can say this is a good rider. Providing proof from a club league.
Are there clubs without a club league to blood riders?

Good proposal by the Off-Road Commission on 6 female riders for a Senior Championship Event.
Good one by Saddle Rock, asking for the Friday races.

Chips Lovell

The A4 rule change could potentially kill a few birds:

• Discourage unattached riders (at beginner level at least)
• Encourage more clubs to run their own club leagues

JK.BMC

Beasty wrote: »

While I understand the desire of many to get their points across at the AGM, many of these matters really should be reserved for the Road Commission to implement themselves with oversight from the Board. they are not "company business" and certainly not "decisions" to be made at an AGM

On the specifics of a new category, that may be a possible solution to some of the issues, but it also potentially results in more groups on the same potentially short circuit. The alternative may be to stagger races or spread them about a bit more, but that requires more clubs/volunteers to step up to the plate

If I'm not mistaken, you have made the above points about 'company business' numerous times over the years and I see where you are coming from. But surely you must know by now that the Cycling Ireland AGM is not simply a 'business meeting' but a forum where significant sporting issues are thrashed out and changes to the regulations of the sport are proposed, passed or rejected. You may be technically correct but in practice this is how the cycling world operates; any club with a suggestion for change gets to air their view at a national forum, however crude that may sound to you or ne. And when we are regularly encouraged to 'make proposals' and put forward ideas, well isn't that what is happening? Some delegates just turn up to see who causes a row each year- it's a very Irish sort of 'point-of-order-mister-chairman' shouting festival sometimes at meetings like these but maybe it's not the worst way to do things

Beasty

They can have a "sporting" discussion outside the AGM. But that's also where power is delegated to Provinces and Commissions. The organisation should not be bound by such resolutions which are decided by who turns up on the day and indeed who gets their point across best (or even who shouts loudest although I really should not single out Gaybo like that!)

Sporting discussion can certainly influence those other bodies but in my view the decisions should be left to those who have committed time and effort be it at Board, Province of Commission level. And if people don't like decisions those bodies take they can always stand to get in the relevant body to try and push their own (of perhaps their club's) agenda.

Swim Ireland have a separate discussion of such matters. The IVCA have also moved to this model. It can take place at the same location on the same date but AGMs are a statutory obligation that should be dealing with "company" business. That's no different from any other limited company.

CramCycle

daragh_ wrote: »

If that's the case then it puts the onus on Clubs to promote new A5 races on top of what they already do. That's a can of worms.

I think the idea of limiting new racers to club leagues for a year is more practical. Although it will put pressure on Clubs that run leagues.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You might see some of the more successful club leagues close ranks to stop it swelling too quickly, although I can see midweek races under the guise of club leagues popping up. Hopefully they can communicate well with other clubs who have been running races for years.

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

The A4 rule change could potentially kill a few birds:

• Discourage unattached riders (at beginner level at least)
• Encourage more clubs to run their own club leagues

Positives but as many who run club leagues know, keeping locals onside is very important , hopefully it won't lead to swelling of numbers in already crowded areas.

Beasty wrote: »

They can have a "sporting" discussion outside the AGM. But that's also where power is delegated to Provinces and Commissions. The organisation should not be bound by such resolutions which are decided by who turns up on the day and indeed who gets their point across best (or even who shouts loudest although I really should not single out Gaybo like that!)

Sporting discussion can certainly influence those other bodies but in my view the decisions should be left to those who have committed time and effort be it at Board, Province of Commission level. And if people don't like decisions those bodies take they can always stand to get in the relevant body to try and push their own (of perhaps their club's) agenda.

Swim Ireland have a separate discussion of such matters. The IVCA have also moved to this model. It can take place at the same location on the same date but AGMs are a statutory obligation that should be dealing with "company" business. That's no different from any other limited company.

Surely the road commission should be looking to host an AGM/meeting, and the CI AGM should shunt all of those proposals there.

lukegjpotter

CramCycle wrote: »

I can see midweek races under the guise of club leagues popping up. Hopefully they can communicate well with other clubs who have been running races for years.

There won't be any new leagues, once people see the organisation and co-ordination required to run one. There's only a certain number of ambulances available.

Currently there's:
Monday: free or Bank Holiday Stage Race stage
Tuesday: Mondello Series, IVCA Race, Women's Commission Series
Wednesday: free
Thursday: Traditional Club League Night
Friday: free or Three Day Opening Stage
Saturday: Open Race, IVCA Race
Sunday: Open Race


Regarding the "Road Commission Business", they perhaps see the CI AGM as a way to wrap it all into one. The CI AGM happens after the road season, Road Commission want their AGM after their season.
To make two separate events of it, would require interested parties to travel two weekends. With other commitments (family, work, off-season pizza and beer appointments), this is unrealistic.

Take for example, the Off-Road Commission AGM happens after the CX Nationals, presumably MTB is over for the winter at this stage. So in-effect it is the end of their season.

The solution would be to handle all the CI board motions before an intermission for Road Commission motions.

buffalo

lukegjpotter wrote: »

Currently there's:
Monday: free or Bank Holiday Stage Race stage
Tuesday: Mondello Series, IVCA Race, Women's Commission Series
Wednesday: free
Thursday: Traditional Club League Night
Friday: free or Three Day Opening Stage
Saturday: Open Race, IVCA Race
Sunday: Open Race

McNally Swords run their league on a Wednesday, as did Dublin Wheelers until this year.

