Cycling Ireland AGM 2017

Inquitus

morana wrote: »

who is going for it?

Carl Fullerton: nominated for the position of Honorary President by Saddle Rock CC

buffalo

Inquitus wrote: »

Carl Fullerton: nominated for the position of Honorary President by Saddle Rock CC

Was he the man who resigned from a position or a nomination before the AGM had properly started about two (maybe three) years ago?

morana

buffalo wrote: »

Was he the man who resigned from a position or a nomination before the AGM had properly started about two (maybe three) years ago?

yes he was running but withdrew before the vote i remember. I think he ran when me and orla were elected as well. I am sure he was elected 2 years ago.

JAck watsons time is up. he has to step down for 2 yrs after umpteen consecutive terms. however the 3 term rule only came in 3 terms ago.

CramCycle

lukegjpotter wrote: »

There won't be any new leagues, once people see the organisation and co-ordination required to run one. There's only a certain number of ambulances available.

True but it might be a way around the impasse of novice/A5 races and entry into A4. I think I said it before but a novice league with promotion into A4 once you have been signed off as competent by someone with experience, much like the track pink slip system would be reasonable. Might not even need a league, just an observer at the likes of Mondello and the various club leagues. Even something from a club sec saying Cyclist A has been out on several club/group rides and is competent in a group. Not saying they won't cause issues, just that, in theory, they know the bare minimum. Whether they bring that knowledge onto the road is another thing but that is the same in every cat.

Regarding the "Road Commission Business", they perhaps see the CI AGM as a way to wrap it all into one. The CI AGM happens after the road season, Road Commission want their AGM after their season.
To make two separate events of it, would require interested parties to travel two weekends. With other commitments (family, work, off-season pizza and beer appointments), this is unrealistic.

Having them as two separate event on the same day is one workaround. The road stuff takes up a huge chunk of time at the AGM and is the only reason many go. Other clubs who are not road orientated do not attend as heavily because their commission don't operate this way. Regrettably this means that many see CI as a functional insurer for them but not as a support, and it is all about the roadies.

Separating it out may alleviate this to some extent. The only reason you would need them on the same day is to insure quorum at the AGM.

The solution would be to handle all the CI board motions before an intermission for Road Commission motions.

Just have the CI AGM in the morning, without the road motions, it would be wrapped quite quick. And then the Road commision can start in the afternoon.

Beasty wrote: »

Club Leagues are restricted to Monday to Thursday anyway. I have been suggesting for some time that they should be allowed to run at the weekend, particularly during February and March (when light conditions make midweek racing impossible). That in itself takes some of the pressure of the often overcrowded early season A3/A4 races and gives newbies the opportunity to try out Club League ahead/instead of Open Racing

100% agree although it might be hard to organise with switching days of the week but it should be allowed, particularly before May if a club wants to do it.

The other issue remains the overcrowding of roads particularly across County Dublin and its surrounds, resulting in a higher chance of complaints and Gardattention. Hence I do think there is a significant co-ordination issue and opportunity particularly around some of the areas that are used quite regularly. The IVCA have been trying to move a little further afield and as the roads get busier we may see increasing pressure to have more consideration of other traffic (as well as safety issues resulting from busier roads)

Same here, but so far we are lucky and getting good engagement from locals and gardai. Moving routes away from busier roads, as well as moving further out (which means shorter races due to light at the beginning of the season).

morana wrote: »

the idea of a separate sporting agm on the same day is a good one but alas i cant see this board going for anything like that. The board itself is bogged down in detail rather than operating at the strategic level.......

It would seem to be the only sensible solution, maybe something to suggest this year for next year, if the very good volunteers in the road commission have no objection.

Michelin wrote: »

Sorry not been sarcastic just a genuine question . As I have not seen anything either of any real significance. I do remember a lot of promises also and criticism of the CI office with relation to lack of phone answering at the time. I remember thinking that was very harsh. Political power is very motivating for some. Maybe someone else can come up with something of significance to justify his tenure.

The phone call thing was stupid.

Beasty wrote: »

Well that 's what was said 2 years ago. I think the prior President did move a number of things forward, alas not to the satisfaction of the roadies. From what I've seen I'm not convinced the current challenger will be any better. Having said that at least there is going to be an election which itself forces the candidates to put forward their respective manifestos.