Beasty

And Drogheda Wheelers run theirs on Mondays

Club Leagues are restricted to Monday to Thursday anyway. I have been suggesting for some time that they should be allowed to run at the weekend, particularly during February and March (when light conditions make midweek racing impossible). That in itself takes some of the pressure of the often overcrowded early season A3/A4 races and gives newbies the opportunity to try out Club League ahead/instead of Open Racing

The other issue remains the overcrowding of roads particularly across County Dublin and its surrounds, resulting in a higher chance of complaints and Gardaí attention. Hence I do think there is a significant co-ordination issue and opportunity particularly around some of the areas that are used quite regularly. The IVCA have been trying to move a little further afield and as the roads get busier we may see increasing pressure to have more consideration of other traffic (as well as safety issues resulting from busier roads)

morana

the idea of a separate sporting agm on the same day is a good one but alas i cant see this board going for anything like that. The board itself is bogged down in detail rather than operating at the strategic level.......

Beasty

Well the current President was promising new sponsors and dealing with the Fingal racing issue. All I've seen so far, certainly at a "strategic" level, is An Post and Skoda pulling out with no signs of any replacement. Yes there are a few smaller sponsors now onboard, but it is an area he claimed to be his specialism. Having said that I was saying at the time that I really could not see any high profile sponsors out there who would be prepared to pump significant amounts into Irish cycling, and equally that I did not think he could pull the strings he thought he could to get Open racing back in North County Dublin

No obvious progress on the Velodrome either, although I'm hoping some funding will be secured in the forthcoming Budget.

Michelin

Beasty wrote: »

Well the current President was promising new sponsors and dealing with the Fingal racing issue. All I've seen so far, certainly at a "strategic" level, is An Post and Skoda pulling out with no signs of any replacement. Yes there are a few smaller sponsors now onboard, but it is an area he claimed to be his specialism. Having said that I was saying at the time that I really could not see any high profile sponsors out there who would be prepared to pump significant amounts into Irish cycling, and equally that I did not think he could pull the strings he thought he could to get Open racing back in North County Dublin

No obvious progress on the Velodrome either, although I'm hoping some funding will be secured in the forthcoming Budget.

So he hasn't delivered on his manifesto after two years?

Beasty

Michelin wrote: »

So he hasn't delivered on his manifesto after two years?

I've not seen anything in those 2 areas. Of course there may be something in the background I'm not aware of. Maybe he's heading to a meeting with AGS in Balbriggan, and perhaps he's lined up Facebook as title sponsors to the Ras and Ras na mBan. Guess he'll have a chance to detail his achievements at the AGM as Carl Fullerton's name is down as standing against him for President.

As I indicated though, I was sceptical all along in both these areas, but he won the vote and deserved the chance to try and deliver

Michelin

Beasty wrote: »

I've not seen anything in those 2 areas. Of course there may be something in the background I'm not aware of. Maybe he's heading to a meeting with AGS in Balbriggan, and perhaps he's lined up Facebook as title sponsors to the Ras and Ras na mBan. Guess he'll have a chance to detail his achievements at the AGM as Carl Fullerton's name is down as standing against him for President.

As I indicated though, I was sceptical all along in both these areas, but he won the vote and deserved the chance to try and deliver

Sorry not been sarcastic just a genuine question . As I have not seen anything either of any real significance. I do remember a lot of promises also and criticism of the CI office with relation to lack of phone answering at the time. I remember thinking that was very harsh. Political power is very motivating for some. Maybe someone else can come up with something of significance to justify his tenure.

Beasty

I said all along I thought his focus was on male road racing and I've seen absolutely nothing since his election to suggest otherwise

He did raise a fuss about people not being there to answer the phone, but I've never had an issue contacting CI via e-mail - they usually get back to me within a few hours and that's a much more efficient use of their limited resources

I do think there has been progress in resurrecting the Road Commission, but the likes of the Women's and Track Commissions are largely left to their own devices. Hopefully now there is a new woman on the Board the profile of the women's side of things will rise, but equally I don't think Ciaran will do anything in these areas without pressure being applied

Unfortunately the AGMs are typically dominated by people who are heavily into the male road racing scene, meaning there is often a disproportionate emphasis on this side of things. It would be better, in my view, if a few more from the leisure side and other disciplines turned up and had their say (I know some do turn up but they are typically very much in the minority). I am often met with the argument that because these other areas don't shout as loud as some of the roadies they must be happy with their lot - Even though I am from the male racing side of things I certainly do not think the other areas get anything like the attention and support they deserve.

ednwireland

Didn't he justify the club competition license increase last year by saying that they could race loads more on that than an open license oh and they had expensive bikes (same argument he used against leisure cyclists).
He seems a very one dimensional character and after 2 years I'm still not sure what he actually stands for.

Michelin

ednwireland wrote: »

Didn't he justify the club competition license increase last year by saying that they could race loads more on that than an open license oh and they had expensive bikes (same argument he used against leisure cyclists).
He seems a very one dimensional character and after 2 years I'm still not sure what he actually stands for.

Time for change then

Beasty

Well that 's what was said 2 years ago. I think the prior President did move a number of things forward, alas not to the satisfaction of the roadies. From what I've seen I'm not convinced the current challenger will be any better. Having said that at least there is going to be an election which itself forces the candidates to put forward their respective manifestos.

morana

who is going for it?