The benefit to the new challenger is like all Irish politicians, he can say what he wants, the current head of the table has the weight of what he has done to either lean on or get crushed under.

I would like to see someone who isn't pandering to small issues like parish pump politics.

Beasty

buffalo wrote: »

Was he the man who resigned from a position or a nomination before the AGM had properly started about two (maybe three) years ago?

Made a little bit of a scene as he was basically saying he could not work with the Board as it was then. Obviously now on the Board, but I'm not sure of his responsibilities. Looking here only the President's has been confirmed, and that seems to be he must be "Presidential":pac:

Inquitus

CramCycle wrote: »

True but it might be a way around the impasse of novice/A5 races and entry into A4. I think I said it before but a novice league with promotion into A4 once you have been signed off as competent by someone with experience, much like the track pink slip system would be reasonable. Might not even need a league, just an observer at the likes of Mondello and the various club leagues. Even something from a club sec saying Cyclist A has been out on several club/group rides and is competent in a group. Not saying they won't cause issues, just that, in theory, they know the bare minimum. Whether they bring that knowledge onto the road is another thing but that is the same in every cat.

Each province could organize some supervised A5 Starter races, very early in the year, in Leinster at say Corkagh Park. Give people some instruction for an hour and then have 4 or 5 30min +3 lap races, depending on numbers. After attending 2 successful sessions you get your pink slip similar to the track which allows you then to race open A4 races or whatever.

Lusk_Doyle

CramCycle wrote: »

I would like to see someone who isn't pandering to small issues like parish pump politics.

With the size and type of cycling society that we have here how would one attract meaningful support in any manner other than by making "parish pump" type promises? What larger or "global" cycling issues that the CI pres can influence are there that trump "small" issues?

buffalo

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

With the size and type of cycling society that we have here how would one attract meaningful support in any manner other than by making "parish pump" type promises? What larger or "global" cycling issues that the CI pres can influence are there that trump "small" issues?

I can no longer read that word in any context without a small bit of bile hitting the back of my throat.

morana

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

With the size and type of cycling society that we have here how would one attract meaningful support in any manner other than by making "parish pump" type promises? What larger or "global" cycling issues that the CI pres can influence are there that trump "small" issues?

i think and i will admit i am a bit out of touch, i just get the gossip, but surely to bring on the leisure side of the sport should be a major ambition of any president. Retention of those leisure members and i know they try to do that but lay out a strategy for your presidency , review it with the board and ceo after you are elected and re publish for the membership. And then i believe the key is to constantly update the membership about progress.

CramCycle

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

With the size and type of cycling society that we have here how would one attract meaningful support in any manner other than by making "parish pump" type promises? What larger or "global" cycling issues that the CI pres can influence are there that trump "small" issues?

But this is mainly why the road crowd get so much attention, because they are wrongly over represented at the AGM, because the other interests in cycling hold their own commission AGM and send a rep or two to pipe up if needs be. This is how the Road community should be represented as well. Have the Road AGM in the morning. Any issues that may be related to the company AGM can then be brought in under AOB. I understand what your saying but if there is a reasonable will to do away with it or if the board hand over such issues to the commission, it should be fine.

The board should be concerned with running the business, attracting new sponsors/investors, helping out the separate commisions (all of them), for money and organisation.

morana wrote: »

i think and i will admit i am a bit out of touch, i just get the gossip, but surely to bring on the leisure side of the sport should be a major ambition of any president. Retention of those leisure members and i know they try to do that but lay out a strategy for your presidency , review it with the board and ceo after you are elected and re publish for the membership. And then i believe the key is to constantly update the membership about progress.

Very good, a newsletter from the presidency every 3 months with updates would be a nice touch. Alot of big companies (and small) do that regularly enough.

The GMan

I really can't believe this proposal from CI

CI AGM 2017 Motion 6

To fix membership fees for 2018, Mr. Michael Mannix, Honorary Treasurer, will present
these. The following changes to the fees are proposed for 2018
- Youth U8, U10 from €5 / £4 to €10 / £10
- Youth U12, U14 from €10 / £10 to €20 / £20
- Limited Competition License changes from €70 / £60 to €80 / £70
- Family Membership from €75 / £64 to €85 / £74
- Leisure Membership in regions (10% reduction for perpetual 5 year recurring Direct Debit)
- Connacht, Leinster & Munster changes from €40 to €50 (includes €5 provincial levy)
- Ulster from €45 / £38 to €55 / €48 (includes €10/£8 provincial levy)
- Full Competition License changes from €125 / £106 to €135 / £116

RobFowl

The GMan wrote: »

I really can't believe this proposal from CI

CI AGM 2017 Motion 6

To fix membership fees for 2018, Mr. Michael Mannix, Honorary Treasurer, will present
these. The following changes to the fees are proposed for 2018
- Youth U8, U10 from €5 / £4 to €10 / £10
- Youth U12, U14 from €10 / £10 to €20 / £20
- Limited Competition License changes from €70 / £60 to €80 / £70
- Family Membership from €75 / £64 to €85 / £74
- Leisure Membership in regions (10% reduction for perpetual 5 year recurring Direct Debit)
- Connacht, Leinster & Munster changes from €40 to €50 (includes €5 provincial levy)
- Ulster from €45 / £38 to €55 / €48 (includes €10/£8 provincial levy)
- Full Competition License changes from €125 / £106 to €135 / £116

Whats the issue? They kept the prices down for a long time but costs including insurance are going up all the time

The GMan

The insurance cost as stated at last years AGM was €13 per head.
If this is passed leisure membership will have gone up 100% in four years from €25 in 2014 to €50 in 2018.
As far as I can see the services provided by Cycling Ireland have not changed dramatically and neither can the increase be justified by inflation.

RobFowl

The GMan wrote: »

The insurance cost as stated at last years AGM was €13 per head.
If this is passed leisure membership will have gone up 100% in four years from €25 in 2014 to €50 in 2018.
As far as I can see the services provided by Cycling Ireland have not changed dramatically and neither can the increase be justified by inflation.

The initial 25 was heavily subsidised.
CI provides a range of services, both insurance to members and event organisers. Discounts, advice. A network of clubs.
I race, tour, train, commutue and generally ponce about on bikes and am happy with the cost.
Compares very well to my wife's Tennis Ireland membership and far cheape than my 11yr olds football subs...

eeeee

RobFowl wrote: »

The initial 25 was heavily subsidised.
CI provides a range of services, both insurance to members and event organisers. Discounts, advice. A network of clubs.
I race, tour, train, commutue and generally ponce about on bikes and am happy with the cost.
Compares very well to my wife's Tennis Ireland membership and far cheape than my 11yr olds football subs...

I train, race and commute, and the cost of the full license is prohibitive for me if this goes through. I have yet to have it before March, it takes me that long to afford it.

It's a significant barrier to participation in the sport - I couldn't afford the cost of a full license during my first 3 years in the sport - I was lucky to avail of a very generous old student card expiry date, and even then took me a good while to afford.

They need a low income rate yesterday.

As a female racing cyclist, I have experienced first hand the apathy the current president of CI has for women's racing at an AGM this year.
Value for money it ain't for me.

cornet

Not a hope the increases will be passed at the AGM

wav1

cornet wrote: »

Not a hope the increases will be passed at the AGM

They will probably have to be or the [very much increased]insurance premium cant be paid..If its not then I'm sure there will have to be spending cuts.
At the end of the day its the delegates choice.

cornet

wav1 wrote: »

They will probably have to be or the [very much increased]insurance premium cant be paid..If its not then I'm sure there will have to be spending cuts.
At the end of the day its the delegates choice.

One of the main selling points of CI for leisure members is the insurance. If it’s not economically viable then don’t bother with it. Let everyone assume their own risk and take out their own insurance if they want it.

Beasty

The insurance only applies to sanctioned training. I suspect many leisure members don't appreciate that. The much larger insurance risks are likely to be 3rd party and from racing.

TBH although I have availed of the insurance pretty much up to the cap for medical expenses my PHI gives me better cover. I also get wider medical cover via the IVCA.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the AGM on these fee proposals. Racers need membership but leisure members are going to be a little more reticent.

I'll be at the track World Cup in Manchester so can't make it this year. Typically it's the racers that do turn up and I think these proposals will pass. If members do wish to protest they need to get their club to nominate them as a delegate.

wav1

cornet wrote: »

One of the main selling points of CI for leisure members is the insurance. If it’s not economically viable then don’t bother with it. Let everyone assume their own risk and take out their own insurance if they want it.

Whether you agree or disagree re licence costs that's a totally irresponsible suggestion..So let a National body take in someone as a member,and then let them off to cycle with no insurance if that's what they want.

cornet

wav1 wrote: »

Whether you agree or disagree re licence costs that's a totally irresponsible suggestion..So let a National body take in someone as a member,and then let them off to cycle with no insurance if that's what they want.

The insurance protects the rider not the federation. Clubs and the federation have separate insurance cover. What’s the problem with the riders taking out their own cover? If cost is a problem then remove the medical cover (riders can get VHI etc) and just leave the 3rd party liability cover.

CramCycle

The insurance protecting the federation and organisers would sky rocket, as the first accident from a rider, who waives his rights with some form at the start of an event, will be straight into court with a legal team and a clear spiel about it being sold as safe.

It also means a large volume of members will never join.

ednwireland

Leisure and club competition licenses are expensive enough if you only occasionally do events like myself ! Club. Competition license is hard to justify now.

CramCycle

Have the figures been released to justify the increases. The motion is too narrow minded and should be doing more to increase membership.

My suggestion would be that no matter the decision, the figures should be frozen for a defined number of years (3 or 5).

Any leisure member who does not break membership or who joins before December 31st, gets the old amount and continues to do so, so long as they do not lapse. I would also suggest a 20% discount for anyone who prepays for 5 years.

All riders U14 should not be charged more than 5euro.

As for the limited and full comp licences, I don't know, they are already pricey, maybe if a statement on the justification of increases, it could be discussed more in depth.

Weepsie

Anyone only doing a handful of sportives who is a member is better off not joining unless you use the few discounts.

Does a licence from another federation cover you here as there are a few (admittedly very few) I know who've had both at one stage

ragazzo

Weepsie wrote: »

Anyone only doing a handful of sportives who is a member is better off not joining unless you use the few discounts.

Does a licence from another federation cover you here as there are a few (admittedly very few) I know who've had both at one stage

It is not allowed to have a licence from more than one National Federation at the same time. UCI rules forbid such a scenario.
Perhaps one could have been a CI member and also a member of an association such as the IVCA. This option would not save money as one membership cost is similar to the other. For sole IVCA members, there would be added insurance costs for CI sportives as licences would not be mutually recognised.
A CI leisure licence is probably the only viable option if you wish to participate in a large number of sportives and train for same.
Not everyone would agree with that opinion though!

Beasty

It's racing licences that are limited in that way. You can have leisure "licences" in whichever jurisdictions you like (I have leisure membership of British Cycling, but only CI can issue my racing licence as I am resident in Ireland). I also have IVCA and LVRC (the UK equivalent) memberships but both these organisations operate outside the UCI

ragazzo

Beasty wrote: »

It's racing licences that are limited in that way. You can have leisure "licences" in whichever jurisdictions you like (I have leisure membership of British Cycling, but only CI can issue my racing licence as I am resident in Ireland). I also have IVCA and LVRC (the UK equivalent) memberships but both these organisations operate outside the UCI

Every day is a school day!ðŸ˜

uck51js9zml2yt

Beasty wrote: »

It's racing licences that are limited in that way. You can have leisure "licences" in whichever jurisdictions you like (I have leisure membership of British Cycling, but only CI can issue my racing licence as I am resident in Ireland). I also have IVCA and LVRC (the UK equivalent) memberships but both these organisations operate outside the UCI

What advantage is having a UK leisure license to you?...I'm curious:)

Beasty

Allison Billions Klutz wrote: »

What advantage is having a UK leisure license to you?...I'm curious:)

10% off CRC!!

Also gave me priority in applying for track World Championships last year and World Cup this year

Their insurance does not apply to non UK residents though (would if I lived in NI though)